It's so sad watching the scene when you trust him at the end of Episode Two, then refuse to trust him in Episode Three. The voice acting is especially good for that part. You can tell he's really hurt. And I like that that seems to be the path that results in him being angriest with you, as opposed to trusting Fiona and not trusting him later. It fits in with his character and his strong hatred of betrayal.
I've definitely seen a few. I like that there are so many variations in he dialogue choices, depending on your previous decisions.
I can'… moret say that i know alot about Jack and his prior transgressions against Pandorans (or everyone really, it seems like), but he is extremely likeable and charming even when he's threatening you. There's hope i think, the longer he has to live 'inside' Rhys the better for his disposition.
He kind of makes me feel like a girl in a bad relationship. I want to help him, i feel like I can change him... If he'll only let me. Yeeesh. Handsome Jack is turning me into an idiot.
Oooh, i never thought to try that. I always figured, 'in for a penny....'
That sounds interesting though. I never tell Jack i don't trust him, cuz, well he's in my head and can control my body. So, yeah, it seems imperative to not piss him off too much.
I still have to do a playthrough where i royally piss Jack off, so, i guess i know which route to take now. Thanks!
It's so sad watching the scene when you trust him at the end of Episode Two, then refuse to trust him in Episode Three. The voice acting is… more especially good for that part. You can tell he's really hurt. And I like that that seems to be the path that results in him being angriest with you, as opposed to trusting Fiona and not trusting him later. It fits in with his character and his strong hatred of betrayal.
Oooh, i never thought to try that. I always figured, 'in for a penny....'
That sounds interesting though. I never tell Jack i don't trust… more him, cuz, well he's in my head and can control my body. So, yeah, it seems imperative to not piss him off too much.
I still have to do a playthrough where i royally piss Jack off, so, i guess i know which route to take now. Thanks!
They saw him kill four of his scientists based on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor, with absolutely no evidence to back it up (In fact, Gladstone mentioned multiple theories, each just as plausible, if not moreso, than there being another traitor). Including Gladstone himself who was the one who made Jack's robot army possible in the first place as well as the liberation of Helios. And right after he did that he remarked aloud that killing all four of them felt good. And they knew that he'd built a superweapon capable of literally blowing entire planets to pieces.
They were entirely justified in what they did. To do anything else and leave a humongous laser like that in the hands of someone who admitted he enjoyed killing people would be atrociously irresponsible.
I don't think they were. Destroying the laser was one thing, but they didn't need to try and kill him. He was in a bad way, but hardly beyond hope. And keep in mind that they also tried to murder the people with him.
They saw him kill four of his scientists based on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor, with absolutely no evidence to bac… morek it up (In fact, Gladstone mentioned multiple theories, each just as plausible, if not moreso, than there being another traitor). Including Gladstone himself who was the one who made Jack's robot army possible in the first place as well as the liberation of Helios. And right after he did that he remarked aloud that killing all four of them felt good. And they knew that he'd built a superweapon capable of literally blowing entire planets to pieces.
They were entirely justified in what they did. To do anything else and leave a humongous laser like that in the hands of someone who admitted he enjoyed killing people would be atrociously irresponsible.
Again, Jack admitted to taking pleasure in ending the lives of other people and built a huge laser that could end thousands of lives in the blink of an eye. I'd say he deserved to be destroyed along with the eye. As for Jack's Vault Hunters, two were staunchly on his side, one was a robot Jack himself had built, one was Jack's surgically altered body double, one was a rich snob (I don't have Aurelia in TPS, so I can't really comment much on her. The snobbiness is all I really know), and then there was the only relatively decent person on the team: Athena. But even Athena, the most moral of them all, at least tolerated that action. She didn't stop working for Jack after he proved himself to be a cold-blooded murderer so for all they knew, she would have informed Jack if they made her aware they were going to destroy the laser and try to kill him. It's very unfortunate they couldn't warn Athena but if they'd succeeded her death would have been a small, if tragic, price to pay for ensuring Jack couldn't use the laser or continue to build other weapons of mass destruction.
I don't think they were. Destroying the laser was one thing, but they didn't need to try and kill him. He was in a bad way, but hardly beyond hope. And keep in mind that they also tried to murder the people with him.
