Telltale's worst decision (Episode 5)
Unfortunately, GoT series with such bug potential turned out to be a badly written slapstick...We can ignore lots of plot holes and countless millions of bugs and glitches because we’re enjoying George R. R. Martin’s universe and really love the characters Telltale created for the game. The Forresters have interesting story arcs, but now it’s absolutely clear that the game is not as good as it would have been.
The Glenmore elite guards appeared in Episode 4 out of thin air (and Rodrik and Elaena’s relationship doesn’t matter at all), and disappeared in the same way in Episode 5.
And please, is there someone to enjoy how they went through the traitor situation? By logics it should have been the Maester (who doesn’t even appear for an unknown reason). I can't believe that intense and interesting plot with a traitor turned out to be nothing... This 2 min speech about the necessity of betrayal is one of the worst plot twists I ever saw... No logical explanation at all, just a shock value (but it also turned out to be extremely stupid): "Hey, Rodrik, I’m the traitor just because I’m not your Sentinel and I don’t care if you have agreed with every decision I proposed during the game." I’m not even mentioning that both Duncan and Ser Royland are extremely loyal, and this betrayal is completely OOC. How could the writers who created such amazing characters and quite interesting story arc write something like that? It's not just a lazy writing; it makes zero sense at all. Honestly, it's as stupid as "Rodrik the traitor", "Ortengryn=Ebbert Whitehill" and "Harys the good guy" theories. And what exactly the traitor wanted to achieve by working with the Whitehills? He said he did this for the House. So why the hell he tried to destroy it? Seriously, it’s not even funny. The only possible way I see it that non-Sentinel has some kind of a mental disorder. Anyway, I just killed him cause this “You kill me, Asher is dead”–thing doesn’t mean shit – both Asher and Rodrik can’t survive. Poor drama. And if there’s going to be Season 2, the remaining brother is a dead man as well.
Scene with the Forrester brothers was meh – the House has already suffered enough and this traitor revealing spoiled everything. I know it’s Game of Thrones, “Valar morghulis”, a lot of characters are dead or will be, but George R. R. Martin not just kill his characters, he shows the consequences of each character’s decision. And for the game that poses to be “tailored by how you play” Telltale’s Game of Thrones failed to do so. If there will be any decision that matters, we’re going to face it during the last 5 minutes of the game (like The Walking Dead: Season 2). I hope, the Forrester’s story will end this season, I don’t want the remaining brother to die. I also noticed that everybody in this game has regeneration powers: Mira and Gared’s bruises, for example. But Gryff Whitehill seems to be even better at it – the guy managed to recreate his missing eye.
Comments
So basically, both people are backstabbers who are happy to sell out their house over a title...expect that one of them got what they wanted and see no reason to betray the Forresters while the other does because they weren't the one that were chosen as Sentinel.
As far as I'm concerned, both of them are scumbags.
I wish they would've made the traitor Ortengryn or Elissa, they were both the only ones none of the other characters suspected and it would of been much more interesting of a plot twist then "you picked him over me so fuck you"
One of the several lazy flaws wrong with this episode. In the most idiotic "beat around the bush" plot line the traitor is revealed in a shit fashion and is concluded in such. The writing really comes down to "Waah! WAAH! You picked him over me so I betrayed you!"
Yeah. Seriously, I'd rather have the obvious Maester as traitor than this.
Yeah, I have to admit, this was stupid. I would've liked it to be Elissa - it would've even made sense at some level. Or even Ortengryn, that would've maybe been a little boring solution but at least it wouldn't be utter stupidity.
Well most people were expecting Ortengryn or Elissa to be the traitor so it still came out as a surprise, at leas to me. Seeing our mother to be traitor is more of a weird idea than this if you ask me. (you can answer, "and who asked you")
I really did not like how they handled the traitor. Even if you go along with every single suggestion that one of them makes, if you don't pick them as the sentinel then that person will still betray you. What a jerk. Seriously, get over it you two.
In my second save, I picked Royland, took all of Duncan's advices, then he comes and calls me a fool. Fool, because I took his advices? It was funny though. But I kinda liked it, dispite the weird excuse for his actions (vice versa with Royland). I aslo noticed the difference how our mother reacts to them being as a traitor. [(sad if Duncan, not surprised if Royland) (probably of Gregor's and Dun's friendship...)]
