No, I am saying that nothing you do in the game affects the overall story that's being told. That's just a fact. You always end up in the same place/predicament.
The sad thing is that it seems the opposite is happening. TWD S1 was a good start. Choices (and relationships) mattered there to some extent, even if the overall story could not be changed.
Then with TWAU and TWD S2, Telltale seemed to have dropped the ball. Choices matter much less.
And now we have TFTB and GOT, and judging both by their premiere episodes, they seem even more railroaded.
Okay, I don't agree and that wasnt my point either. We all know that it's telling a particular story so it's going to more or less follow one path but your decisions do affect how the game plays for you. Just the act of having to make decisions affects how you feel playing the game. I agonized over my decisions because I knew that it was going to come into play in the later episodes, I just don't know how yet. That's just as valid as having a bunch of branching storylines that go in 20 different directions but might not actually amount to much.
No, I am saying that nothing you do in the game affects the overall story that's being told. That's just a fact. You always end up in the same place/predicament.
I actually believe that the choices in GoT will matter more.
The Cersei/Margaery choice is obvious, just changes your relationship with the characters, same with asking Margaery for help, more focused on the relationship between Mira and Margaery than anything else.
I have a theory on how the Bowen choice could relate to Rodrik(if Rodrik is alive, then I'm guessing it will be a scenario where him, Norren, and Bowen have been captured, and if Bowen is alive, maybe he'll help in one part during an escape)
Choosing a Sentinel seems to be an important choice as well, it will be a while before either Asher, or, possibly, Rodrik make it back to Ironrath, so I assume things will change depending on who is in charge.
The choice concerning Erik also seems important to the long term(people are angrier, people feel they can do what they want, etc.), but if you freed him, the execution on the reactions was "messy" at best, especially when Ryon asks you if he was a bad man, and you have the choice to say that he had to be punished.... when, in fact, he was not punished at all. So... That was bad.
The final choice seems to have had little to no impact, I'll agree with you on that. It's especially awkward if you choose to fight. I did that on a second playthrough, and they still try to be diplomatic! Really Telltale? Really? The gates were closed! What's the explanation of how they got in since this time, I didn't invite him in.
The sad thing is that it seems the opposite is happening. TWD S1 was a good start. Choices (and relationships) mattered there to some extent… more, even if the overall story could not be changed.
Then with TWAU and TWD S2, Telltale seemed to have dropped the ball. Choices matter much less.
And now we have TFTB and GOT, and judging both by their premiere episodes, they seem even more railroaded.
You agonized over the decisions, but what difference did they make? None. It's hard to continue to sweat decisions that you know don't change anything in the long run. I am not trying to just crap on TTG, I love their stuff.
Okay, I don't agree and that wasnt my point either. We all know that it's telling a particular story so it's going to more or less follow on… moree path but your decisions do affect how the game plays for you. Just the act of having to make decisions affects how you feel playing the game. I agonized over my decisions because I knew that it was going to come into play in the later episodes, I just don't know how yet. That's just as valid as having a bunch of branching storylines that go in 20 different directions but might not actually amount to much.
Well, he got a quick ban on the TFTB forums, though he was just causing quite a lot of ruckus, claiming you needed to know Borderlands before, even though most people understood it easily. Yeah, his "drag Telltale to court" threads were hilarious.
oh it seems you have found your way here now great just don't bring that i'm gonna take telltale to court bullshit here because it isn't gon… morena happen ever no matter what you say and don't get all mad at the hard truth because it will get you banned like it did on the steam forums the mods here aren't lazy like the steam ones they will ban you the second you act the way you did on twd and twau forums anyway you are right about the choices they don't really matter well at least in twd s2 they didn't, they sort of in their other stuff BUT it is way to early to even say anything about game of thrones yea the things in episode 1 lead to the same outcome but we don't know if what we did will have any effect later (most likely not but still it is too early to tell)
I understand that with their current model it's not economical for them to make wildly branching paths. But I think one thing we can all agree on is that they can do a better job of hiding it, or of being more expressive. Sometimes moments like Doug or Carly in TWD, that just slapped you in the face with it. Other times it's slightly less obvious. I didn't even think about a few determinant death scenes in season 2 til afterwards for example.
Some of the last few choices felt pointless, but I don't think it was an accident. It was supposed to be a big shock how everything shook out, and it was a really bad situation. I felt like I was making moves when talking to Cersei, I felt like the Bowen made me feel guilty, I felt like taking the fingers was a big moment in that character's life. Just a matter of expression right?
No, I am saying that nothing you do in the game affects the overall story that's being told. That's just a fact. You always end up in the same place/predicament.
You agonized over the decisions, but what difference did they make? None. It's hard to continue to sweat decisions that you know don't change anything in the long run. I am not trying to just crap on TTG, I love their stuff.
You agonized over the decisions, but what difference did they make? None. It's hard to continue to sweat decisions that you know don't change anything in the long run. I am not trying to just crap on TTG, I love their stuff.
I want to list down every choice that mattered, but it would take a while.
