Just how many men can House Forrester and House Whitehill field at this time?
I'm always curious about numbers, as they're pretty important in terms of how strong a house can actually be. Now, House Forrester isn't known for it's army but it's good supply of ironwood to the entire realm, give or take. Now, we know that most of House Forrester's men died at the Twins, if you all remember from the first scene in the episode, there's quite a lot of them around the campsite. The North fielded about 18,000 men during a clash of kings, so I'd say it's at least safe to assume that House Forrester a minor house, would've had around 75-100 men present at the Twins. All of which were killed apart from Gared- we don't know the fates of Bowen (Determined) and Noren.
At Ironrath, I'd say the Forrester's have a garrison of anywhere between 15-25 men in the first episode. Duncan states that the Whitehills outnumber their current number by five to one placing by my estimations Whitehill forces at anywhere between 75-125 men in total around the area. Also, let's not forget Gryff will have no doubt had men with him upon his return from Harrenhall, meaning I'd say the Whitehills could have a maximum levy of 150 men, but not more.
We know after the occupation of Ironrath starts, they're all shocked that twenty-men will be there, this is proof that this either matches the Forrester numbers, or is more than it. As some of their men deserted following the arrival of Whitehill men, I'd say that there's only 8-15 fighting men/guards left for House Forrester. We all know that Malcom, Asher and Beshka are trying to hire 100 men from Croft, which by the looks of things would severely turn the tide. Unfortunately I have no idea how many men the Glenmores would bring, so this could mean an even greater potential for House Forrester's forces.
Fighting Capability for future episodes:
House Whitehill 125-150 men
House Forrester 100+ men (Entirely dependent if Asher arrives with 100 sellswords as well as we don't know how many men the Glenmores will provide)
Anyway, I'd just like to see if people agree with my estimates. If not, what do you think? Do bare in mind large forces such as House Bolton field 5,000 men (Their sworn houses would also provide these men, so Whitehill men make up this force)
Comments
I just want to know how many Whitehill soldiers were killed at the Red Wedding if any.
They are Bolton bannermen, so they would have probably helped with the slaughter of the Stark loyalists, so no
I would guess none. They are banner men to house Bolton. The Boltons would not kill their own people. Also they might not have gone at all.
I've read the books, I'd hate to provide spoliers but they're only minor. Whitehill soldiers will have compromised of House Bolton's 5,000, that's where Gryff was and why he was allowed to return from Harrenhall unscathed by the Lannisters. I imagine the Whitehill soldiers were with Gryff at Harrenhall, however if the Whitehills were at the Red Wedding- they would've been killing other northerners on Roose Bolton's orders.
A few went, as Gryff was down in Harrenhall, which Roose took over for a short time.
I think there was a Whitehill sigil visible in the ep1 intro
I think the shock of the 20 men in Ironrath was because they were whitehill men and it was unacceptable.
To be fair if it does come to war, it will likely only be between Highpoint and Ironrath. Can't see Roose getting involved in that shit - 'a peaceful land, a quiet people, that is the way I rule'
In addition, he's still occupied with the remaining Ironborn resistance and later Stannis when he arrives, so he really doesn't have time for it.
Considering that the Glenmore army is determinant and may end up being cut all together, it may come down to Ironrath's only army is the 100 sellswords Asher can gather. I don't think that will be enough to win an all out fight between Highpoint and Ironrath, so I figure there will be other aspects to this war that will help them win as well.
That's true.
Also:
"Tywin Lannister has given me the north, but he won't move a finger to help me take it."
Only thing we can hope for is that Gryff loses the respect of his men and they turncloak for House Forrester. That on top of Asher getting an army will probably take care of the Whitehill army. And Roose is too busy to take care of a minor house like Forrester.
True. But I also think the merc group Asher is talking to could probably cut down at least 2-3 Whitehill men for every one lost. They've been rolling hard for a while. Whitehills are fat pansies hiding behind Ramsay's petticoats.
I love how the Whitehill garrison shrunk from 20 generic sworn swords to five drunken unique models.
I wonder why Britt and the Whitehills who arrive with Ludd and Ramsay wear generic bluish armor with no sigil, yet the ones in Ironrath have greyish armor with the Whitehill sigil on the gorget. I'd say it was an update for Episode 2, but Britt still wears the generic blue armor at the Wall.
By the way, the first Whitehill there is Harys, Gryff's best friend. The one below him is Fegg, who you may remember as having blocked Rodrik and Talia last episode. Not much screen time for a credited role, however. Both are unique purely because they're not generic.
Maybe the devs felt it was too hard to put Britts face on the new armor model. I also like how the only hint that the Whitehills worshipped the New Gods was Britt taking his vows in the sept.
House Whitehill: A decent amount.
House Forrester: Royland
Well, it was known that the Whitehills worshipped the Faith (one of the few Northern houses to do so) beforehand, though this confirmed it. Though an interesting bit is that Britt is a son of House Warrick, who worship the Faith and are apparently even smaller than the Whitehills, but bannermen to the Boltons all the same.
pretty much
Honestly I don't like the idea of Asher recruiting the Second Sons.. It's a bit lore breaking in my opinion. They never left Essos and many of them are exiled nobles who can't even return to Westeros, so how could they even go with Asher to Ironrath?
kek'd
Just an update, this surprised me. If you choose to expel Gryff from Ironrath, Royland states he can rally "30 or 40 men" to the cause, which suggests they may have more fighting men than we think, although this number probably accounts for untrained peasants.
That's the Golden Company you're thinking of, their Exiled Westeros folk, the Second Sons are made up of people from Essos really, plus they're only taking a Company of 100 men.
Actually I did mean the Second Sons. Many of their members are exiled highborn but obviously not everyone.
The GC is not so different than the others, maybe more are Westerosis but many are not.
And yeah I know it's only 100(out of 500 though so not really 'only')Guess it doesn't really matter ..just doesn't feel true to the books lore that's all.
I think house Warrick is the Whitehill equivalent of the Tuttles, not really holding land, more like a clan o some sort.
Maybe the peasants don't fight at all, due to their unwillingness and lack of training. They can Fort Detroit it
Heh, love your comment, mate. I also sometimes feel like that Royland is the only soldier that the Forresters have left in Ironrath.