Asher's army
Anyone else not impressed by Asher's "army"? Seriously, it's like 6 people and no one seems to make a deal out of it. How he wants to defeat Whitehills with that lot goes over my head.
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Anyone else not impressed by Asher's "army"? Seriously, it's like 6 people and no one seems to make a deal out of it. How he wants to defeat Whitehills with that lot goes over my head.
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Yeah, looks like the 'army' was just an excuse to get Asher to go over to Westeros. Seems as if Mira will really be supplying the manpower we need.
Especially considering that if Rodrik dies, bearing in mind what happened to Arthur, I doubt we'll receive any help from the Glenmores..
It was an impressive army of six men, lol.
I was actually snirking when he was like "I BROUGHT U AN ARMY RODRIK" and there's like four dudes and two women behind him.
six? that's bad luck. You need seven, as for the Seven Gods.
there's also seven hells.... ;-;
Well we have more then 6. There were like 20 on the ship. They all ran off and got stuck on the other side. Plus 20 pit fighters = 200 sellswords. Were fine. I'm pissed that the beast didn't make it though
I think they are fair replacement of the eight archers from last episode.
He pretty much wasted a bunch of time. He could've gotten the same result by just asking random people to join his fight.
Also they're all pretty much just savages with no discipline and most likely no Westerosi military knowledge. The Whitehills would just need to plan a pincer cavalry attack or ambush them in the woods to wipe them out without breaking a sweat..
They have plenty of discipline, just not in marching formations. They're also master champs at fighting dirty as hell, which is exactly what is going to be needed to beat the Whitehills. Even if Mira moves heaven and earth, the Whitehills can probably outspend the Forresters 10:1 in sellsword recruitment. Any traditional mercs they bought would probably get bribed off by Ludd before the first battle. In contrast, the pit fighters would take one look at blubbery Ludd and kill him, if he tried to bribe them.
The Forresters basically need to engage in guerrilla combat until the stack enough cash to solidify their position. Slap some armor and them, and I bet the pit fighters will be great at it.
Yeah, definitely Mira. I'm pretty sure at least half of Asher's "army" gets slaughtered by the Whitehills at the end of episode 5 anyway.
If you have the courage to read all my post, i tip you my hat sir !
Discipline ? Are we talking about the same people ? Those guys that were screaming at the pits sure as hell don't have it. Of course the black woman, Nightsong and the Fat guy most probably do to a certain extent but the big part of the "army" doesn't. Also guerrilla tactic requires patience and more often than not formations. You said yourself that they don't know about it and i'm pretty sure they lack patience as well. Unless you implied them harassing the Whitehill camps continuously, but even then it's pretty helpful to move in distinct formation and plan. Besides they don't teach nor train mounted combat in Essos which is the core of Westerosi Warfare. The Tyrells favour militia infantry coupled with heavy knights, the Westerlands favour a 1:3 cavalry-infantry ratio, Dorne uses light cavalry harassment, etc. Most importantly Robb Stark uses a mix of heavy and light cavalry which is very common in the North. Especially for houses like Umber, Karstark and Glover, which is the house the Forresters are sworn to by the way. Most people in Essos also never use plate armour except the biggest and most expensive sellsword companes like the GC (which was founded by Bittersteel a Targaryen bastard from Westeros). I would like to see those guys try to fight in an heavy armour. Forresters cannot afford plate at the moment anyway, they'll probably give them some cheap ring mail or leather. Fighting dirty doesn't mean shit in this kind of fight. Just like most Westerosi warriors would suck in the fighting pits, the pit fighters would suck in an all-strategic grand scale battle. Shall I remind you how Stannis 2000ish riders obliterated almost 100 000 wildlings who are often master at winter guerrilla ? Of course they're not as competent in fighting as those guys from the episode but they aren't less disciplined and a much larger host.
Anyway what am i saying, nobody will bother with that. Mira will just pull a plot and device and we'll be set to go.
Wow 6 to 8 people, Whitehills must wet their pants
You got that !
Lol seriously they're bloodthirsty former slave who fought in battle royals all their life, most of them have no education or war experience, they are savages for the most part. They're like Ironborn without the sailing and the war experience so not much really...
Looks like a good half of them died in the ambush too. So we got like maybe forty Forrester soldiers in total against Whitehill's hundreds?
If you are talking about the sellswords Andros was getting for Ludd, Rodrik says Mira took care of that. I wonder if Cersei already killed Andros, or if simply exposing him and ruining his business partnership with Lyman was enough to disrupt the plan.
So we have that going for us, which is nice.
