I have an easier time imagining Faith speaking to Bigby in is office in E4 than Nerissa in E1, and for that reason alone I think it was Faith we saw at the end.
Nerissa makes more sense to me, but some of the dialogue at the explicitly mentions about how Faith escaped her kingdom and Swineheart not getting back on Faith's autopsy, so its obvously Faith.
Makes zero since to me that Nerissa would be Faith in episode 1. Because what if someone who knew Faith was already dead saw Faith walking around alive? That's hug risk for Nerissa to take just so Bigby would care about Faith. And we know the big Crooked Man himself knew that "Faith" spoke with Bigby that night because of those photos in the Steel factory. You don't think he wouldn't have figured out who was disguised as Faith and handle the situation?
Makes way more sense to me that it's been Faith all a long. I don't see why Vivian's spell would hide someone's body after spell was broken and it would have been if Faith's ribbon had been taken off. The fact we know Faith used hiding her identity once to escape a bad situation and that Swinheart never got back to Bigby about the head. All that together smells like fish to me.
Lily's glamour and Auntie Greenleaf's only stopped working when Bigby opened the right glamour tube There's no indication that it wears off over time, and no one has opened 'Nerissa's' glamour tube yet.
Yeah those 2 are the biggest indicators that it's Faith. I've yet to hear anyone explain why those lines are harked back to if it was Nerissa all along.
Nerissa makes more sense to me, but some of the dialogue at the explicitly mentions about how Faith escaped her kingdom and Swineheart not getting back on Faith's autopsy, so its obvously Faith.
In my mind, the Nerissa is Faith theory seems to make more sense in the context of the story as it requires less explanations: Nerissa acting as Faith meets Bigby, has a moment with him to ensure he is emotionally invested, and then places Faith's head to ensure he starts an investigation, probably out of guilt of ratting out her friends. The problem with this theory is the fact that the mirror can't find Faith, that the bruises of Faith's clash with the Woodsman are in the found head and that the game strongly hints to Nerissa being Faith all along.
The theory that Faith is Nerissa requires more explanation, as Georgie explicitly states that he killed Faith and Lily, meaning at some point Faith and Nerissa had to glamour as each other. Also, there is the problem of the head found with the bruises from the Woodsman, if that is Nerissa's head, how come it had the same bruises as Faith incurred in her "fight" with the Woodsman. However, thinking about the mirror and what the game mentions and hints about Faith, it does seem that Faith is indeed acting as Nerissa.
In my opinion, the ending is very good and fits very well with the overall tone of the story. If Faith was Nerissa then it could be argued that she used her friend, perhaps as revenge for her ratting them out. If it was Nerissa all along, then she deceived Bigby to get him into the case. In any event, I think that even if we get a season 2 this topic won't be treated. The ending is intentionally ambiguous and doesn't really change the overall story: whether you believe the Nerissa as Faith or the Faith as Nerissa story the result is that the Crooked Man end in prison or dead and that, from now on, Fabletown is controlled by the duo Snow/Bigby as we see in the comics.
-Georgie kills Faith, not Nerissa (why would Nerissa be glamoured as Faith when she dies?).
-Woody, beats Nerissa, not Faith, partly because she doesn't recognise him (he must think Faith would recognise him).
-Nerissa has strong feelings about her Little Mermaid history, like references to her legs and that sort of thing. I don't see Faith having those feelings, even if she cared for her friend, she wouldn't necessarily be bitter or sad over that.
-Nerissa never shows any interest in Faith's husband. You'd think there would be some hints if she was actually Faith.
Also, we spend a whole season getting to know Nerissa. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't like to find out that was all just a lie and it's actually Faith.
You guys saying it was Nerissa acting as Faith in EP1 are missing one thing:
Why was she carrying Faith's Donkeyskin cloak, and left it at Woody's apartment to be found, along with a letter adressed to Lawrence saying "I'm sorry - Faith " ? That was the real Faith and she already knew what was going to happen to her that night, which is why she planted her Donkeyskin there to be found by the right person so the letter could be delivered to Lawrence. She was prepared. She knew only those who had a reason to search the Donkeyskin would do it and find the letter - such as Bigby while investigating the last place she was seen at - because the Donkeyskin is so ugly it usually repulses people.
