Dany
I recently replayed episode 4 and when I did the Asher Mereen missions I followed Crofts orders precisely. I mean let's be honest beshska is kind of a hooligan with her requests. Anyways my question is if you follow all of crofts commands to a T, what reason does Dany have to be upset with you in episode 5?
I can't remember exactly but in the preview doesn't dany mentions we're not a good leader and tries to use that against us? I hope that Croct would speak up for us if we did follow his commands because there were multiple "croft will remember that" moments.
What do you guys think Danys reasoning would be to screw you over on the sellswords if you follow everything you told her to do?
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You may remember Daenerys said "I will see that you are rewarded" she never said she'd give us any sellswords. Anyway Daenerys may notice Beskhas disdain towards Asher and make the connection that those who follow him have no respect for him and worry what kind of leader he is maybe she's worried that she would be handing a small army to a bad leader and fears they'll all get killed under Ashers command. Daenerys is clearly going to criticise Asher but that doesn't mean she's going to screw him over.
Dany doesn't give a shit about anyones problems but her own, or those she considers her own. She'll screw us over and make it seem like our own fault as fast as she can.
You'd think she would have learned the value of helping others when she was a little beggar bitch, or you know, when her brother sold her.
The thing that really pissed me off about her interaction with Asher, was even if you tell her exactly why you need the sellswords (family in peril), she acts like this is a ridiculous request and why would she even consider it? But that is Exactly the bullshit she has been spouting about Her family's legacy and her precious Iron Throne and everything she has 'inherited' in Westeros because of said family (who have all been dead for 15 years.) Dany is one of the biggest hypocrites in the Song of Ice and Fire, closely followed by Stannis.
Good question if you follow all of Croft's orders. If you let Beshka kill her old master (as I did), Dany will probably act like she's going to leave you high and dry until you explain that Beshka is a former slave.
Because Dany is stupid and always has been? "Fairness" and "Justice" aren't concepts she understands as well as she likes to think she does.
"Dany doesn't give a shit about anyones problems but her own, or those she considers her own."
Do any of the lords of Westeros really give a shit about anyone's problems but their own? They would have fucked Asher too. Cersei would probly come up with some bullshit lie, Tywin wouldn't give 2 shits about Asher, unless rewarding him serves some kind of purpose for him, and the same goes for Stannis. Renly or Mance might have done the selfless thing maybe. Perhaps Margaery and Olenna too.
Point is, no matter how much ppl convince themselves they do the things they do to benefit others, only serves to benefit themselves. I think that goes for most people, whether they are from a fictional world, or the real world
Dany is a child playing at being a queen.
At least Stannis followed the call of the nights watch and helped them against the wildlings, while all the others played the game of thrones. With all the people that are/were left in season 5 which claim the ironthrone I would have wanted Stannis to rule them. He saw the real threat coming from the north. But then he became kinda obsessed with the lord of light and Melisandre. At the end he did some really stupid things, but prior he was on the best way to be a fair king.
But I totally agree with everything you said about Dany.
IMO the only one who deserves praise for helping the Night's Watch is Davos. If he hadn't brought the letter to Stannis' attention, it would've sat in the pile of other correspondance that Stannis thought was beneath his notice and his time.
I cannot get behind Stannis, sorry. Religious Zealots are just not okay with me.
In my opinion they do. At least some of them do. Ned did. Tyrion did at times, to a point. Howland Reed does, as well as most of the Northern lords. Jon does.
But, i get your point, Asher could have gone to anyone for help and been turned down, unless it benefited the other party as well. And i agree with you, but, Dany could benefit from having a Northern House in Westeros who is loyal to her, when she finally gets there.
It's mostly the part where Dany has been asking anyone and everyone she meets for aid, or ships, or food for her freedmen - but she won't even consider that someone elses plea for aid (for their family), may be as valid or more so than her own. She still styles herself Queen of the 7 Kingdoms, the Andal, the Rhoynar and the First Men. Well, here is a First Man, asking his Queen for aid, and she claims her random ex-slaves welfare is more important to her.
If I were her, i would foster good relations with my Westerosi subjects in any way i could. Not alienate them. But that's just me.
Dany's got 99 problems and a Forrester a'int one.
Davos is a good man, but hes Stannis hand and his duty is to help his "king". imo Stannis as king and Davos as his hand would have been a relatively good solution, especially if you see the alternatives.
I didnt liked Stannis at the beginning. Later I saw he was at least not as "evil" as some other people, I saw him as neutral then, neither good or bad. And the moment he came to help against the wildlings I began to like him, that was one of best scenes in the show imo. And seeing him treating Jon Snow with respect, offering him to become a "true" Stark and warden of the north was just great, even though Jon declined. And then promising Roose Boltons head on a pike was awesome as well. Real sad how things developed after that. If Jon and Stannis are really dead I lost two of my favourite characters. The only ones remaining I really like are Bran, Tyrion and Sansa and maybe Theon, I also like the Tyrells but the show hasnt shown very much how they really are, would love to see more private talks of them. I guess the books will show what I want to know, Iam gonna read them soon^^.
Sorry for the off-topic talk, but I wanted to speak that out.
Yeah she's rather stupid like that. In season five she was told it might be better to stay in Mereen, because of lack of support.
Some help and support (no matter how little) in a place you know nothing about is better than none.
The actual reason is because the choices don't do much impact like Tales. Certain scenes happen because plot, so even though followed the orders, the plot demands that Dany must be a bitch, weakening her character
No arya "the mini lightning strike" stark
My thoughts exactly.