They're experienced killers who do it for fun. One of them is the same as TEN sellswords. They are disciplined. How else do you not lash out and kill your slave master for years? If you save Asher there shouldn't be any problems with them
It's 10 and most were killed already. Hate to say it but Asher's time in Mereen was pointless in the end
In a pit sure, but in open field with earthworks, warfare engineering and in the snow no less ?! It's extremely different.
Anyway i'm judging by real life standards and ASOIAF standards while this is a video game. These parameters won't even matter in the game
"Seriously, its like 6 people..."
LOL I laughed at that for some reason. Lol
But yeah your right his army sucks
If the armies were bigger I'd agree, but this is a really small scale war so these undisciplined fighters may likely make a HUGE difference.
If the average Whitehill soldier is at the level of those small fries I rekt at Gared's farm, then yeah they'll be just fine
"Hur they're pig farmers a soldier's worth a hundred of their type!"
Three of them git rekt by one pig farmer.
I imagine that there are more of them than there appears to be. Its just the standard limitations making Telltale have to cut corners, and use some fancy camera work to try and make it look like there's more than there actually are on screen.
I mean, it's pretty hard to show the sheer scope of it with the tech they're working with. Why do you think they used so many narrow alleyways and convenient camera cuts when the 'army' was on screen?
I mean, it's easy for them to do a herd in TWD, for example, since they can easily reuse zombie models without it looking overly awkward, and since zombies don't do much other than shamble around aimlessly, they can just keep having them walk on and off screen, giving the illusion of there being tons of them. When it's actual living characters like it is here, it becomes a lot harder to pull off those same kind of tricks.
That being said, they still could have done a better job with it overall. When you look back at the Red Wedding massacre going on in episode 1, it feels pretty lively. Lots of NPCs running around, lots of fighting going on in the background, and due to the set-up and panic of the scene, they could get away with using the good old "have one NPC run off screen, spawn same NPC somewhere else" trick/illusion, where one character can essentially become two or more by simply having them exit stage left, then enter stage right. They captured the scope of it pretty well in that scene. In this? Not so much.
Hell, they don't even have to use models to achieve the effect. They could have simply made a shit ton of silhouettes of random fighters near the boat, then have them bob around in the background (like they have done in TWD when it comes to huge sweeping shots of zombies) to make it look like there's an upwards of 50-100 of them.
I found it funny that no one in-game commented on the army size. They're all just like "Yeah, we got an army, let's go kill some Whitehills!" And I was sitting behind my computer screen, thinking: "Is NOBODY going to say that they're army consists of 6 people?!". Asher and crew think it's all G, though, apparently.
There's only like 5 of them lol and they already killed the best one The Beast. When I think of an army I think at least 50 people or more.
Lol even in the final scene a wounded outnumbered main character managed to take out like 5 of them...
Considering I have Royand, Beskha, Bloodsong, Amaya, an handful of pit fighter fodders and some scraps from Ironrath and Mira still active in King's Landing this is quite realistically still achievable ! Won't be easy though
Best is Bloodsong (if you spared his life), Beast probably second.
And Asher had beaten Bloodsong, so he's the best. :-D
We all know you need at least Twenty Good Men.
I rate neg as 4/10
Anyways, you don't get to be as good of pit fighters as they are without discipline. As they said when they were busting Asher's balls, they're artists of murder. They lack self-control and moral qualms of any kind, but no, they do not lack discipline. And you're assuming that the Whitehills get to dictate the battleground, which is equally important. Whitehills need Ironwood to keep the Boltons from turning on then, and that's the best place to engage them. They can't afford to march properly on Ironwrath if the Forresters are screwing up their Ironwood supply (as they are the *only *ones how know how to burn it). Calvary efficiency drops in heavily wooded areas, are especially open to traps, and the Whitehills probably can't afford to house and feed enough horses to run a very large cavalry in the first place. There's no freaking room for them to have an exceptionally strategic battle, and they both know they need a 1 hit KO asap before daddy Bolton comes to flay them all for not delivering Ironwood on time. Ludd is wasting time, money, and resources trying to stamp out the Forresters, on top of the Whitehills having shoddy Ironwood craftsmanship in the first place, he's on the wire as it is.
The Forresters were still delivering Ironwood shields & weapons to the Night's Watch, they should easily be able to kit out the pit fighters. Stannis beat the wildlings because he dictated the time, the place, and had the element of surprise. The Forresters can do the same. There's centuries of examples of well-trained soldiers getting put down by poorly trained guerrilla fighters, heck, America shouldn't exist based on your argument. Most of our army didn't have even have shoes, for goodness sakes :P
Actually, you can use a little ASoIaF to solidify this theory.
