And from such a point I would have to actually agree. I find it fascinating how we, as humans, tend to see the success of something and try yielding it to our own gain. It's sad to see people twist the spiritual of things simply for self-conceited goals. Self-justification is always a tricky aspect of conviction as well--all in search to justify our actions.
I see you point definitely from the aspect of using religion to control. First thing that came to my mind would the film "Book of Eli". And that leads me to another question for discussion: would you say the errancy of "religion" then would be on God's part or man's? Or is the approach of religion just foolish from the start?:) thank you for your response, by the way
Yes we can have a discussion about it.
Though art has many meanings this song is trying to display the theme of everyone in politics and … morereligion uses God for personal gain. They do it so much that them themselves create a greater evil than what they claim they combat. Some of the first lyrics shows this, for example when slaveowners had slaves they used religion and God to say it was right. When the Nazis were killing Jews in the Holocaust they used religion claiming "The Jews killed Jesus and must be punished" and many other means of control.
Is there any questions you have about the song?
I see religion as explaing things we did not know back then.
Its much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic.
Now I think people take it too seriously now and days, I think people use God now and days to make themselves feel better, however then there are assholes like the Westboro Baptist Church.
This is another Voltaire song, if you dont mind listening, its about religion aswell.
And from such a point I would have to actually agree. I find it fascinating how we, as humans, tend to see the success of something and try … moreyielding it to our own gain. It's sad to see people twist the spiritual of things simply for self-conceited goals. Self-justification is always a tricky aspect of conviction as well--all in search to justify our actions.
I see you point definitely from the aspect of using religion to control. First thing that came to my mind would the film "Book of Eli". And that leads me to another question for discussion: would you say the errancy of "religion" then would be on God's part or man's? Or is the approach of religion just foolish from the start?:) thank you for your response, by the way
Haha, sooo much depth in two of your comments. Very well put: "people use God nowadays to make themselves feel better." I feel as though a theme is being carried on through both of Voltaire's songs you have shared (and both were very intriguing). Would I be correct then in stating that "God has let man down"? That is at least the vibe I am getting from Voltaire: that a God is there, just disappointing, distance, and distrusted.
As for Westboro Baptist Church--that would go back into the whole "using religion to fuel your following". I am not a fan of Scripture being taken out of context and over-exaggerated. Which leads me to another point you mentioned: "It's much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic." Might you elaborate more? I realize also that in the first song "God thinks" even Voltaire mentions that "God thinks everything that science gave us is wrong." What are you thoughts and how would you explain?
I see religion as explaing things we did not know back then.
Its much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic.
Now… more I think people take it too seriously now and days, I think people use God now and days to make themselves feel better, however then there are assholes like the Westboro Baptist Church.
This is another Voltaire song, if you dont mind listening, its about religion aswell.
Voltaire
For the first thing, in both of the songs he doesnt show distrust towards God. In the first song he was explaing how people who use God to get what they want and how thats bad. Voltaire is an Agnostic singer so that can explain his views. Near the end of the first song he says God is not good nor bad, God is you and me, God is everything. This is saying that God is neutral and that we all have part of the ability to change things. The second song is truly just explaing that people use God as a tool and if God exists he must be ashamed but isnt doing anything about it which makes him seem...Not truly there.
Secondly, back in the middle ages science was almost non existant for the people. They lived in a strange world they didnt understand. Back then everyday was a fight to survive so it was easier to just claim God and be content surving, when our lifespans increased, we started questioning everything including God.
Thirdly, thats just another claim by some religious people, not Voltaire's view.
Haha, sooo much depth in two of your comments. Very well put: "people use God nowadays to make themselves feel better." I feel as though a t… moreheme is being carried on through both of Voltaire's songs you have shared (and both were very intriguing). Would I be correct then in stating that "God has let man down"? That is at least the vibe I am getting from Voltaire: that a God is there, just disappointing, distance, and distrusted.
As for Westboro Baptist Church--that would go back into the whole "using religion to fuel your following". I am not a fan of Scripture being taken out of context and over-exaggerated. Which leads me to another point you mentioned: "It's much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic." Might you elaborate more? I realize also that in the first song "God thinks" even Voltaire mentions that "God thinks everything that science gave us is wrong." What are you thoughts and how would you explain?