The fact is the ending for each game is different and we have seen major decisions go through to each Season, it doesn't exactly change the course of the story for the whole season but it does for a period of time and changes some peoples' perspectives on the situation and or character.
Why are you acting like GoT is going to suddenly have a different formula. I played TWAU and TWD. Guess what? All playthroughs lead in the same direction.
It was one choice at the very end of the game. Your choices in episodes 1-4 altered nothing about the ending of episode 5.
Guess what...TWD season 3 is going to start off the same way no matter what ending you had in season 2. That's just how predictable TTG is and I am not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. TTG just needs to stop pretending that choices matter.
and..? Who is arguing otherwise? My only point is that your decisions mean absolutely nothing when you get right down to it. So I don't see where you were trying to go with this comment.
Your argument is that it doesn't matter because it doesn't change the outcome. From this position you can infer that you don't think anything but the outcome matters which is untrue. If you make a decision in episode 2 and it only effects episode 3 and 4 it still matters just not as far as the ending is concerned. Basically what I am saying is that you are using a very narrow definition of what matters.
and..? Who is arguing otherwise? My only point is that your decisions mean absolutely nothing when you get right down to it. So I don't see where you were trying to go with this comment.
No, you are making assumptions about my point of view. I well aware that there are many different parts to a story, but they don't matter when they all lead the the same destination. Of course I appreciate the journey there, why would I be playing TTG otherwise? That was a poor attempt to invalidate my opinion.
Your argument is that it doesn't matter because it doesn't change the outcome. From this position you can infer that you don't think anythin… moreg but the outcome matters which is untrue. If you make a decision in episode 2 and it only effects episode 3 and 4 it still matters just not as far as the ending is concerned. Basically what I am saying is that you are using a very narrow definition of what matters.
I always hate it when people completely miss the point and are so rude in the process of doing so. I'll spell it out for you. when you say 'they don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.'. You are unambiguously stating that the value of the choices (how much they matter) is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. In doing so you you are indeed diminishing the value of the 'journey'. If you truly think there is value in the journey then you would have not unambiguously stated that any change in it is unimportant (doesn't matter).
No, you are making assumptions about my point of view. I well aware that there are many different parts to a story, but they don't matter wh… moreen they all lead the the same destination. Of course I appreciate the journey there, why would I be playing TTG otherwise? That was a poor attempt to invalidate my opinion.
No, I am not unambiguously sating anything. That's your preconceived notion and it's a false one. Clearly you just like to paint everything in a broad stroke like some hack politician. We are making different points, I didn't miss yours at all. It just isn't what I am arguing. The Journey is important in its own way, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a big deal when everyone is getting to the same destination. That's my only point. You are free to disagree with it.
I always hate it when people completely miss the point and are so rude in the process of doing so. I'll spell it out for you. when you say '… morethey don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.'. You are unambiguously stating that the value of the choices (how much they matter) is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. In doing so you you are indeed diminishing the value of the 'journey'. If you truly think there is value in the journey then you would have not unambiguously stated that any change in it is unimportant (doesn't matter).
And ? You basically said that no choice whatsoever has any influence on the game, which is plain false. And let's be serious, you expected small choices that were made back in Episode 1 to have any sort of influence 5 episodes later ? There weren't that many "grave" choices in TWD to begin with, you expected that 1 sentence would change everything up until a special Ending ? Stop being delusional. The only thing I see atm is that we have various Endings depending on choices we make. No false advertisement whatsoever in my book.
The Witcher 2 EE had 10+ Endings, Wild Hunt is still gonna start at a common point for everyone. Don't act like this is some sort of norm that TTG should abide to when pretty much every single game (with the same marketing) ever does the same.
Fact of the matter is, choices do matter, it's just that they don't have as much repercussions as you'd like them to. If you believe none of the choices made in TWD, be it by Lee or Clem matter, then let me tell you that you kind of missed the whole point of the game, hard.
It was one choice at the very end of the game. Your choices in episodes 1-4 altered nothing about the ending of episode 5.
Guess what...T… moreWD season 3 is going to start off the same way no matter what ending you had in season 2. That's just how predictable TTG is and I am not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. TTG just needs to stop pretending that choices matter.
I didn't say it's what you are arguing. It is what logically follows from what you are arguing. When you make a argument you have premises and sometimes those premises imply something that you have not explicitly stated or necessarily even believe. Yes when you say that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' you are indeed stating that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. If it were otherwise you would say something like 'they matter less when they all lead the the same destination.'
In reality what matters is mostly subjective when it comes to degree however it is hard to argue that a choice doesn't matter at least in some respect when it has a consequence. The telltale choices do have consequences whether they be a change in ending or a couple of different lines of dialogue.
'No, I am not unambiguously stating anything.' I think that's a self-contradicting statement.
No, I am not unambiguously sating anything. That's your preconceived notion and it's a false one. Clearly you just like to paint everything … morein a broad stroke like some hack politician. We are making different points, I didn't miss yours at all. It just isn't what I am arguing. The Journey is important in its own way, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a big deal when everyone is getting to the same destination. That's my only point. You are free to disagree with it.