I stand by what I said. Jack was spiraling downward, but they didn't need to kill him because he COULD or MIGHT do something even worse. Destroying the laser was enough. Wasn't Timothy a fairly decent person too? He did not deserve to die. I'm not sure any of them did. Most of the people in this universe do things like Pre-Sequel Jack, and that includes Lilith and her friends.
Again, Jack admitted to taking pleasure in ending the lives of other people and built a huge laser that could end thousands of lives in the … moreblink of an eye. I'd say he deserved to be destroyed along with the eye. As for Jack's Vault Hunters, two were staunchly on his side, one was a robot Jack himself had built, one was Jack's surgically altered body double, one was a rich snob (I don't have Aurelia in TPS, so I can't really comment much on her. The snobbiness is all I really know), and then there was the only relatively decent person on the team: Athena. But even Athena, the most moral of them all, at least tolerated that action. She didn't stop working for Jack after he proved himself to be a cold-blooded murderer so for all they knew, she would have informed Jack if they made her aware they were going to destroy the laser and try to kill him. It's very unfortunate they couldn't warn Athena but if they'd succeeded her death would have been … [view original content]
And I stand by my opinion that Jack certainly did need to die, in addition to the destruction of the laser. Someone like that, who enjoys violence, would just build another superweapon. He built one, he can built another. At this point, remember, he also had an army of robots he could deploy anywhere at any time on the surface of Elpis or Pandora. As for Timothy, I've heard he's decent, but like Aurelia I don't have his DLC. But it was in his contract to protect Jack and, being Jack's body double and knowing nothing else about him, the VHs would assume he was on Jack's side (And they wouldn't be entirely wrong, because of that contract he signed). Timothy probably deserved to live as much as Athena did from what I've heard of him, but again, that small, tragic price would have saved a great deal of lives. Wilhelm and Nisha certainly deserved to die. Wilhelm is colder than an ice weapon and Nisha was even sexually aroused by Jack's murder of the four scientists. Not an exaggeration, she was turned on. Can't comment on Aurelia, as I said. Claptrap was annoying, if not exactly evil, and I hate him so I won't comment on him either. I know I'm biased when it comes to him.
I never said that the Vault Hunters were heroes for trying to kill Jack and his group of VHs, but given the circumstances they were justified in what they did, even though they shouldn't be celebrated for it even if it had worked.
I stand by what I said. Jack was spiraling downward, but they didn't need to kill him because he COULD or MIGHT do something even worse. D… moreestroying the laser was enough. Wasn't Timothy a fairly decent person too? He did not deserve to die. I'm not sure any of them did. Most of the people in this universe do things like Pre-Sequel Jack, and that includes Lilith and her friends.
On Pandora, just about EVERYONE enjoys violence, and doesn't that include Lilith and her friends? It's not right to just decide someone should die because that have some issues and could potentially do some really bad things, nor is it right to decide that the people with that person are acceptable sacrifices.
And I stand by my opinion that Jack certainly did need to die, in addition to the destruction of the laser. Someone like that, who enjoys vi… moreolence, would just build another superweapon. He built one, he can built another. At this point, remember, he also had an army of robots he could deploy anywhere at any time on the surface of Elpis or Pandora. As for Timothy, I've heard he's decent, but like Aurelia I don't have his DLC. But it was in his contract to protect Jack and, being Jack's body double and knowing nothing else about him, the VHs would assume he was on Jack's side (And they wouldn't be entirely wrong, because of that contract he signed). Timothy probably deserved to live as much as Athena did from what I've heard of him, but again, that small, tragic price would have saved a great deal of lives. Wilhelm and Nisha certainly deserved to die. Wilhelm is colder than an ice weapon and Nisha was even sexually aroused by Jack's murder of t… [view original content]
There are plenty of people on Pandora who are just normal people (Like the towns of Overlook and New Haven). And the people that do enjoy violence don't have planet-busting superlasers or massive robot armies at their disposal, or delusions that what they're doing is actually right and just.