His death was just too sad and cruel for me. And for him. He had a stroke, and half of his body was paralized. I knew well his biggest fear,… more being in a hospital and being unable to take care of himself.. He felt shameful and miserable for this. After 4 months of suffering he just died. Alone. I received the phone call and had to tell my mother..The whole thing just shocked me so hard, I prayed for him every single day, yet it didn't change anything. All he wanted was to go home. He was such a good man, and he didn't deserve this pain.
We do indeed have an innate ability to change things and that is a spectacular feat. However, I am intrigued by what you mentioned in your second paragraph. At what point, then, would you say that change of just "surviving" occurred and how would lifespans increasing spark the questioning of everything? I do know that there was an extreme "rebirthing" of art, learning, and literature during the Renaissance--truly a peculiar age.
For the first thing, in both of the songs he doesnt show distrust towards God. In the first song he was explaing how people who use God to g… moreet what they want and how thats bad. Voltaire is an Agnostic singer so that can explain his views. Near the end of the first song he says God is not good nor bad, God is you and me, God is everything. This is saying that God is neutral and that we all have part of the ability to change things. The second song is truly just explaing that people use God as a tool and if God exists he must be ashamed but isnt doing anything about it which makes him seem...Not truly there.
Secondly, back in the middle ages science was almost non existant for the people. They lived in a strange world they didnt understand. Back then everyday was a fight to survive so it was easier to just claim God and be content surving, when our lifespans increased, we started questioning everything including God.
Thirdly, thats just another claim by some religious people, not Voltaire's view.
I don't think so either, although I saw that a Satanist group is handing out Satanist kids' activity books in response to a pro-religion court case ruling in Florida. I took a look at the book, which they'd posted, and there was almost nothing about Satanism, with a lot of stuff about making up your own mind and being respectful of others.
No religion myself (the family's totally mixed: Wiccans, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, anything you can think of, except Satanists, and no FSM followers yet either).
yeah i know. Im not a satanist myself, but i have read a shit ton off stuff about them. And they are in no way the "evil satan worshippers" that other people want us to believe, they have very little about Satan in their religion, their religion is mostly about other values than christian values, whereas christians think that all people should be forgiven and be able to go the heaven, satanists doesn't think that good things should happen to bad people, so instead you can only get to "heaven" if you have been a good man/woman.
i think satanism are a very interesting religion (especially if you have spent so many years in school reading about the most common religions)
I don't think so either, although I saw that a Satanist group is handing out Satanist kids' activity books in response to a pro-religion cou… morert case ruling in Florida. I took a look at the book, which they'd posted, and there was almost nothing about Satanism, with a lot of stuff about making up your own mind and being respectful of others.
No religion myself (the family's totally mixed: Wiccans, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, anything you can think of, except Satanists, and no FSM followers yet either).
I haven't done a study on Satanists yet, but the first thing that came to my mind from the whole "being a good man/woman" was yet another religion I studied a while back called Zoroastrianism--another one I seem to hear little of nowadays. It seems a lot of people seem to think if your good outweighs your bad, then you should make it alright:P
yeah i know. Im not a satanist myself, but i have read a shit ton off stuff about them. And they are in no way the "evil satan worshippers" … morethat other people want us to believe, they have very little about Satan in their religion, their religion is mostly about other values than christian values, whereas christians think that all people should be forgiven and be able to go the heaven, satanists doesn't think that good things should happen to bad people, so instead you can only get to "heaven" if you have been a good man/woman.
i think satanism are a very interesting religion (especially if you have spent so many years in school reading about the most common religions)
Haha, it is rather weird isn't it? I can't help but think of the song "Belief" by John Mayer. Maybe it's because we often try using religion to obtain our own means to an end? I know for me, its disappointing to see Christianity turning into a "melting pot of religions" for the most part. But as Mayer put, everyone's trying to get everyone to turn from their belief to another's. But that's if you're taking the point of view that "my religion is better than yours".
