The Faith/Nerissa thing...
So many people think Faith is glamoured as Nerissa. Others think Nerissa glamoured herself as Faith to help out Bigby and point him in the right direction. I agree with the latter. It just makes way more sense and the Faith being Nerissa the whole time doesn't make a salt-lick of sense. So my question to you guys is, if you think Faith was alive the whole time and is glamoured as Narissa, what's her motive? What is the point? Why did she do it? & Why didn't she tell Bigby she was alive?
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If Faith glamoured herself as Nerissa than where is Nerissa?
I was in the "Faith is glamoured as Nerissa" crowd until I saw the final statistics at the end of the game have "Deceased" over Faith's picture. This confirms that Nerissa had to of been Faith in the beginning of Episode 1.
I think she didn't explicitly tell Bigby she's alive because that's how she's been able to survive for so long, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't have her donkeyskin coat anymore, so continuing as Nerissa is the next best thing.
Faith was an enigma and when you think about it we really never knew her we just assumed we did and she took advantage of that lol
faith motives could have been anything but since she is known for telling half truths anyway would it really matter if she told us what her real motives were
whats important is that her actions lead to downfall a criminal organization and she made fable town a much better place
why she did it is entirety up to player to decide
I strongly believe they switch because real Nerissa feels responsible for what she has done proof about this - picture in the factory where they are arguing. Why would Nerissa need a glamour to attract Bigbys attention, Im pretty sure that even if he never met Faith he would investigate. The order of those pictures shows that Faith met Bigby before the murder.
Dead, it was Nerissa's head in episode 1 glamoured to be Faith.
Well Nerissa says that Fables are so easily forgotten so she could have been trying to make Bigby care enough to carry it through.
We know that Nerissa and Faith had a fight shortly before one of them died. I guess that's the moment when they somehow exchanged identities.
The Faith we see at EP 1 who says Bigby is not bad, seems to be the real one, since she uses the same phrases.
At that point I think Faith already knew she had messed up somehow, and that it was a matter of time before Georgie or Crooked Man found out she was trying to betray them.
Then it seems that sometime after that, Faith somehow convinces Nerissa to "trade" places with her. I assume that is happening in the photo where they're arguing. She probably asked her to cover for her or something, using the beating Woodie gave her as an excuse for being unable to work. Nerissa must have gotten upset for having to cover for her, but still agrees to go to cover for Faith and take her appearance to meet whatever client is next.
It makes sense that Faith could have asked for Nerissa to cover for her, didn't she do the same thing with Lilly, asking her to glamour as Snow and go see her other client , Crane? She probably just wanted to get them both out of the way for a moment.
They trade places, and fake Faith [real Nerissa] takes the bait and goes out to "cover" for the real Faith while taking her appearance. In the meantime, while fake Faith is out, the real Faith, now glamoured as Nerissa, rats her out to Georgie about their plan, pinning most of it on fake Faith, I'd assume.
And then when an unknowing fake Faith comes back from her job,and George kills her, thinking she was the real one. After that, having saved herself, the real Faith ,with Nerissa's appearance, takes fake Faith's head and places it on Bigby's doorstep, hoping that he could follow the lead , and take Crooked Man out and finally free her from him.
To me it seems that the real Faith did something really selfish to keep herself alive, at the cost of a friend's life. She seems to have planted evidence on her true Faith self when she realized she was gonna get caught, and then asked an unknowing friend to take her appearance as favor to cover for a client. Then she backstabs her friend by taking her appearance and ratting her "fake self" out, letting her take the punishment in her stead. It seems her main priority was to save herself.
They are not forgotten, Snow and Crane just didn't care as long as it didn't affect Woodlands or creates a risk to expose them to mundy's they didn't think it was murder. When a head is dropped at the Woodlands doorsteps its pretty clear they had to investigate because a serial killer like that is a risk.
Thats an interesting theory but it contradicts what she said that at first Georgie went to The Crooked Man and only then he murdered them it wouldn't happen in such a short time.