She was also taunting Woody purposefully, by asking him who he was. Since she had arranged with her friend Lily to go see him in her place, I'm 100% sure that Lily would have at least told her who he was, and that he's got a temper.Remember the note from Lily to Faith at the Pudding and Pie "Faith, thanks for covering for me tonight, let's talk before you go over to the apartment" ? Lily and Faith were friends after all. I bet she was egging Woody on to beat her, so she could have an excuse to ask a girl in the club to take her place for the rest of the night, and thus be killed in her place. The girls have a habit of covering for each other with glamours when the other is feeling sick.
Also, how would Nerissa immediately know where to look for Lily's head to deliver it to Bigby, if Lily had only told Faith about her date with Crane at room 207, since the arrangement was between those two? [again, the note at Pudding and Pie]
That's because Nerissa is Faith disguised.
Faith is a master of disguise, we thought we knew her at first, but she's very good at doing what she does, assuming a new a identity to fool others and coming out unscathed. It's the whole point of her original tale.
Another cool hint that Telltale seems to have left, is how the first episode is called Faith [indicating she's important], and how the second is called Smoke and Mirrors [which a popular expression for being fooled by an illusion] and has Nerissa as the main focus of the artwork.
I think we met the real Faith in episode 1 after Bigby saves her from The Woodsman, she goes to the Pudding N' Pie and gets killed. Nerissa feeling horrible about what happened took Faith's head and planted it on Bigby's doorstep. She tries to warn Lily but she wouldn't listen, so after her appointment with Crane, Georgie kills her too, Nerissa climbs up the hotel and plants the picture and plants Lily's head at Bigby's doorstep again, Georgie with the help of The Jersey Devil throws Lily's body down the lake. Swineheart doesn't know the ribbon so that's why he ran more tests. So, when he first comes to talk to Nerissa she leads him to The Open Arms to find the picture of lily and Crane. Nerissa knowing that Crane a puppet of The Crooked man sends Bigby after him, so when Bigby finds him. he meets The Crooked Man, which then Bigby's goes after she goes to his office in episode 4 to make sure he's on the right track. So when she hears about Beauty and Beast she leads him there which then leads Bigby to find The Crooked Man and stop him, which he does. So by the end Nerissa played Bigby.
there are a lot of things that don't add up either way like why couldn't the magic mirror show faith's body when she was clearly dead that means the ribbon was removed and the magic was gone unless it wasn't faith that was dead. however georgie didn't deny killing faith so if it didn't happn it would be pointless for him to say he did do it.
I think you're onto something. There are several things I'd like to add.
How did Faith get the picture of Crane & Lily, and why do the pictures match those found at the foundry?
"Shouldn't it be concealing things like track marks" and "I heard they only go for the legs if they used up the veins in their arms"
How did "Nerissa" know what was mentioned at the trial, and the emotional outburst if the Crooked Man was alive or go out against Crane if Crooked Man was dead?
How could the stolen pictures end up in The Open Arms room 207?
You guys saying it was Nerissa acting as Faith in EP1 are missing one thing:
Why was she carrying Faith's Donkeyskin cloak, and left it a… moret Woody's apartment to be found, along with a letter adressed to Lawrence saying "I'm sorry - Faith " ? That was the real Faith and she already knew what was going to happen to her that night, which is why she planted her Donkeyskin there to be found by the right person so the letter could be delivered to Lawrence. She was prepared. She knew only those who had a reason to search the Donkeyskin would do it and find the letter - such as Bigby while investigating the last place she was seen at - because the Donkeyskin is so ugly it usually repulses people.
She was also taunting Woody purposefully, by asking him who he was. Since she had arranged with her friend Lily to go see him in her place, I'm 100% sure that Lily would have at least told her who he was, and that he's got a temper.Remember the note fro… [view original content]
all these theories rely on some of the characters telling the truth because there is very little solid evidence to work with most of it is based on what Nerissa/Faith says at the end but if she isn't honest about who she is then how can we trust that what she said is the truth?
