Do choices matter? Telltale advertises this as a selling point, but isn't it false advertising?
himmatsj
Banned
I have been playing TT's games since TWD S1 like many people. I've gotten all of them at launch. One thing that grates me more than anything else, is that TT has persisted in advertising "your choices matter" even though everyone who has played all their games would know that this is pure BS.
Do they not know, that what they're saying basically amounts to false advertising?
I sincerely believe their games have decent stories as it is, but I vehemently disagree with needing to sell the game on a premise that is fallacious and incorrect at best.
Yes, your decisions can make slight differences. Yes, you can change the attitude of people around you to some extent (although even this has been less prevalent post-TWDS1). Yes, you can choose to save a character, but that character always dies in short time anyways, or is rendered as a background character.
But, ultimately you cannot influence the "story" as their store page descriptions claim. "Big decisions" are always an illusion. They make the unsuspecting gamer think that they have influenced the outcome of the story, when in truth that is far from the case.
For Game of Thrones, they claim: "You will take on the role of different members of the Forrester household, and determine their fate through the choices you make; your actions and decisions will change the story around you."
What do you make of this? Do you think Telltale should remove said selling point from their store pages on all platforms?
PS: My apologies for creating this thread on a new account earlier. This account of mine has been dormant for over 6 months, and I had TFTB registered on that newer one already. Reposting since I was told to come back to this account.
Comments
If someone brought this to court they would be laughed out at best, and at worst have the judge come at them for wasting the courts time.
Honestly this topic is moot, the game does change due to your choices, but it does not change dramatically. TTG has every right to market the game as they do. Its not a lie or in any way malicious. If that not something you care for, seek your entertainment elsewhere.
It's as simple as yes choices matter just not the way you expect.
If you chose to save the fellow squire at the start, he runs off with you and helps his lord fight to the death.
If you don't he dies right there.
That was a choice. He either died on the spot or he died later but it was still a choice and consequence.
"The story is tailored by how you play" No it's not. Like game of thrones. Tons of choices that have no consequences. And I don't believe what you did will matter. I am sorry to say but Telltale are just very lazy about choices. They make very very very small consequences to your choices. For the first time someone play a telltale game they will be like "great a game that will take in count my actions and that will change the story by thoses choices. So great." And when you replay the game you know that is total BS. I am tired of people defending them. And avoiding that topic. the thing they are bad at in these games are the consequences of your so called "tailored choices"
Well maybe you should find forum entertainment elsewhere. Because I am fairly certain here on the TTG boards, you will find no lack of people willing to defend them. The game does change due to your choices, its as simple as that. Do they have deep a long ranging consequences, no, I wish they did, but they don't. And to continue to expect them to is simply foolish.
You try writing a story where one choice makes the story split into two and then those two split into more different stories, while having 4 - 8 weeks (estimate) to write, program, animate and record sounds for each episode. In addition, you're going to have to keep each of the stories cohesive and of a high standard. Heck, try doing it for a simple text-based adventure and without a strict time limit. You'll never finish, plus if you somehow do, many gamers probably won't see the content you've created. This is why games/interactive stories have broad story arcs, while minor details change.
You don't realise how much work it is and how impossible it is for Telltale to do in the amount of time they have (yes, a solution is to take longer, but people already complain about the wait, plus it'd still be hard to pull off). Or the budget they have, as I imagine they don't have the same funds as the big companies, or the same staff count. And in this 1st episode alone, quite a few callbacks to previous choices are made. Minor dialog alterations and such, but it counts. Not to mention the preview for episode 2 seems like it'll alter depending on choices made.
And yep, I'm quite snippy. Getting tired of the complaints, as I feel people are having unrealistic expectations. Nevermind the fact that many AAA games have the same issue.
Okay let me explain something to you from a guy who tried to make a Text Based Adventure Game, with decisions. No graphics, voice actors, no heavy expenses, other games, etc. Just me and that game. It takes a lot of damn work, and this is coming from someone who had one that had four endings. So much so it contributed to me not wanting to do it anymore, as the choices branched off sending the story into a mess.