I think it's ultimately down to their release schedule. If they spent a lot more time planning and making the game the choices could have a lot more impact though their current 10-12 week release schedule doesn't give them enough time to have the choices make much impact. Maybe it would if they had an additional team for each alternative path but then it would keep branching outwards over the course of the 5-6 episodes depending on the game before eventually becoming almost uncontrollable and a big, choicey mess.
Really can't agree there. While it is true that Season 1 choices mattered more, they really didn't have a big impact.
Basically, in TWD (both Seasons), there was 'Do A' or 'Do B' as a choice system. The illusion of choice though worked much better in Season 1.
In TWAU, there were sometimes up to 3 options. A good example being where to investigate first. You get whole different hubs, and can even miss clues this way. Also a good example is the fate of The Crooked Man. You can give him no trial at all, just killing him. You can kill him in 3 different ways, and you can spare him aswell.
Now, with Tales from the Borderlands, Telltale even has a currency (with Fiona) in one of their new games. And the money can actually be used to persuade others or to buy things. There is also a greater connection to the surroundings due to Rhys' scan eye.
And in Game of Thrones, you are forced to make hard decisions from the start. Insult Lord Whitehill or try to be diplomatic? Ask Margaery for help or not? Only if you ask her, you can steal from her etc. There are also bigger and better hubs that actually don't feel out of place (Ironrath).
So, you still shouldn't expect anything major to change. That's just not how Telltale Games work. You are in for a mostly good story, with a little influence, and it is a good ride for itself. The illusion of choice is actually handled way better in Telltale's newer titles since TWD Season 2.
The sad thing is that it seems the opposite is happening. TWD S1 was a good start. Choices (and relationships) mattered there to some extent… more, even if the overall story could not be changed.
Then with TWAU and TWD S2, Telltale seemed to have dropped the ball. Choices matter much less.
And now we have TFTB and GOT, and judging both by their premiere episodes, they seem even more railroaded.
No, I didn't basically say anything. I said point blank that your decisions have no real impact on your overall story. That's a fact. You will always end up in the same location, doing the same exact thing. Your only defense was, "oh well TWD season 2 can end in different ways". My counter point is that it's inconsequential, because TWD season 3 will start off the same exact way for everyone.
I can't believe you brought up something as epic as the Witcher series to make a (poor) point about TTG. Now there is a dev that they should be taking notes from.
No, they don't matter. Feel free to have a different opinion, it makes no difference to me. Yes and you missed the whole point of my argument, HARD.
And ? You basically said that no choice whatsoever has any influence on the game, which is plain false. And let's be serious, you expected s… moremall choices that were made back in Episode 1 to have any sort of influence 5 episodes later ? There weren't that many "grave" choices in TWD to begin with, you expected that 1 sentence would change everything up until a special Ending ? Stop being delusional. The only thing I see atm is that we have various Endings depending on choices we make. No false advertisement whatsoever in my book.
The Witcher 2 EE had 10+ Endings, Wild Hunt is still gonna start at a common point for everyone. Don't act like this is some sort of norm that TTG should abide to when pretty much every single game (with the same marketing) ever does the same.
Fact of the matter is, choices do matter, it's just that they don't have as much repercussions as you'd like them to. If you believe none of the choices made in TWD, be it … [view original content]
See once again you're coming at me with this, "oh well this is totally what you're saying" angle. No, you are putting words in my mouth. The fact that you can't understand that is sad.
What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? lmao. OMG! Clem ate jerky instead of an apple! INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't say it's what you are arguing. It is what logically follows from what you are arguing. When you make a argument you have premises a… morend sometimes those premises imply something that you have not explicitly stated or necessarily even believe. Yes when you say that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' you are indeed stating that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. If it were otherwise you would say something like 'they matter less when they all lead the the same destination.'
In reality what matters is mostly subjective when it comes to degree however it is hard to argue that a choice doesn't matter at least in some respect when it has a consequence. The telltale choices do have consequences whether they be a change in ending or a couple of different lines of dialogue.
'No, I am not unambiguously stating anything.' I think that's a self-contradicting statement.
I am not putting words in your mouth I am telling you what your words mean. I am not even using inference at this stage i am literally just deconstructing your sentences. What is really sad is how you can state that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' and not hold the position I stated 'that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending.' That is a serious case of cognitive dissonance. One sentence literally means the other. It's like if I stated 'I think apples are more tasty than any other food' and then rejected the claim that 'I think other foods are less tasty than apples.' Just because I never spoke the second sentence doesn't mean it can't be inferred.
'What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? ' Oh easy most dialogue options directly effect the immediate response, TWaU would have different scenes depending on where you go, this game had only your sentinel of choice join you for your final scene. All consequences that are by no definition illegitimate.
See once again you're coming at me with this, "oh well this is totally what you're saying" angle. No, you are putting words in my mouth. The… more fact that you can't understand that is sad.
What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? lmao. OMG! Clem ate jerky instead of an apple! INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Telling me what my words mean? How about you try and listen and hear them instead. This pseudo-intellectual garbage like, "I am literally just deconstructing your sentences" is getting you nowhere. No you aren't breaking down anything. You are simply twisting my words to serve your side of the argument. It's just one assumption after another with you.