Also, defending Jack by saying what the VHs did "Isn't right" just doesn't work. It wasn't right for Jack to lock his daughter away and pump her so full of Eridium that she eventually couldn't live without it, or to build the giant superlaser, or use his daughter to manipulate a group of people into unleashing an ancient monster onto Pandora so he could use it to construct said superlaser, or to vent four of his scientists into space based on paranoia alone even after they'd helped him deactivate Helios's defenses. That stuff alone was before the Eye was destroyed and they tried to kill him. He was doing things that weren't right far before he had his doomsday weapon taken away from him.
On Pandora, just about EVERYONE enjoys violence, and doesn't that include Lilith and her friends? It's not right to just decide someone sho… moreuld die because that have some issues and could potentially do some really bad things, nor is it right to decide that the people with that person are acceptable sacrifices.
The "normal" people definitely seem to be in the minority.
I'm not saying the stuff Jack did IS right, just that he didn't deserve to die for it at that point. And they didn't even know about some of the stuff you mention.
There are plenty of people on Pandora who are just normal people (Like the towns of Overlook and New Haven). And the people that do enjoy vi… moreolence don't have planet-busting superlasers or massive robot armies at their disposal, or delusions that what they're doing is actually right and just.
Also, defending Jack by saying what the VHs did "Isn't right" just doesn't work. It wasn't right for Jack to lock his daughter away and pump her so full of Eridium that she eventually couldn't live without it, or to build the giant superlaser, or use his daughter to manipulate a group of people into unleashing an ancient monster onto Pandora so he could use it to construct said superlaser, or to vent four of his scientists into space based on paranoia alone even after they'd helped him deactivate Helios's defenses. That stuff alone was before the Eye was destroyed and they tried to kill him. He was doing things that weren't right far before he had his doomsday weapon taken away from him.
I'm not saying they knew any of those things, I'm saying that the argument that they shouldn't have done it because "It wasn't right" falls flat on its face when they're trying to kill someone who has already done so many things that fall within the influence of "Not being right" as Jack had.
The "normal" people definitely seem to be in the minority.
I'm not saying the stuff Jack did IS right, just that he didn't deserve to die for it at that point. And they didn't even know about some of the stuff you mention.
I'm not saying they knew any of those things, I'm saying that the argument that they shouldn't have done it because "It wasn't right" falls … moreflat on its face when they're trying to kill someone who has already done so many things that fall within the influence of "Not being right" as Jack had.
I never claimed the Vault Hunters were saints. You're saying that what they're doing isn't right when Jack has already done so many things that are unquestionably bad and far worse than anything the Vault Hunters have ever done. You're defending a murderer by saying that killing isn't right.
I never claimed the Vault Hunters were saints. You're saying that what they're doing isn't right when Jack has already done so many things t… morehat are unquestionably bad and far worse than anything the Vault Hunters have ever done. You're defending a murderer by saying that killing isn't right.
They aren't worse. But evil isn't a competition and he shouldn't have evil deeds excused because he's done worse things that people don't know about. And what they know he's done is still pretty bad. Those scientists helped him build his robot army and they disabled the defenses of Helios so Jack could get to Zarpedon and take back the laser, just like Jack asked them to, but on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor he shot them all out of an airlock and let everyone know how much he enjoyed. Even though one of those scientists had continuously extolled the virtues of both Jack and Hyperion and was staunchly on his side. That is evil. It's not as evil as what he did to his daughter but it's enough to put him firmly in Bad Guy territory and make taking him out of the picture an actual option.
They aren't worse. But evil isn't a competition and he shouldn't have evil deeds excused because he's done worse things that people don't kn… moreow about. And what they know he's done is still pretty bad. Those scientists helped him build his robot army and they disabled the defenses of Helios so Jack could get to Zarpedon and take back the laser, just like Jack asked them to, but on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor he shot them all out of an airlock and let everyone know how much he enjoyed. Even though one of those scientists had continuously extolled the virtues of both Jack and Hyperion and was staunchly on his side. That is evil. It's not as evil as what he did to his daughter but it's enough to put him firmly in Bad Guy territory and make taking him out of the picture an actual option.
