I would rather see comments criticizing the game for what it really is than see comments from people who eat anything that is thrown at them… more.
"The episode is poorly written because of X Y and Z" is better than "omg it made me cry 10/10" , "the episode is 10/10 because i liked it"
They don't wound me. I was simply addressing the fact that all of his negative and challenging comments are getting annoying, and it seems I'm not the only one. I wasn't trying to start a dispute.
Everything I said was true.
I still don't think not liking one episode means "complaining about everything" but this is gone on for too long. We disagree, it's over
I really wish we had the Ortengryn or even Elissa = Traitor thing instead now. It might've been obvious, but something obvious is a hundred times better than something bad. Being blackmailed over the safety of her own children, while overdone (see Catelyn Stark), is at least reasonable from a mothers perspective. This honestly just rises to the point where only mental illness can be the explanation.
That being said, aside from plot holes, good episode!
Rodrik has had a lot of screen-time for the last episode or two, yeah, but I'd say Gared probably has had the most. Episode 1 he had the most time, and had quite a nice portion in 2 & 3. Confused with the lack of screen time for Gared in 4 & 5, though... I guess by this point they've probably had around the same time on-screen.
Rodrik has had a lot of screen-time for the last episode or two, yeah, but I'd say Gared probably has had the most. Episode 1 he had the mos… moret time, and had quite a nice portion in 2 & 3. Confused with the lack of screen time for Gared in 4 & 5, though... I guess by this point they've probably had around the same time on-screen.
In my playthrough, it made sense for Duncan to be the traitor other than just making Royland the sentinel. For the most part, my Roderick agreed with Royland more than Duncan on how to handle things, and in other cases, I ended up saying fuck you to diplomacy which was what Duncan preferred. So when it was revealed that Duncan betrayed me, it made sense.
I'm on the same boat with you. In my playthrough, Duncan not being sentinel was not the only reason for his betrayl. I pretty much ignored his cries for diplomacy, and some of my actions ( beating the hell out of Gryff, refusing to kiss Ludd's ring) pissed him off. In that regard, it wasn't bad writing. Tbh, I think making Lady Forester or the Maester the traitor would have been poor writing.
Am I the only one that's okay with how they handled it? I mean, people in Westeros are just all-around terrible people and it was hinted at … morein the first episode that both Duncan and Royland wanted that position of power (Sentinel). I really don't think it was bad writing, I think it accurately depicted how selfish and ungrateful people are in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
I think the scene can either be more solid or not, depending on your choices.
It's a lot like with the stranger in TWD. Certain choices make the scene with him make a lot more sense, and make some of his views and points seem justified, if not valid. On the other hand, different choices makes that whole scene feel a bit cheap, and his reasoning and justifications are a lot more flimsy.
The traitor largely suffers from the same problem. Duncan and Royland can both have some fairly solid points depending on what choices you've made, ones that give some credence to the idea of them turning cloaks. However, other paths just make it look quite sloppy, and basically whittle their primary reason for betraying you down to "I didn't get that sweet-ass arm cuff! Go fuck yourself!"
Am I the only one that's okay with how they handled it? I mean, people in Westeros are just all-around terrible people and it was hinted at … morein the first episode that both Duncan and Royland wanted that position of power (Sentinel). I really don't think it was bad writing, I think it accurately depicted how selfish and ungrateful people are in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
Very good points. Nice comparison to the Stranger, I remember doing a playthrough dedicated to trying to make him hate me the least and the result was a kind of awkward scene where he was just nitpicking everything I did.
I think the scene can either be more solid or not, depending on your choices.
It's a lot like with the stranger in TWD. Certain choices m… moreake the scene with him make a lot more sense, and make some of his views and points seem justified, if not valid. On the other hand, different choices makes that whole scene feel a bit cheap, and his reasoning and justifications are a lot more flimsy.
The traitor largely suffers from the same problem. Duncan and Royland can both have some fairly solid points depending on what choices you've made, ones that give some credence to the idea of them turning cloaks. However, other paths just make it look quite sloppy, and basically whittle their primary reason for betraying you down to "I didn't get that sweet-ass arm cuff! Go fuck yourself!"
