Refusing to take your vows
EDIT: Well, based on the trailer it looks like I might have been more accurate in this prediction than I thought.
I've got this scenario in my head for Gared, which I know will never happen, but I still wish it could.
Basically some of the new recruits are being escorted North of the Wall by Frostfinger and Jon to swear their vows in front of a Weirwood tree. Frostfinger says, "Are you ready to take your vows?" and the options come up [Take you vows] or [Refuse].
If you refuse, Gared says something along the lines of "I don't want to be a brother of the Night's Watch. I was just defending my family, when I killed those men. I only came here to escape the Boltons. I wasn't escorted here like a criminal, I came alone and freely, so I should be able to leave."
Then Jon will be like, "There's truth in what you've said, but you told me you were willing to stand by your brothers and fight to protect your house."
Then eventually Frostfinger will say, "All right, then, Gared Tuttle, I'll give you a choice. Either you say your vows now and become a man of the Night's Watch for the rest of your life, or you leave us immediately."
Gared says, "But... we're on the wrong side of the Wall."
"Aye, and don't think you can come back with us. Only brother's of the Night's Watch can use the tunnel. Maybe you'll survive a couple of nights out here. Maybe you'll find shelter. Or Mance Rayder finds you and has a giant rip you in half. But if I ever see you again, I'll assume you've joined the wildlings and kill you myself."
Then it gives you the choice again to [Take you vows] or [leave].
Now here's where the choices can diamond out and back into the same story again.
If you refuse again and leave, you can head off and start looking for the North Grove. Eventually you'll probably run into a Whitewalker or something, see Mance's army and run back to the Wall to warn everyone they're close, despite the consequences, and Jon protects you from Frostfinger.
If you join the Night's Watch, you'll become a ranger and so you'll still go North of the Wall anyway. The other rangers you're with are killed, you get lost and decide to start looking for the North Grove. Eventually, as in the other storyline, you run into a Whitewalker or something, see Mance's army and run back to the Wall to warn everyone they're close. So the storylines converge.
(It would be cool if by refusing, you ended up joining the wildlings, meaning you've basically chosen which side of the Battle of Castle Black you fight on, but that would obviously be too complicated for the game.)
Comments
Seriously though, nice ideas, but this won't happen :P
I think that it is kinda possible ;3
A decision that actually has consequences that last longer than the next few seconds or a line of dialogue later on?
Hahahahahaha. Ha.
Excellent idea; the way you've laid it out makes it possible some of this might happen in a similar way. I can tell you've put some thought into this.
Wow....just wow, I can't help picturing Gared's face when he's told take a walk on the wildling side! It's kinda what I'd imagine Cotter's face would be like if they told him they'd run out of potatoes =p
I think it would be great if they did something like this or similar, unfortunately they probably won't =(.
If only. I understand the problem, but I'm really not sure what the point of these games is if they don't properly make the most of the 'choices' element.
wont happen but it's a very good speculation
The scenario you wrote will work out only if:
1.) Gared dies over the course of the episodes
2.) There will be no sequel (Season 2)
With Gared alive there will be 2 storylines then:
1.) Gared sticking around and protecting the North Grove beyond the Wall
2.) Gared living in the Castle Black but NOT as the member of the Night's Watch (still protecting the North Grove)
It sounds illogical. Why should he refuse if his mission is to protect the North Grove (which means to be located somewhere near it)?
Nah, some of it seems illogical but not all of it. Like the whole wildling thing seems a bit far fetched, but the whole thing about wanting to help House Forrester and deciding to refuse to take your vows and then if you do take your vows and the story lines come together again are not a bad idea IMO. The converging story lines wouldn't affect a Season 2 either, because at the end it's basically the same story.
It's not gonna happen of course, but it's an interesting theory nevertheless that if pulled correctly is logical.
Why shouldn't he refuse his mission? People refuse to do things others make them do all the time. I know the story has forced him to be too honourable to do that, but it's a valid question, if the game is about choice.
Or if you don't like that answer, what about this -
Let's assume the North Grove is indeed a large patch of Ironwood trees in a secret location north of the wall. The question is, what actual good is it to the Forresters? How is it going to save them? They can't exactly move it and replant it at Ironrath to replace the ones they lost. Gared can't chop it all down on his own. It's only worth a fortune if it is utilised, if things are carved and built out of it and sold, but how are they going to do that from the other side of the Wall? How is Gared supposed to protect it anyway? Everyone thinks it's a myth, so no ones looking for it, therefore he doesn't need to protect it from being discovered by the wrong people. It's near impervious to flame, so he doesn't need to protect it from being burnt down. Maybe a Whitehill spy, but that's about it. Otherwise what is he protecting in from? Rogue lumberjacks? Ironbeavers?