They are much better, though. The Vault Hunters are guns for hire and morally grey, true, but they don't kill innocent people based on speculation and paranoia. The people they kill invariably try to kill them first (The actual bandits on Pandora). They also don't have robot armies or giant death rays capable of killing thousands of people at once. They're far from Knights in Shining Armor but the things Jack does, even discounting the things they don't know about, are clearly worse than anything the VHs have ever done.
They are much better, though. The Vault Hunters are guns for hire and morally grey, true, but they don't kill innocent people based on specu… morelation and paranoia. The people they kill invariably try to kill them first (The actual bandits on Pandora). They also don't have robot armies or giant death rays capable of killing thousands of people at once. They're far from Knights in Shining Armor but the things Jack does, even discounting the things they don't know about, are clearly worse than anything the VHs have ever done.
That was really very sad, it makes Jack even more sympathetic in my eyes. He just needs someone to prove him wrong i think, and trust him - no matter what. Poor homicidal hologram
By the way, Robolution was definitly canon as Claptrap mentions it in BL2 and Pre-Sequel, but I'm not sure about the Zombie Island DLC. Dragonkeep was a more funky story being told, if I'm not mistaken? Slap me if I'm mistaken, I didn't get to play that one yet. Btw Claptrap was reprogrammed when he started the robolution, and it seems he cant access the memories of it properly without it being deleted. That's all I just remembered. [ascends into the sky]
I think Robolution, and also Zombie island for that matter, are uchronias of sort...
Or at least fictitious, by Pandora standards, as Dragonkeep for example.
You're right, Robolution is canon and part of the story, especially since there is a clue about it in TFTB.
it's not an uchronia of sort like I said above. In fact I realized that when I played TFTB all episodes in a row recently and forgot to "edit" the previous post where I made the mistake.
I -think- Zombie Island is on the same lvl of "imagination" like Dragonkeep is, but I'm not so sure even for that one now.
By the way, Robolution was definitly canon as Claptrap mentions it in BL2 and Pre-Sequel, but I'm not sure about the Zombie Island DLC. Drag… moreonkeep was a more funky story being told, if I'm not mistaken? Slap me if I'm mistaken, I didn't get to play that one yet. Btw Claptrap was reprogrammed when he started the robolution, and it seems he cant access the memories of it properly without it being deleted. That's all I just remembered. [ascends into the sky]
Wow, a lot of comments to reply to, but I think I will just add a general comment to the thread itself.
First and foremost, Jack cannot be trusted. Sure, AI Jack may say things that sound like he's trying to be good (or at least less evil), but Handsome Jack does so time and time again all through BL2, and it becomes even more transparent in TPS. He will say anything to manipulate and control the situation. He's a megalomaniac who feels that everyone else is beneath him, that he can lie, betray, torture, kill, and abuse anyone because he is on a level above everyone else. We see Jack telling Angel that he will "still forgive her" even after she finds a way to finally die and escape Jack's servitude. We see Jack having no qualms about getting back at Ro and Lil, for their supposed "betrayal," even though he originally put their lives at risk just so he can reap the benefits from the Vault of the Destroyer for just himself. All through the Claptastic Voyage DLC, we hear him whining about how he feels that he's doing all the work, and that he is entitled to everything the H-Source contains. Anything he says is questionable, as his intentions are always selfish and self-serving.
So if AI Jack is really a true digital copy of Jack, then it can't be trusted either.
As for Athena immediately killing AI Jack, I think AI Jack is just overreacting or being very cautious in regards to any of the Vault Hunters. Remember, Athena has always been a "good little soldier" for Jack, despite her disgust for his jobs. Jack probably doesn't think that Athena has a personal grudge against him, but Jack does know that when Athena is given a mission, she will continue the mission to its completion. And right now, he doesn't know if Athena has been given any missions in which would give her reason to immediately destroy him. Did Lilith hire Athena to do any Hyperion damage control since Jack's death? Could Athena inadvertently give the Crimson Raiders intel of his existence in Rhys' cybernetics?