Months ago we could place our opinions on here without being judged, I would brag about how even though we argue about the game we are pleasant about Religion. Now...I'm disappointed, we upvote anybody what is on our side we don't even read their argument. Months ago we would read the conversation, we would support the person with the better stance, not just the person with the same religion. We insult the other religions or other beliefs, then say we are the better person for just apologizing for such an act. I enjoy going back to this thread and remembering some of the good people we had...
That isn't what is happening at all. A few certain individuals have decided to try and shoot down a certain opposing opinion that a number of other people share. These people are defending their viewpoints. They aren't arguing that their viewpoint is right, only that they have a reason to believe in what they do.
I'm am disappointed in these Forums...
Months ago we could place our opinions on here without being judged, I would brag about how even t… morehough we argue about the game we are pleasant about Religion. Now...I'm disappointed, we upvote anybody what is on our side we don't even read their argument. Months ago we would read the conversation, we would support the person with the better stance, not just the person with the same religion. We insult the other religions or other beliefs, then say we are the better person for just apologizing for such an act. I enjoy going back to this thread and remembering some of the good people we had...
That isn't what is happening at all. A few certain individuals have decided to try and shoot down a certain opposing opinion that a number o… moref other people share. These people are defending their viewpoints. They aren't arguing that their viewpoint is right, only that they have a reason to believe in what they do.
I don't think the thread was as bad as people are saying. We did get heated pretty fast, but for the most part, not that many people were blatantly insulting each other, despite being on different sides. (excluding you know who and a couple other people.) I can understand why it was closed though, we went waayyy off topic lol.
That isn't what is happening at all. A few certain individuals have decided to try and shoot down a certain opposing opinion that a number o… moref other people share. These people are defending their viewpoints. They aren't arguing that their viewpoint is right, only that they have a reason to believe in what they do.
I am seriously tired of so many threads in the walking dead forum becoming a religious debate. I wish people could just respect peoples beliefs and just continue with the discussion that is actually at hand, it's usually just that one individual (who I won't name but I'm sure most of you know who I am talking about) that starts it all with his mindset of "anyone who is religious is ignorant, and my world view is right and yours is wrong." But I'm seriously sick of that. People like that should be banned, or at least warned for doing things like this. It isn't respectful or needed in anyway.
I am seriously tired of so many threads in the walking dead forum becoming a religious debate. I wish people could just respect peoples beli… moreefs and just continue with the discussion that is actually at hand, it's usually just that one individual (who I won't name but I'm sure most of you know who I am talking about) that starts it all with his mindset of "anyone who is religious is ignorant, and my world view is right and yours is wrong." But I'm seriously sick of that. People like that should be banned, or at least warned for doing things like this. It isn't respectful or needed in anyway.
This sounds like an awful idea because I like to stay neutral and generally be nice and polite not to mention that I'm 100% on board with tolerance and I always try to promote them but... Fuck it.
I'm an atheist, not because of science and probabilities and all that stuff, well not mainly anyway but because I find the idea of a God repulsive, bad things happen in the world, really bad things and I've seen people try to justify it with "God has a plan" or some other bullshit like that, which is fine if it comforts them but quite frankly it makes me sick, mostly because the world is unfair, bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people all the time (often leading them to be even worse), and well it's that simple it's unfair and though it sucks I can accept the harsh unfairness of the world when it's simply what it is, just the world being cold and unfair because that's just what it is, but when you involve God and "fate" or "destiny" or whatever, then it's just fucking sick, why does this person gets cancer and is miraculously cured and this other person gets the same and prays just as much and works just as hard, etc. but they get to die? Why? What kind of bullshit excuse is there? Does it simply like the other person more or what?!
I don't know it makes me sick, to be honest if God existed I wouldn't be able to deal with the world, I've seen bad things, really bad things but I can accept them because the world is cruel and unfair and there is no reason as to why good things and bad things happen, they just do, or if they do it merely amounts to being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time, or it's the consequence to the actions that you and the people around you (including those that you do not know) made, not because of some superior, immortal, omnipotent being manipulated the results to further it's own mysterious agenda.
Eh... It just makes me sick, I would elaborate but there's a reason I chose Cancer as an example and it's not really something that I feel like talking about.