Well if it was just those two then I could see it being dropped, Nerissa was right because they do get forgotten.
I think Nerissa was Faith though, just because of what it says the book of fables.
I agree. I think there's way too much riding on the whole Nerissa-was-Faith-and-Faith-was-Nerissa-all-along theory for it to really work.
Faith would need to be in Nerissa glamour for the ENTIRE game, beginning to end. Which sounds insane already. But that also means that "Faith's" head in Episode 1 was actually Nerissa's.
Glamours don't last forever, do they? Even if the glamour tube remained unopened, it would still eventually run out. Otherwise there would be no issue with Fables like Toad claiming that they can't afford to keep buying glamours. If Faith really was Nerissa, wouldn't the glamour have run out at some point, and everyone would know? And if Doctor Swineheart somehow found out that Faith was actually a glamoured Nerissa, wouldn't he tell Snow immediately?
I haven't read a good explanation to why Faith would do this to Lawrence either. It's entirely possible for him to be kept alive in the game, which I did. There doesn't seem to be any motive for Faith to essentially fake her death to Lawrence. Even if they were having problems in their relationship. Why would she do that?
If Nerissa and Faith swapped their images completely, how couldn't Georgie have known who was who? Glamouring in their line of work seemed like a common thing, and I figured Georgie of all people would be able to tell if this was the case. Especially if Vivian was cooperating with him. Is it really possible that Nerissa and Faith somehow fooled both Georgie and Vivian?
If Nerissa was actually Faith in disguise the entire time, then who provided the glamour for her? We find out who the underground witch was that was creating glamours for Georgie, who was Auntie Greenleaf. Wouldn't Auntie Greenleaf have known more than anyone else that Nerissa was Faith in disguise? Unless there's another underground witch out there who secretly provided these glamours for Faith and Nerissa... But that would be, I dunno, a cop out? Seems like absolutely anyone who had any kind of involvement or relation with the murders or the Crooked Man appeared in this story arc. So I don't think this is the case.
I've seen people mention the Mirror being unable to show the location of Faith's body as proof that she was alive. I'm not quite sure what to think of this, but I don't think it explicitly means that Faith was still alive.
Maybe there is something I'm missing. And I still have some questions about the story (If it was Nerissa glamoured as Faith in the first episode, why didn't she just tell Bigby at the end of Episode 5?) But still, I just can't see how that theory works. There's too much that would need to be in perfect place in order for it all to work, through sheer circumstance or incompetence from other Fables. It seems much more reasonable to me that Nerissa was glamoured as Faith that one time, then steered Bigby in the right direction.
Snow cared
She says the old way of doing things was broken, several times throughout the season.
It is clear that once the ribbon is removed the spell is broken so thats almost a a perfect proof, I doubt Greenleaf has the power to see trough glamour and I dont think she needs to approve the glamours, you only need her tube to create them, remember that Jack was trying to resell them. Also the story doesn't last for months or years so the glamour wearing off is not an issue.
How long was it exactly? There was about a 5 hours timeframe between Bigby seeing Faith for the last time, and her head showing up, right?
Don't forget the Crooked Man has that whole teleport thing going on. I assume that meeting him wouldn't be all that complicated.
Real Faith meets Bigby, then goes back to club.
Real Faith convinces real Nerissa to glamour as her to cover for a client, since she's not feeling well because of Woodie's beating. Fake Faith is born.
Real Faith glamours as Nerissa and rats fake Faith out as soon as she leaves. Georgie has that urgent meeting with Crooked Man. They decide to kill Faith.
Fake Faith comes back from her job, and gets mistakenly killed by Georgie, who thinks she's the real one. Then real Faith, still glamoured as Nerissa, takes her head to Bigby.
It doesn't sound that far fetched that it could happen in a short time.
Even if the Crooked Man didn't just teleport to the meeting, did you see how quickly he came around when Georgie called him about Crane getting away in EP3? He got to the club almost instantly, by car, in time to ambush Bigby and friends.
