This isn't even the first rape we've seen in the show. Daenerys was raped by Khal Drogo in season 1. Even though she ended up loving him, she was still raped initially. Joffrey(an under aged boy) "sexually assaulted" two "whores" by making them brutally beat each other while he watched in a state of arousal. He then killed Ros(one of the whores) with his crossbow later on.
Lets not forget that Robb Starks wife had her damn baby cut out of her stomach before he was stabbed and his mom had her throat cut. The Kingsguard went around slaughtering INFANTS, Sansa has been tortured and beaten throughout the entire show. Innocent animals have been murdered. Young boys have been burned alive(we didn't see it on screen, just their charred rotting corpses hanging from a building).
Basically, this is just another one of those feminazi "lets make an uproar about something we caught wind of that we know nothing about or haven't done any research on!" moments, and yes, I'm sure a few moms were probably very disturbed by this too and say they're going to stop watching the show(they'll get over it).
Now, what separates this from all the other shit that's gone down in Game of Thrones?
America is super confused about sexuality. Most of America associates sexuality with negative feelings even when it's consensual. Add more negative feelings on top of that by turning it into a rape? Watch out, our entire country loses their ability to process whats happening and they freak out.
Sansa is a young girl.
Though, I don't think that makes it any less sad or wrong than Daenery's rape. Why? Sansa had the choice to go with Brienne. Instead, she made the PERSONAL CHOICE to stick with Little Finger. She AGREED to marry Ramsay. What happens when you marry someone? You CONSUMMATE THE MARRIAGE. She KNEW what she was getting into when she walked to the doors of Winterfell, even though she didn't have any control of the circumstances leading up to that. What did everyone expect, Ramsay to be gentle and loving towards her during the consummation? If anything, I was expecting him to do worse. Regardless, she STILL HAD A CHOICE. Daenerys didn't have a choice. She was controlled and tortured by her abusive older brother, who forced her into her marriage with Khal Drogo. And I quote, "I would let their whole tribe fuck you. All 40,000 men and their horses too, if that's what it took."
Anyway, rape is a terrible thing. So is torture, mass murder, mutilation, manipulation, baby killing, sexual assault, flaying, burning people alive, and all the other twisted shit that's happened in this show. But they are all realities of life. Sadly, too many people(particularly the ones making a huplah about an occurrence on a TV show) can't face reality, so they freak out and act irrationally rather than doing anything about it. That, and apparently there's a lot of women in the world who worship their own vagina's and give it precedence over babies lives.
There is a huge difference in Jeyne Poole's Situation than Sansa's. This is NOT the case of "Sansa is more precious" but that her POV has her in the Vale where she has a story and passive but politically manipulated situation that she's slowly taking control of under Little finger and Harry the Heir. This is in stark contrast between her actively dangerous situation in King's Landing for survival and now her potentially promising oppurtunity to move up. The big questions that arise is how she'll undermine Little finger's plans or go along with it.
Whereas Jeyne Poole's story is yes, she faces brutality but the point is that GRRM is showing that in the Game of Thrones it's the Little folk who suffer under the wreckless politics of the High Lords. So the entire exclusion of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands, Jeyne poole having a face and Theon essentially risking his life/loyalty and trauma for an individual with no personal or political value is in important theme in the books which the Show throws away for unnecessary Rape towards a "beloved" female character for shock value. Which seeing as how they butcher the books to high hell and cherry pick what they like, The absurdity is they chose to keep in the Rape but none of the themes and well written circumstances around it.
I thought it was more fans were angry because it did nit happen in the book? There has been plenty of other sciences like that and no body has moaned thus far...
i dont know how you can say her sudden wittiness towards Harry is suddenly Out of nowhere when she's shown signs of that here and there enough in King's landing under joffrey. She didnt even kneel for Tyrion and she was an active participant when she met Dontos frequently.
So you're wrong there. Also Harry may be an arrogant little Punk but he is no way as violent or hostile as Joffrey, so Sansa can easily feel her situation out and get a higher hand over Harry.
Also Why suddenly throw Sansa to the Boltons if not for cheap shock value? Jeyne existed in the story for a reason. Sansa being thrown into the boltons hands makes no sense in a writer's sense anyway because-
The heavy theme of the Little folk suffering the most under the high lords is gone
Someone as well resourced as Little finger can easily find out ramsay's a sadist monster. Yet he's throwing sansa which is his "key" to the north to the Boltons? Huge Plothole of him saying "Dont know much about you" to Ramsay when Ramsay is running around the woods hunting people for sport, killing and burning civillians, and torturing people till their screams are heard throughout winterfell. Everyone in the North knows that.
-Why is Sexual violence necessary to make a "strong revenge fueled female"? She already knows the Boltons killed brother and mother. That is a reason enough, why is she suddenly have to face rape to suddenly spur her revenge? She didn't pull a knife outta her gown or something, so being marital raped is unnecessary.
-If cherry picking and demolishing huge scenes and arcs from the book, why keep this specific Sexual violence part? And why butcher numerous female characters and their themes for it? And for a man's plot at that? (Theon's)
-Likewise Theon's character is then faced with a huge disservice. His act of helping Jeyne was a central point that he'd risk his life for a low-born girl with no political or personal value to not only himself but for even citizens of Winterfell. This is a HUGE change in his character and the expectations of the narratives in Westeros (and the aforementioned important theme of classism)
Well we clearly disagree in one thing: I don't think the situation is the same that it was in KL. Simply because Sansa has already grown fro… morem who she was then. And I do think this storyline can and will serve her development just like the Vale storyline will, you talk about people who "will rescue her". Eh, maybe watch the storyline to the end before deciding things. She can play the game in the Vale? Well, as long as it pleases Littlefinger.
Mm, she almost cried because of Harry and then she suddenly bewitched him with her new wittiness that came out of nowhere.
Completely disagree that they did this for shock value. I think they did it simply because everything you said simply is not feasible to portray on the show in the short time they have, so they consolidate characters and eliminate and combine storylines. You could say any violent act theyve have on on the show starting with Ned losing his head was for shock value because people were certainly shocked, but that led to serious repercussions throughout the show. I dont think this is any different.
There is a huge difference in Jeyne Poole's Situation than Sansa's. This is NOT the case of "Sansa is more precious" but that her POV has he… morer in the Vale where she has a story and passive but politically manipulated situation that she's slowly taking control of under Little finger and Harry the Heir. This is in stark contrast between her actively dangerous situation in King's Landing for survival and now her potentially promising oppurtunity to move up. The big questions that arise is how she'll undermine Little finger's plans or go along with it.
Whereas Jeyne Poole's story is yes, she faces brutality but the point is that GRRM is showing that in the Game of Thrones it's the Little folk who suffer under the wreckless politics of the High Lords. So the entire exclusion of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands, Jeyne poole having a face and Theon essentially risking his life/loyalty and trauma for an individual with no personal or political val… [view original content]
wow, if you don't know what made the context in the book different from this watered down piss of a show then don't even make that comparison.