This two suffer of Syndrome of Kenny guys, try to be comprehensive.
Not only that but they act completely out of character and inconsistent
i dont want to be harsh but thats what we get for keeping asking that our choices actually matters (not everybody but still). First time (almost) a choice matter (sentinel choice) and first time a TTG game has such a big plot hole. Lets wait patiently, dont add more presure to Telltale and hope they will continue to do the great job they've been doing all these years. Despite this, i think TTG - GOT its still great.
Lol mental disorder. I think they are very ambitious and jelaous. But of Course its badly written - they even have the same script, act the same way, talk the same way. Its weird. But the episode was good overall.
So blame fans who ask for more choice liberation? -_-
I want to be honest here okay? I feel that they rushed the whole episode.Seriously i mean Mira's part in this one looks like its getting completely pointless (in my opinion),Gared's story didint much went on, we STILL dont know what North Grove is, some parts of Rodrik's story were great and some of them made no sense (according to everyone else),the whole traitor thing was pathetic, i mean why could they just put the Maester it looks very promising for that role right?And even if we beat the fuck out of Gryff in episode 4 ,in the end he's completely fine, but out of all that AT LEAST it had a great ending.
That completely and utterly ruined the episode for me, and I didn't even play it yet. Nevermind the last decision, I saw that coming forever ago, but traitor being the one Ethan didn't pick for Sentinel was absolutely ridiculous.
And no, that is not an example of choices mattering. Choices mattering would be if ONE of them had this kind of personality and IF you didn't pick that one he would be the traitor, because that's who he is, but if you did pick him there would be no traitor (like, Gwyn would be lying, Ramsay would be the one to release Gryff, this kind of thing). "Choices mattering" doesn't mean "pick whoever you want because either of them will do exactly the same thing, on the exact same way, for the exact same reason". That's the complete opposite of that.
This was the worst route they could take because they ruined two characters at once, while leaving a lot of inconsistencies on their story.
Our choices do matter, Prince Lawrence's well being is determinant - TWAU. Getting help from Kenny if we help him kill Larry - TWD Season 1. Who goes with Tavia or stays at the camp (who will go with her, that will appear in Season 2) - TWD 400 Days. Carley or Doug - TWD. I don't want to spoil it, but TWD Season 2 had 5 different endings, we had to decide. The traitor - GOT. Malcolm or Beskha - GOT (Beskha was more friendly to Asher if we saved her or had her back instead of Croft's). Not HUGE outcomes, but they matter. Having Kenny as a bro or an enemy, why wouldn't that matter? Also, in TWAU - if we took care of the Crooked Man before we got back to the Witching well, everyone was pissed at us and it was hard to convince them to side with us. I agree our choices should matter more, but you can't say they don't matter. There will always be a little difference, even in converstations despite our choices.
But think of it this way: BIGGER different outcomes, the longer the episodes will take to come out.
Just curious.Does anyone think that this episode was weaker than episode 2 ?
Hell yeah it was.
Should have been Elissa, if only because so many players wanted the traitor dead and having it as a close family member would've made for a way more morally complex choice.
IMO the ending was great, but I missed the political part of the game (I love that the most), but I think they were equals - maybe because episode 1 was a little bit boring and episode 2 was really intense, then we got use to the intense parts of the game through the previous episodes, that's why this one was weaker to people. I personally loved it.
I still think of the possibility that Royland / duncan are concealing the real traitor but I guess that would be a little hard to explain
This is actually more obvious than the Maester theory if you think about it. Non-Sentinel is the guy you hurt in the butt the most.
I guess EvilDuncan only wants the North Grove for the Lulz.
Tbh I'm still feeling a little smug it wasn't Elissa as I was one of the few defending her on here, lol.
But yeah, I was a bit annoyed it wasn't the Maester. Seems maybe they made it the non sentinel as everyone predicted it was the Maester?
Oh also, this is an example of a choice having unexpected effects, which is what people wanted, I guess.
Fucking hell. I chose every damn peaceful, nonviolent option under the sun - let Gryff & Co. shit all over the Ironrath, didn't lay a finger on him or his idiots despite the soul-devouring temptation, stayed as calm/nice as possible while discussing with Ludd and Ramsay.
