I wonder what people say of Lord Tytos, a man who never truly defended his families honor and let even the largest of insults go unpunished. I wonder how long it will take for them to say similar things of a Rodrik that balks at justified retribution. Also I suppose your reasoning that no lord can allow himself to beat defenceless men is why many of them employ torturers in their dungeons.
I seriously can't believe your applying the Starks and the northmen's stupid ass concept of honor here. Because that's worked out so well for them, right?
I wouldn't mind kicking him a bit in a fair fight - only because he has beaten Ortengryn, there is nothing else he had done that I can't for… moregive. Certainly, I have no wish to maim him, no matter what the circstances of the fight are. I had a lure to punch him a bit when I got the chance, but didn't - it seems so low to hurt someone, who can't fight back, even if he deserves it. That would've meant that I'm not better than Gryff, not even a bit, and in my opinion, beating a defensless man is something, that no lord can allow himself to do.
Don't forget Ludds eldest son is still running around, Highpoint all its lands and its people will pass to him upon Ludds death. If he doesn't agree to the marriage and you kill him the Whitehill name and house dies with him, unless he's got male heirs. Gwyn inherits nothing even if she marries Asher and Highpoint is given to him as a fief, and handing out fiefs is something only Roose as Warden or Tommen as king can do. Rodrik would have no say in whether or not he gets to keep the castle.
i want peace between the whitehills and forresters. i want there to be an option for when asher comes back he could marry gwen and that this… more marrage will bring peace, but first i want Rodrick to kick Ludds ass and regain supremacy over the whitehills and possibly gain the respect from Ludd that will help unite and keep the peace as a joint house. and if Ludd refuses to this marriage and any possible alliance we'll go to war and ill kill him and gryff and have gwen lead the whitehills as ashers wife
Long story short - maiming Gryff is not going to go help my family. Like, for real. If it could somehow improve our situation, I'd agree, that you have a point. But it can't. Thing is, not maiming him is not dangerous for my family at all - so I can afford myself a luxuryy of being honorable.
I wonder what people say of Lord Tytos, a man who never truly defended his families honor and let even the largest of insults go unpunished.… more I wonder how long it will take for them to say similar things of a Rodrik that balks at justified retribution. Also I suppose your reasoning that no lord can allow himself to beat defenceless men is why many of them employ torturers in their dungeons.
I seriously can't believe your applying the Starks and the northmen's stupid ass concept of honor here. Because that's worked out so well for them, right?
I agree that it doesn't help in anyway and is actually quite dangerous for the Forresters.
But not doing anything to the man that threatened to kill your sister, beats you outside your hall, allowed his men to mock the former lord INSIDE his own hall, treats your people like shit than takes a maester and brutalizes him in your hall in front of you. Will not be seen as honorable by anyone. It'll be seen as a cowardly lack of strenght. Any man who allows another to get away with even one of these things without repercussions has no businesse being a lord.
Long story short - maiming Gryff is not going to go help my family. Like, for real. If it could somehow improve our situation, I'd agree, th… moreat you have a point. But it can't. Thing is, not maiming him is not dangerous for my family at all - so I can afford myself a luxuryy of being honorable.
How can beating a defensless man show anyone, that you are brave? I honestly don't get. It can be good as a revenge - but how can it be a proof of bravery? Do people actually think, that Rodrick did not beat a defensless and restrained person because he was afraid of him? What's there to be afraid of - getting your floor dirty? Breaking your cane? It may be considered as a wrong move by a lot of people - but why do you think "cowardly" is a right word to explain why exactly it is wrong?
I agree that it doesn't help in anyway and is actually quite dangerous for the Forresters.
But not doing anything to the man that threate… morened to kill your sister, beats you outside your hall, allowed his men to mock the former lord INSIDE his own hall, treats your people like shit than takes a maester and brutalizes him in your hall in front of you. Will not be seen as honorable by anyone. It'll be seen as a cowardly lack of strenght. Any man who allows another to get away with even one of these things without repercussions has no businesse being a lord.
Lets think of this case: House Forrester has not enough man to stop the Whitehills from ruining them and House Whitehill holds their son as hostage, OBVIOUSLY the wisest thing to do is NOT beat his son and make him blind, it will piss the Whitehills (that outnumber House Forrester) and it will endanger Ryon and House Forrester.