What happened in the book was an ongoing theme in AFFC and ADWD where its the little folk who suffer the most under the reckless games of the High Lords and the many story points that spawned because of it. (The High Sparrow Movement, The brotherhood without banners, LSH, Jaime in the Riverlands, Mance). Jeyne was one of the MANY faces of that and her brutality was excessive but its to parallel Theon's and the Stunning development that Theon would go through for a lowborn girl that has no "political" or personal value.
So wow. wow. Sansa being marital raped is not just "unnecessary" but cheap shock value that has so many plotholes its just bad swiss cheese.
Tumblr loves a good argument. They all threaten not to watch, but you know full well they'll stay and keep watching.
It was way, way, WAY… more worse in the books, apparently they don't like that the focus was on Theon... but do you really want the camera to pan around and see Ramsay defile Sansa?
But the situation and writing that led to her unnecessary marriage is what everyone's angry about. It makes no sense whatsoever to put her in that situation when in actuality BEING IN THE VALE is the strongest political position for her.
While Stannis baratheon battles it out with him, she would have her own Vale troops through her marriage with either Robert Arryn(Robin)/Harry the Heir and when she announces her survival the North will rise up and cause inner turmoil for the Boltons sufficiently weaking and usurping their power.
Why is it necessary for her to be placed WITH the Boltons? Unnecessary cheap shock value of course spawned from bad writing.
COMMON guys seriously she married the guy what did u expect ?
he isn't tyrion he is Ramsy and u all knew what should have happen for a girl who got married (go to bed)
especially GoT
she accepted and he did it that's it
Huge Plothole of him saying "Dont know much about you" to Ramsay when Ramsay is running around the woods hunting people for sport, killing and burning civillians, and torturing people till their screams are heard throughout winterfell. Everyone in the North knows that.
That's bookcanon, in show we never heard of him before season 3, and our main protagonists were from the North. In the show he simply isn't as widely known - which makes sense since Westeros is supposed to be the size of South-America.
And using words "cheap" and "unnecessary" all the time just tells you didn't personally like it. And I hope you never complain about show moving too slowly since you demand more storylines stuffed into it.
i dont know how you can say her sudden wittiness towards Harry is suddenly Out of nowhere when she's shown signs of that here and there enou… moregh in King's landing under joffrey. She didnt even kneel for Tyrion and she was an active participant when she met Dontos frequently.
So you're wrong there. Also Harry may be an arrogant little Punk but he is no way as violent or hostile as Joffrey, so Sansa can easily feel her situation out and get a higher hand over Harry.
Also Why suddenly throw Sansa to the Boltons if not for cheap shock value? Jeyne existed in the story for a reason. Sansa being thrown into the boltons hands makes no sense in a writer's sense anyway because-
* The heavy theme of the Little folk suffering the most under the high lords is gone
* Someone as well resourced as Little finger can easily find out ramsay's a sadist monster. Yet he's throwing sansa which is his "key" to the north to the Boltons? Huge Plothole of hi… [view original content]
What happened in the book was an ongoing theme in AFFC and ADWD where its the little folk who suffer the most under the reckless games of the High Lords and the many story points that spawned because of it.
Yes, and that is an interesting theme that suits well for the huge novels that have all the time (and characters) to tell the story. However in the show they can't stick around things like that, they have to keep the story moving. Anyway, you're welcome to stop your hatewatching and be done with it, problem solved.
wow, if you don't know what made the context in the book different from this watered down piss of a show then don't even make that compariso… moren.
What happened in the book was an ongoing theme in AFFC and ADWD where its the little folk who suffer the most under the reckless games of the High Lords and the many story points that spawned because of it. (The High Sparrow Movement, The brotherhood without banners, LSH, Jaime in the Riverlands, Mance). Jeyne was one of the MANY faces of that and her brutality was excessive but its to parallel Theon's and the Stunning development that Theon would go through for a lowborn girl that has no "political" or personal value.
So wow. wow. Sansa being marital raped is not just "unnecessary" but cheap shock value that has so many plotholes its just bad swiss cheese.
Ding, Dong Wrong. They ARENT combining Story arcs at all especially from what we've seen at the Newest episode with Jaime in Dorne. That had next to nothing what happened in the books so there is no combination ggoing on. The writers are cherry picking what they want shown and it shows how bad that is.
The only "combination" is they did away Aegon/Coddington's storyline and gave the most shallow bit of it to Tyrion and Jorah.
And Sansa and Jeyne's which As i wrote before waters down the big message and theme in the Books.
Are we getting Jaime in the Riverlands? No. What about the Freys? The Brotherhood without Banners? LSH? Manderly?
Dont see any of that there, all of which would be great writing material.
Is sansa gonna adapt ANY of the traits above? No?
They're cherrypicking and cherry picking poorly. (of all the story plots they could have taken they chose one with marital rape) You are defending that its not "Purely" shock value but how? Because no matter which way you pull it comes off as pretty piss poor and borderline sexist writing.
-------Sansa needs to be hurt to become stronger. =No I think the Bolton's betrayal and murder of her family suffices. Also why? she got hurt plenty at King's Landing, is rape suddenly necessary to break the cutie trope more?
----------Why would Littlefinger who has the most vast network system on Westeros NOT know about Ramsay Bolton's sadism? Let alone give one of his potentially valuable pieces and his new love interest to an extremely dangerous and traiterous enemy? Everyone in the North knows the Bastard of the North is hunting people in the woods, setting people on fire, and torturing them.
-------Likewise, It would be more advantage to have her in the Vale and wait till Stannis faces off with the Boltons and then send the Vale army and with Sansa leading the call the North will rise under Bolton-rule and overthrow them. This is an advantageous concept and easy to execute in the show. Did that happen no. Its happening in the books, why not the show?
Completely disagree that they did this for shock value. I think they did it simply because everything you said simply is not feasible to por… moretray on the show in the short time they have, so they consolidate characters and eliminate and combine storylines. You could say any violent act theyve have on on the show starting with Ned losing his head was for shock value because people were certainly shocked, but that led to serious repercussions throughout the show. I dont think this is any different.
Umm, are you serious? he Burned those civillians for not paying taxes and their corpses hang outside in the yard. That was in the show and Roose berated him at dinner.
He hunted girls in the woods with Myranda, the show ALSO depicted that.
Theon sure was screaming, the camera panned out and the screams echoed in the castle. Echoed.
He was in no way being discreet.
Your telling me Little finger who was in cahoots with Tywin and Roose and knows every thing with his network (and is shown to know every lil thing prior) wouldnt know of the infamous bastards reputation? for a HUGE coontinent your defending, LF somehow can teleport down to KIng's landing from the Vale, to Winterfell to King's landing to plot with Cersei before Stannis rides down from the wall which is actually not as far in comparison?
Huge Plothole of him saying "Dont know much about you" to Ramsay when Ramsay is running around the woods hunting people for sport, killing a… morend burning civillians, and torturing people till their screams are heard throughout winterfell. Everyone in the North knows that.
That's bookcanon, in show we never heard of him before season 3, and our main protagonists were from the North. In the show he simply isn't as widely known - which makes sense since Westeros is supposed to be the size of South-America.
And using words "cheap" and "unnecessary" all the time just tells you didn't personally like it. And I hope you never complain about show moving too slowly since you demand more storylines stuffed into it.