If Ducan was really loyal he wouldn't have talked to our enemy behind our backs. He should have known better. I think that made him look worse than Royland.
Duncan, who talked his nephew, his last remaining family member, into deserting the Night's Watch and traveling alone into the frozen, deadly North, to find some ancient power to save House Forrester from ruin? Duncan, whose brother and niece were butchered by Whitehill men in cold blood? Yeah, he seems like traitor material. Frankly, NEITHER of the Sentinel candidates make sense as traitors.
Actually, yes. Unlike Royland, Duncan has always struck me as the type to 'protect the house no matter the cost' which in this case he tried to do as he explained when found out. Royland is loyal too, but he's too proud to ever break bread with the Whitehills, especially behind his lord's back. Duncan didn't give up the north grove because he's trying to play multiple angles to ensure House Forrester remains. He's a traitor, but he had loyal intentions. It fits his personality much more than Royland, which is why I found that one at least believable.
Duncan, who talked his nephew, his last remaining family member, into deserting the Night's Watch and traveling alone into the frozen, deadl… morey North, to find some ancient power to save House Forrester from ruin? Duncan, whose brother and niece were butchered by Whitehill men in cold blood? Yeah, he seems like traitor material. Frankly, NEITHER of the Sentinel candidates make sense as traitors.
See, I could MAYBE bring myself to terms with the betrayal if it was actually relayed to us like that, but it's not. Duncan and Royland don't fess up to their actions and say "I thought it was the only way to save the House, I had to do it." They just spit at your feet and go "This is your fault for not giving me the shiny Sentinel Glove when you were your own teenage brother! You're just too weak!" regardless of how you've treated their advice or how the story has progressed.
Actually, yes. Unlike Royland, Duncan has always struck me as the type to 'protect the house no matter the cost' which in this case he tried… more to do as he explained when found out. Royland is loyal too, but he's too proud to ever break bread with the Whitehills, especially behind his lord's back. Duncan didn't give up the north grove because he's trying to play multiple angles to ensure House Forrester remains. He's a traitor, but he had loyal intentions. It fits his personality much more than Royland, which is why I found that one at least believable.
What would have been pretty interesting if your ending turned out to be the meister because both Duncan and Royland wouldn't have a reason to turn on you. Make it a nice third choice.
In my second save, I picked Royland, took all of Duncan's advices, then he comes and calls me a fool. Fool, because I took his advices? It w… moreas funny though. But I kinda liked it, dispite the weird excuse for his actions (vice versa with Royland). I aslo noticed the difference how our mother reacts to them being as a traitor. [(sad if Duncan, not surprised if Royland) (probably of Gregor's and Dun's friendship...)]
Watch, now in Episode 4 we'll go back into the Dome to find that Ramsay flayed Vaughn and the Stranger is either Fiona or Jack depending on who you trusted in Episode 2.
I honestly felt like Telltale never thought of who the traitor actually was until this very episode. I mean the traitor gets startled when you approach him, which they had never done before. The reasoning's for why they were betraying was also stupid. Very very bad decision by Telltale in this aspect, not to mention the fact that both sentinels are also determinants now and we know what usually happens with them -_-. Royland was the traitor in my playthrough but I think Duncan being the traitor would be even more stupid as he sent Gared to find the north grove.
I still don't get how giving information to the enemy constituted as 'saving the House'.
Especially if you consider that the traitor was probably the guy who let the Whitehall soldiers in during the end of Episode 1. That got Ethan killed. It made no sense of either Royland or Duncan to do that.
In my playthrough, it made sense for Duncan to be the traitor other than just making Royland the sentinel. For the most part, my Roderick ag… morereed with Royland more than Duncan on how to handle things, and in other cases, I ended up saying fuck you to diplomacy which was what Duncan preferred. So when it was revealed that Duncan betrayed me, it made sense.
Gared is a dead man anyway... If he doesn't die out there he'll just get executed by the Night's Watch. Since the Wall is the only passage w… moreay to return South... Let's suppose he does manage to storm through Castle Black (which is impossible tbh) and return to Ironrath, he'll just get hunted down by the Watch and the Forresters can't shield him from the law
Duncan claims that Rodrik is a violent tyrant that doesn't care about anything except violence but betrays the Forresters for Ludd Whitehill, the guy who is exactly what Duncan describes and wants nothing but war on the Forresters for no reason other than being a fat asshole.