The answer for the Nerissa side of that argument isnt that complex. Georgie sent Nerissa to go finish Faiths appointments so that no one wo… moreuld ask any questions about her disappearance...if they noticed to begin with.
Meeting Bigsby was a happy accident in either case that actually put the idea of the plan into motion.
I don't understand your 5. and 6. - whose bruises is Faith looking at? You seem to be assuming Nerissa is already glamoured as Faith here, even though you say it happens later at 8. Toad says he found the coat in the apartment upstairs, not that he was given it - more likely that she left it in the apartment (whether or not on purpose) rather than giving it to Toad
Here is everything in a nutshell what happens and who's who.
* Faith steals photos of Crane and Lily.
* Faith overhears Nerissa tellin… moreg Georgie about their plot.
* Faith follows Georgie to the foundry from where she stole the photos.
* Faith goes to her apartment for her cloak and notices Georgie attempted suicide but was still alive.
* Faith goes to Woody's, during which she looks at her bruises, and gives Toad her coat.
* Faith listens to hear Nerissa go out and delivers the bruises to match her bruises.
* Faith goes to warn Lily but notices Lily ain't there, so she puts the stolen photos where no one would find them except Bigby.
* Faith glamours herself as Nerissa and glamours Nerissa as herself.
* Faith listens to Georgie.
* Nerissa comes in and dies.
* Faith takes Nerissa's head to the Woodlands.
The rest we already know
I mean their apartment, since they are only separated.
Notice Faith uses her compact at Woody's. Faith would be waiting for Nerissa and very focused, she knows that the session with Crane would take a long time. While Faith was at the foundry Crane took Lily to the Woodlands.
"Who's coat? The girl's." Remember those 2 lines? How would Toad know it was Faith's coat?
You mean Lawrence at 4. right?
I don't understand your 5. and 6. - whose bruises is Faith looking at? You seem to be assuming Nerissa is … morealready glamoured as Faith here, even though you say it happens later at 8. Toad says he found the coat in the apartment upstairs, not that he was given it - more likely that she left it in the apartment (whether or not on purpose) rather than giving it to Toad
I am rather certain that Faith is Nerissa at the end because if you let the crooked man have a trial when Nerissa starts talking to him his eyes go wide and he whispers the word 'Faith'. This suggests that the crooked man has worked out that Faith is Nerrisa.
??? How can it possibly be Faith when Faith has been confirmed dead by several people, including the guy who killed her? This is a ridiculous question, and there's no reason at all to believe it's anyone but Nerissa.
I just don't understand one thing: why didn't Swineheart get back to Bigby and Snow about Faith's head? Surely if it was just a normal head, he would have said something to them but if it was glamoured, why didn't it go back to normal? I mean, the game takes place in the course of at least 4 days, maybe the glamour was just super mega powerful but still, I hate when the explanation for things is: "Oh, it doesn't need to make sense! It's just magic!".
I just don't understand one thing: why didn't Swineheart get back to Bigby and Snow about Faith's head? Surely if it was just a normal head,… more he would have said something to them but if it was glamoured, why didn't it go back to normal? I mean, the game takes place in the course of at least 4 days, maybe the glamour was just super mega powerful but still, I hate when the explanation for things is: "Oh, it doesn't need to make sense! It's just magic!".
Yeah, I agree that there was a reason why they showed us that the glamour tubes needed to be opened to break the spell. Even if the glamoured person was dead. That was a very careful detail that was worked in for a reason. So that explains how the head could be someone else's, not Faith's. And since we don't know where the glamour tube is, who knows when or if it will ever be opened?
If Nerissa was actually Faith, maybe she's keeping both glamour tubes with her. Because of the scenario with Auntie Greenleaf/Rachel we've already seen that they do not actually have to be worn or carried on a person's body to be effective.
I am rather certain that Faith is Nerissa at the end because if you let the crooked man have a trial when Nerissa starts talking to him his … moreeyes go wide and he whispers the word 'Faith'. This suggests that the crooked man has worked out that Faith is Nerrisa.
Faith stole a photo of Crane and Lily which turns up at Crane's hotel room. How would Nerissa know where the photos are and point you towards them if only Faith knew where they were?