TWaU had you go to the same places regardless of where you went first. It was the equivalent of, "hey kids, do you want cake before ice cream...or ice cream before cake...?" Yet that is your example of a legitimate consequence? Look up the definition of consequence and then get back to me. As for your second example. what changed? Ethan gets killed and your Sentinel does nothing.
I am not putting words in your mouth I am telling you what your words mean. I am not even using inference at this stage i am literally just … moredeconstructing your sentences. What is really sad is how you can state that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' and not hold the position I stated 'that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending.' That is a serious case of cognitive dissonance. One sentence literally means the other. It's like if I stated 'I think apples are more tasty than any other food' and then rejected the claim that 'I think other foods are less tasty than apples.' Just because I never spoke the second sentence doesn't mean it can't be inferred.
'What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? ' Oh easy most dialogue options directly effect the immediate response, TWaU would have different scenes depending on where you go, this game had only your sentinel of choice… [view original content]
That depends what the context of 'matter' is. Matter as in every single choice makes a totally different game, or matter as in matter to the player as they make them? Because every choice I make sure matters to me the first time I play through.
I'm no fanboy but this isn't some EA sized company, and even their "choices" are pretty crap. At least TTG offers compelling ones initially even if you don't have a lot of sway in what happens. They more or less took Bioware's schtick and improved it tenfold, even though it seemed to maintain some of the longterm shortcomings.
You could look at it as though you're a time traveler observing events, some things are simply set in a way and little can be done to change them. If you watch Doctor Who refer to 'fixed points'.
I didnt say that at all. I think I already said that we know the games follow a certain path. They have to to create a coherent story. Im saying its too early after one episode to say that your decisions arent going to have any impact on the story.
Why are you acting like GoT is going to suddenly have a different formula. I played TWAU and TWD. Guess what? All playthroughs lead in the same direction.
I think what makes TTG different from other games is that they heavily emphasise on 'tailored choices'. Most of its games are not action based or graphically demanding games. Therefore its only attracting point is the story development. We as gamers just try to be involved in the story developing as much as possible after all we paid quite an amount for the game and if the choices we made has little impact then might as well we just watch the game from Youtube. But I do think we shall give it more time and see if our choices are making any impact in the coming episodes (they still have 5 more episodes to improve on it anyway)!
I think it's ultimately down to their release schedule. If they spent a lot more time planning and making the game the choices could have a … morelot more impact though their current 10-12 week release schedule doesn't give them enough time to have the choices make much impact. Maybe it would if they had an additional team for each alternative path but then it would keep branching outwards over the course of the 5-6 episodes depending on the game before eventually becoming almost uncontrollable and a big, choicey mess.
'TWaU had you go to the same places regardless of where you went first.' Same place different scenes. 'Yet that is your example of a legitimate consequence?' Yes it is a consequence and a illegitimate consequence makes about as much sense as a illegitimate raisin. So yes it is a legitimate consequence.
'As for your second example. what changed?' dialogue.
'It's just one assumption after another with you.' Heh. Name one assumption I have made. Actually you know what don't. If you don't understand what your own words mean I don't have much confidence you know what a assumption actually is.
Telling me what my words mean? How about you try and listen and hear them instead. This pseudo-intellectual garbage like, "I am literally ju… morest deconstructing your sentences" is getting you nowhere. No you aren't breaking down anything. You are simply twisting my words to serve your side of the argument. It's just one assumption after another with you.
TWaU had you go to the same places regardless of where you went first. It was the equivalent of, "hey kids, do you want cake before ice cream...or ice cream before cake...?" Yet that is your example of a legitimate consequence? Look up the definition of consequence and then get back to me. As for your second example. what changed? Ethan gets killed and your Sentinel does nothing.
I ran headlong into this problem in Walking Dead Season One, Episode 2 when I was asked if I wanted to go to the dairy farm. There's no way I'm not going to the farm, don't give me this choice. Establish a proper group leader (who isn't Lee) and have me voice my concerns to them, but take that decision away from me.
I don't mind when the game has me make decisions that shape who my character is, such as Lord Ethan's choice of Sentinel in Game of Thrones Episode 1. I wasn't under any kind of delusion that things wouldn't land 95% the same no matter what choice I made, but I felt like I was shaping a character and his relationships with other characters... while being swept up in the tide of events far beyond my control.
But the constant churn of characters in The Walking Dead meant there wasn't any way to form a lasting bond with anyone other than Clem and Kenny... but the game tries to shoe-horn a choice between Kenny & Lily, which doesn't have any positive pay-off if you choose Lily, and I imagine it makes the narrative awkward if you choose to alienate Kenny since he's obviously put there for you to bond with. I was watching a "everything wrong with Season Two" video where they point out all the times you're forced to talk with Kenny... even if you hate his guts.