I wonder what people say of Lord Tytos, a man who never truly defended his families honor and let even the largest of insults go unpunished.… more I wonder how long it will take for them to say similar things of a Rodrik that balks at justified retribution. Also I suppose your reasoning that no lord can allow himself to beat defenceless men is why many of them employ torturers in their dungeons.
I seriously can't believe your applying the Starks and the northmen's stupid ass concept of honor here. Because that's worked out so well for them, right?
Lets think of this case: House Forrester has not enough man to stop the Whitehills from ruining them and House Whitehill holds their son as … morehostage, OBVIOUSLY the wisest thing to do is NOT beat his son and make him blind, it will piss the Whitehills (that outnumber House Forrester) and it will endanger Ryon and House Forrester.
I used to want Asher and Gywn together until I read on someones post that Asher is actually is Ludds half son with Elissa. I'm not sure if its true, but it does explain why hes blonde and why the families were so bothered by it.
I used to want Asher and Gywn together until I read on someones post that Asher is actually is Ludds half son with Elissa. I'm not sure if its true, but it does explain why hes blonde and why the families were so bothered by it.
Ok, first of all, I never once said that beating a restrained man constitutes bravery but, ok.
Being frightened of the repercussions for exacting revenge, which is what most people are worrying about. While having the upperhand, at this point in the story, however IS cowardly. Or does anyone seriously believe holding Ludds son, what I'm assuming is a knight and almost twenty soldiers hostage is an inferior position to Ludds one Ryon? No, of course it isn't. As I've already said, failing to punish a man for serious insults against your house is idiotic.
I mean, honestly, name one lord that would allow the shit Gryff pulled without punishing him and still save face not only in front of his enemies but his allies as well. By not delivering retribution he shows himself a weak man that will let anyone stroll into his keep do whatever the hell they please and still get off scott free.
How can beating a defensless man show anyone, that you are brave? I honestly don't get. It can be good as a revenge - but how can it be a pr… moreoof of bravery? Do people actually think, that Rodrick did not beat a defensless and restrained person because he was afraid of him? What's there to be afraid of - getting your floor dirty? Breaking your cane? It may be considered as a wrong move by a lot of people - but why do you think "cowardly" is a right word to explain why exactly it is wrong?
OBVIOUSLY house Forrester, at this point in the story has more leverage than the Whitehills or does having Ludds son, the knight, and almost 20 men worth of hostages not count? Not to mention the reason Ludd called you to Highpoint is literally to let you know the Whitehills are falling out of favor with the Boltons, because of their inability to produce quality ironwood materials, and they need you to pick up the slack to pull their asses out of the fire.
Seriously, how did this position become so popular?
The only reason our plans went to shit is because of the stupid ass Deus-ex Ramsey end. Otherwise we'd have traded Ryon for Gryff and probably kept the knight and soldiers as some kind of insurance. Then lord our superior workmanship to make sure they don't get too upity.
Lets think of this case: House Forrester has not enough man to stop the Whitehills from ruining them and House Whitehill holds their son as … morehostage, OBVIOUSLY the wisest thing to do is NOT beat his son and make him blind, it will piss the Whitehills (that outnumber House Forrester) and it will endanger Ryon and House Forrester.
You're obviously not wrong, the point is, the way we play this game is just diffirent. I'm going to try and make peace with Whitehills - mostly to protect my people from a new war, and maiming Gryff is not going to help me with this. For me ensuring, that my house won't be dragged into war is more important, than creating a reputation of some sort - which can also be not the wisest move, because reputation can be really important in Westeors and can serve your house as a sort of protection. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do both, so I have to pick one - obviously, there are people who will pick another. So, I don't think that any of us is totally right or wrong.
Ok, first of all, I never once said that beating a restrained man constitutes bravery but, ok.
Being frightened of the repercussions for … moreexacting revenge, which is what most people are worrying about. While having the upperhand, at this point in the story, however IS cowardly. Or does anyone seriously believe holding Ludds son, what I'm assuming is a knight and almost twenty soldiers hostage is an inferior position to Ludds one Ryon? No, of course it isn't. As I've already said, failing to punish a man for serious insults against your house is idiotic.
I mean, honestly, name one lord that would allow the shit Gryff pulled without punishing him and still save face not only in front of his enemies but his allies as well. By not delivering retribution he shows himself a weak man that will let anyone stroll into his keep do whatever the hell they please and still get off scott free.