Imagine trying to do that with more choices, expenses, voice actors, a team of developers, animators, modellers, coders, publishers, etc. It would be impossible. Not only that,t hey clearly say. "The story tailors to your choices"
So imagine this. You're sitting in a room, a wooden table next you and on that wooden table is a piece of fabric. You skim your hand on the piece of fabric, touching every detail and feel great as you feel the soft fabric.
Now that represents a typical enjoyable video game.
Telltale gives you a piece of fabric, but with a sewing needle and other colours and types of material. Each time you rub along, occasionally you have to sew new bits of material. Some make the fabric better and soft, others rough and calloused. You put it there, but in the end it stays the same. A piece of fabric.
Fabric is the base game, the sewing needle and other materials you sew on are you making choices, and you can either make the fabric "base game" more easy for you with your choices and soft like the fabric, or uncomfortable with difficult choices and calloused like the fabric. In the end though, it is still the same piece of fabric "base game".
Get it now?
Thankyou. People don't realise how much work and such it would take to do what they want.
Exactly. It's one thing to wish for the choices to have a greater effect, but to expect it? It's unrealistic and, if you've played Telltale's games before, quite stupid to expect that as you should know what you're getting yourself in for.
Ok whatever. I am not saying their game is bad. Just I'd wish that the choices had more impact cause replaying a telltale games game is really boring to me. Cause when you get past the story there is nothing else there. You aren't missing anything cause you didn't make a specific choice. Replaying them are a waste of time and hope. When I saw all the choices in game of throne I was so happy. I was thinking maybe they have put more changes. But telltalegames are all about illusion of choices. But that is normal that they don't advertise that. They wouldn't say. "this game will have many choices. And you will feel you have an impact in it. When you really don't. Don't replay the game for max entertainement."
Demonarke,
What you just said, 'just I'd wish that the choices had more impact', is totally fine. What I took exception to was you calling them lazy.
It's totally fine as well that you find it boring when replaying the games. It possibly just means their games aren't for you, which is also fine. So, it might just be best to stay clear of Telltale's games in the future.
But again, I do have to stress that plenty of AAA games only have the illusion of choice, where only minor details change. It's unrealistic to expect broad story changes. So few games manage it. The Witcher 2 and Alpha Protocol deserve props in this regard.
Now this is in general, not to you:
People need to realise it's fine to buy a game, complain once or twice to make your voice heard. But what you should do then is move on . . . the topic creator is a perfect example of this. What you certainly shouldn't do is continue to rant and rave about it, or keep buying products when it is expected that you'll dislike them.
At the end of the day as well, people need to realise that their opinions aren't fact and that everyone likes different things. If people realised that, everyone would get along much better online.
Excuse me ? I love telltale games they are almost the only games I play. But instead of dumbly complimenting them. I Say that I am not happy about the illusion of choice. But like I said. I absolutely love telltale game and I hope they do well in the futur. I will always play their games.
You liking their games didn't come across in your post, though I acknowledge you said you weren't calling their games bad.
But . . . if you've played their games before, then you should know how things are. It's fine to wish for more, but . . . anyway, I assume you just play their games once and that is probably the best way for some people to play.
Anyway, I'm the first to say I wish for choices to matter more than they do, but . . . I also know how hard it is to achieve. And I'm honestly happy in this regard when it comes to GoT. I didn't feel Wolf and TWD: Season 2 managed it nearly as well. But I'll have to play those games again, as my opinion may change. (I only played each episode once, as they released, so . . .)
If Deus Ex was a person, it would look at you with this "Are you serious?"-look on his face.
And I'm talking about 2001-Deus Ex here.
Your choices do matter, just on a smaller scale than you imagine.
Tailored is how something is sewen together. It doesn't majorly change the outfit, but it's still unique, and makes it special.
People need to stop complaining about this, this was just the first episode. I would actually prefer for my choices to make an impact in later episodes when I'm not expecting it rather than just a few minutes after I make said decision in the episode (unless they're one to make that decides who lives and who dies, et cetera).