It's like the choices in The Walking Dead are too extreme. It's too life and death and it's impossible for the game to deliver on that promise, whereas I can be really off-putting to Snow in The Wolf Among Us but that's on an emotional level. I played that game as brutally as possible and I really liked how my actions put a strain on our relationship. She still needed me, still believed in me, but my interactions with her felt like I was severely trying her patience. If this was Walking Dead, they'd probably make me choose between Snow and Bluebeard... even though Bluebeard is clearly an antagonist. I can still act in a way that Bluebeard approves of (and I frequently did), but the underlying antagonism was always there.
I'm sure there's lots of moments in Game of Thrones, Wolfe Among Us, and Tales From The Borderland which are utterly false choices, but very few jumped out at me on the first playthrough. With the Walking Dead, these false choices were blindingly obvious all the time. If I can't have a meaningful long-term friendship with Carley, why give me the option to save her? The game practically rubbed my nose in how meaningless my decision was. I never felt like that with the other games.
You could look at it as though you're a time traveler observing events, some things are simply set in a way and little can be done to change them. If you watch Doctor Who refer to 'fixed points'.
Being a Who fan, I approve of this analogy.
I personally liken it to be an actor. The major beats of the story have already been determined and all I can do is determine how those scenes play out. A large part of my enjoyment is the game-within-the-game where I attempt to stay in character no matter what's thrown at me. Each character reacts different. Lord Ethan was unsure of himself and his diplomatic approach quickly led to a more militaristic one because he was afraid no one took him seriously. Gared is honest and honorable to a fault, willing to abandon his friend for the chance to save his Lord. Mira recognizes that feigned weakness is a strength and must juggle a number of alliances. Ashur is charming, witty, and hot-headed... always quick with a joke, insult, or blade. Rodrick is so confident, he's relatively unconcerned with showing weakness, happily leaning (literally) on the women in his family.
That depends what the context of 'matter' is. Matter as in every single choice makes a totally different game, or matter as in matter to the… more player as they make them? Because every choice I make sure matters to me the first time I play through.
I'm no fanboy but this isn't some EA sized company, and even their "choices" are pretty crap. At least TTG offers compelling ones initially even if you don't have a lot of sway in what happens. They more or less took Bioware's schtick and improved it tenfold, even though it seemed to maintain some of the longterm shortcomings.
You could look at it as though you're a time traveler observing events, some things are simply set in a way and little can be done to change them. If you watch Doctor Who refer to 'fixed points'.
Well for one its not a selling point. Its a warning posted at the start of the game to help you engage the story. To be honest most choices really dont matter at all in game.
For Game of Thrones, they claim: "You will take on the role of different members of the Forrester household, and determine their fate through the choices you make; your actions and decisions will change the story around you."
>
What do you make of this? Do you think Telltale should remove said selling point from their store pages on all platforms?
If by the end of episode 6 the fate of House Forrester is altered based on the decisions made by me throughout the duration of the game then, yes, I think I would be "determining their fate through the choices I make". I don't know whether they will or will not make this happen, but until the end of episode 6 I don't think Telltale games should be accountable for this... I bought the game (and so did you) under the impression that this will happen, so in my view it's not constructive to criticise them for something they haven't done yet.
It's not like they said "EVERY DECISION YOU MAKE WILL HAVE INSTANT CONSEQUENCES AND YOUR STORY WILL BE ULTIMATELY SHAPED BY YOUR ACTIONS" (or, I'm lead to believe they didn't say this anyway).
For Game of Thrones, they claim: "You will take on the role of different members of the Forrester household, and determine their fate throug… moreh the choices you make; your actions and decisions will change the story around you."
>
What do you make of this? Do you think Telltale should remove said selling point from their store pages on all platforms?
If by the end of episode 6 the fate of House Forrester is altered based on the decisions made by me throughout the duration of the game then, yes, I think I would be "determining their fate through the choices I make". I don't know whether they will or will not make this happen, but until the end of episode 6 I don't think Telltale games should be accountable for this... I bought the game (and so did you) under the impression that this will happen, so in my view it's not constructive to criticise them for something they haven't done yet.
It's not like they said "EVERY… [view original content]
Comments
So you're saying that nothing you do in the game affects your experience? Whatever choices you make have no impact on how you feel playing the game?
No, I am saying that nothing you do in the game affects the overall story that's being told. That's just a fact. You always end up in the same place/predicament.
The sad thing is that it seems the opposite is happening. TWD S1 was a good start. Choices (and relationships) mattered there to some extent, even if the overall story could not be changed.
Then with TWAU and TWD S2, Telltale seemed to have dropped the ball. Choices matter much less.
And now we have TFTB and GOT, and judging both by their premiere episodes, they seem even more railroaded.
Okay, I don't agree and that wasnt my point either. We all know that it's telling a particular story so it's going to more or less follow one path but your decisions do affect how the game plays for you. Just the act of having to make decisions affects how you feel playing the game. I agonized over my decisions because I knew that it was going to come into play in the later episodes, I just don't know how yet. That's just as valid as having a bunch of branching storylines that go in 20 different directions but might not actually amount to much.
I actually believe that the choices in GoT will matter more.