Comments
And from such a point I would have to actually agree. I find it fascinating how we, as humans, tend to see the success of something and try yielding it to our own gain. It's sad to see people twist the spiritual of things simply for self-conceited goals. Self-justification is always a tricky aspect of conviction as well--all in search to justify our actions.
I see you point definitely from the aspect of using religion to control. First thing that came to my mind would the film "Book of Eli". And that leads me to another question for discussion: would you say the errancy of "religion" then would be on God's part or man's? Or is the approach of religion just foolish from the start?:) thank you for your response, by the way
I see religion as explaing things we did not know back then.
Its much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic.
Now I think people take it too seriously now and days, I think people use God now and days to make themselves feel better, however then there are assholes like the Westboro Baptist Church.
This is another Voltaire song, if you dont mind listening, its about religion aswell.
Voltaire
Haha, sooo much depth in two of your comments. Very well put: "people use God nowadays to make themselves feel better." I feel as though a theme is being carried on through both of Voltaire's songs you have shared (and both were very intriguing). Would I be correct then in stating that "God has let man down"? That is at least the vibe I am getting from Voltaire: that a God is there, just disappointing, distance, and distrusted.
As for Westboro Baptist Church--that would go back into the whole "using religion to fuel your following". I am not a fan of Scripture being taken out of context and over-exaggerated. Which leads me to another point you mentioned: "It's much easier saying God did something back then, than using logic." Might you elaborate more? I realize also that in the first song "God thinks" even Voltaire mentions that "God thinks everything that science gave us is wrong." What are you thoughts and how would you explain?
For the first thing, in both of the songs he doesnt show distrust towards God. In the first song he was explaing how people who use God to get what they want and how thats bad. Voltaire is an Agnostic singer so that can explain his views. Near the end of the first song he says God is not good nor bad, God is you and me, God is everything. This is saying that God is neutral and that we all have part of the ability to change things. The second song is truly just explaing that people use God as a tool and if God exists he must be ashamed but isnt doing anything about it which makes him seem...Not truly there.
Secondly, back in the middle ages science was almost non existant for the people. They lived in a strange world they didnt understand. Back then everyday was a fight to survive so it was easier to just claim God and be content surving, when our lifespans increased, we started questioning everything including God.
Thirdly, thats just another claim by some religious people, not Voltaire's view.
my god, thats horrible, i hope that never happens to my beloved grandpa
I hope so too
Take good care of him!
Thanks man, he have had a few problems in the past years, but nothing serious. Recenly he was scanned for cancer, and they didnt find anything
Just for a sec i thouught it was a serious song.
Its an enjoyable song though.
I don't think there are many of them.
Oh, and here's a very interesting read on a people who have a knack for forgetting to die:P http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/magazine/the-island-where-people-forget-to-die.html?pagewanted=all
And just out of curiosity, how would you define science? And for you personally, how would you define or depict God?
I don't think so either, although I saw that a Satanist group is handing out Satanist kids' activity books in response to a pro-religion court case ruling in Florida. I took a look at the book, which they'd posted, and there was almost nothing about Satanism, with a lot of stuff about making up your own mind and being respectful of others.
No religion myself (the family's totally mixed: Wiccans, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, anything you can think of, except Satanists, and no FSM followers yet either).
yeah i know. Im not a satanist myself, but i have read a shit ton off stuff about them. And they are in no way the "evil satan worshippers" that other people want us to believe, they have very little about Satan in their religion, their religion is mostly about other values than christian values, whereas christians think that all people should be forgiven and be able to go the heaven, satanists doesn't think that good things should happen to bad people, so instead you can only get to "heaven" if you have been a good man/woman.
i think satanism are a very interesting religion (especially if you have spent so many years in school reading about the most common religions)
I haven't done a study on Satanists yet, but the first thing that came to my mind from the whole "being a good man/woman" was yet another religion I studied a while back called Zoroastrianism--another one I seem to hear little of nowadays. It seems a lot of people seem to think if your good outweighs your bad, then you should make it alright:P
Christian, my mother is really religious, so without her prayers and hard-work we wouldn't able to survive for 17 years.
I miss you peaceful religious thread!
I bring you back!
And the forum said:
"Let there be a thread revival!"
Here's a question:
Why do there have to be so many religions? It would be a whole lot easier if there was just one (or none at all.)