Oh, it's you himmatsj. You're that guy on steam who always threatens legal action against Telltale. You've been banned from multiple episodic Steam forums. Anyway, have a good stay.
I don't think they can really sue them for that, and in TWD S2E5, your choices really mattered, not the whole season but it's something
Haha, have fun with that legal action pal...I mean...Losing a court case.
In TWDS2, the ending was only determined by the choices you made towards the end of that particular episode.
They're still choices that mattered, i just whish they made that more often
It would be impossible. For the ending, they probably created 5 sets of 10 minutes content for the different endings. Now imagine if this was done earlier...say in EP1. They would need to create divergent content for much, much longer and it would eat into their resorces.
Choices don't seem to matter at all. The game goes in a singular line whatever you pick. I would go as far as say it's not even worth to replay the games, at least in my opinion.
Oooooh yes. It's a shitton of work. If you wanted Telltale to make games were your choices matter really much, then expect a Episode every half a year at best.
The way to think about it is that the story will always happen in a pretty specific way. But like each game says, the choices you make allow you to tailor the story to how you want.
I'll use The Wolf Among Us as an example (Because that's the most recent TT game I've poured time into). Bigby will always investigate specific deaths and always go to relatively specific locations. Bigby will inevitably face off against The Crooked Man by episode 5 and The Crooked Man will be dealt with one way or another by the end of episode 5. It happens like this because this is the story Telltale is telling us.
But! I can pick what sort of person I want Bigby to be. Maybe he's a loose cannon who tears off arms, beats up walking toads and generally is a massive tool. Maybe he's more pragmatic and tries to do the best job possible. Maybe he starts off a lunatic who tortures a prisoner but by the end is taking a more diplomatic approach. The player chooses how they want this to play out and the game reacts to you. It won't change mind you, but the game will bend to you within reason and even though you'll always face The Crooked Man in episode 5, you have the ability to alter the story to something you personally want to see.
Telltale games are less of a "choose your own adventure" system but more of a "mold the sort of character you want to take on this adventure".
Now, granted, this isn't a perfect system, but I think Telltale is well within their rights to say things like "your choices matter" or whatever because they do! But we're just the players and Telltale are still the storytellers and if they want playable character X to die horribly at the end of episode 1 then at least I got to shape the kind of person I wanted playable character X to be before they met their horrible fate.
Rob_K; this answer is completely beside the OP's (and mine) point. He says: if it's not in the game, then don't advertise it is!
I didn't reply to the OP. I replied to Demonarke. The lazy comment irked me as it didn't seem like the poster knew how much work was involved in really making choices matter.
And no, it's not beside the OP's point. I'm not going to debate this anymore because I'm quite frankly tired of doing so, but minor things change, thus choices do change how things play out. They just don't change things as much as you, I or others wish for. To expect major changes is totally unrealistic, especially from the 1st episode of 6 because it would lead to multiple stories for each upcoming episode and then major branches from those episodes . . . ? It snowballs.
Consider this my last reply, as I'd promised myself I wouldn't reply to anymore complaints. It's just wasting my time really, and that of those who read said replies, as no-one's views will really be swayed if we're honest.
And if we're to condemn Telltale, we should condemn plenty of others really. The most we should ever expect are minor changes because that's realistic while hoping for more.
Choices matter...The thing is that it can't change canon. While it's not worth to replay it is however to play.
I'll just post a scene from my TWD Season 2 Rewrite (not an original scene but still important to my rewrite, and I liked how it was made so I kept it the way it was)
POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED WALKING DEAD SEASON 2 EP 1
----------------------- IN CABIN (SARAH'S ROOM) ~~~ [CUTSCENE]
Clem opens the door and sees who looks up, both gasps in surprise. Sarah puts her book on the pillow and scootches forward, telling Clem nervously she's not supposed to be here.
A) Don't make a sound, okay? (Sarah asks what Clem wants, she wants her help.)