"The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho. He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.” - Bryan Cogman, writer of episode 6.
And yes the continent is huge. LF moving quickly is it's own thing, which certainly is a little weird but I can live with it. (Btw, of course it's faster to travel south in clear weather with small group rather than march with army in a snowstorm.)
Umm, are you serious? he Burned those civillians for not paying taxes and their corpses hang outside in the yard. That was in the show and R… moreoose berated him at dinner.
He hunted girls in the woods with Myranda, the show ALSO depicted that.
Theon sure was screaming, the camera panned out and the screams echoed in the castle. Echoed.
He was in no way being discreet.
Your telling me Little finger who was in cahoots with Tywin and Roose and knows every thing with his network (and is shown to know every lil thing prior) wouldnt know of the infamous bastards reputation? for a HUGE coontinent your defending, LF somehow can teleport down to KIng's landing from the Vale, to Winterfell to King's landing to plot with Cersei before Stannis rides down from the wall which is actually not as far in comparison?
Buttt we have time for Pod being an amazing lover for Hookers, jaime's wacky adventures with Bronn in a piss poor reimagined version of Dorne, Sansa being marital raped, Little finger making dumb OOC plans that can blow up in his favor, Margaery Sexually abusing a minor, and Margaery and Cersei's catty feuds and Brienne doing.... nothing? No wait, Killing people she doesnt have to.
They could have easily combined Brienne and Jaime's Time slots together and done a great rendition of the Riverlands even if it has to be brief (cuz seven hells they arent doing anything important now).
The High sparrow movement could have easily been less about persecuting Homosexuality and more about how it spawned from the riverlands as a religious movement against the High Lords. (oh look 3 possible combos! I'm on a role) And oh my, with less Littlefinger randomly teleporting at every scene, with all that time left over we could easily have idk, Sansa being in the Vale and coinciding her plans with Stannis' arrival and have her in a gasp, a marriage that may actually give her some agency and oppurtunity. Dear sweet robin isnt a great lord, but My god, sansa could atleast not be marital raped.
And d'awww, I'm hatewatching. I didn't know being critical of writing choices was Hatewatching.
changes from Book to Show is hard but this is just bad fanfiction levels.
What happened in the book was an ongoing theme in AFFC and ADWD where its the little folk who suffer the most under the reckless games of th… moree High Lords and the many story points that spawned because of it.
Yes, and that is an interesting theme that suits well for the huge novels that have all the time (and characters) to tell the story. However in the show they can't stick around things like that, they have to keep the story moving. Anyway, you're welcome to stop your hatewatching and be done with it, problem solved.
So Little finger who's meant to be this brilliant schemer that the show wants us to think is sooo brilliant decides to throw Sansa his key to the North AT a BOLTON. A Bolton he knows NOTHING ABOUT.
But not to Robin a sickly boy he can pretty much manipulate into anything. Okay sure.
Also No, if your arguing to me about how huge the continent is but is using a snowstorm as an excuse to why Stannis who is 1/3 of the distance compared to LF who has to cross not only from the Vale but through half the North then double back down through the North but down through the Riverlands and the crownlands to even reach King's landing. Thats not just weird thats teleporting.
Also I'm pretty confident in an army of trained physically fit soldiers over LF who isnt as physically capable no matter how swift. That's teleporting.
"The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho. He’s not known everywher… moree as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.” - Bryan Cogman, writer of episode 6.
And yes the continent is huge. LF moving quickly is it's own thing, which certainly is a little weird but I can live with it. (Btw, of course it's faster to travel south in clear weather with small group rather than march with army in a snowstorm.)
Buttt we have time for Pod being an amazing lover for Hookers, jaime's wacky adventures with Bronn in a piss poor reimagined version of Dorn… moree, Sansa being marital raped, Little finger making dumb OOC plans that can blow up in his favor, Margaery Sexually abusing a minor, and Margaery and Cersei's catty feuds and Brienne doing.... nothing? No wait, Killing people she doesnt have to.
They could have easily combined Brienne and Jaime's Time slots together and done a great rendition of the Riverlands even if it has to be brief (cuz seven hells they arent doing anything important now).
The High sparrow movement could have easily been less about persecuting Homosexuality and more about how it spawned from the riverlands as a religious movement against the High Lords. (oh look 3 possible combos! I'm on a role) And oh my, with less Littlefinger randomly teleporting at every scene, with all that time left over we could easily have idk, Sansa bein… [view original content]
What kind of argument is that? You did read my statement how you can easily combine 3 of D&D's useless storyplots into One big one (Jaime's, Brienne and High Sparrow, which can easily move into King's Landing and Cersei's trial).
That's being critical. I just wrote you out a pretty easily condensed and followable plus eventful TV all in one.
Your reading comprehension is pretty poor no wonder your arguments isnt standing up very easily.
Also I highly doubt HBO is so tight on money that they HAVE to condense everything. Game of Thrones is their cash cow so extending it would actually be a decently sound choice. But you know, extending it and with incompetant writers its probably more apparent so their giving us this awful rush job with SHOCK. MORE RAPE.
I didn't know being critical of writing choices was Hatewatching.
Oh come on, that's not being critical, that's shouting "THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S IN THE BOOKS! PISS POOR! CHEAP! NONEUNDERSTAAAAAANDS!"
His plan seems to be that he lets the Boltons and Stannis fight and then comes in with the knights of the Vale. In the show LF clearly tries to win the 7 kingdoms piece by piece. If for example Stannis would win Boltons and then LF would win Stannis he would again have Sansa in his hands AND now he would also have the North.
Clearly you have often been marching in the cold snowstorms....not
So Little finger who's meant to be this brilliant schemer that the show wants us to think is sooo brilliant decides to throw Sansa his key t… moreo the North AT a BOLTON. A Bolton he knows NOTHING ABOUT.
But not to Robin a sickly boy he can pretty much manipulate into anything. Okay sure.
Also No, if your arguing to me about how huge the continent is but is using a snowstorm as an excuse to why Stannis who is 1/3 of the distance compared to LF who has to cross not only from the Vale but through half the North then double back down through the North but down through the Riverlands and the crownlands to even reach King's landing. Thats not just weird thats teleporting.
Also I'm pretty confident in an army of trained physically fit soldiers over LF who isnt as physically capable no matter how swift. That's teleporting.
Ummm and that can easily be done having Sansa be safe in the Vale? I like repeated that like how many times? Stannis and Boltons can duke it out, Vale soldiers come in with Sansa at the arm, she causes the North to uprise and Stannis will STILL be weakened and taken out? And while Cersei is pretty much imploding on her own thats not hard at all. And D&D know this its IN the book of which they are SOURCING their show from.
Also my god, wasn't that hard for Stannis' soldiers to Duke it out with Mance's Men in the beginning of the season beyond the wall with snow falling all over them and outnumbered. But marching down to Winterfell, cant do that fast, LF is teleporting master. Or was that snow storm suddenly superficial and didn't really exist? This show tells me one thing then the writers claim another. Tired yet?