After she saw what was really going on, before that it was just some random complaints for her, she was unaware about the prostitution ring, enslavement or murders. She lived with pink sunglasses on in the Woodlands so to say. She tells that to Bigby at the cab - what I really do all they is keep the misfortunate ones away from Crane.
TCM probably came for Crane and Bigby just got in the way but your theory is really contradicted by the fact that she says she never intended to get anyone killed and if her plan was to actually get Nerissa killed it would seem she failed at first if it was only after TCM orders Georgie to kill her. Also why not use the photos against Crane and TCM in the first place as the original plan then? That could have exposed the whole thing just as well. Its really hard to assume Nerissa and Faith where arguing about the role switch so badly if it was normal thing to cover for each other.
Actually, your theory is the only one who totally works
Here is what happened, and I'm pretty sure it's the right interpretation of the story:
We only see Faith the whole season, at the start as herself and later on glamoured as Nerissa.
What happened is this: they were planning to escape the prostitution house and get rid of that kind of life, and Faith found out about that photo, but Nerissa was the weak link of the group, she was the insecure girl that could make their plan go south, and she was going to open her mouth to Georgie and then he would have to go talk to the Crooked Man who would probably punish them very hard, probably killing Faith for her treason. Faith, by knowing that, manages somehow to glamour Nerissa into her ( and I think Nerissa didn't want to), and she glamours herself into Nerissa. Then Georgie gets the order to take care of Faith, and end up killing who he tought it was Faith, but actually was Nerissa.
----This whole thing that I wrote happened before you start playing the game -----
Now the game begins and Faith, wanting to make justice to the girls that like her, never get noticed and get killed all the time and never get remembered, goes to the Woodsman apartment (this time without glamour, but with Nerissa already dead), and makes a scene so that it could get the attention from Bigby and creates some connection with her so that he would investigate if something happens. After that encounter with Bigby she knows that he will suspect and investigate if something happens to Faith. So, after meting Bigby, she glamours herself back as Nerissa and stands like that until the end of the season. But to make Bigby investigate the prostitutes deaths, she gets the head of dead Nerissa, which was glamoured as Faith, and sets it in front of the apartment.
By doing that she instigates Bigby to continue the investigation and end up discovering all about the Crooked Man behind all this stuff.
In the end she was actually Faith glamoured as Nerissa, and she did what she had to do to escape from being killed but yet helped her friends by showing Bigby the real bad things that were happening to them.
So that's the moral of the story in the end of season 1, Faith wanted to stop this abusive relation between the prostitutes and the Crooked Man, so she put Bigby in the way because she knew he wouldnt give up until reaching the end of it.
Spoiler in the title
But what was the point in changing into each other with the glamours. One of them was going to be killed either way. Maybe just to sacrifice herself since she knew Georgie was going to kill the real faith.
I think it was Nerissa all along, not only because of story-related elements, but also because of lines such as: "Are you legs a glamour?" "They're not. They cost me a lot." Or the way she says "NERISSA! My name is NERISSA!" Also, the theme of wanting to be more than what she is and be real and not forgotten is a theme from The Little Mermaid. When she says "We fade", it's what's reserved to the mermaids, turned into foam.
(Also, I don't think Faith would have had the time to put on jeans to drop Nerissa's (glamored) head in the yard, whereas Nerissa clearly wears jeans.)
She's still under the spell of the ribbon, after all, so what use would it be to give him the pictures if that's the extent of the help she could give?All it would do is make Bigby start questioning the girls at the club, and they couldn't really help at all. It was better to have him start looking for a killer rather than a useless witness who can't say anything.
If fake Nerissa had left the clue there that she was working against the Crooked Man, it would only make Georgie more suspicious of her since Bigby having the evidence would pretty much confirm that there is a traitor among them. Fake Nerissa wants to protect herself. At least having Bigby think that it was a message from the killer instead of help from a traitor within wouldn't set off any "There is a traitor among us!" bells within Crooked Man's crew.