How would Nerissa know where Lily is when Lily had 2 appointments set at one time, and the only person to know for certain where Lily was is Faith?
Also why did Swineheart want to run more tests? We know black market glamours don't get everything right. If Faith came to Swineheart everyone would have seen her explaining how both Snow and Bigby saw her. Swineheart would be into details, hence he would be surprised if something wouldn't match.
Those are the ones that say there is no way we talked to Nerissa.
There is only 2 things that would be a tie, but outside the ties everything points to talking with Faith.
??? How can it possibly be Faith when Faith has been confirmed dead by several people, including the guy who killed her? This is a ridiculous question, and there's no reason at all to believe it's anyone but Nerissa.
Well... I don't think it makes that much of a sense...
So they had this plan to escape together (Faith, Nerissa, Lilly). After a while, Nerissa changed her mind and went to tell everything to Georgie.
The Crooked dipshit knew about it, so told Georgie to kill the girls and teach them a lesson (not sure how are they gonna remember that, lol)
Nerissa knew about that because she was "close" to Georgie so she tried to prevent her friend Lilly but was too late. So I think Faith was already dead. She didn't know what to do, so she went to the sheriff.
So the Faith you saw, was actually Nerissa. Faith was already dead. Nerissa glamoured herself to put Bigby in the right track.
Faith. I think that it really was Faith we met at the beginning, and she was glamoured as Nerissa for the rest of the game. Not sure why Nerissa was glamoured as Faith when she died, though.
Comments
I have an easier time imagining Faith speaking to Bigby in is office in E4 than Nerissa in E1, and for that reason alone I think it was Faith we saw at the end.
I would think it was Nerrisa except for the stupid mirror thing so I don't really know but im slightly leaning towards it being faith
bump
Nerrisa.
Nerissa makes more sense to me, but some of the dialogue at the explicitly mentions about how Faith escaped her kingdom and Swineheart not getting back on Faith's autopsy, so its obvously Faith.
Make me.
Makes zero since to me that Nerissa would be Faith in episode 1. Because what if someone who knew Faith was already dead saw Faith walking around alive? That's hug risk for Nerissa to take just so Bigby would care about Faith. And we know the big Crooked Man himself knew that "Faith" spoke with Bigby that night because of those photos in the Steel factory. You don't think he wouldn't have figured out who was disguised as Faith and handle the situation?
Makes way more sense to me that it's been Faith all a long. I don't see why Vivian's spell would hide someone's body after spell was broken and it would have been if Faith's ribbon had been taken off. The fact we know Faith used hiding her identity once to escape a bad situation and that Swinheart never got back to Bigby about the head. All that together smells like fish to me.
Nerissa because faiths head would of unglamoured like Lilly's did wouldn't it?
Lily's glamour and Auntie Greenleaf's only stopped working when Bigby opened the right glamour tube There's no indication that it wears off over time, and no one has opened 'Nerissa's' glamour tube yet.
Yeah those 2 are the biggest indicators that it's Faith. I've yet to hear anyone explain why those lines are harked back to if it was Nerissa all along.
In my mind, the Nerissa is Faith theory seems to make more sense in the context of the story as it requires less explanations: Nerissa acting as Faith meets Bigby, has a moment with him to ensure he is emotionally invested, and then places Faith's head to ensure he starts an investigation, probably out of guilt of ratting out her friends. The problem with this theory is the fact that the mirror can't find Faith, that the bruises of Faith's clash with the Woodsman are in the found head and that the game strongly hints to Nerissa being Faith all along.
The theory that Faith is Nerissa requires more explanation, as Georgie explicitly states that he killed Faith and Lily, meaning at some point Faith and Nerissa had to glamour as each other. Also, there is the problem of the head found with the bruises from the Woodsman, if that is Nerissa's head, how come it had the same bruises as Faith incurred in her "fight" with the Woodsman. However, thinking about the mirror and what the game mentions and hints about Faith, it does seem that Faith is indeed acting as Nerissa.