The Cersei/Margaery choice is obvious, just changes your relationship with the characters, same with asking Margaery for help, more focused on the relationship between Mira and Margaery than anything else.
I have a theory on how the Bowen choice could relate to Rodrik(if Rodrik is alive, then I'm guessing it will be a scenario where him, Norren, and Bowen have been captured, and if Bowen is alive, maybe he'll help in one part during an escape)
Choosing a Sentinel seems to be an important choice as well, it will be a while before either Asher, or, possibly, Rodrik make it back to Ironrath, so I assume things will change depending on who is in charge.
The choice concerning Erik also seems important to the long term(people are angrier, people feel they can do what they want, etc.), but if you freed him, the execution on the reactions was "messy" at best, especially when Ryon asks you if he was a bad man, and you have the choice to say that he had to be punished.... when, in fact, he was not punished at all. So... That was bad.
The final choice seems to have had little to no impact, I'll agree with you on that. It's especially awkward if you choose to fight. I did that on a second playthrough, and they still try to be diplomatic! Really Telltale? Really? The gates were closed! What's the explanation of how they got in since this time, I didn't invite him in.
You agonized over the decisions, but what difference did they make? None. It's hard to continue to sweat decisions that you know don't change anything in the long run. I am not trying to just crap on TTG, I love their stuff.
Well, he got a quick ban on the TFTB forums, though he was just causing quite a lot of ruckus, claiming you needed to know Borderlands before, even though most people understood it easily. Yeah, his "drag Telltale to court" threads were hilarious.
I understand that with their current model it's not economical for them to make wildly branching paths. But I think one thing we can all agree on is that they can do a better job of hiding it, or of being more expressive. Sometimes moments like Doug or Carly in TWD, that just slapped you in the face with it. Other times it's slightly less obvious. I didn't even think about a few determinant death scenes in season 2 til afterwards for example.
Some of the last few choices felt pointless, but I don't think it was an accident. It was supposed to be a big shock how everything shook out, and it was a really bad situation. I felt like I was making moves when talking to Cersei, I felt like the Bowen made me feel guilty, I felt like taking the fingers was a big moment in that character's life. Just a matter of expression right?
A story is more than a ending......
Walking Dead Season 2 says hi, various Endings depending on your choices.
Depending on choices you made in he last 10 mins of EP5, more like it. The choices you made before that have no bearing on the ending.
We haven't seen it yet because its only been one episode. Good grief! A little patience.
I want to list down every choice that mattered, but it would take a while.
The fact is the ending for each game is different and we have seen major decisions go through to each Season, it doesn't exactly change the course of the story for the whole season but it does for a period of time and changes some peoples' perspectives on the situation and or character.
Why are you acting like GoT is going to suddenly have a different formula. I played TWAU and TWD. Guess what? All playthroughs lead in the same direction.
It was one choice at the very end of the game. Your choices in episodes 1-4 altered nothing about the ending of episode 5.
Guess what...TWD season 3 is going to start off the same way no matter what ending you had in season 2. That's just how predictable TTG is and I am not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. TTG just needs to stop pretending that choices matter.
Well...it looked like a Walking Dead Season 1, you could end up with a lot of different parties, from barely anyone to a large group
and..? Who is arguing otherwise? My only point is that your decisions mean absolutely nothing when you get right down to it. So I don't see where you were trying to go with this comment.
Your argument is that it doesn't matter because it doesn't change the outcome. From this position you can infer that you don't think anything but the outcome matters which is untrue. If you make a decision in episode 2 and it only effects episode 3 and 4 it still matters just not as far as the ending is concerned. Basically what I am saying is that you are using a very narrow definition of what matters.
No, you are making assumptions about my point of view. I well aware that there are many different parts to a story, but they don't matter when they all lead the the same destination. Of course I appreciate the journey there, why would I be playing TTG otherwise? That was a poor attempt to invalidate my opinion.
I always hate it when people completely miss the point and are so rude in the process of doing so. I'll spell it out for you. when you say 'they don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.'. You are unambiguously stating that the value of the choices (how much they matter) is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. In doing so you you are indeed diminishing the value of the 'journey'. If you truly think there is value in the journey then you would have not unambiguously stated that any change in it is unimportant (doesn't matter).
No, I am not unambiguously sating anything. That's your preconceived notion and it's a false one. Clearly you just like to paint everything in a broad stroke like some hack politician. We are making different points, I didn't miss yours at all. It just isn't what I am arguing. The Journey is important in its own way, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a big deal when everyone is getting to the same destination. That's my only point. You are free to disagree with it.
And ? You basically said that no choice whatsoever has any influence on the game, which is plain false. And let's be serious, you expected small choices that were made back in Episode 1 to have any sort of influence 5 episodes later ? There weren't that many "grave" choices in TWD to begin with, you expected that 1 sentence would change everything up until a special Ending ? Stop being delusional. The only thing I see atm is that we have various Endings depending on choices we make. No false advertisement whatsoever in my book.
The Witcher 2 EE had 10+ Endings, Wild Hunt is still gonna start at a common point for everyone. Don't act like this is some sort of norm that TTG should abide to when pretty much every single game (with the same marketing) ever does the same.