C) Don't tell anyone or ELSE! (Clem is aggressive scaring Sarah who says she just wanted to be friends) ~Sarah will remember that.
D)... (Sarah says it's the only spot with enough light to read, asks Clem to not to tell her Dad)
Sarah tells Clem she's not supposed to talk to Clem, her dad can't know.
A) What are you reading? (Sarah suspicious 'a book', Clem says she likes books, Sarah smiles and explains what the book is about, Clem says 'Cool.')
C) Help me, I won't tell him. (Sarah hesitates and is unsure)
D)... (Clem frowns, Sarah looks at her awkward)
Sarah notices her bloody sleeve and asks what happened. Clem tells her it was dog, Sarah says it sounds scary and bets it hurts.
A) You want to see it? (Sarah is nervous and asks it really wasn't a walker, Clem confirms. Sarah says okay and get up to look, Clem shows it and Sarah is grossed out, sits down and explains she needs to bandage it like her dad does, Clem explains what she needs, Sarah thinks and decides to help. Clem thanks her with a smile.) ~Sarah will remember that.
C) Your dad didn't care. (Sarah says that's not true, Clem asked if Carlos let others died before when he didn't help, Sarah replies she doens't know. She is silent for a moment but decides to help.) ~Sarah will remember that.
D) ... (Sarah thinks with an awkward look but says she'll help. Clem thanks her with a smile.)
Sarah will introduce herself with a smile.
A) Hi, there. (Clem says with some discomfort. Sarah smiling)
C) Shouldn't you be in bed? (Sarah says it's the only spot with enough light to read, asks Clem to not to tell her Dad she stood up)
D) ... (awkward silence. Clem is uncomfortable. Sarah smiling)
Clem looks to the side until Sarah gets up and says they're friends, Clem turns to look in surprise. Sarah says it's hard to be the only girl, Rebecca is too old, once the baby grows up Sarah would be too old.
A) Yes, we're friends. (Clem says with a nervous smile, Sarah asks 'Promise?', saying it's importance for friends to be true to each other.)
1)I said yes. (Clem angrily says, Sarah says that's not a real answer with impatience in her face) ~Sarah will remember that.
1/1) I promise. (Clem sighs, Sarah is happy and signals for a pinky swear.)~Sarah will remember that.
1/1/Pinky) (Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
1/1/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
1/2) I can't. (Clem apologizes. Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
2)I can't promise. (Sarah asks why with a sad look, Clem says something bad may happen between them. Sarah says fine. Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)
3) I promise. (Sarah is happy and signals a pinky swear)~Sarah will remember that.
3/Pinky)(Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
3/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
4) ... (Clem makes a shy look. Sarah gets it, disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
1)Fine. But I warned you. (Sarah is happy and signals the pinky swear)~Sarah will remember that.
1/Pinky) (Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
1/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
2)No, I'm sorry. It's not honest. (Sarah asks why with a sad look, Clem says they can't. Sarah says fine. Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)
3)Okay, friends. (Sarah is happy and signals the pinky swear)~Sarah will remember that.
3/Pinky) (Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
3/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
4)... (Clem makes a shy look. Sarah gets it, disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
C) We're not the same age. (Sarah says she's fifteen, asks Clem how old she is. Clem replies younger, Sarah says she doesn't seem like it. Clem says it how it is. Sarah asks they can friends with enthusiasm.)~Sarah will remember that.
1)No. (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
2)Yes. (Sarah's happy and signals the pinky swear.)~Sarah will remember that.
2/Pinky) (Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
2/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
3)Eventually (Sarah says that's not a real answer. Sarah says she won' tell her dad but won't help, mad. Clem says 'wait' quickly, Sarah asks if it's a yes.)
3/Yes) (Sarah's happy and signals the pinky swear.)~Sarah will remember that.
3/Yes/Pinky) (Sarah says a pinky swear is forever. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
3/Yes/NoPinky) (Sarah is disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
3/No (Sarah is disappointed. She changes her mind, asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
4)... (Clem makes a shy look. Sarah gets it, disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes) ~Sarah will remember that.