How could they favor BORDERLANDS over GAME OF THRONES? The later is ten times as popular - they would have reaped more rewards if they put their A team in TTG's GoT.
How could they favor BORDERLANDS over GAME OF THRONES? The later is ten times as popular - they would have reaped more rewards if they put their A team in TTG's GoT.
Also if Duncan asks Gared to find the north grove to save the house,why the hell would he betray the Forresters?Royland,Ortergryn and even lady Forrester had motives but Duncan becoming traitor is really stupid.
I was hoping they'd make it believable and not do some ridiculous twist.... but they did some ridiculous twist. Duncan was stupid enough but seriously royland does it if not sentinal?
What reason does he have? I mean Duncan "peace, peace" makes a little sense (very little but still) What actual reason does royland have?
And what exactly is the point of the maestor? Just to be a red herring?
No, the writing is quite bad. O.k, you wouldn't have cared if the maester turned out to be the traitor. That's fair enough. But making it determinate between Duncan and Royland is just very poor writing. It's nonsensical, impossible to predict, and just downright annoying.
I feel like this was the only logical choice (for what we had in the game so far)
Well, yeah, and that's the problem. The writer's didn't have the forethought to work out how to handle the traitor reveal early in the writing stages; who it would be and why. So the only choice they had left themselves was to just tack on an explanation which made zero sense and was out of character for both of them. They basically just listed the negative points of decisions you've made. It made it shocking, but in a bad way. In a 'I literally do not believe this game' way, as opposed to a 'How did I not realise the traitor was him?' way.
So, how could they have fixed this? The answer is in your comment.
The Maester is just there.
You're right. He's pretty one-dimensional. If they had built more into the maester's character; made him more interesting and likeable, given him more layers and back story, then with the right obscuring and then revelation of motives, he would have made an excellent traitor. As it is, they basically just made the traitor whoever Ethan didn't choose, then hoped you'd fill in believable motives by yourself.
I guess I'm the only one who didn't want the traitor to be the Maester. I don't feel any kind of connection to the Maester. If he was the … moretraitor, I'd just kill him and move on. He's not very close to the main cast. There is no real added dynamic to the game with his presence. He tries to give wisdom in the earlier part of the season, but the stuff he said seemed like common knowledge to me. He was more of a Captain Obvious than a person in the shadows with great insight. The Maester is just there. He could have died earlier and I would not have batted an eye. He is just that: a maester.
While I understand that people are upset about the rapid character change in the person who is the traitor, I feel like this was the only logical choice (for what we had in the game so far). Every other possibility to me would have either brought more confusion via character plot holes or would have been someone whose life I could care less about… [view original content]
It was completely ridiculous. Royland getting mad about a kids decision, even when i (as Rodrick, not Ethan) sided with him on some things after. Then he makes a whole speech about how he wont see me ruin the Forrester household so he betrays us tooooo umm help the Forretsers? What a pile of poop. It felt like if the traitor was going to be determinant, a points system should have been used depending on the three or so decisions you make that will please either of them. At least then it's not dependent on a coin toss.
I thought Daenerys was completely out of character as well but i think the whole episode (season?) has just suffered from some very bad writing. It's a shame as it had the potential to be so good. I think they relied on the Asher or Rodrick shock factor (which had been predicted by many already) to save them but it doesn't cover up the flaws for the people who are actually paying attention. Though i'm still looking forward to see where the overall story goes.
In honestly makes no sense.
Duncan claims that Rodrik is a violent tyrant that doesn't care about anything except violence but betrays th… moree Forresters for Ludd Whitehill, the guy who is exactly what Duncan describes and wants nothing but war on the Forresters for no reason other than being a fat asshole.
Comments
You know, I hate to say it (and with all due respect to the GoT team), but it really feels like Telltale put their A-team on TFTB
That's rich, coming from you
Great criticism
professional criticism
That's not being a dick...
Also, I'm not the one that resorted to name calling. Everything I said was true.
I said don't be a dick, not you objectively are one. True or not just ignore him if his different opinions wound you.