Yeah, alright, I get that. I just couldn't understand why so many people wouldn't take advantage of the situations we where given. Though i guess that might've been TTs plan.
"Oh, look at all this handy shit we're giving you! Take advantage of it right away! "
Then Deus-ex Ramsey shows up at the end to give us the middle finger.
"LOL, JK, we can't have you getting ahead of yourself, silly player."
I still think creating conflict out of no where like that is stupid as shit, and just plain lazy, but whatever. We'll see how we fare next episode.
Also, I seriously doubt TT won't let us work towards peace even if we bashed Gryff. Besides any sort of peace between these families, in this generation at least, is bound to be tense as hell. Regardless of our choices when handling petulant fourth borns.
You're obviously not wrong, the point is, the way we play this game is just diffirent. I'm going to try and make peace with Whitehills - mos… moretly to protect my people from a new war, and maiming Gryff is not going to help me with this. For me ensuring, that my house won't be dragged into war is more important, than creating a reputation of some sort - which can also be not the wisest move, because reputation can be really important in Westeors and can serve your house as a sort of protection. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do both, so I have to pick one - obviously, there are people who will pick another. So, I don't think that any of us is totally right or wrong.
You didn't know that Ludd needed you when you had the option to beat Gryff, and for what I understood almost all the Forrester army died at The Twins and fled after Ethan's death so now our "army" is Royland, 20 Glenmore soldiers (that probably are dead), and maybe 5 Forrester man? That makes 26 soldiers and I am pretty sure that the Whitehill have way more. So AT THE TIME, it wasn't the wisest choice.
OBVIOUSLY house Forrester, at this point in the story has more leverage than the Whitehills or does having Ludds son, the knight, and almost… more 20 men worth of hostages not count? Not to mention the reason Ludd called you to Highpoint is literally to let you know the Whitehills are falling out of favor with the Boltons, because of their inability to produce quality ironwood materials, and they need you to pick up the slack to pull their asses out of the fire.
Seriously, how did this position become so popular?
The only reason our plans went to shit is because of the stupid ass Deus-ex Ramsey end. Otherwise we'd have traded Ryon for Gryff and probably kept the knight and soldiers as some kind of insurance. Then lord our superior workmanship to make sure they don't get too upity.
That's just it. It would be so drama that it'd be cool. Rodrik banging Gwyn for the first time and right then Asher walks in, "Where's my big brother?" his jaw drops to the floor... Gwyn: "big is right!", Beska from the background "told ya we should have stayed in Mereen" (fake audience laughs - Seinfeld exit music hits)
You have the advantage even before going to Highpoint. In no world does a lords son, an apparent knight, and almost twenty men = disadvantage, when weighed against his one hostage. And your absolutely right we didn't know that before but now we do and Ludd still doesn't know anything about Gryff other than he's been removed from power and is in a dungeon, which still leaves us on top. Also, Ludd obviously does not have the man power to take Ironrath by force, yet. Otherwise running around Kings Landing wasting gold looking for sell sword to hire would be pointless. It could be he wants the sellswords to do the dying instead of his men when he marches on the Forrester's home but I doubt it. The man has, so far, been characterized as a vain boastful fool. A man like that would never allow sell swords to steal HIS glory.
The only reason any of our plans might mean fuck all now is because the writers got lazy and decided to throw in Ramsey as a fast and easy way to create conflict.
You didn't know that Ludd needed you when you had the option to beat Gryff, and for what I understood almost all the Forrester army died at … moreThe Twins and fled after Ethan's death so now our "army" is Royland, 20 Glenmore soldiers (that probably are dead), and maybe 5 Forrester man? That makes 26 soldiers and I am pretty sure that the Whitehill have way more. So AT THE TIME, it wasn't the wisest choice.
I never said she would like it. And my goal is to make the Forresters as powerful as possible and to crush their enemies. But will telltale let us do it i doubt it.
I agree the Ramsey thing just came to ruin us,but still Ludd will react when he discover that Gryff is blind. I don't think beat him a bit like 3 times will piss Ludd that much but if you give him his son blind he will act, not necessarily start a war but he might hurt Ryon. Of course I doubt the trade will even occur since we have Ramsey in our house, I think he will prejudice both houses, and it will make them unite (I don't like it but it is what I think will happen).
