To everyone who picked a certain sentinel...
A lot of people here picked Royland, a guy who wanted to do battle with Lord Bolton, or considered taking Ramsay hostage or even killing him.
I can only assume these folks haven't watched the show or especially read the books. Once the Northern Rebellion was put down and Lord Bolton made Warden of the North, anything remotely resembling insurrection against Bolton by a Northerner would incur the fury of Tywin Lannister himself.
The Forresters' only prayer of salvation lay in prostrating themselves before Bolton just as every other Northern house had to do, and to count on Tywin's political calculations not to upend the hierarchy of bannermen by displacing ancient noble houses. Tywin showed himself only inclined to do so if a particular House refused to bend the knee. While Ramsay might have his own ideas on that front, Ramsay ultimately answers to Roose, and Roose ultimately answers to Tywin. Ramsay can't actually make these calls on his own in a way that would upset Dad or Daddy Lannister.
Royland is not only NOT a steady hand at the till. He's nuts. First off, House Forrester is outnumbered 5-1 by the Whitehills alone, to say nothing of the Boltons. But outnumbered or not, threatening to take up arms against Ramsay Snow would have been beyond suicide. It's madness. Even if House Forrester could resist Ramsay for a little while (and they couldn't), taking up arms against him would have brought the wrath of Tywin down upon the Forresters. Killing or imprisoning Ramsay would have been even worse. Not a man, woman or child would have survived, noble or smallfolk. The Forresters would have been wiped to extinction like the Reynes of Castamere.
Now, it's entirely possible that nothing could have saved Ethan because Ramsay is just that diabolical. So be it. But it's wiser to try to assuage the mad bastard than to guarantee destruction by Roose, Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey. Royland should frankly have been demoted or sent to the Wall for merely suggesting such a thing.
Comments
I didnt pick him for that reason, I was picking him for his advice not his whole plan.
I piked him due to
"can only assume these folks haven't watched the show or especially read the books"
That's rather abrupt, I've read the books and I still picked Royland. It's also highly unfair of you to call it the correct choice, I'm starting to question if you've actually read the books as Stannis is showing up in the North soon enough, and several of the Northern Houses swear fealty to him and he actually builds up quite a large force. Also, they wouldn't incur the wrath of the Lannisters, they're having enough trouble getting the Riverlords to Surrender- that takes them another year after the Red Wedding. Also, if I'm to quote a Dance with Dragons: "Forrester Huntsman joined up and guided Stanni's Baratheons host". There's a lot of bitter resentment to the Lannisters, Freys and Boltons amongst the Northern Houses- why do you think 1,000 deserters from Northern Houses just show up and join him? Royland was the right choice in my opinion and I'm going to stand by it, diplomacy and sucking up to Ramsay won't get you anywhere, he's crazy and even if you're nice to him you get no nice treatment.
That's quite a time after the Red Wedding. Not even Wyman Manderly dared to oppose Bolton openly.
You have it backwards. Wyman's power makes him less likely not more likely to openly oppose Roose. The likes of Roose and Tywin are only concerned with those who actually hold significant power. If Wyman were to show signs of defiance they would have to shut him down or risk rebellion but a minor knight under a minor house isn't even worth considering.
My thinking was that Ramsey Snow does as he pleases and very rarely listens to reason nor negotiation.
The Forrester's need someone to lead men, and at that time (before Ethan was killed) I had decided Ethan was inexperienced and didn't know how to fight, but needed someone at his side who did. At least Royland tries to save you.
The reason why I picked Royland was to keep him loyal and have a strong man by my side. Royland command the respect of the remaining Forrester soldiers and he has doubt on Ethan's leadership at the beginning, should I anger him any further, I thought he would either rebel or desert with all the soldiers.
I read the books and watch the show and I picked Royland. I felt like Duncan was too soft and was likely to realize it would be time to pick up the sword too late for their own good.
I do still think Royland is a bit impulsive, which is why I wanted the Maester. He was the perfect mix of both men. But since he wasn't, I'd rather have an army ready to fight with Royland than just some negotiations that were gonna fall with Duncan.
And I'm not sure but did Lannisters' or Freys' have Manderly's son as captive? So he is not going to risk his life?
Royland wasn't the Castellan...
You should change the title to... "To everyone who picked a certain Sentinel..."
I CHOSE DUNCUN. only because ethan's father ONLY trusted him with a thing that ONLY he knows, and must mean something... also duncan said to his nephew Garred that ''the groove must not fall'' is going to save this house in the future! and he told me to be a ranger! in the wall! so i chose him because ethan's father trusted him for a reason.
REMEMBER that duncan knows something that the rest of house forrester doesnt. and ONLY him can save this house in the future. it was a risky move of me but i trusted ethan's fathers judgment. and he trusted him for a reason
You're getting Duncan and your uncle confused... Lol
Actually Duncan is his uncle.
Yeah I realized that xD
meant garred and his uncle duncan. just remembered garred's name.
It's Gared but yeah, I was just on your side.
XD
It's all good, we forget things.
And I would add that, as it was presented, the idea was to pick a main advisor.
If I am to do so, I don’t need someone that will mostly advise me in a way I already think. I was already a “peace rules”, so I needed a military advisor to bring me different points of view.
It isn't really fair to suggest that a player has a right choice in the matter, or should be advised by any real source material beyond the game. I considered everything from the point of view of how I was designing Ethan to be, not my background knowledge of the show. Ethan was feeling vulnerable, and scared, but he couldn't portray that before the people. So, he put up a front of being tough, even though it was obviously a false front. That's why I put the guards out as a show of force, but invite Snow into my Grand Hall. I don't want to antagonize him, but I want to project to everyone that I really am the Lord of Ironrath.