His plan seems to be that he lets the Boltons and Stannis fight and then comes in with the knights of the Vale. In the show LF clearly tries… more to win the 7 kingdoms piece by piece. If for example Stannis would win Boltons and then LF would win Stannis he would again have Sansa in his hands AND now he would also have the North.
Clearly you have often been marching in the cold snowstorms....not
Again, "useless", how about seeing how all this ties together in the end before deciding what is useless and what is not?
My reading comprehension is pretty good, thank you, even if English isn't my first language. Yes, combining those three storylines could work, but then again going through the aftermath of war in Riverlands could easily come off dragging in TV (besides we've had those themes in the last season with Arya&Hound.)
Ah, why am I speaking with a furious keyboardwarrior...
What kind of argument is that? You did read my statement how you can easily combine 3 of D&D's useless storyplots into One big one (Jaim… moree's, Brienne and High Sparrow, which can easily move into King's Landing and Cersei's trial).
That's being critical. I just wrote you out a pretty easily condensed and followable plus eventful TV all in one.
Your reading comprehension is pretty poor no wonder your arguments isnt standing up very easily.
Also I highly doubt HBO is so tight on money that they HAVE to condense everything. Game of Thrones is their cash cow so extending it would actually be a decently sound choice. But you know, extending it and with incompetant writers its probably more apparent so their giving us this awful rush job with SHOCK. MORE RAPE.
Yes, perhaps keeping Sansa in the Vale would have been a option that had pleased the purists more, but it would have also been practically empty season for Sansa, and that way also for Sophie Turner, of course they want to use a talented actress like her. And we know if they had made a storyline in the Vale it could have never been as good as it might be in the books, because they can't put so much focus on there. The kind of adaptation you and many others dream of can only be made as an animation where you don't have the amount of filming days, locations, budget etc. setting boundaries.
And Stannis' army was stuck in snow in the books too so what the hell is your problem there? And perhaps you've said the word teleport enough times already? We get it you think he teleports, okay - I'll just say he travels fast.
Ummm and that can easily be done having Sansa be safe in the Vale? I like repeated that like how many times? Stannis and Boltons can duke it… more out, Vale soldiers come in with Sansa at the arm, she causes the North to uprise and Stannis will STILL be weakened and taken out? And while Cersei is pretty much imploding on her own thats not hard at all. And D&D know this its IN the book of which they are SOURCING their show from.
Also my god, wasn't that hard for Stannis' soldiers to Duke it out with Mance's Men in the beginning of the season beyond the wall with snow falling all over them and outnumbered. But marching down to Winterfell, cant do that fast, LF is teleporting master. Or was that snow storm suddenly superficial and didn't really exist? This show tells me one thing then the writers claim another. Tired yet?
You do know the writers of the show know the outcome of the books right? so they could have easily used some of that material and i honestly dont know how you can say she sits and does nothing when in the first season there was plenty slow build up so why is that suddenly not extended to Sansa and instead she's forced into having a marriage with a bolton?
Also if they're going to go off that tangent why are they suddenly prolonging Stannis' arrival when things need to be "simplified" all of a sudden. Stannis in the books was caught in a snow storm but he had to make some unsteady alliances with mance, the NW and search for allies which entailed plenty of Northern lords and was basically King's landing against the Boltons and Freys except with more violence and pies. Instead we have this mess which is so repetitively Ramsay centered and he's honestly some deus ex machina of Misfortune. (I feel he's also that in the game but in the show sense its just repetative.)
Yes, perhaps keeping Sansa in the Vale would have been a option that had pleased the purists more, but it would have also been practically e… morempty season for Sansa, and that way also for Sophie Turner, of course they want to use a talented actress like her. And we know if they had made a storyline in the Vale it could have never been as good as it might be in the books, because they can't put so much focus on there. The kind of adaptation you and many others dream of can only be made as an animation where you don't have the amount of filming days, locations, budget etc. setting boundaries.
And Stannis' army was stuck in snow in the books too so what the hell is your problem there? And perhaps you've said the word teleport enough times already? We get it you think he teleports, okay - I'll just say he travels fast.
So suddenly the Problems in the Riverlands is dragging TV when there was plenty dragging within the first 4 seasons as well? The entire first season had slow build up, also Arya and the hound Barely even scraped the surface of the Riverlands, a huge war and turmoil was unleashed on the Riverlands during the War of 5 kings and all of a sudden its obsolete when it in fact spawned so many story elements?
Why bring up the Brotherhood without banners?
Suddenly the Boltons are the big bad but Freys who are equally responsible of the betrayals are just conveniently ignored?
Arya and the Hound had what? introduced the BwB but they're never brought up again? suddenly had the magical adventures of Hot Pie? Brienne is wandering and doing Nothing with Pod? It wouldnt drag as much as the show already did previously. Also returning to the riverlands is much better than giving us a shitty version of Dorne. The Riverlands is a setting we grew accustomed to and very important events occured. Thats what solid and well rounded storytelling is.
Cutting stuff out is fine but bastardizing (oops pun) and giving us shitty renditions of character wank and cheap shocks is kind of unnecessary. Also. Sexual abuse. Why not cut or USE that respectfully and well in a medium? The show cant even do that, they just write and mash up impossible situations to force gratuitous and unnecessary rape for the readers.
Again, "useless", how about seeing how all this ties together in the end before deciding what is useless and what is not?
My reading comp… morerehension is pretty good, thank you, even if English isn't my first language. Yes, combining those three storylines could work, but then again going through the aftermath of war in Riverlands could easily come off dragging in TV (besides we've had those themes in the last season with Arya&Hound.)
Ah, why am I speaking with a furious keyboardwarrior...
I'd like to bring up one thing: you can't know what will be brought back and what not until the show is done. For example people have been calling off the show for leaving the Greyjoy's as a loose end, but now it seems they are casting at least Euron for next season. And they took their chances with Dorne - the outcome is (so far) not good, but that tells nothing about how good or bad would Riverlands be. And also, in the casting calls for next season there was "Priest" whose introduction heavily implied to Septon Meribald. See? They might very well bring us some Riverlands next season.
So suddenly the Problems in the Riverlands is dragging TV when there was plenty dragging within the first 4 seasons as well? The entire firs… moret season had slow build up, also Arya and the hound Barely even scraped the surface of the Riverlands, a huge war and turmoil was unleashed on the Riverlands during the War of 5 kings and all of a sudden its obsolete when it in fact spawned so many story elements?
Why bring up the Brotherhood without banners?
Suddenly the Boltons are the big bad but Freys who are equally responsible of the betrayals are just conveniently ignored?
Arya and the Hound had what? introduced the BwB but they're never brought up again? suddenly had the magical adventures of Hot Pie? Brienne is wandering and doing Nothing with Pod? It wouldnt drag as much as the show already did previously. Also returning to the riverlands is much better than giving us a shitty version of Dorne. The Riverlands is a setting we grew accustomed t… [view original content]
Ive had a minor crisis and im tired and worried so Ill keep this short.
It seems to me that your big beef is that theyre not doing the storylines that you want to see. Cherry-picking as you call it is necessary to tell these thousands of pages of material in only ten episodes. You say they arent combining stories yet you list yourself the ways that they are. Some of this stuff thst you want, like Jaime being at the Riverlands just would not work. Hours of Jaime negotiating or whatever he thought he was doing wouldnt play as well on tv.