In my opinion, the ending is very good and fits very well with the overall tone of the story. If Faith was Nerissa then it could be argued that she used her friend, perhaps as revenge for her ratting them out. If it was Nerissa all along, then she deceived Bigby to get him into the case. In any event, I think that even if we get a season 2 this topic won't be treated. The ending is intentionally ambiguous and doesn't really change the overall story: whether you believe the Nerissa as Faith or the Faith as Nerissa story the result is that the Crooked Man end in prison or dead and that, from now on, Fabletown is controlled by the duo Snow/Bigby as we see in the comics.
Or maybe what happens in that moment determines the tailoring for Season 2?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkysjcs5vFU
Voted. I think Nerissa makes more sense.
-Georgie kills Faith, not Nerissa (why would Nerissa be glamoured as Faith when she dies?).
-Woody, beats Nerissa, not Faith, partly because she doesn't recognise him (he must think Faith would recognise him).
-Nerissa has strong feelings about her Little Mermaid history, like references to her legs and that sort of thing. I don't see Faith having those feelings, even if she cared for her friend, she wouldn't necessarily be bitter or sad over that.
-Nerissa never shows any interest in Faith's husband. You'd think there would be some hints if she was actually Faith.
Also, we spend a whole season getting to know Nerissa. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't like to find out that was all just a lie and it's actually Faith.
You guys saying it was Nerissa acting as Faith in EP1 are missing one thing:
Why was she carrying Faith's Donkeyskin cloak, and left it at Woody's apartment to be found, along with a letter adressed to Lawrence saying "I'm sorry - Faith " ? That was the real Faith and she already knew what was going to happen to her that night, which is why she planted her Donkeyskin there to be found by the right person so the letter could be delivered to Lawrence. She was prepared. She knew only those who had a reason to search the Donkeyskin would do it and find the letter - such as Bigby while investigating the last place she was seen at - because the Donkeyskin is so ugly it usually repulses people.
She was also taunting Woody purposefully, by asking him who he was. Since she had arranged with her friend Lily to go see him in her place, I'm 100% sure that Lily would have at least told her who he was, and that he's got a temper.Remember the note from Lily to Faith at the Pudding and Pie "Faith, thanks for covering for me tonight, let's talk before you go over to the apartment" ? Lily and Faith were friends after all. I bet she was egging Woody on to beat her, so she could have an excuse to ask a girl in the club to take her place for the rest of the night, and thus be killed in her place. The girls have a habit of covering for each other with glamours when the other is feeling sick.
Also, how would Nerissa immediately know where to look for Lily's head to deliver it to Bigby, if Lily had only told Faith about her date with Crane at room 207, since the arrangement was between those two? [again, the note at Pudding and Pie]
That's because Nerissa is Faith disguised.
Faith is a master of disguise, we thought we knew her at first, but she's very good at doing what she does, assuming a new a identity to fool others and coming out unscathed. It's the whole point of her original tale.
Another cool hint that Telltale seems to have left, is how the first episode is called Faith [indicating she's important], and how the second is called Smoke and Mirrors [which a popular expression for being fooled by an illusion] and has Nerissa as the main focus of the artwork.
I think we met the real Faith in episode 1 after Bigby saves her from The Woodsman, she goes to the Pudding N' Pie and gets killed. Nerissa feeling horrible about what happened took Faith's head and planted it on Bigby's doorstep. She tries to warn Lily but she wouldn't listen, so after her appointment with Crane, Georgie kills her too, Nerissa climbs up the hotel and plants the picture and plants Lily's head at Bigby's doorstep again, Georgie with the help of The Jersey Devil throws Lily's body down the lake. Swineheart doesn't know the ribbon so that's why he ran more tests. So, when he first comes to talk to Nerissa she leads him to The Open Arms to find the picture of lily and Crane. Nerissa knowing that Crane a puppet of The Crooked man sends Bigby after him, so when Bigby finds him. he meets The Crooked Man, which then Bigby's goes after she goes to his office in episode 4 to make sure he's on the right track. So when she hears about Beauty and Beast she leads him there which then leads Bigby to find The Crooked Man and stop him, which he does. So by the end Nerissa played Bigby.
there are a lot of things that don't add up either way like why couldn't the magic mirror show faith's body when she was clearly dead that means the ribbon was removed and the magic was gone unless it wasn't faith that was dead. however georgie didn't deny killing faith so if it didn't happn it would be pointless for him to say he did do it.