Besides, weren't the pictures on Lilly? I don't think Faith had access to them at the time.
Like Buffkin said, it's in Faith's nature to disguise herself in order to get out of a tough situation. I do think she intended for Nerissa to take the fall for her.
Well you cant argue with the fact that removing the ribbon breaks the spell, so if the magic mirror couldn't find her it means only one thing the spell isn't broken and Faith was alive.
I think removing the ribbon kills them, but the spell still exists as long as Vivian does. I think. I mean, it's "powerful magic".
Well even with magic/fantasy stuff you need to have some kind of a logic, if Vivians ribbon can break the spell so should the ribbons that where created from it.
I was watching a playthrough and at the end where it shows all the characters listed with the decisions you've made, it classifies Faith as "Deceased". I also noticed in other playthroughs that that wasn't there. This could do with some explaining as well.
The book of fables mentions that cheap glamour is unreliable and prone to sudden failures. And this is regarding Auntie Greenleaf's glamour, an actual witch. If you're implying that Faith and Nerissa took it upon themselves to create composite glamour images of each other, then I think theirs would be even less effective and more unstable than the glamours Auntie Greenleaf made.
Again that goes back to what I said earlier, about this theory relying on a lot of circumstance for it to work.
There certainly are a lot of questions in the air. And who knows, maybe this theory is true after all, but right now, I think it's too convoluted and shaky. I just don't see it as a reasonable theory.
It's not like that. The way it seems is that Nerissa was glamoured as Faith in the beginning of Episode 1 because she wanted to purposely start a conflict that would get Bigby's attention and get him to be attracted to Faith(who was already dead). That way, when Nerissa later placed Faith's head on his doorstep, Bigby would take it personally and not dismiss the case so easily. To add to this, throughout the game, there are dialog options that stress that he's doing everything for Faith(and another time for Lily).
So maybe in the end, Bigby could confront Nerissa because he realized what she did and was mad that she manipulated his emotions like that to only save herself. But the option to not go after her was probably better, because in the end, everything was for avenging the girls while also taking down The Crooked Man once and for all. And since Nerissa was leaving, he doesn't need to worry about anymore escapades from her again.
I imagine it is like leashes around a pole. If you cut one leash, the structure is still solid; you have to cut down the pole to destroy it.
I completely agree with your explanation. I couldn't have said it better myself.
All of you guys are making great points and I am now even with both theories. I really can't pick one, STILL! But another question I can't get out of my head is why the hell was Snow so cold to Bigby at the end? I did both ways to kill The Crooked Man. I threw him down the well and I ripped his head off. I haven't tried to lock him up just because I don't trust Greenleaf. So I don't know how Snow reacts when you do that. But I was caring and supportive to her throughout the entire season and when we finally finish off The Crooked Man she acts cold towards Bigby! Why?!
I thought it was that Faith was already dead by the time the game starts, and that its Nerissa glamoured as Faith that Bigby saves from the Woodsman. I thought she did this so Bigby would grow close to "Faith" and when Nerissa put the real Faith's head on the doorstep, Bigby would feel personally involved and continue the mystery to would lead back to the Crooked Man
That's what I thought initially. But I'm still not sure.
Sorry. I didn't know what else to call it.
Damn it. This is the explanation that makes me doubt what really happened... AGHH!!!!! DUMB GAME!!!
After reading a bunch of forums on this I realized, why couldn'tve the glamour making nerissa look like faith be after faith went to woody's? We have no idea how long it was between bigby leaving woody's and snow finding the head, also, we never actually SEE faith get the bruises at Woody's so I think the whole "bruise on the head" thing might not disprove anything.
Are you saying if nerissa didn't get beaten up by woody bigby would've seen the head and been like "meh".
No... but a cop/detective are more likely to do their absolute best on a case if they are personally involved.
you took the words right out of my mouth