As for the shock value thing, you havent explained why it is shock value. Any number of things weve seen on the show since episode one can be considered shock value if you want to look at it that way. We just saw a woman's body flayed from head to toe. Why is what happened to Sansa anymore shocking from a visual standpoint than that? We didnt see what was happening to her, only Theon's face. This show pulls no punches and imo is well beyond shock value at this point.
We dont know why Littlefinger doesnt know about Ramsay. Maybe its not common knowledge. In fact, Ramsay himself wasnt common knowledge. He was just Bolton's bastard until recently. What Littlefinger is up to, i have no clue and wont until he unveils his grand scheme. But one thing is clear, he would sell out, destroy, use anyone to get what he wants, including his so called "love interest". Ughh!
It seems youre very dissatisfied with the show and how theyre adapting the books but given what they have to work with, i think they are doing as well as anyone could.
Ding, Dong Wrong. They ARENT combining Story arcs at all especially from what we've seen at the Newest episode with Jaime in Dorne. That had… more next to nothing what happened in the books so there is no combination ggoing on. The writers are cherry picking what they want shown and it shows how bad that is.
The only "combination" is they did away Aegon/Coddington's storyline and gave the most shallow bit of it to Tyrion and Jorah.
And Sansa and Jeyne's which As i wrote before waters down the big message and theme in the Books.
Are we getting Jaime in the Riverlands? No. What about the Freys? The Brotherhood without Banners? LSH? Manderly?
Dont see any of that there, all of which would be great writing material.
Is sansa gonna adapt ANY of the traits above? No?
They're cherrypicking and cherry picking poorly. (of all the story plots they could have taken they chose one with marital rape) You are defending that its not "Purely" shock valu… [view original content]
I didn't hear about Septon meribald but I'm pretty happy for that, Euron i'm kind of half-and-half about because Yara's storyline may be coming back but Im not too excited for what they had planned for her. Just to have her receive theon enough is fine for me because i dont have faith in the writers for the Greyjoy's outside of those two especially how they handled Dorne. Dorne was one of my favorite parts in AFFC and they butchered out the very heart of it (Doran, Quentyn and Arianne) that it was better to JUST be cut.
But they said there's going to be an estimated of 7 Seasons (for now) and I honestly dont think the pacing will do them good especially when S1-3 were paced pretty well but 4-5 are so choppy. Doesnt change the fact that the feminists who everyone in this thread are screaming about do have a really good point. Sansa's situation was not only unnecessary but pretty sexist just like Dany and cersei's before them.
Dany is too young to consent properly even if she accepted. And Cersei's relationship with Jaime has always been a well known problematic but complex issue, that the show didnt have the book's character history and length to back up. But it was in the books and discussing and disapproving is important for readers and watchers to do.
But this didnt happen to Sansa in the books and jumping through hoops to make it happen was really the writer Digging the barrel for shock value that has turned it into a feminist issue.
I'd like to bring up one thing: you can't know what will be brought back and what not until the show is done. For example people have been c… morealling off the show for leaving the Greyjoy's as a loose end, but now it seems they are casting at least Euron for next season. And they took their chances with Dorne - the outcome is (so far) not good, but that tells nothing about how good or bad would Riverlands be. And also, in the casting calls for next season there was "Priest" whose introduction heavily implied to Septon Meribald. See? They might very well bring us some Riverlands next season.
Of course that's what he wanted! WE all have see what Ramsay is about no matter HOW he acts around his family and other times he must show decorum around people he has no control over.
I'm not sure how people thought sex with Ramsay was going to be considering he feels like he's got some morbid point to make to the people he has power over. I was expecting nothing less and was actually underwhelmed by the whole scene. Of course he made Reek watch, what a way to show both of them that he's the one in control.
I'm not one of those to complain about the scene, but I must say it still wasn't really the ordinary wedding night in Westeros. Sure, men pr… moreobably often do take the wife without asking on wedding nights, but Ramsay clearly wanted to humiliate both Sansa and Reek in this scene. Making Reek watch, ripping the dress.
Sigh, well that took about 5 minutes for people to start blindly bashing Feminists, didn't it? Even though most of these people complaining aren't Feminists, but whatever. Believe what you want.
Well my real issue with the event is that it was unnecessary and was obviously done for Shock Value. The show runners KNEW that people were just itching for something to complain about, so they decide to waste time on showing the rape of Sansa Stark, something that once again didn't even happen in the books. Honestly, I'm not angry that she got raped. I'm angry at how unnecessarily bloody/dark the show's getting lately. In the beginning, when bad stuff happened it happened for a reason. The events seemed like it would have happened within the universe. and enough was shown so that it was horrifying to the viewer, but also tasteful. The problem with the show lately is that it's all just shock value. We didn't even need this scene. We as the viewers can already imagine what Ramsay Snow does to Sansa. But we have to see it on TV anyways so we can maintain that rating and creep people out.
TBH I think it would've flowed better if we just saw the scene afterwards with Sansa asking Theon to help her escape. But whatever floats their boat I suppose.
I wouldn't say that it's unnecessary because we as an audience need to see just how terrible Ramsay is to Sansa as a wedded husband. Sure we knew he wouldn't be good to her (like he claimed he would) but we needed to know if he would treat her at least somewhat decently or like the whole out monster he usually is. They needed to show what drives Sansa to be so desperate.
Sigh, well that took about 5 minutes for people to start blindly bashing Feminists, didn't it? Even though most of these people complaining … morearen't Feminists, but whatever. Believe what you want.
Well my real issue with the event is that it was unnecessary and was obviously done for Shock Value. The show runners KNEW that people were just itching for something to complain about, so they decide to waste time on showing the rape of Sansa Stark, something that once again didn't even happen in the books. Honestly, I'm not angry that she got raped. I'm angry at how unnecessarily bloody/dark the show's getting lately. In the beginning, when bad stuff happened it happened for a reason. The events seemed like it would have happened within the universe. and enough was shown so that it was horrifying to the viewer, but also tasteful. The problem with the show lately is that it's all just shock value. We didn't even need this scene. We as the viewers … [view original content]
Sigh, well that took about 5 minutes for people to start blindly bashing Feminists, didn't it? Even though most of these people complaining … morearen't Feminists, but whatever. Believe what you want.
Well my real issue with the event is that it was unnecessary and was obviously done for Shock Value. The show runners KNEW that people were just itching for something to complain about, so they decide to waste time on showing the rape of Sansa Stark, something that once again didn't even happen in the books. Honestly, I'm not angry that she got raped. I'm angry at how unnecessarily bloody/dark the show's getting lately. In the beginning, when bad stuff happened it happened for a reason. The events seemed like it would have happened within the universe. and enough was shown so that it was horrifying to the viewer, but also tasteful. The problem with the show lately is that it's all just shock value. We didn't even need this scene. We as the viewers … [view original content]
Comments
Should we end this discussion sense 506 is over or should we continue? What do you guys think?