Additionally, AI Jack has nothing to bargain with. Before, he had control of all of Hyperion's resources at his disposal. That is the only reason why Athena worked for Jack again in the Claptastic Voyage; she couldn't turn down Jack-size money despite her personal disgust with the job. Now, he doesn't even have a body which he fully controls, let alone all of his powers as the Hyperion CEO. Of course, I could just be giving the writers a little too much credit here, since they may have mixed Athena's personal relationship with Jack with Lilith's personal relationship with Jack.
Out of the main four protagonists, Sasha is probably the one that Jack wants to die the most (he's really the only one out of the four that he despises, based on the Jack-a-pedia entries). Makes me a little worried for her life.
They...
They wouldn't.. right?
Kill Vaughn and Sasha, I mean..
Telltale, pls.
I can handle Lee's death purely because he did everything he had to do.. but Sasha and Vaughn still have so much potential
At the time of the destroying the AI, he didn't plan on killing off Felicity. He would have created a copy of her if they had time. Even then he didn't destroy her personality until she tried to kill them. As for regret or feeling bad about his choice, that isn't evil as much as it is a personality trait. He made a decision and moves on. No time to reflect on emotions over it or going boo hoo. A personality trait in great leaders and Borderline personalities. Feels, other than anger, are a personal matter and they aren't going to give you the satisfaction of seeing them.
Yes I said he had reasons :
No matter if he's right or wrong because it will help save people, he anyway does it without any remorse.
… more
But I disagree in the fact he felt bad about it : he certainly didn't, he was so happy with his new toy and getting revenge.
There are indeed a lot of Jack's fans that are trying, left and right, to give him a good name and invent reasons here and there.
As far as I'm concerned, and as far as i remember, it's pretty clear he doesn't care at all about the AI, and never felt real genuine remorse about that.
About the stuff that made him start to fall in the darkside, it actually starts very early in the game (TPS) when he realizes he gets a lot of pleasure by killing. BUT also we know he has started doing attrocious things to his daughter during BL1 (we hear about that in BL2). So even though he looks to be a good guy in TPS, he in fact already started his descent to the dark side before that.
this AI is steadily becoming a very different Jack than the one we all are familiar with.
Really? Try to trust him in ep2 and then say that you won't work with him (in ep3 on the roof of the caravan) - you'll see what he really is. He hasn't changed a bit. All that talking about how you should trust him or at least work togehter are just that - a manipulation, classic one. That especially noticeable when you trusted him and aggreed to work together. It also very interesting to see his reaction when you say that you want to be on top and run Helios.
He's 1. not different from the "real" Jack at all and he learned nothing from his death really (maybe aside from the fact he needs to be more careful around people) 2. will gladly shoot you in the back when he won't need you anymore.
Well, most people agree that the AI is based on BL2 Jack, and as of Episode 3, he has apparently remembered the events of his death. I definitely think he is becoming a better/different person, though.
You are 100% right, I swear like 75% of the players who played this game have fell for Jacks bullshit, We'll see, it wont end well for those who trusted him. I love Jack, I think he's the best "bad guy" in video games right now, its just after everything he's done, I just can't see him being a guy who is gonna full fill Rhys's wishes, I think he'll betray him the second he gets a chance. I believe either way Jack will win in the end which will cause the hate between Fiona and Rhys, very excited to find out when eps 4 releases.
People are just assuming he is manipulating you during these scenes. I don't buy it, because his behavior seems genuine, and why pretend to be upset then threaten you?
this AI is steadily becoming a very different Jack than the one we all are familiar with.
Really? Try to trust him in ep2 and then s… moreay that you won't work with him (in ep3 on the roof of the caravan) - you'll see what he really is. He hasn't changed a bit. All that talking about how you should trust him or at least work togehter are just that - a manipulation, classic one. That especially noticeable when you trusted him and aggreed to work together. It also very interesting to see his reaction when you say that you want to be on top and run Helios.
He's 1. not different from the "real" Jack at all and he learned nothing from his death really (maybe aside from the fact he needs to be more careful around people) 2. will gladly shoot you in the back when he won't need you anymore.
Comments
It's so sad watching the scene when you trust him at the end of Episode Two, then refuse to trust him in Episode Three. The voice acting is especially good for that part. You can tell he's really hurt. And I like that that seems to be the path that results in him being angriest with you, as opposed to trusting Fiona and not trusting him later. It fits in with his character and his strong hatred of betrayal.