Fact of the matter is, choices do matter, it's just that they don't have as much repercussions as you'd like them to. If you believe none of the choices made in TWD, be it by Lee or Clem matter, then let me tell you that you kind of missed the whole point of the game, hard.
I didn't say it's what you are arguing. It is what logically follows from what you are arguing. When you make a argument you have premises and sometimes those premises imply something that you have not explicitly stated or necessarily even believe. Yes when you say that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' you are indeed stating that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending. If it were otherwise you would say something like 'they matter less when they all lead the the same destination.'
In reality what matters is mostly subjective when it comes to degree however it is hard to argue that a choice doesn't matter at least in some respect when it has a consequence. The telltale choices do have consequences whether they be a change in ending or a couple of different lines of dialogue.
'No, I am not unambiguously stating anything.' I think that's a self-contradicting statement.
I think it's ultimately down to their release schedule. If they spent a lot more time planning and making the game the choices could have a lot more impact though their current 10-12 week release schedule doesn't give them enough time to have the choices make much impact. Maybe it would if they had an additional team for each alternative path but then it would keep branching outwards over the course of the 5-6 episodes depending on the game before eventually becoming almost uncontrollable and a big, choicey mess.
Really can't agree there. While it is true that Season 1 choices mattered more, they really didn't have a big impact.
Basically, in TWD (both Seasons), there was 'Do A' or 'Do B' as a choice system. The illusion of choice though worked much better in Season 1.
In TWAU, there were sometimes up to 3 options. A good example being where to investigate first. You get whole different hubs, and can even miss clues this way. Also a good example is the fate of The Crooked Man. You can give him no trial at all, just killing him. You can kill him in 3 different ways, and you can spare him aswell.
Now, with Tales from the Borderlands, Telltale even has a currency (with Fiona) in one of their new games. And the money can actually be used to persuade others or to buy things. There is also a greater connection to the surroundings due to Rhys' scan eye.
And in Game of Thrones, you are forced to make hard decisions from the start. Insult Lord Whitehill or try to be diplomatic? Ask Margaery for help or not? Only if you ask her, you can steal from her etc. There are also bigger and better hubs that actually don't feel out of place (Ironrath).
So, you still shouldn't expect anything major to change. That's just not how Telltale Games work. You are in for a mostly good story, with a little influence, and it is a good ride for itself. The illusion of choice is actually handled way better in Telltale's newer titles since TWD Season 2.
No, I didn't basically say anything. I said point blank that your decisions have no real impact on your overall story. That's a fact. You will always end up in the same location, doing the same exact thing. Your only defense was, "oh well TWD season 2 can end in different ways". My counter point is that it's inconsequential, because TWD season 3 will start off the same exact way for everyone.
I can't believe you brought up something as epic as the Witcher series to make a (poor) point about TTG. Now there is a dev that they should be taking notes from.
No, they don't matter. Feel free to have a different opinion, it makes no difference to me. Yes and you missed the whole point of my argument, HARD.
See once again you're coming at me with this, "oh well this is totally what you're saying" angle. No, you are putting words in my mouth. The fact that you can't understand that is sad.
What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? lmao. OMG! Clem ate jerky instead of an apple! INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not putting words in your mouth I am telling you what your words mean. I am not even using inference at this stage i am literally just deconstructing your sentences. What is really sad is how you can state that choices 'don't matter when they all lead the the same destination.' and not hold the position I stated 'that choices value is wholly dependent upon their effect on the ending.' That is a serious case of cognitive dissonance. One sentence literally means the other. It's like if I stated 'I think apples are more tasty than any other food' and then rejected the claim that 'I think other foods are less tasty than apples.' Just because I never spoke the second sentence doesn't mean it can't be inferred.
'What choice ever had any legitimate consequence in a TTG? ' Oh easy most dialogue options directly effect the immediate response, TWaU would have different scenes depending on where you go, this game had only your sentinel of choice join you for your final scene. All consequences that are by no definition illegitimate.
Telling me what my words mean? How about you try and listen and hear them instead. This pseudo-intellectual garbage like, "I am literally just deconstructing your sentences" is getting you nowhere. No you aren't breaking down anything. You are simply twisting my words to serve your side of the argument. It's just one assumption after another with you.
TWaU had you go to the same places regardless of where you went first. It was the equivalent of, "hey kids, do you want cake before ice cream...or ice cream before cake...?" Yet that is your example of a legitimate consequence? Look up the definition of consequence and then get back to me. As for your second example. what changed? Ethan gets killed and your Sentinel does nothing.
That depends what the context of 'matter' is. Matter as in every single choice makes a totally different game, or matter as in matter to the player as they make them? Because every choice I make sure matters to me the first time I play through.
I'm no fanboy but this isn't some EA sized company, and even their "choices" are pretty crap. At least TTG offers compelling ones initially even if you don't have a lot of sway in what happens. They more or less took Bioware's schtick and improved it tenfold, even though it seemed to maintain some of the longterm shortcomings.