I still don't think not liking one episode means "complaining about everything" but this is gone on for too long. We disagree, it's over
They don't wound me. I was simply addressing the fact that all of his negative and challenging comments are getting annoying, and it seems I'm not the only one. I wasn't trying to start a dispute.
Yeah, I didn't come here looking to start a dispute. Agreed, it's over.
We'll just have to see if TFTB keeps the ball rolling.
I really wish we had the Ortengryn or even Elissa = Traitor thing instead now. It might've been obvious, but something obvious is a hundred times better than something bad. Being blackmailed over the safety of her own children, while overdone (see Catelyn Stark), is at least reasonable from a mothers perspective. This honestly just rises to the point where only mental illness can be the explanation.
That being said, aside from plot holes, good episode!
Rodrik has had a lot of screen-time for the last episode or two, yeah, but I'd say Gared probably has had the most. Episode 1 he had the most time, and had quite a nice portion in 2 & 3. Confused with the lack of screen time for Gared in 4 & 5, though... I guess by this point they've probably had around the same time on-screen.
I wish some of that time went to Mira...
Me too. Hopefully Episode 6? By this point, there's less characters.. so more time for the remaining characters.
I don't think we've agreed about anything before, but this definitely killed the episode for me.
Don't most people :P
In my playthrough, it made sense for Duncan to be the traitor other than just making Royland the sentinel. For the most part, my Roderick agreed with Royland more than Duncan on how to handle things, and in other cases, I ended up saying fuck you to diplomacy which was what Duncan preferred. So when it was revealed that Duncan betrayed me, it made sense.
I'm on the same boat with you. In my playthrough, Duncan not being sentinel was not the only reason for his betrayl. I pretty much ignored his cries for diplomacy, and some of my actions ( beating the hell out of Gryff, refusing to kiss Ludd's ring) pissed him off. In that regard, it wasn't bad writing. Tbh, I think making Lady Forester or the Maester the traitor would have been poor writing.
I am just glad I have a real man like Royland. Duncan reeked of b*tch the second I met him and when he betrayed me, I happily killed him.
I think the scene can either be more solid or not, depending on your choices.
It's a lot like with the stranger in TWD. Certain choices make the scene with him make a lot more sense, and make some of his views and points seem justified, if not valid. On the other hand, different choices makes that whole scene feel a bit cheap, and his reasoning and justifications are a lot more flimsy.
The traitor largely suffers from the same problem. Duncan and Royland can both have some fairly solid points depending on what choices you've made, ones that give some credence to the idea of them turning cloaks. However, other paths just make it look quite sloppy, and basically whittle their primary reason for betraying you down to "I didn't get that sweet-ass arm cuff! Go fuck yourself!"
Very good points. Nice comparison to the Stranger, I remember doing a playthrough dedicated to trying to make him hate me the least and the result was a kind of awkward scene where he was just nitpicking everything I did.
If Ducan was really loyal he wouldn't have talked to our enemy behind our backs. He should have known better. I think that made him look worse than Royland.
Duncan, who talked his nephew, his last remaining family member, into deserting the Night's Watch and traveling alone into the frozen, deadly North, to find some ancient power to save House Forrester from ruin? Duncan, whose brother and niece were butchered by Whitehill men in cold blood? Yeah, he seems like traitor material. Frankly, NEITHER of the Sentinel candidates make sense as traitors.
So sad still!! Had to do 2 play through with both Asher and Rodrik, because I couldn't say goodbye to both of them yet
Actually, yes. Unlike Royland, Duncan has always struck me as the type to 'protect the house no matter the cost' which in this case he tried to do as he explained when found out. Royland is loyal too, but he's too proud to ever break bread with the Whitehills, especially behind his lord's back. Duncan didn't give up the north grove because he's trying to play multiple angles to ensure House Forrester remains. He's a traitor, but he had loyal intentions. It fits his personality much more than Royland, which is why I found that one at least believable.
See, I could MAYBE bring myself to terms with the betrayal if it was actually relayed to us like that, but it's not. Duncan and Royland don't fess up to their actions and say "I thought it was the only way to save the House, I had to do it." They just spit at your feet and go "This is your fault for not giving me the shiny Sentinel Glove when you were your own teenage brother! You're just too weak!" regardless of how you've treated their advice or how the story has progressed.