You have the advantage even before going to Highpoint. In no world does a lords son, an apparent knight, and almost twenty men = disadvantag… moree, when weighed against his one hostage. And your absolutely right we didn't know that before but now we do and Ludd still doesn't know anything about Gryff other than he's been removed from power and is in a dungeon, which still leaves us on top. Also, Ludd obviously does not have the man power to take Ironrath by force, yet. Otherwise running around Kings Landing wasting gold looking for sell sword to hire would be pointless. It could be he wants the sellswords to do the dying instead of his men when he marches on the Forrester's home but I doubt it. The man has, so far, been characterized as a vain boastful fool. A man like that would never allow sell swords to steal HIS glory.
The only reason any of our plans might mean fuck all now is because the writers got lazy and decided to throw in Ramsey as a fast and easy way to create conflict.
Oh he'll get angry for sure and even if he does you still got him by the balls, sorta, maybe. If he notices something is really wrong with his son before the trade and starts getting to crazy, you still have Gryff and his men hostage. If he notices after, then what does it matter? The trade will have already happened and Ryon would be with you.
I never actually considered the trade being called off.
I figured with Ramsay at Ironrath he would 'want to do the lordly' thing and witness the exchange to make sure 'nothing goes wrong' then fuck it all up anyway, because apparently thats the only kind of shit Ramsay is good for.
I agree the Ramsey thing just came to ruin us,but still Ludd will react when he discover that Gryff is blind. I don't think beat him a bit l… moreike 3 times will piss Ludd that much but if you give him his son blind he will act, not necessarily start a war but he might hurt Ryon. Of course I doubt the trade will even occur since we have Ramsey in our house, I think he will prejudice both houses, and it will make them unite (I don't like it but it is what I think will happen).
As more time has gone on, I'm pretty sure you're on to something. I'm starting to think she used to love Rodrick, but basically left him for Gryff's brother. Hell she might already be married to him. I feel the same about the beat down, as she didn't seem to care at all. It seemed odd. Maybe she just used Rodrick for something.
I find Elaene sassy, she annoys me and I don't trust her. She told me to go fuck myself when she thought that marrying me wasn't practical e… morenough for her, but now she needs my help - and suddenly it's all about "let's play hide and seek in the groove again". Also, this might not meet any appreciation, but her reaction to Rodrick beating up Gryff disturbed me a lot. Yes, he isn't the most pleasant guy, but as far as I am concerned, he haven't done her any real harm so far (correct me if I'm wrong) - but she is already okay with him being beaten to the point of loosing an eye, while being restrained and defensless. Hell, she enjoys it so much. Though, considering how much Gryff is hated by most of people, I don't expect anybody to agree with me here.
Right? I wanted Gryff to see what it was like to be on the receiving end of it, maybe he'll learn to pick his fights better or avoid them altogether now on account of wanting to keep his one remaining eye.
I actually like Elaena, I knew she was the perfect match for my Rodrik with her comment "I think he wants more!" when you were beating Gryff. I'd like Gwyn and Asher to go together even if it's unlikely (especially with Asher never, ever coming back from Essos.)
The Ironwood forrest isn't the only Ironwood my Rodrik wants to give her, har har am I right?
... I'll see myself out.
I actually like Elaena, I knew she was the perfect match for my Rodrik with her comment "I think he wants more!" when you were beating Gryff… more. I'd like Gwyn and Asher to go together even if it's unlikely (especially with Asher never, ever coming back from Essos.)
The Ironwood forrest isn't the only Ironwood my Rodrik wants to give her, har har am I right?
... I'll see myself out.
Comments
I think Gwyn is just trying to sow discomfort and hostility in the Forrester family. #Rodraena
I'd rather leave Gwyn to Asher.
I wonder what people say of Lord Tytos, a man who never truly defended his families honor and let even the largest of insults go unpunished. I wonder how long it will take for them to say similar things of a Rodrik that balks at justified retribution. Also I suppose your reasoning that no lord can allow himself to beat defenceless men is why many of them employ torturers in their dungeons.
I seriously can't believe your applying the Starks and the northmen's stupid ass concept of honor here. Because that's worked out so well for them, right?