This isn't even the first rape we've seen in the show. Daenerys was raped by Khal Drogo in season 1. Even though she ended up loving him, she was still raped initially. Joffrey(an under aged boy) "sexually assaulted" two "whores" by making them brutally beat each other while he watched in a state of arousal. He then killed Ros(one of the whores) with his crossbow later on.
Lets not forget that Robb Starks wife had her damn baby cut out of her stomach before he was stabbed and his mom had her throat cut. The Kingsguard went around slaughtering INFANTS, Sansa has been tortured and beaten throughout the entire show. Innocent animals have been murdered. Young boys have been burned alive(we didn't see it on screen, just their charred rotting corpses hanging from a building).
Basically, this is just another one of those feminazi "lets make an uproar about something we caught wind of that we know nothing about or haven't done any research on!" moments, and yes, I'm sure a few moms were probably very disturbed by this too and say they're going to stop watching the show(they'll get over it).
Now, what separates this from all the other shit that's gone down in Game of Thrones?
America is super confused about sexuality. Most of America associates sexuality with negative feelings even when it's consensual. Add more negative feelings on top of that by turning it into a rape? Watch out, our entire country loses their ability to process whats happening and they freak out.
Sansa is a young girl.
Though, I don't think that makes it any less sad or wrong than Daenery's rape. Why? Sansa had the choice to go with Brienne. Instead, she made the PERSONAL CHOICE to stick with Little Finger. She AGREED to marry Ramsay. What happens when you marry someone? You CONSUMMATE THE MARRIAGE. She KNEW what she was getting into when she walked to the doors of Winterfell, even though she didn't have any control of the circumstances leading up to that. What did everyone expect, Ramsay to be gentle and loving towards her during the consummation? If anything, I was expecting him to do worse. Regardless, she STILL HAD A CHOICE. Daenerys didn't have a choice. She was controlled and tortured by her abusive older brother, who forced her into her marriage with Khal Drogo. And I quote, "I would let their whole tribe fuck you. All 40,000 men and their horses too, if that's what it took."
Anyway, rape is a terrible thing. So is torture, mass murder, mutilation, manipulation, baby killing, sexual assault, flaying, burning people alive, and all the other twisted shit that's happened in this show. But they are all realities of life. Sadly, too many people(particularly the ones making a huplah about an occurrence on a TV show) can't face reality, so they freak out and act irrationally rather than doing anything about it. That, and apparently there's a lot of women in the world who worship their own vagina's and give it precedence over babies lives.
It depends on what country you live in, but if you don't have consent laws that is basically the case.
There is a huge difference in Jeyne Poole's Situation than Sansa's. This is NOT the case of "Sansa is more precious" but that her POV has her in the Vale where she has a story and passive but politically manipulated situation that she's slowly taking control of under Little finger and Harry the Heir. This is in stark contrast between her actively dangerous situation in King's Landing for survival and now her potentially promising oppurtunity to move up. The big questions that arise is how she'll undermine Little finger's plans or go along with it.
Whereas Jeyne Poole's story is yes, she faces brutality but the point is that GRRM is showing that in the Game of Thrones it's the Little folk who suffer under the wreckless politics of the High Lords. So the entire exclusion of Jaime's journey in the Riverlands, Jeyne poole having a face and Theon essentially risking his life/loyalty and trauma for an individual with no personal or political value is in important theme in the books which the Show throws away for unnecessary Rape towards a "beloved" female character for shock value. Which seeing as how they butcher the books to high hell and cherry pick what they like, The absurdity is they chose to keep in the Rape but none of the themes and well written circumstances around it.
i dont know how you can say her sudden wittiness towards Harry is suddenly Out of nowhere when she's shown signs of that here and there enough in King's landing under joffrey. She didnt even kneel for Tyrion and she was an active participant when she met Dontos frequently.
So you're wrong there. Also Harry may be an arrogant little Punk but he is no way as violent or hostile as Joffrey, so Sansa can easily feel her situation out and get a higher hand over Harry.
Also Why suddenly throw Sansa to the Boltons if not for cheap shock value? Jeyne existed in the story for a reason. Sansa being thrown into the boltons hands makes no sense in a writer's sense anyway because-
-Why is Sexual violence necessary to make a "strong revenge fueled female"? She already knows the Boltons killed brother and mother. That is a reason enough, why is she suddenly have to face rape to suddenly spur her revenge? She didn't pull a knife outta her gown or something, so being marital raped is unnecessary.
-If cherry picking and demolishing huge scenes and arcs from the book, why keep this specific Sexual violence part? And why butcher numerous female characters and their themes for it? And for a man's plot at that? (Theon's)
-Likewise Theon's character is then faced with a huge disservice. His act of helping Jeyne was a central point that he'd risk his life for a low-born girl with no political or personal value to not only himself but for even citizens of Winterfell. This is a HUGE change in his character and the expectations of the narratives in Westeros (and the aforementioned important theme of classism)
Completely disagree that they did this for shock value. I think they did it simply because everything you said simply is not feasible to portray on the show in the short time they have, so they consolidate characters and eliminate and combine storylines. You could say any violent act theyve have on on the show starting with Ned losing his head was for shock value because people were certainly shocked, but that led to serious repercussions throughout the show. I dont think this is any different.
wow, if you don't know what made the context in the book different from this watered down piss of a show then don't even make that comparison.
What happened in the book was an ongoing theme in AFFC and ADWD where its the little folk who suffer the most under the reckless games of the High Lords and the many story points that spawned because of it. (The High Sparrow Movement, The brotherhood without banners, LSH, Jaime in the Riverlands, Mance). Jeyne was one of the MANY faces of that and her brutality was excessive but its to parallel Theon's and the Stunning development that Theon would go through for a lowborn girl that has no "political" or personal value.
So wow. wow. Sansa being marital raped is not just "unnecessary" but cheap shock value that has so many plotholes its just bad swiss cheese.
Some imaginary character was raped on a story full of chopped heads, cut off penises and entrail-eating rats.
Big deal.
But the situation and writing that led to her unnecessary marriage is what everyone's angry about. It makes no sense whatsoever to put her in that situation when in actuality BEING IN THE VALE is the strongest political position for her.
While Stannis baratheon battles it out with him, she would have her own Vale troops through her marriage with either Robert Arryn(Robin)/Harry the Heir and when she announces her survival the North will rise up and cause inner turmoil for the Boltons sufficiently weaking and usurping their power.
Why is it necessary for her to be placed WITH the Boltons? Unnecessary cheap shock value of course spawned from bad writing.
That's bookcanon, in show we never heard of him before season 3, and our main protagonists were from the North. In the show he simply isn't as widely known - which makes sense since Westeros is supposed to be the size of South-America.
And using words "cheap" and "unnecessary" all the time just tells you didn't personally like it. And I hope you never complain about show moving too slowly since you demand more storylines stuffed into it.
Yes, and that is an interesting theme that suits well for the huge novels that have all the time (and characters) to tell the story. However in the show they can't stick around things like that, they have to keep the story moving. Anyway, you're welcome to stop your hatewatching and be done with it, problem solved.
Ding, Dong Wrong. They ARENT combining Story arcs at all especially from what we've seen at the Newest episode with Jaime in Dorne. That had next to nothing what happened in the books so there is no combination ggoing on. The writers are cherry picking what they want shown and it shows how bad that is.