Oooh, i never thought to try that. I always figured, 'in for a penny....'
That sounds interesting though. I never tell Jack i don't trust him, cuz, well he's in my head and can control my body. So, yeah, it seems imperative to not piss him off too much.
I still have to do a playthrough where i royally piss Jack off, so, i guess i know which route to take now. Thanks!
Let me know your reaction!
Will do. I'll have to go home and play again tonite.
I swear by the time Ep.5 comes around i'll be able to recite the whole thing by heart.
To be fair to them, Jack was a psychopath that needed to be killed.
He was on a downward spiral, but he was far from Handsome Jack at that point.
They saw him kill four of his scientists based on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor, with absolutely no evidence to back it up (In fact, Gladstone mentioned multiple theories, each just as plausible, if not moreso, than there being another traitor). Including Gladstone himself who was the one who made Jack's robot army possible in the first place as well as the liberation of Helios. And right after he did that he remarked aloud that killing all four of them felt good. And they knew that he'd built a superweapon capable of literally blowing entire planets to pieces.
They were entirely justified in what they did. To do anything else and leave a humongous laser like that in the hands of someone who admitted he enjoyed killing people would be atrociously irresponsible.
I don't think they were. Destroying the laser was one thing, but they didn't need to try and kill him. He was in a bad way, but hardly beyond hope. And keep in mind that they also tried to murder the people with him.
Again, Jack admitted to taking pleasure in ending the lives of other people and built a huge laser that could end thousands of lives in the blink of an eye. I'd say he deserved to be destroyed along with the eye. As for Jack's Vault Hunters, two were staunchly on his side, one was a robot Jack himself had built, one was Jack's surgically altered body double, one was a rich snob (I don't have Aurelia in TPS, so I can't really comment much on her. The snobbiness is all I really know), and then there was the only relatively decent person on the team: Athena. But even Athena, the most moral of them all, at least tolerated that action. She didn't stop working for Jack after he proved himself to be a cold-blooded murderer so for all they knew, she would have informed Jack if they made her aware they were going to destroy the laser and try to kill him. It's very unfortunate they couldn't warn Athena but if they'd succeeded her death would have been a small, if tragic, price to pay for ensuring Jack couldn't use the laser or continue to build other weapons of mass destruction.
I stand by what I said. Jack was spiraling downward, but they didn't need to kill him because he COULD or MIGHT do something even worse. Destroying the laser was enough. Wasn't Timothy a fairly decent person too? He did not deserve to die. I'm not sure any of them did. Most of the people in this universe do things like Pre-Sequel Jack, and that includes Lilith and her friends.
Nisha may have matured a bit in the 3 years between TPS and BL2, but she wound up dead anyway.
Sasha will fare better, in my opinion.
And rich as hell.
And I stand by my opinion that Jack certainly did need to die, in addition to the destruction of the laser. Someone like that, who enjoys violence, would just build another superweapon. He built one, he can built another. At this point, remember, he also had an army of robots he could deploy anywhere at any time on the surface of Elpis or Pandora. As for Timothy, I've heard he's decent, but like Aurelia I don't have his DLC. But it was in his contract to protect Jack and, being Jack's body double and knowing nothing else about him, the VHs would assume he was on Jack's side (And they wouldn't be entirely wrong, because of that contract he signed). Timothy probably deserved to live as much as Athena did from what I've heard of him, but again, that small, tragic price would have saved a great deal of lives. Wilhelm and Nisha certainly deserved to die. Wilhelm is colder than an ice weapon and Nisha was even sexually aroused by Jack's murder of the four scientists. Not an exaggeration, she was turned on. Can't comment on Aurelia, as I said. Claptrap was annoying, if not exactly evil, and I hate him so I won't comment on him either. I know I'm biased when it comes to him.
I never said that the Vault Hunters were heroes for trying to kill Jack and his group of VHs, but given the circumstances they were justified in what they did, even though they shouldn't be celebrated for it even if it had worked.