Don't forget Ludds eldest son is still running around, Highpoint all its lands and its people will pass to him upon Ludds death. If he doesn't agree to the marriage and you kill him the Whitehill name and house dies with him, unless he's got male heirs. Gwyn inherits nothing even if she marries Asher and Highpoint is given to him as a fief, and handing out fiefs is something only Roose as Warden or Tommen as king can do. Rodrik would have no say in whether or not he gets to keep the castle.
Long story short - maiming Gryff is not going to go help my family. Like, for real. If it could somehow improve our situation, I'd agree, that you have a point. But it can't. Thing is, not maiming him is not dangerous for my family at all - so I can afford myself a luxuryy of being honorable.
you cant hit on the ex of your bro
I agree that it doesn't help in anyway and is actually quite dangerous for the Forresters.
But not doing anything to the man that threatened to kill your sister, beats you outside your hall, allowed his men to mock the former lord INSIDE his own hall, treats your people like shit than takes a maester and brutalizes him in your hall in front of you. Will not be seen as honorable by anyone. It'll be seen as a cowardly lack of strenght. Any man who allows another to get away with even one of these things without repercussions has no businesse being a lord.
How can beating a defensless man show anyone, that you are brave? I honestly don't get. It can be good as a revenge - but how can it be a proof of bravery? Do people actually think, that Rodrick did not beat a defensless and restrained person because he was afraid of him? What's there to be afraid of - getting your floor dirty? Breaking your cane? It may be considered as a wrong move by a lot of people - but why do you think "cowardly" is a right word to explain why exactly it is wrong?
Well, you can......but it won't end well =p.
thats true
just imagine asher coming back and rodrik: haaaayyy... good to see you brother! btw, i am gonna marry your old girl lmao
Lets think of this case: House Forrester has not enough man to stop the Whitehills from ruining them and House Whitehill holds their son as hostage, OBVIOUSLY the wisest thing to do is NOT beat his son and make him blind, it will piss the Whitehills (that outnumber House Forrester) and it will endanger Ryon and House Forrester.
Good point.
I used to want Asher and Gywn together until I read on someones post that Asher is actually is Ludds half son with Elissa. I'm not sure if its true, but it does explain why hes blonde and why the families were so bothered by it.
oh.. that would be really awkward .
Ok, first of all, I never once said that beating a restrained man constitutes bravery but, ok.
Being frightened of the repercussions for exacting revenge, which is what most people are worrying about. While having the upperhand, at this point in the story, however IS cowardly. Or does anyone seriously believe holding Ludds son, what I'm assuming is a knight and almost twenty soldiers hostage is an inferior position to Ludds one Ryon? No, of course it isn't. As I've already said, failing to punish a man for serious insults against your house is idiotic.
I mean, honestly, name one lord that would allow the shit Gryff pulled without punishing him and still save face not only in front of his enemies but his allies as well. By not delivering retribution he shows himself a weak man that will let anyone stroll into his keep do whatever the hell they please and still get off scott free.
OBVIOUSLY house Forrester, at this point in the story has more leverage than the Whitehills or does having Ludds son, the knight, and almost 20 men worth of hostages not count? Not to mention the reason Ludd called you to Highpoint is literally to let you know the Whitehills are falling out of favor with the Boltons, because of their inability to produce quality ironwood materials, and they need you to pick up the slack to pull their asses out of the fire.
Seriously, how did this position become so popular?
The only reason our plans went to shit is because of the stupid ass Deus-ex Ramsey end. Otherwise we'd have traded Ryon for Gryff and probably kept the knight and soldiers as some kind of insurance. Then lord our superior workmanship to make sure they don't get too upity.
You're obviously not wrong, the point is, the way we play this game is just diffirent. I'm going to try and make peace with Whitehills - mostly to protect my people from a new war, and maiming Gryff is not going to help me with this. For me ensuring, that my house won't be dragged into war is more important, than creating a reputation of some sort - which can also be not the wisest move, because reputation can be really important in Westeors and can serve your house as a sort of protection. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do both, so I have to pick one - obviously, there are people who will pick another. So, I don't think that any of us is totally right or wrong.
Yeah, alright, I get that. I just couldn't understand why so many people wouldn't take advantage of the situations we where given. Though i guess that might've been TTs plan.
"Oh, look at all this handy shit we're giving you! Take advantage of it right away! "
Then Deus-ex Ramsey shows up at the end to give us the middle finger.