The only "combination" is they did away Aegon/Coddington's storyline and gave the most shallow bit of it to Tyrion and Jorah.
And Sansa and Jeyne's which As i wrote before waters down the big message and theme in the Books.
Are we getting Jaime in the Riverlands? No. What about the Freys? The Brotherhood without Banners? LSH? Manderly?
Dont see any of that there, all of which would be great writing material.
Is sansa gonna adapt ANY of the traits above? No?
They're cherrypicking and cherry picking poorly. (of all the story plots they could have taken they chose one with marital rape) You are defending that its not "Purely" shock value but how? Because no matter which way you pull it comes off as pretty piss poor and borderline sexist writing.
-------Sansa needs to be hurt to become stronger. =No I think the Bolton's betrayal and murder of her family suffices. Also why? she got hurt plenty at King's Landing, is rape suddenly necessary to break the cutie trope more?
----------Why would Littlefinger who has the most vast network system on Westeros NOT know about Ramsay Bolton's sadism? Let alone give one of his potentially valuable pieces and his new love interest to an extremely dangerous and traiterous enemy? Everyone in the North knows the Bastard of the North is hunting people in the woods, setting people on fire, and torturing them.
-------Likewise, It would be more advantage to have her in the Vale and wait till Stannis faces off with the Boltons and then send the Vale army and with Sansa leading the call the North will rise under Bolton-rule and overthrow them. This is an advantageous concept and easy to execute in the show. Did that happen no. Its happening in the books, why not the show?
So do tell me again why its not for shock value.
What is the big deal with 506 ending??? she was raped so what?? she isn't the firs, she wouldn't be the last...
Umm, are you serious? he Burned those civillians for not paying taxes and their corpses hang outside in the yard. That was in the show and Roose berated him at dinner.
He hunted girls in the woods with Myranda, the show ALSO depicted that.
Theon sure was screaming, the camera panned out and the screams echoed in the castle. Echoed.
He was in no way being discreet.
Your telling me Little finger who was in cahoots with Tywin and Roose and knows every thing with his network (and is shown to know every lil thing prior) wouldnt know of the infamous bastards reputation? for a HUGE coontinent your defending, LF somehow can teleport down to KIng's landing from the Vale, to Winterfell to King's landing to plot with Cersei before Stannis rides down from the wall which is actually not as far in comparison?
it's medieval times, what did you expect
ramsay and sansa clearly love each other very much, just look at the joy on ramsay's face
"The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho. He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.” - Bryan Cogman, writer of episode 6.
And yes the continent is huge. LF moving quickly is it's own thing, which certainly is a little weird but I can live with it. (Btw, of course it's faster to travel south in clear weather with small group rather than march with army in a snowstorm.)
Buttt we have time for Pod being an amazing lover for Hookers, jaime's wacky adventures with Bronn in a piss poor reimagined version of Dorne, Sansa being marital raped, Little finger making dumb OOC plans that can blow up in his favor, Margaery Sexually abusing a minor, and Margaery and Cersei's catty feuds and Brienne doing.... nothing? No wait, Killing people she doesnt have to.
They could have easily combined Brienne and Jaime's Time slots together and done a great rendition of the Riverlands even if it has to be brief (cuz seven hells they arent doing anything important now).
The High sparrow movement could have easily been less about persecuting Homosexuality and more about how it spawned from the riverlands as a religious movement against the High Lords. (oh look 3 possible combos! I'm on a role) And oh my, with less Littlefinger randomly teleporting at every scene, with all that time left over we could easily have idk, Sansa being in the Vale and coinciding her plans with Stannis' arrival and have her in a gasp, a marriage that may actually give her some agency and oppurtunity. Dear sweet robin isnt a great lord, but My god, sansa could atleast not be marital raped.
And d'awww, I'm hatewatching. I didn't know being critical of writing choices was Hatewatching.
changes from Book to Show is hard but this is just bad fanfiction levels.
So Little finger who's meant to be this brilliant schemer that the show wants us to think is sooo brilliant decides to throw Sansa his key to the North AT a BOLTON. A Bolton he knows NOTHING ABOUT.
But not to Robin a sickly boy he can pretty much manipulate into anything. Okay sure.
Also No, if your arguing to me about how huge the continent is but is using a snowstorm as an excuse to why Stannis who is 1/3 of the distance compared to LF who has to cross not only from the Vale but through half the North then double back down through the North but down through the Riverlands and the crownlands to even reach King's landing. Thats not just weird thats teleporting.
Also I'm pretty confident in an army of trained physically fit soldiers over LF who isnt as physically capable no matter how swift. That's teleporting.
Oh come on, that's not being critical, that's shouting "THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S IN THE BOOKS! PISS POOR! CHEAP! NONEUNDERSTAAAAAANDS!"
The face of a soulless vampire devil
What kind of argument is that? You did read my statement how you can easily combine 3 of D&D's useless storyplots into One big one (Jaime's, Brienne and High Sparrow, which can easily move into King's Landing and Cersei's trial).
That's being critical. I just wrote you out a pretty easily condensed and followable plus eventful TV all in one.
Your reading comprehension is pretty poor no wonder your arguments isnt standing up very easily.
Also I highly doubt HBO is so tight on money that they HAVE to condense everything. Game of Thrones is their cash cow so extending it would actually be a decently sound choice. But you know, extending it and with incompetant writers its probably more apparent so their giving us this awful rush job with SHOCK. MORE RAPE.
His plan seems to be that he lets the Boltons and Stannis fight and then comes in with the knights of the Vale. In the show LF clearly tries to win the 7 kingdoms piece by piece. If for example Stannis would win Boltons and then LF would win Stannis he would again have Sansa in his hands AND now he would also have the North.
Clearly you have often been marching in the cold snowstorms....not
Ummm and that can easily be done having Sansa be safe in the Vale? I like repeated that like how many times? Stannis and Boltons can duke it out, Vale soldiers come in with Sansa at the arm, she causes the North to uprise and Stannis will STILL be weakened and taken out? And while Cersei is pretty much imploding on her own thats not hard at all. And D&D know this its IN the book of which they are SOURCING their show from.
Also my god, wasn't that hard for Stannis' soldiers to Duke it out with Mance's Men in the beginning of the season beyond the wall with snow falling all over them and outnumbered. But marching down to Winterfell, cant do that fast, LF is teleporting master. Or was that snow storm suddenly superficial and didn't really exist? This show tells me one thing then the writers claim another. Tired yet?
Again, "useless", how about seeing how all this ties together in the end before deciding what is useless and what is not?
My reading comprehension is pretty good, thank you, even if English isn't my first language. Yes, combining those three storylines could work, but then again going through the aftermath of war in Riverlands could easily come off dragging in TV (besides we've had those themes in the last season with Arya&Hound.)
Ah, why am I speaking with a furious keyboardwarrior...
Yes, perhaps keeping Sansa in the Vale would have been a option that had pleased the purists more, but it would have also been practically empty season for Sansa, and that way also for Sophie Turner, of course they want to use a talented actress like her. And we know if they had made a storyline in the Vale it could have never been as good as it might be in the books, because they can't put so much focus on there. The kind of adaptation you and many others dream of can only be made as an animation where you don't have the amount of filming days, locations, budget etc. setting boundaries.