On Pandora, just about EVERYONE enjoys violence, and doesn't that include Lilith and her friends? It's not right to just decide someone should die because that have some issues and could potentially do some really bad things, nor is it right to decide that the people with that person are acceptable sacrifices.
There are plenty of people on Pandora who are just normal people (Like the towns of Overlook and New Haven). And the people that do enjoy violence don't have planet-busting superlasers or massive robot armies at their disposal, or delusions that what they're doing is actually right and just.
Also, defending Jack by saying what the VHs did "Isn't right" just doesn't work. It wasn't right for Jack to lock his daughter away and pump her so full of Eridium that she eventually couldn't live without it, or to build the giant superlaser, or use his daughter to manipulate a group of people into unleashing an ancient monster onto Pandora so he could use it to construct said superlaser, or to vent four of his scientists into space based on paranoia alone even after they'd helped him deactivate Helios's defenses. That stuff alone was before the Eye was destroyed and they tried to kill him. He was doing things that weren't right far before he had his doomsday weapon taken away from him.
The "normal" people definitely seem to be in the minority.
I'm not saying the stuff Jack did IS right, just that he didn't deserve to die for it at that point. And they didn't even know about some of the stuff you mention.
I'm not saying they knew any of those things, I'm saying that the argument that they shouldn't have done it because "It wasn't right" falls flat on its face when they're trying to kill someone who has already done so many things that fall within the influence of "Not being right" as Jack had.
But the fact that they didn't know about those things matters, as does the fact that they weren't exactly saints either.
I never claimed the Vault Hunters were saints. You're saying that what they're doing isn't right when Jack has already done so many things that are unquestionably bad and far worse than anything the Vault Hunters have ever done. You're defending a murderer by saying that killing isn't right.
How much worse are the things they know he's done than the things they have done?
They aren't worse. But evil isn't a competition and he shouldn't have evil deeds excused because he's done worse things that people don't know about. And what they know he's done is still pretty bad. Those scientists helped him build his robot army and they disabled the defenses of Helios so Jack could get to Zarpedon and take back the laser, just like Jack asked them to, but on the mere suspicion that one of them might be a traitor he shot them all out of an airlock and let everyone know how much he enjoyed. Even though one of those scientists had continuously extolled the virtues of both Jack and Hyperion and was staunchly on his side. That is evil. It's not as evil as what he did to his daughter but it's enough to put him firmly in Bad Guy territory and make taking him out of the picture an actual option.
Jack was pretty troubled. And I stand by what I said. They're not much better, so who are they to decide it's okay to kill him?
They are much better, though. The Vault Hunters are guns for hire and morally grey, true, but they don't kill innocent people based on speculation and paranoia. The people they kill invariably try to kill them first (The actual bandits on Pandora). They also don't have robot armies or giant death rays capable of killing thousands of people at once. They're far from Knights in Shining Armor but the things Jack does, even discounting the things they don't know about, are clearly worse than anything the VHs have ever done.
I don't think that they are. We might never agree on this.
I don't think we will either.
Still, I admire you for sticking with your view, no matter how much I might disagree with it.
Oh my God. You were totally right!
That was really very sad, it makes Jack even more sympathetic in my eyes. He just needs someone to prove him wrong i think, and trust him - no matter what. Poor homicidal hologram
By the way, Robolution was definitly canon as Claptrap mentions it in BL2 and Pre-Sequel, but I'm not sure about the Zombie Island DLC. Dragonkeep was a more funky story being told, if I'm not mistaken? Slap me if I'm mistaken, I didn't get to play that one yet. Btw Claptrap was reprogrammed when he started the robolution, and it seems he cant access the memories of it properly without it being deleted. That's all I just remembered. [ascends into the sky]
You're right, Robolution is canon and part of the story, especially since there is a clue about it in TFTB.
it's not an uchronia of sort like I said above. In fact I realized that when I played TFTB all episodes in a row recently and forgot to "edit" the previous post where I made the mistake.
I -think- Zombie Island is on the same lvl of "imagination" like Dragonkeep is, but I'm not so sure even for that one now.
But yeah Robolution definitely happens.
"Is Handsome Jack gonna have to choke a bitch?"