You could look at it as though you're a time traveler observing events, some things are simply set in a way and little can be done to change them. If you watch Doctor Who refer to 'fixed points'.
I didnt say that at all. I think I already said that we know the games follow a certain path. They have to to create a coherent story. Im saying its too early after one episode to say that your decisions arent going to have any impact on the story.
I think what makes TTG different from other games is that they heavily emphasise on 'tailored choices'. Most of its games are not action based or graphically demanding games. Therefore its only attracting point is the story development. We as gamers just try to be involved in the story developing as much as possible after all we paid quite an amount for the game and if the choices we made has little impact then might as well we just watch the game from Youtube. But I do think we shall give it more time and see if our choices are making any impact in the coming episodes (they still have 5 more episodes to improve on it anyway)!
on the website it says 4-6 weeks release schedule
'TWaU had you go to the same places regardless of where you went first.' Same place different scenes. 'Yet that is your example of a legitimate consequence?' Yes it is a consequence and a illegitimate consequence makes about as much sense as a illegitimate raisin. So yes it is a legitimate consequence.
'As for your second example. what changed?' dialogue.
'It's just one assumption after another with you.' Heh. Name one assumption I have made. Actually you know what don't. If you don't understand what your own words mean I don't have much confidence you know what a assumption actually is.
I ran headlong into this problem in Walking Dead Season One, Episode 2 when I was asked if I wanted to go to the dairy farm. There's no way I'm not going to the farm, don't give me this choice. Establish a proper group leader (who isn't Lee) and have me voice my concerns to them, but take that decision away from me.
I don't mind when the game has me make decisions that shape who my character is, such as Lord Ethan's choice of Sentinel in Game of Thrones Episode 1. I wasn't under any kind of delusion that things wouldn't land 95% the same no matter what choice I made, but I felt like I was shaping a character and his relationships with other characters... while being swept up in the tide of events far beyond my control.
But the constant churn of characters in The Walking Dead meant there wasn't any way to form a lasting bond with anyone other than Clem and Kenny... but the game tries to shoe-horn a choice between Kenny & Lily, which doesn't have any positive pay-off if you choose Lily, and I imagine it makes the narrative awkward if you choose to alienate Kenny since he's obviously put there for you to bond with. I was watching a "everything wrong with Season Two" video where they point out all the times you're forced to talk with Kenny... even if you hate his guts.
It's like the choices in The Walking Dead are too extreme. It's too life and death and it's impossible for the game to deliver on that promise, whereas I can be really off-putting to Snow in The Wolf Among Us but that's on an emotional level. I played that game as brutally as possible and I really liked how my actions put a strain on our relationship. She still needed me, still believed in me, but my interactions with her felt like I was severely trying her patience. If this was Walking Dead, they'd probably make me choose between Snow and Bluebeard... even though Bluebeard is clearly an antagonist. I can still act in a way that Bluebeard approves of (and I frequently did), but the underlying antagonism was always there.
I'm sure there's lots of moments in Game of Thrones, Wolfe Among Us, and Tales From The Borderland which are utterly false choices, but very few jumped out at me on the first playthrough. With the Walking Dead, these false choices were blindingly obvious all the time. If I can't have a meaningful long-term friendship with Carley, why give me the option to save her? The game practically rubbed my nose in how meaningless my decision was. I never felt like that with the other games.
Being a Who fan, I approve of this analogy.
I personally liken it to be an actor. The major beats of the story have already been determined and all I can do is determine how those scenes play out. A large part of my enjoyment is the game-within-the-game where I attempt to stay in character no matter what's thrown at me. Each character reacts different. Lord Ethan was unsure of himself and his diplomatic approach quickly led to a more militaristic one because he was afraid no one took him seriously. Gared is honest and honorable to a fault, willing to abandon his friend for the chance to save his Lord. Mira recognizes that feigned weakness is a strength and must juggle a number of alliances. Ashur is charming, witty, and hot-headed... always quick with a joke, insult, or blade. Rodrick is so confident, he's relatively unconcerned with showing weakness, happily leaning (literally) on the women in his family.
Do not take this guy seriously. He trolls every TellTale game on the Steam forums and he's been banned from them all. Just let this thread die.
Well for one its not a selling point. Its a warning posted at the start of the game to help you engage the story. To be honest most choices really dont matter at all in game.
You cant file a lawsuit over it.
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If by the end of episode 6 the fate of House Forrester is altered based on the decisions made by me throughout the duration of the game then, yes, I think I would be "determining their fate through the choices I make". I don't know whether they will or will not make this happen, but until the end of episode 6 I don't think Telltale games should be accountable for this... I bought the game (and so did you) under the impression that this will happen, so in my view it's not constructive to criticise them for something they haven't done yet.
It's not like they said "EVERY DECISION YOU MAKE WILL HAVE INSTANT CONSEQUENCES AND YOUR STORY WILL BE ULTIMATELY SHAPED BY YOUR ACTIONS" (or, I'm lead to believe they didn't say this anyway).
I agree with what shellturtleguy said above, but touching on your post, Britisher:
If only more people were as sensible as you.