I think you're onto something. There are several things I'd like to add.
Here is everything in a nutshell what happens and who's who.
The rest we already know
all these theories rely on some of the characters telling the truth because there is very little solid evidence to work with most of it is based on what Nerissa/Faith says at the end but if she isn't honest about who she is then how can we trust that what she said is the truth?
You mean Lawrence at 4. right?
I don't understand your 5. and 6. - whose bruises is Faith looking at? You seem to be assuming Nerissa is already glamoured as Faith here, even though you say it happens later at 8. Toad says he found the coat in the apartment upstairs, not that he was given it - more likely that she left it in the apartment (whether or not on purpose) rather than giving it to Toad
I mean their apartment, since they are only separated.
Notice Faith uses her compact at Woody's. Faith would be waiting for Nerissa and very focused, she knows that the session with Crane would take a long time. While Faith was at the foundry Crane took Lily to the Woodlands.
"Who's coat? The girl's." Remember those 2 lines? How would Toad know it was Faith's coat?
%53 Nerissa and %47 Faith.
I am rather certain that Faith is Nerissa at the end because if you let the crooked man have a trial when Nerissa starts talking to him his eyes go wide and he whispers the word 'Faith'. This suggests that the crooked man has worked out that Faith is Nerrisa.
??? How can it possibly be Faith when Faith has been confirmed dead by several people, including the guy who killed her? This is a ridiculous question, and there's no reason at all to believe it's anyone but Nerissa.
Faith.
I just don't understand one thing: why didn't Swineheart get back to Bigby and Snow about Faith's head? Surely if it was just a normal head, he would have said something to them but if it was glamoured, why didn't it go back to normal? I mean, the game takes place in the course of at least 4 days, maybe the glamour was just super mega powerful but still, I hate when the explanation for things is: "Oh, it doesn't need to make sense! It's just magic!".
A few others have pointed out that Lily and Aunty Greenleafs' glamours faded when their glamour tubes were opened.
Yeah, I agree that there was a reason why they showed us that the glamour tubes needed to be opened to break the spell. Even if the glamoured person was dead. That was a very careful detail that was worked in for a reason. So that explains how the head could be someone else's, not Faith's. And since we don't know where the glamour tube is, who knows when or if it will ever be opened?
If Nerissa was actually Faith, maybe she's keeping both glamour tubes with her. Because of the scenario with Auntie Greenleaf/Rachel we've already seen that they do not actually have to be worn or carried on a person's body to be effective.
The Crooked man actually whispers, "wait" if you throw subtitles on.
There are several, okay a lot.
Faith stole a photo of Crane and Lily which turns up at Crane's hotel room. How would Nerissa know where the photos are and point you towards them if only Faith knew where they were?
How would Nerissa know where Lily is when Lily had 2 appointments set at one time, and the only person to know for certain where Lily was is Faith?
Also why did Swineheart want to run more tests? We know black market glamours don't get everything right. If Faith came to Swineheart everyone would have seen her explaining how both Snow and Bigby saw her. Swineheart would be into details, hence he would be surprised if something wouldn't match.
Those are the ones that say there is no way we talked to Nerissa.
There is only 2 things that would be a tie, but outside the ties everything points to talking with Faith.
Well... I don't think it makes that much of a sense...
So they had this plan to escape together (Faith, Nerissa, Lilly). After a while, Nerissa changed her mind and went to tell everything to Georgie.
The Crooked dipshit knew about it, so told Georgie to kill the girls and teach them a lesson (not sure how are they gonna remember that, lol)
Nerissa knew about that because she was "close" to Georgie so she tried to prevent her friend Lilly but was too late. So I think Faith was already dead. She didn't know what to do, so she went to the sheriff.
So the Faith you saw, was actually Nerissa. Faith was already dead. Nerissa glamoured herself to put Bigby in the right track.
At least... That's MY theory
It has to be Faith glamoured as Nerissa
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/75785/faith-nerissa-solved
It can be who ever viewer want her to be actually.