During the siege of Mereen, Strong Belwas, a Pit Fighter resembling the fatso of Asher´s Army, took head-on Mereen´s champion and defeated him with ease, after displaying a "show" to the mereenese and becoming a big deterrant to the city´s morale. From this, I can make these assumptions/theories:
Assuming the champion of Mereen was no ordinary soldier (you don´t get to "champion" the city just because you are from a noble house), we can assume an experienced pit fighter can easily take on a mounted soldier. If we assume infantry loses the movility and speed of the horse (plus, less armor means more speed, and pit fighter´s weapons aim for irregular combat the westerosi are not accustomed to) we can assume one of Asher´s pit fighters can be worth at least 5 whitehill soldiers.
The Whitehills don´t have a big army, hence, the necessity of hiring mercenaries to bolster numbers. Mira frustrating Ludd´s hiring is a major blow to the Whitehill forces. Why? Being a small House in service of another bannerman, we can assume they have very few elites (mainly captains), a small portion of soldiers (which at best, are common regulars) and mostly, trained militiamen. The last ones being conscripts or poorly experienced, are prone to panic when facing certain stressful situations or enemies (take for example the battle against Burgred´s mercians in Vikings) and bloodthirsty enemies which is something the Pit Fighters specialize in---showing off their art. Don´t forget, that once panic takes hold within an army, it spreads and determines the outcome of the battle.
Territory plays in advantage of the Pit Fighters. Sure, the Whitehill army may still have the numbers, but Like RykaStar mentioned, this doesn´t mean they will choose the field of battle. Oftenly those in disadvantage choose the place to do battle in order to compensate, which is most likely what the Forresters will do. We can consider battles taking place nearby forests (or, placing ambushes along the forest roads also plays well. Consider Lake Trasimen for an example, or even the guerrilla warfare the Maccabees waged against the Seleucid Empire) or also supply raids, cutting off supply routes which can have the Pit Fighters doing "kill and run". Plus, these sort of startegies in or nearby forests favor 1 to 1 combat, which is Pit Fighters specialty.
From what we saw during the game, the Whitehill soldiers don´t really seem to be battle hardened warriors. They are overconfident, poorly skilled and depend too much on numbers. (Like it was mentioned, Gared PWNing two Whitehill soldiers being merely a squire in hand to hand combat shows they aren´t much of a challenge for an experienced killer)
Yeah Rodrick even says that the Whitehill's are just as vulnerable as us and that was before they recruited a bunch of bloodthirsty warriors I think the Whitehill's are in for some severe butt hurt although I think there will be huge casualties on both sides probably some slow motion choices in the heat of battle over Amaya, Beskha, Bloodsong and Royland.
Well, some of the pit fighters made it out alive.
And before everyone starts saying that they are weak, well they aren't. The Whitehills had crossbows during the ambush. The Forresters and the pit fighters didn't. They didn't even have shields (well, that is kinda lame).
And also, remember what Beskha said. 'One pit fighter is worth any 10 sellswords.' Wait till you see them in action,
I think one main Character can take down at least 6 men each so Royland Beskha, Amaya Bloodsong(depending) and Asher (depending) would mean 30 dead Whitehill's pretty good stats .
There's like 2 fighters and that's it lol. We mind as well not play episode 6 cause we'll die. Jk.
People need to realize that Telltale can't produce a shit ton of dudes, on screen, in such a tiny area. They were doing a close quarter combat arena. Where it's perfect to set up an ambush on the Forrester's and an excuse to give the choice between Rodrik/Asher. Not sure what they're going to do in ep. 6, but damn give em break. You'll get your murder bone on.
Edit: episode 6 not 5! Curses!
This new one will actually be episode 6 mate :P Not criticizing just saying
I noticed that too, it's like an "army" of 6 to 8 people... Also I Killed bloodsong that was apparently one of their best fighters and that big huge guy plus two more guys died... SO... Not that big of an army right now, in my oppinion :P In my game there is like a house with a new lord taht doesn't want to be a lord (I saved Asher because I think Rodrick would be more open to dying for his house, since he has bene there all along then Asher. Also Rodrick is ssmart enough to know that any army would question him for being handicaped so he realized Asher neede to step up and be the new lord so the house could continue ruling), an army of like 40 archers, like 5 ex-slave fighters , a lady with a dead fiance, and oh they still have our younger brother. So I know I (the characters in the game) will find a way out but right now it seems REALLY BAD!!
Have you been living in a cave?
Yeah, why?
By medieval standards, that's a small garrison. Most armies for small Houses such as the Forresters/Whitehills would be 20-40 men, while King's Landing/Winterfell (before banner calling) would be 200-250 men.