Wow, a lot of comments to reply to, but I think I will just add a general comment to the thread itself.
First and foremost, Jack cannot be trusted. Sure, AI Jack may say things that sound like he's trying to be good (or at least less evil), but Handsome Jack does so time and time again all through BL2, and it becomes even more transparent in TPS. He will say anything to manipulate and control the situation. He's a megalomaniac who feels that everyone else is beneath him, that he can lie, betray, torture, kill, and abuse anyone because he is on a level above everyone else. We see Jack telling Angel that he will "still forgive her" even after she finds a way to finally die and escape Jack's servitude. We see Jack having no qualms about getting back at Ro and Lil, for their supposed "betrayal," even though he originally put their lives at risk just so he can reap the benefits from the Vault of the Destroyer for just himself. All through the Claptastic Voyage DLC, we hear him whining about how he feels that he's doing all the work, and that he is entitled to everything the H-Source contains. Anything he says is questionable, as his intentions are always selfish and self-serving.
So if AI Jack is really a true digital copy of Jack, then it can't be trusted either.
As for Athena immediately killing AI Jack, I think AI Jack is just overreacting or being very cautious in regards to any of the Vault Hunters. Remember, Athena has always been a "good little soldier" for Jack, despite her disgust for his jobs. Jack probably doesn't think that Athena has a personal grudge against him, but Jack does know that when Athena is given a mission, she will continue the mission to its completion. And right now, he doesn't know if Athena has been given any missions in which would give her reason to immediately destroy him. Did Lilith hire Athena to do any Hyperion damage control since Jack's death? Could Athena inadvertently give the Crimson Raiders intel of his existence in Rhys' cybernetics?
Additionally, AI Jack has nothing to bargain with. Before, he had control of all of Hyperion's resources at his disposal. That is the only reason why Athena worked for Jack again in the Claptastic Voyage; she couldn't turn down Jack-size money despite her personal disgust with the job. Now, he doesn't even have a body which he fully controls, let alone all of his powers as the Hyperion CEO. Of course, I could just be giving the writers a little too much credit here, since they may have mixed Athena's personal relationship with Jack with Lilith's personal relationship with Jack.
Handsome Jack doesn't "choke" people, he "strangles" them.
Out of the main four protagonists, Sasha is probably the one that Jack wants to die the most (he's really the only one out of the four that he despises, based on the Jack-a-pedia entries). Makes me a little worried for her life.
Sarah... Nick... Ben... Luke...
At the time of the destroying the AI, he didn't plan on killing off Felicity. He would have created a copy of her if they had time. Even then he didn't destroy her personality until she tried to kill them. As for regret or feeling bad about his choice, that isn't evil as much as it is a personality trait. He made a decision and moves on. No time to reflect on emotions over it or going boo hoo. A personality trait in great leaders and Borderline personalities. Feels, other than anger, are a personal matter and they aren't going to give you the satisfaction of seeing them.
Really? Try to trust him in ep2 and then say that you won't work with him (in ep3 on the roof of the caravan) - you'll see what he really is. He hasn't changed a bit. All that talking about how you should trust him or at least work togehter are just that - a manipulation, classic one. That especially noticeable when you trusted him and aggreed to work together. It also very interesting to see his reaction when you say that you want to be on top and run Helios.
He's 1. not different from the "real" Jack at all and he learned nothing from his death really (maybe aside from the fact he needs to be more careful around people) 2. will gladly shoot you in the back when he won't need you anymore.
This belief will be your downfall.
You are 100% right, I swear like 75% of the players who played this game have fell for Jacks bullshit, We'll see, it wont end well for those who trusted him. I love Jack, I think he's the best "bad guy" in video games right now, its just after everything he's done, I just can't see him being a guy who is gonna full fill Rhys's wishes, I think he'll betray him the second he gets a chance. I believe either way Jack will win in the end which will cause the hate between Fiona and Rhys, very excited to find out when eps 4 releases.
This.
But it will be a glorious downfall...
People are just assuming he is manipulating you during these scenes. I don't buy it, because his behavior seems genuine, and why pretend to be upset then threaten you?
Yep. "At least I got that going for me which is nice".