D)... (Clem makes a shy look. Sarah gets it, disappointed. She asks if she helps she'll be left alone. Looks for cleaning bottle, gives it to her, Sarah tells Clem to find a safe spot to do it, Clem leaves and thanks Sarah who hushes)~Sarah will remember that.
I think from that you can just see how much work it was. This took me approximately an hour and a half to type, but it was a big headache. Besides it's says choices are tailored. And it's VERY difficult to do a lot of branching within one or 2 months.
I agree with you, the "lazy" comments irk me too, when most people have no clue what's involved with producing these games. It's just disrespectful IMO.
Hey HarjKS. I still respect you for making the effort. I love the Text Based Adventure Game, you made.
Well, firstly, I think it is far too early to determine how our choices affect things, if at all. Only one episode is passed here, and it is possible that we will have more effects upon the story line later.
But, secondly, choices in games almost never make a real huge difference, they simply provide the player with some level of influence on the story they are a part of. Even big decisions, that have major consequences right away, often lead to a singular path later on. It is a necessity of the narrative, as otherwise the developers would have to take every possible choice in, and make vastly different endings to accommodate every choice. Did you tell Ryon he could eat all the sweets he wants if he is lord? If he doesn't become a fat little glutton now that you are dead, does that mean your choice was totally pointless?
Think, if you will, of other choice driven games, like Mass Effect. Did you save the council, or let them die? While either choice makes some small narrative changes, and tailors the story based on your decision, ultimately the grand fate of the galaxy wasn't decided any differently from, what was set up as, a major choice in the first game.
Extra Credits did a great video on this about a year ago that I remember watching. You might enjoy it.
I agree that our choices do not impact the story as much as Telltale suggests. They do move a bit in the gray-zone, if someone want to be picky about sticking to the truth. However it is advertisement, which is simply an euphemism for commercialised lying. You surely not going to tell me you belive any of the stuff they tell you on TV? So strictly speaking, you're right. But do you really want to use your time bothering about such details instead of simply enjoying a superb told story packed in a game? I actually would be happy to have more choice-based branches in the story, but I do recognize that this would require much more effort in order to keep up the story quality, which is insanely good with Telltale. This again would have to be paid via the price and I assume most gamers can't affort to spend a 100 euro on one game. (I actually would do for an extended Telltale game)
So very short "yes you're right, but why bother if the end-product is great?"
Envy meter: 100000000000000000 XD
You will put all what you will do in some page or something like that?
I love TTG, but that's just false advertising. Your choices mean nothing in their games. They aren't like bioware.
I will admit that when I purchased this series, I was under the impression my choices would have more impact. I just didn't think it through logically. I just wish I had read this post before I replayed the game several times, since I figured I had made a terrible mistake in choosing my Sentinal. This is the first game of its kind that I've ever played, and even though I thought the choices would have more impact, it was still fun. Like watching a movie that's more like a dream - some control ... But not total. I don't think I'll replay future episodes, and I'll probably be more brutal in the future ... No more Mr Nice Guy. But I must say, Duncan sure loses it if he doesn't get chosen as Sentinal ..... Big baby.
oh it seems you have found your way here now great just don't bring that i'm gonna take telltale to court bullshit here because it isn't gonna happen ever no matter what you say and don't get all mad at the hard truth because it will get you banned like it did on the steam forums the mods here aren't lazy like the steam ones they will ban you the second you act the way you did on twd and twau forums anyway you are right about the choices they don't really matter well at least in twd s2 they didn't, they sort of in their other stuff BUT it is way to early to even say anything about game of thrones yea the things in episode 1 lead to the same outcome but we don't know if what we did will have any effect later (most likely not but still it is too early to tell)
They don't mean nothing. They do have an affect on your game experience.
I'm hoping that as they make more games, they'll find a way for choices to matter more.
Not at all. All paths lead in the same exact direction. They give you the illusion that the story is changing, but you always end up in the same spot.