AND DUNCAN COMPLAINED ABOUT RODRIK BEING A MAN OF VIOLENCE.
fucking wat???
Traitor depends on who you choose to come with at Ludd's palace. Just FUCK. I choose Duncan as a sentinel and I choose Royland as a right hand-man at the palace. And I chose to kill Duncan cause he cursed Rodrik and said he was weak. Now Gared is gonna hate the Forresters, won't he? I knew I couldn't trust this penultimate episode.
I guess I'm the only one who didn't want the traitor to be the Maester. I don't feel any kind of connection to the Maester. If he was the traitor, I'd just kill him and move on. He's not very close to the main cast. There is no real added dynamic to the game with his presence. He tries to give wisdom in the earlier part of the season, but the stuff he said seemed like common knowledge to me. He was more of a Captain Obvious than a person in the shadows with great insight. The Maester is just there. He could have died earlier and I would not have batted an eye. He is just that: a maester.
While I understand that people are upset about the rapid character change in the person who is the traitor, I feel like this was the only logical choice (for what we had in the game so far). Every other possibility to me would have either brought more confusion via character plot holes or would have been someone whose life I could care less about. The back stories for the traitor could have been a little bit better and organized, but it is not that bad. I think it's better than the stealing choice in TWD 102 or the Arvo medicine choice in TWD 204. It's not the best but it's not the worst. I'd give it a rating of above average: C+/B- (depending on the grading system you came from).
Duncan is secretly a poosey. According to him posting cat vines is violent too. A true protector of peace.
Duncan being the traitor makes a lot more sense either way. I honestly don't know why they even made it a choice depending thing
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Gared is a dead man anyway... If he doesn't die out there he'll just get executed by the Night's Watch. Since the Wall is the only passage way to return South... Let's suppose he does manage to storm through Castle Black (which is impossible tbh) and return to Ironrath, he'll just get hunted down by the Watch and the Forresters can't shield him from the law
YOU DON'T TELL ME THIS SHIT!! I'll rewind and Duncan will live
Duncan alive or Duncan's head on a spike atop Ironrath's Main Gate, my point still stands. Gared is a walking corpse
But surely the choice of Ethan, a mere child who then died a few days later, should be attributed to the entire House, and they should be betrayed from within for the sake of....protecting it.
Royland being the traitor is a thousand times better in my book than Duncan with his Grove Knowledge. But Royland's a better soldier for the war ahead. Damn it.
Am I the only one that's okay with how they handled it? I mean, people in Westeros are just all-around terrible people and it was hinted at in the first episode that both Duncan and Royland wanted that position of power (Sentinel). I really don't think it was bad writing, I think it accurately depicted how selfish and ungrateful people are in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
This alone ruined the entire episode for me. I was so excited when the screen was slowly panning up to him, and then it was fucking Duncan. The ending itself wasn't enough to save this episode after the worst plot twist I think i've ever seen in a Telltale Game.
I don't think Duncan being the traitor makes sense anyway, but it sure made a lot more sense than Royland, the most loyal fucker I've ever seen.
Maybe Telltale should stop including stupid decisions that don't matter, and start thinking long-term.
This episodic gaming ideal of theirs should be stopped for their next project so they work on the game as a whole. So Episode 1 leads to Episode 5/6 in a cohesive manner that makes sense all around.
Not stuff like Finn, and the Sentinel, not stuff like Nick from TWD Season 2, not some of the more pointless decisions with Bigby Wolf.
Heck. Part of me loves the idea of a 6-part series like this in a different way. Build the story up in 4 episodes like Telltale normally does with it's 5 part series. Then have the final two episodes be divergent (Aka you play a different Episode because of your choice.) based on a choice! Either as a full game, or simultaneous release! An entirely different ending! A way to recognize player choice in such an astounding manner. Add replay value. Get the recognition as a story-telling company.
that would suck because i killed them
Agreed. The only thing of note of this episode is the ending, and that doesn't save the episode completely.
Of course, Gared and Mira's parts being totally underwhelming didn't help.
I was afraid I had hyped myself up too much and that's why I didn't enjoy the episode, but glad to see other people have this opinion too.