After the countless wars, the people looked in amazement at sanctuary. Where opinions can be said and accepted.
This is offtopic, but I love your ImmortalHD profile picture
Because different people believe different things :P
Smiles sheepishly
True enough.
Thanks XD
Haha, it is rather weird isn't it? I can't help but think of the song "Belief" by John Mayer. Maybe it's because we often try using religion to obtain our own means to an end? I know for me, its disappointing to see Christianity turning into a "melting pot of religions" for the most part. But as Mayer put, everyone's trying to get everyone to turn from their belief to another's. But that's if you're taking the point of view that "my religion is better than yours".
Roman Catholic.
It would be easier if everybody spoke one language. It's just how things are I guess.
Great and peaceful thread I shall resurrect you and bring thou to thy people of the Forums!
jesus on the streets, satan in da sheetz
I'm am disappointed in these Forums...
Months ago we could place our opinions on here without being judged, I would brag about how even though we argue about the game we are pleasant about Religion. Now...I'm disappointed, we upvote anybody what is on our side we don't even read their argument. Months ago we would read the conversation, we would support the person with the better stance, not just the person with the same religion. We insult the other religions or other beliefs, then say we are the better person for just apologizing for such an act. I enjoy going back to this thread and remembering some of the good people we had...
shrek is love shrek is life
That isn't what is happening at all. A few certain individuals have decided to try and shoot down a certain opposing opinion that a number of other people share. These people are defending their viewpoints. They aren't arguing that their viewpoint is right, only that they have a reason to believe in what they do.
yea i'm catholic but i don't take it that seriously
I have read every single comment on that thread...it's disappointing for both sides. You may be doing that but not everyone.
I don't think the thread was as bad as people are saying. We did get heated pretty fast, but for the most part, not that many people were blatantly insulting each other, despite being on different sides. (excluding you know who and a couple other people.) I can understand why it was closed though, we went waayyy off topic lol.
I am seriously tired of so many threads in the walking dead forum becoming a religious debate. I wish people could just respect peoples beliefs and just continue with the discussion that is actually at hand, it's usually just that one individual (who I won't name but I'm sure most of you know who I am talking about) that starts it all with his mindset of "anyone who is religious is ignorant, and my world view is right and yours is wrong." But I'm seriously sick of that. People like that should be banned, or at least warned for doing things like this. It isn't respectful or needed in anyway.
That person's been banned a few times already. Always comes back though(unfortunately).
Yup I've noticed
no
rapist on the streets, butt in da sheetz.
Maddi our TownButtRapist.
This sounds like an awful idea because I like to stay neutral and generally be nice and polite not to mention that I'm 100% on board with tolerance and I always try to promote them but... Fuck it.
I'm an atheist, not because of science and probabilities and all that stuff, well not mainly anyway but because I find the idea of a God repulsive, bad things happen in the world, really bad things and I've seen people try to justify it with "God has a plan" or some other bullshit like that, which is fine if it comforts them but quite frankly it makes me sick, mostly because the world is unfair, bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people all the time (often leading them to be even worse), and well it's that simple it's unfair and though it sucks I can accept the harsh unfairness of the world when it's simply what it is, just the world being cold and unfair because that's just what it is, but when you involve God and "fate" or "destiny" or whatever, then it's just fucking sick, why does this person gets cancer and is miraculously cured and this other person gets the same and prays just as much and works just as hard, etc. but they get to die? Why? What kind of bullshit excuse is there? Does it simply like the other person more or what?!
I don't know it makes me sick, to be honest if God existed I wouldn't be able to deal with the world, I've seen bad things, really bad things but I can accept them because the world is cruel and unfair and there is no reason as to why good things and bad things happen, they just do, or if they do it merely amounts to being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time, or it's the consequence to the actions that you and the people around you (including those that you do not know) made, not because of some superior, immortal, omnipotent being manipulated the results to further it's own mysterious agenda.
Eh... It just makes me sick, I would elaborate but there's a reason I chose Cancer as an example and it's not really something that I feel like talking about.
I call myself Atheist or Agnostic.
I don't know if you can call this a religion, but this is the philosophy I live with
Thank you for reading