What would have been pretty interesting if your ending turned out to be the meister because both Duncan and Royland wouldn't have a reason to turn on you. Make it a nice third choice.
Watch, now in Episode 4 we'll go back into the Dome to find that Ramsay flayed Vaughn and the Stranger is either Fiona or Jack depending on who you trusted in Episode 2.
My traitor was Royland, so I want to ask if Duncan still calls Rodrik a cripple. The whole thing is so stupid it hurts my brain.
I honestly felt like Telltale never thought of who the traitor actually was until this very episode. I mean the traitor gets startled when you approach him, which they had never done before. The reasoning's for why they were betraying was also stupid. Very very bad decision by Telltale in this aspect, not to mention the fact that both sentinels are also determinants now and we know what usually happens with them -_-. Royland was the traitor in my playthrough but I think Duncan being the traitor would be even more stupid as he sent Gared to find the north grove.
I still don't get how giving information to the enemy constituted as 'saving the House'.
Especially if you consider that the traitor was probably the guy who let the Whitehall soldiers in during the end of Episode 1. That got Ethan killed. It made no sense of either Royland or Duncan to do that.
He'll find the North Grove and will stay there forever.
In honestly makes no sense.
Duncan claims that Rodrik is a violent tyrant that doesn't care about anything except violence but betrays the Forresters for Ludd Whitehill, the guy who is exactly what Duncan describes and wants nothing but war on the Forresters for no reason other than being a fat asshole.
How could they favor BORDERLANDS over GAME OF THRONES? The later is ten times as popular - they would have reaped more rewards if they put their A team in TTG's GoT.
Eh, I think either way they'll make ALL of the money.
I mean, they could just take a pile of crap and say it's Game of Thrones and people would still buy it. Which is exactly what they did for Episode 5
The Whitehills killed Duncans brother and 8 year old F*CKING NIECE ad he sides with them??????
I was hoping they'd make it believable and not do some ridiculous twist.... but they did some ridiculous twist. Duncan was stupid enough but seriously royland does it if not sentinal?
What reason does he have? I mean Duncan "peace, peace" makes a little sense (very little but still) What actual reason does royland have?
And what exactly is the point of the maestor? Just to be a red herring?
No, the writing is quite bad. O.k, you wouldn't have cared if the maester turned out to be the traitor. That's fair enough. But making it determinate between Duncan and Royland is just very poor writing. It's nonsensical, impossible to predict, and just downright annoying.
Well, yeah, and that's the problem. The writer's didn't have the forethought to work out how to handle the traitor reveal early in the writing stages; who it would be and why. So the only choice they had left themselves was to just tack on an explanation which made zero sense and was out of character for both of them. They basically just listed the negative points of decisions you've made. It made it shocking, but in a bad way. In a 'I literally do not believe this game' way, as opposed to a 'How did I not realise the traitor was him?' way.
So, how could they have fixed this? The answer is in your comment.
You're right. He's pretty one-dimensional. If they had built more into the maester's character; made him more interesting and likeable, given him more layers and back story, then with the right obscuring and then revelation of motives, he would have made an excellent traitor. As it is, they basically just made the traitor whoever Ethan didn't choose, then hoped you'd fill in believable motives by yourself.
It was completely ridiculous. Royland getting mad about a kids decision, even when i (as Rodrick, not Ethan) sided with him on some things after. Then he makes a whole speech about how he wont see me ruin the Forrester household so he betrays us tooooo umm help the Forretsers? What a pile of poop. It felt like if the traitor was going to be determinant, a points system should have been used depending on the three or so decisions you make that will please either of them. At least then it's not dependent on a coin toss.
I thought Daenerys was completely out of character as well but i think the whole episode (season?) has just suffered from some very bad writing. It's a shame as it had the potential to be so good. I think they relied on the Asher or Rodrick shock factor (which had been predicted by many already) to save them but it doesn't cover up the flaws for the people who are actually paying attention. Though i'm still looking forward to see where the overall story goes.
And the guy who killed his 8 year old niece and brother for no reason..