And Stannis' army was stuck in snow in the books too so what the hell is your problem there? And perhaps you've said the word teleport enough times already? We get it you think he teleports, okay - I'll just say he travels fast.
You do know the writers of the show know the outcome of the books right? so they could have easily used some of that material and i honestly dont know how you can say she sits and does nothing when in the first season there was plenty slow build up so why is that suddenly not extended to Sansa and instead she's forced into having a marriage with a bolton?
Also if they're going to go off that tangent why are they suddenly prolonging Stannis' arrival when things need to be "simplified" all of a sudden. Stannis in the books was caught in a snow storm but he had to make some unsteady alliances with mance, the NW and search for allies which entailed plenty of Northern lords and was basically King's landing against the Boltons and Freys except with more violence and pies. Instead we have this mess which is so repetitively Ramsay centered and he's honestly some deus ex machina of Misfortune. (I feel he's also that in the game but in the show sense its just repetative.)
So suddenly the Problems in the Riverlands is dragging TV when there was plenty dragging within the first 4 seasons as well? The entire first season had slow build up, also Arya and the hound Barely even scraped the surface of the Riverlands, a huge war and turmoil was unleashed on the Riverlands during the War of 5 kings and all of a sudden its obsolete when it in fact spawned so many story elements?
Why bring up the Brotherhood without banners?
Suddenly the Boltons are the big bad but Freys who are equally responsible of the betrayals are just conveniently ignored?
Arya and the Hound had what? introduced the BwB but they're never brought up again? suddenly had the magical adventures of Hot Pie? Brienne is wandering and doing Nothing with Pod? It wouldnt drag as much as the show already did previously. Also returning to the riverlands is much better than giving us a shitty version of Dorne. The Riverlands is a setting we grew accustomed to and very important events occured. Thats what solid and well rounded storytelling is.
Cutting stuff out is fine but bastardizing (oops pun) and giving us shitty renditions of character wank and cheap shocks is kind of unnecessary. Also. Sexual abuse. Why not cut or USE that respectfully and well in a medium? The show cant even do that, they just write and mash up impossible situations to force gratuitous and unnecessary rape for the readers.
I'd like to bring up one thing: you can't know what will be brought back and what not until the show is done. For example people have been calling off the show for leaving the Greyjoy's as a loose end, but now it seems they are casting at least Euron for next season. And they took their chances with Dorne - the outcome is (so far) not good, but that tells nothing about how good or bad would Riverlands be. And also, in the casting calls for next season there was "Priest" whose introduction heavily implied to Septon Meribald. See? They might very well bring us some Riverlands next season.
Ive had a minor crisis and im tired and worried so Ill keep this short.
It seems to me that your big beef is that theyre not doing the storylines that you want to see. Cherry-picking as you call it is necessary to tell these thousands of pages of material in only ten episodes. You say they arent combining stories yet you list yourself the ways that they are. Some of this stuff thst you want, like Jaime being at the Riverlands just would not work. Hours of Jaime negotiating or whatever he thought he was doing wouldnt play as well on tv.
As for the shock value thing, you havent explained why it is shock value. Any number of things weve seen on the show since episode one can be considered shock value if you want to look at it that way. We just saw a woman's body flayed from head to toe. Why is what happened to Sansa anymore shocking from a visual standpoint than that? We didnt see what was happening to her, only Theon's face. This show pulls no punches and imo is well beyond shock value at this point.
We dont know why Littlefinger doesnt know about Ramsay. Maybe its not common knowledge. In fact, Ramsay himself wasnt common knowledge. He was just Bolton's bastard until recently. What Littlefinger is up to, i have no clue and wont until he unveils his grand scheme. But one thing is clear, he would sell out, destroy, use anyone to get what he wants, including his so called "love interest". Ughh!
It seems youre very dissatisfied with the show and how theyre adapting the books but given what they have to work with, i think they are doing as well as anyone could.
I didn't hear about Septon meribald but I'm pretty happy for that, Euron i'm kind of half-and-half about because Yara's storyline may be coming back but Im not too excited for what they had planned for her. Just to have her receive theon enough is fine for me because i dont have faith in the writers for the Greyjoy's outside of those two especially how they handled Dorne. Dorne was one of my favorite parts in AFFC and they butchered out the very heart of it (Doran, Quentyn and Arianne) that it was better to JUST be cut.
But they said there's going to be an estimated of 7 Seasons (for now) and I honestly dont think the pacing will do them good especially when S1-3 were paced pretty well but 4-5 are so choppy. Doesnt change the fact that the feminists who everyone in this thread are screaming about do have a really good point. Sansa's situation was not only unnecessary but pretty sexist just like Dany and cersei's before them.
Dany is too young to consent properly even if she accepted. And Cersei's relationship with Jaime has always been a well known problematic but complex issue, that the show didnt have the book's character history and length to back up. But it was in the books and discussing and disapproving is important for readers and watchers to do.
But this didnt happen to Sansa in the books and jumping through hoops to make it happen was really the writer Digging the barrel for shock value that has turned it into a feminist issue.
Well that is certainly a smile that can melt a dirty bastard's heart.
Of course that's what he wanted! WE all have see what Ramsay is about no matter HOW he acts around his family and other times he must show decorum around people he has no control over.
I'm not sure how people thought sex with Ramsay was going to be considering he feels like he's got some morbid point to make to the people he has power over. I was expecting nothing less and was actually underwhelmed by the whole scene. Of course he made Reek watch, what a way to show both of them that he's the one in control.
Sigh, well that took about 5 minutes for people to start blindly bashing Feminists, didn't it? Even though most of these people complaining aren't Feminists, but whatever. Believe what you want.
Well my real issue with the event is that it was unnecessary and was obviously done for Shock Value. The show runners KNEW that people were just itching for something to complain about, so they decide to waste time on showing the rape of Sansa Stark, something that once again didn't even happen in the books. Honestly, I'm not angry that she got raped. I'm angry at how unnecessarily bloody/dark the show's getting lately. In the beginning, when bad stuff happened it happened for a reason. The events seemed like it would have happened within the universe. and enough was shown so that it was horrifying to the viewer, but also tasteful. The problem with the show lately is that it's all just shock value. We didn't even need this scene. We as the viewers can already imagine what Ramsay Snow does to Sansa. But we have to see it on TV anyways so we can maintain that rating and creep people out.
TBH I think it would've flowed better if we just saw the scene afterwards with Sansa asking Theon to help her escape. But whatever floats their boat I suppose.
I wouldn't say that it's unnecessary because we as an audience need to see just how terrible Ramsay is to Sansa as a wedded husband. Sure we knew he wouldn't be good to her (like he claimed he would) but we needed to know if he would treat her at least somewhat decently or like the whole out monster he usually is. They needed to show what drives Sansa to be so desperate.
Why would i stop watching it. That was Game of Thrones being Game of Thrones. It was always like that. Westeros is a terrible Place to live in.
I dont think any of that is obvious and i wish people would stop acting like they know what the writers are thinking.