If she's going to stay in Mereen forever that's one thing. But if she ever plans to move forward to Westeros.... she's kinda screwing herself. Or maybe she thinks like Stannis and just assumes that the Westerosi will do their DUTY by her without any reason besides - she may be the rightful ruler?
You should definitely read the books. They're a thousand times better than the show.
I understand your reasoning about Stannis, but i'd like to point out that the only reason he offered Winterfell to Jon and tried to give him the Stark name is because he (stannis) needed Jon and wanted to Use him to rally the North. Which he couldn't do on his own. If Jon had taken that deal, he would've had to forsake his Gods and burn his family's Heart Tree. Jon probably would have been assassinated sooner - by Northmen. Jon has NO rights to Winterfell unless and untill Robbs will is read and enforced by his subjects.
I don't think Book Stannis would do that. He's pretty blatantly atheist and did those things only on Dragonstone to appease Melisandre, his religious soldiers, and his wife. Plus he leaves Melisandre at the Wall and half his army at the moment don't follow the Red God. You're right about his need for Jon though, he's very pragmatic.
He did, it was part of the deal that Stannis offered Jon. He would have to burn the Heart Tree and renounce his Gods, to claim Winterfell. He did the same at Storm's End, he made the Wildlings that he let through do it too.
He only said what you have quoted above, after the Northern Clans had joined with him, and they made it clear that the Gods of the North were the Old Ones. Stannis NEEDED them, and didn't want to offend them. So he said no burnings.
I will read them. So many people are saying they are better than the show. But I dont like these comparisons, imo these are 2 different things. Books always have way more details, tv shows have more action. I admit I have a few problems with reading, Iam not a good reader and I cant imagine places that well with only words. Thats why I dont read so much and like watching this show. But I want to know all the details and will definetly try the books.
I think I agree with you about the things you said about Stannis, but I think he also offered Winterfell to Jon because this would have been "fair" for the Starks and the north, at leasts thats what I think. Although I didnt knew about this last will and forsake the Gods story, that changes things. Was that in the show? I cant remember. Still I think he "would have" been a relatively good king, except for the stupid things he did at the end of course.
Iam curious, can I ask you a question? I would like to know who would be the best king/queen in your opinion. Of course just people who really have chances to get there one day.
I'm not sure if they put the stuff about burning the Heart Tree in the show, but i'm pretty sure Robb's Will and Heir were mentioned, right before the Red Wedding. But i admit that i mostly operate on book information, not the show. I haven't seen season 5 yet at all, just heard some things, so i am aware of the major plot differences.
As to your question about Kings, i think it's really hard to tell what a person will do once they get that much power, without seeing them with it first. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that rot.
But IMO, Jon would make a good king. He doesn't play favorites, or give promotions based on anything but how good a person is at a job. He is able to put aside slights to his person, and prejudices that he was raised to believe (wildlings), for the greater good of the Night's Watch and the whole of Westeros. He sees that things are out of whack within accepted power structures and works to right what he can.
He knows that he knows nothing, and is willing to accept advice and aid from those who are wiser than he is. Jon also has a very honorable demeanor, like Ned did, and that implied trustworthy-ness carries over as well. He treats people fairly, and brokers alliances where no one would have thought to look for one, while making sure to ruffle the least amount of feathers possible.
Jon is my vote. But i think in this story there is room for an alliance of more than one Ruler of Westeros. I was thinking about it when reading about the Triarchs of Old Volantis, how if one was mad or cruel, the other two would restrain him (not physically but his power) until his term was up. What if the Three Heads of the Dragon are 3 Kings/Queens of Westeros?
Jon in the North as the Ice Dragon
Danaerys at Kings Landing in her Father's Seat
unsure who the Third Head is, but possibly (F)Aegon (who, i am all but certain is a Blackfyre - but as Illyrio said, 'a dragon is a dragon, black or red.' So he could still be in the running.)
Thank you for your opinion, I like it^^. I think Jon would be good as well. But if he will be revived at Castle Black he will lose some of his memories and could lose the will to live just like Beric.
Yeah I heared about that, and I like that theory. The third one could also be Bran, since Jon could be connection between Bran (Stark) and Dany (Targaryen) cause Jon could be both (Stark+Targaryen). Imagine Bran controlling an Ice Dragon (if thery really exist). I really hope Bran has an important role, I like him and hope his story has a higher purpose. And seeing him falling from that tower and knowing he will never walk again is really sad, I hope he will see some good things in his life again.
No problem N8eule, it's always nice to have a civil conversation with someone who wants to hear what you have to say!
Yeah, alot of Jon's potential hangs in the balance right now. He could be great. But, he might be dead, he may come back different - harsher, his motivations may have changed - or, like you said he could come back like Beric and completely forget all the things that made him Jon in the first place. Or, he could be a Wolf for most of the book and kindof unqualified to take up leadership for a while, lol.
I like your thoughts on Bran possibly being the Third Head, i love all the Starks, and Bran's story is definitely a heartbreaking one. He is absolutely going to be a major player going forward, but i'm not sure it will be in the Game of Thrones aspect. More that Bran is the only one capable of getting the information that the world will need. I see him as more of an advisor type i guess.
Unless, maybe the Children of the Forrest demand their own representative among the rulers of Westeros? If any of the Kings/Queens even think to ask them for aid, they may be obligated to barter for an alliance with them just to survive. It's a thought anyways
Eh, her character wasn't particularly strong to begin with.