Also, as a player, I wanted to pick Duncan, because he knows about the North Grove. But, if I am playing from the POV of Ethan, Ethan knows nothing about the North Grove. What he does know is that Duncan sent Gared away without consulting him, which made him look weak to the Whitehills. Royland is the choice to make for trying to appear strong. In fact, Royland said it best when he said you have to project strength, especially when you are weakened.
done. you're right, thanks.
No problem, we make mistakes.
By the way I picked Duncan because he was more cunning and wiser.
I picked Royland because Duncan seemed a bit like the 'doormat' option. I didn't want to bend over backwards for Ramsay but I didn't want to outright attack him either. By choosing Royland I kept him happy but I could also keep him under control as Ethan.
I do regret doing it now because he has full control of the House, but I doubt much will change compared to if you pick Duncan. Illusion of choice and all that.
I picked Royland because House Forrester is going to need tough leadership if they are going to survive this season. Allowing yourself to be walked on is going to get you killed even faster, because the Boltons/Whitehills will know how weak you are. Weakness = Death.
It just sounds like you desperately need to justify your own choice. I've read the books and watched the show, so there isn't anything you are telling me about ASoIaF or GoT.
there's a difference between tough and stupid. It's not so much justifying my choice as astonishment that anyone would make the other choice.
Projecting a slightly weaker front might get you killed, yes. But rattling your saber and making war against the new Warden of the North after the Red Wedding isn't strength, but total suicide.
Well there's dozens of small and large families. Many of which will not bend the knee. And outside interlopers won't be of great aid to the Boltons in the North during the winter. The show points out how the Lannisters give no fucks. And while the Boltons are the largest force currently in the North, there's a lot of people who will never forgive them, and they have a lot of fires to put out.
Presumably there will be some wiggle room for some of those families in this generally uncertain time. Those that are strong enough to resist, and those that are too unimportant to deal with. Presumably the Forresters are getting extra attention, due to the fact that A they are disproportionately wealthy due to their Ironwood and B they are sworn enemies of the Whitehills, loyal Bolton Bannerman, who are calling in all favors to get the Boltons to take a keen interest in fucking with the Forresters.
That's why Ramsay showed up so quickly after the Red Wedding to deal with second tier Stark cronies, rather than staying at home and raping people, or actively poking someone more important. Almost every northern family lost important family members and were lessened by the Red Wedding.
It was the ultimate FU to the the North. Not just the deaths, but how they happened. Many families will die out before the bend and the Forresters may well be one of them. It's a situation that can bounce a bunch of different ways, where bending the knee or being dicks are both options that won't necessarily work out. That's why it's so fun!
Even if you pick Royland, Duncan will still be the Castellan and a loyal follower of House Forrester. It's not like the North Grove is lost if you don't choose him, he can still save the house.
After pondering about it for a while i decided to go with Duncan Tuttle as my sentinel. I talked to everyone i was able to talk to in-game and it was after i'd talked to Malcolm that i made my choice. If Malcolm brings Asher home from Essos we'd have a reckless fighter who will have the same authority as a sentinel, since he's the lord's older brother. If i picked Ser Royland as my sentinel there'd be no counterweight to Asher's rash decisions and violent nature, they would agree and perhaps end up getting everyone killed by risking all out war with the Whitehils or the Boltons, neither of which House Forrester can handle in open warfare. I reckoned Duncan, with his calm, huile and diplomatic nature would be able to provide some rational thinking to an otherwise reckless person such as Asher. I wanted to pick Ser Royland at first because i doubted his loyalty but i read the codex and he has nothing left but this house, so I don't think he will betray House Forrester.
remember that Royeland and Duncan ''DONT think highly of the other'' as the Maester said! which means that they WONT listen to eachother and plainly dont respect eachother's opinion. and ethans brother 'ASHER'' is knows to be quit the agressive one. so having him and royland will bring the house to destruction!! sometimes it aint fighting people is the right thing to do! considering their situation having NO soldiers to defend them, atleast not with pride...
if you ask royland about how the soldiers are doing, he'll tell you that they cant fight!! so why would he suggest even going forward with a battle they cant win? its reckless and its a suicide mission in my opinion!! i cant respect a man or name him my sentinal if he dont seperates ''PRIDE'' with whats ''REAL AND A FACT''.
and duncan says that if he had the chance he would kill all of them and avenge Rodrik and the King to Garred, and he also said that they are not in the position to do so even if he wants to do it! which is smart.
A Smart Man Knows When To Pick His Battles. duncan proved that to me.
I knew the moment Ramsey was coming, ethan was going to die. From that point I had built up two contingences. 1 being Asher to come back and take over. Now that they think House Forrester is weak this would be a great opportunity to have asher come in and take over. Of course he would take a stance more closer to Royland, but the surprise of that would take them off guard, 2 The northern Grove. Keeping a secret here played out to be a pretty good choice because he's now sentinel.
that is a pretty stupid assumption i picked royland and i watch the show
I picked Duncan too and I agree with what you're saying, btw. I'm just saying I didn't pick him because of his knowdelge of the Grove, as he would still be the Castellan and a member of the small council (I admit I didn't thought of Royland becoming the lord for some player,though. It might make a little more complicated for them.)
I picked Duncan because even though Ethan didn't know, I knew that the last words of his father was directed to Duncan, which I think means that he trusted him most.