"LOL, JK, we can't have you getting ahead of yourself, silly player."
I still think creating conflict out of no where like that is stupid as shit, and just plain lazy, but whatever. We'll see how we fare next episode.
Also, I seriously doubt TT won't let us work towards peace even if we bashed Gryff. Besides any sort of peace between these families, in this generation at least, is bound to be tense as hell. Regardless of our choices when handling petulant fourth borns.
You didn't know that Ludd needed you when you had the option to beat Gryff, and for what I understood almost all the Forrester army died at The Twins and fled after Ethan's death so now our "army" is Royland, 20 Glenmore soldiers (that probably are dead), and maybe 5 Forrester man? That makes 26 soldiers and I am pretty sure that the Whitehill have way more. So AT THE TIME, it wasn't the wisest choice.
That's just it. It would be so drama that it'd be cool. Rodrik banging Gwyn for the first time and right then Asher walks in, "Where's my big brother?" his jaw drops to the floor... Gwyn: "big is right!", Beska from the background "told ya we should have stayed in Mereen" (fake audience laughs - Seinfeld exit music hits)
The most logical would be to kill all the male Whitehills and marry Gwyn to Asher .
You have the advantage even before going to Highpoint. In no world does a lords son, an apparent knight, and almost twenty men = disadvantage, when weighed against his one hostage. And your absolutely right we didn't know that before but now we do and Ludd still doesn't know anything about Gryff other than he's been removed from power and is in a dungeon, which still leaves us on top. Also, Ludd obviously does not have the man power to take Ironrath by force, yet. Otherwise running around Kings Landing wasting gold looking for sell sword to hire would be pointless. It could be he wants the sellswords to do the dying instead of his men when he marches on the Forrester's home but I doubt it. The man has, so far, been characterized as a vain boastful fool. A man like that would never allow sell swords to steal HIS glory.
The only reason any of our plans might mean fuck all now is because the writers got lazy and decided to throw in Ramsey as a fast and easy way to create conflict.
I think murdering all her brothers and her father will be a slight turn off for Gwyn. Slight. Unless you wanna make the Forresters like the Lannisters
If it really happens, the most logical thing for Gwyn to do will be stabbing Asher in his sleep. I certainly wouldn't judge her for that.
I never said she would like it. And my goal is to make the Forresters as powerful as possible and to crush their enemies. But will telltale let us do it i doubt it.
You are right the most logical would be to kill them all and take their land and castle. Wishful thinking i know but one can hope.
I agree the Ramsey thing just came to ruin us,but still Ludd will react when he discover that Gryff is blind. I don't think beat him a bit like 3 times will piss Ludd that much but if you give him his son blind he will act, not necessarily start a war but he might hurt Ryon. Of course I doubt the trade will even occur since we have Ramsey in our house, I think he will prejudice both houses, and it will make them unite (I don't like it but it is what I think will happen).
Oh he'll get angry for sure and even if he does you still got him by the balls, sorta, maybe. If he notices something is really wrong with his son before the trade and starts getting to crazy, you still have Gryff and his men hostage. If he notices after, then what does it matter? The trade will have already happened and Ryon would be with you.
I never actually considered the trade being called off.
I figured with Ramsay at Ironrath he would 'want to do the lordly' thing and witness the exchange to make sure 'nothing goes wrong' then fuck it all up anyway, because apparently thats the only kind of shit Ramsay is good for.
As more time has gone on, I'm pretty sure you're on to something. I'm starting to think she used to love Rodrick, but basically left him for Gryff's brother. Hell she might already be married to him. I feel the same about the beat down, as she didn't seem to care at all. It seemed odd. Maybe she just used Rodrick for something.
Right? I wanted Gryff to see what it was like to be on the receiving end of it, maybe he'll learn to pick his fights better or avoid them altogether now on account of wanting to keep his one remaining eye.
I actually like Elaena, I knew she was the perfect match for my Rodrik with her comment "I think he wants more!" when you were beating Gryff. I'd like Gwyn and Asher to go together even if it's unlikely (especially with Asher never, ever coming back from Essos.)
The Ironwood forrest isn't the only Ironwood my Rodrik wants to give her, har har am I right?
... I'll see myself out.
The crowd is dead silent, except for one anemic clap in the background.
This is game of thrones.
Incest is nothing.
FFS look at Craster...