I think his actual 'mission' is just to find the North Grove and work out how to use it to save House Forrester. Maybe collect a few seeds, as a back-up plan, so they can start from scratch if they lose everything.
So, with all that in mind, I would assume Gared might sell some of the North Grove to Stannis on behalf of the Forresters (given he has the manpower and resources to make use of it), in exchange for gold and Stannis' protection from the Boltons, leading into season 2. Therefore Gared's mission is over and no longer an issue by that point.
With regards to living at Castle Black, but not as a member, that's basically what all the new recruits are doing. Maybe Gared has just postponed taking his vows, and he does it at the end of the season, thus converging the storylines again. And if the main threat he faces for not taking his vows the first time is Frostfinger, whom Jon keeps at bay, then if Frostfinger dies during the battle, the problem is solved.
Or Gared does die, which actually seems sort of likely to me. The Wall is basically an isolated, dead-end storyline. He can't be part of the 'Save the Forresters' overall objective if he's stuck up there. They might as well kill him off.
In different situation I was inclined to agree, but Duncan said: "become a ranger if you can, this will help". If his duty wasn't connected with the Night's Watch, why should he take the black? Why he just can't give Gared a lot of food, water, warm clothers and supplies with words: "I'll insure you've got anything to travel beyond the Wall, find the North Grove and..." We know that it's possible to reach the other side not only by climbing, it's mentioned in the books that Eastwatch-by-the-Sea catch the wildlings trying to get to the other side on boats. According to the trailer, in Season 5 of Game of Thrones Jon Snow will travel to Hardhome *also *by the sea. So I think if Gared decided to help House Forrester, he *should *take the black, cause he can't just sticking around in the Castle Black as a guest waiting from the orders from Duncan.
Well, that's my point, which is why I'm suggesting the game shouldn't automatically make that decision for you, at least not at first.
Don't forget, Gared's been sent to take the black because he killed some people and the Whitehills were after him, not so that he can find the North Grove. They'd already decided to send him to the Wall for protection before Gared even mentioned the North Grove to Duncan, so it's not a factor in sending him North. It was just by some 'crazy' coincidence (plot device) that Gared was already being sent where he needed to be.
If Gared hadn't killed the Bolton soldier, and just went to Ironrath and told Duncan the message from Lord Forrester, then Duncan might have just told him to go north of the Wall via boat or otherwise like you suggested, but the conflict with the Whitehills got in the way of that.
Duncan just told him to become a Ranger because if he was made a Steward or a Builder he wouldn't be able to go north of the Wall (in search of the North Grove). That's all.
The people who wrote the game only had Gared join the Night's Watch, because that was the easiest way to introduce Jon Snow into the game, and also so that Gared's trajectory would mirror Jon's season 1 show trajectory. It wasn't because it was integral to his mission (finding the North Grove) to join.
Note also, that Duncan said, "I can't tell you anything else yet, just know that the North Grove may be vital the survival of this house."
Why not tell him anything else? Why couldn't he just give Gared instructions, then and there, as to what the North Grove was, how to find it and what to do once he found it? Wouldn't it be logical to give Gared the whole plan, rather than just sending him off oblivious?
This is something called 'Retardation of Information', i.e. holding back plot points and backstory, so that the player has to keep playing in order to reveal secrets and gradually find out what's going on, instead of just explaining it all at the start.
In any case, there's no point in reading into character motivations for specific lines. At the end of the day the characters say the things they say and do things one way instead of another, because that's just how the writers have written them. And sometimes it is illogical when you think about it hard enough, because they weren't trying to be logical, they were trying to come up with a way for Gared to end up where they wanted him to be (in the Night's Watch).
Nice argumentation! The main thing is that Duncan didn't change his mind to send Gared to take the black after he've heard about the Grove (I think it's obvious that a free man with lots of supplies will be more useful than ranger bounded with vows), so I'm inclined to agree with you that Gared's mission to join the Watch looks like a necessary plot device, or like a strange coincidence, at least, So if my theory about the necessity of the Night's Watch is wrong, we've definitely found a plot hole.
Looks like Gared might be considering desertion after all.
Yup. Part of the the description for Episode 3 is -
So perhaps there will be a major choice on whether or not you desert the Night's Watch. Curious how it will play out though
I tried to refuse taking my vows. I kept silent while the others pledged eternal allegiance and found myself very sneaky and cunning. Then the game wouldn't let me move on and I had to recite my vows while the others were listening. It was awkward.