that's exactly what i said. then it's not telltale, it's u who don't make sense, by choosing Royland as sentinel, and being peaceful like Duncan says u should be.
You clearly don't get it... I mean when you choose royland as sentinel,then you are peaceful,like I said (you do everything duncan likes) but he still calls you a madman who uses only violence which is bullsh*t... got it now?
Well change the word 'badge' to word 'title' if you prefer because that literally is the only thing that affects on who the traitor is.
And I really wouldn't compare telling the truth about Sera to what Duncan/Royland did.
Firstly, Ethan chooses the sentinel, but Rodrik is the one who receives their criticisms. If Ethan was peaceful, why must Rodrik, a different person, have to follow in his footsteps? Duncan/Royland fault Rodrik for Ethan's morals.
Secondly, even if it were one character or the player played them both the same way, it makes perfect sense to choose a sentinel who has the opposite views as you. If the lord is extremely peaceful, what good is choosing the peaceful man as his second? That's simply making him your yes-man. If all the sentinel is going to say is "Good idea, boss!" then his input is hardly valuable. A peaceful player might choose Royland instead. That way the house would have more balanced leadership, with debate allowing them to weigh out the pros and cons of both possible actions.
that's exactly what i said. then it's not telltale, it's u who don't make sense, by choosing Royland as sentinel, and being peaceful like Duncan says u should be.
It shouldn't be that simple but it is Name Duncan sentinel > Royland is traitor. Name Royland sentinel > Duncan is traitor. That's how simple it is. Of course, with luck, your playthrough might make it look like there are other reasons for it but as I said the problem is you can play a playthrough where you do everything as the traitor says and then he betrays you because he doesn't like your decisions.
Now if the reason for betraying is something totally outside of any choices (including the sentinel choice) then why doesn't he do it even if he is sentinel?
Cold fact: Only the choice with Ethan about who is the sentinel affects on who will be the traitor. Nothing else, period.
Now perhaps they could try to do some explaining in the last episode (don't see how) OR even make it so that both of them are traitors, but for now the fact is that the badge/title and not having it is the real reason for the betrayal.
Oh, Duncan said the reason is because Rodrik is violent? Then WHY doesn't he betray him for that reason as a sentinel? Just asking, I mean Rodrik isn't even the one who blessed him with the badge
No, this does not make sense at all still. Even if you play like you did, the character traits from both Duncan/Royland and their actions don't add up. One of the better examples I can give is episode 4 when you go to Highpoint and you can choose to bring one or the other. When things heat up, regardless if they're your sentinel or not, both people draw their swords and make it clear they're ready to kill the Whitehills. Would a traitor really be ready to fight and die for the person they're betraying? No.
firstly, cause it's the same exact person playing.
secondly, if that makes sense, then u choosing someone who disagrees with you to be sentinel and he betraying you is only natural.
The player in that scenario makes perfect sense.
Firstly, Ethan chooses the sentinel, but Rodrik is the one who receives their criticisms… more. If Ethan was peaceful, why must Rodrik, a different person, have to follow in his footsteps? Duncan/Royland fault Rodrik for Ethan's morals.
Secondly, even if it were one character or the player played them both the same way, it makes perfect sense to choose a sentinel who has the opposite views as you. If the lord is extremely peaceful, what good is choosing the peaceful man as his second? That's simply making him your yes-man. If all the sentinel is going to say is "Good idea, boss!" then his input is hardly valuable. A peaceful player might choose Royland instead. That way the house would have more balanced leadership, with debate allowing them to weigh out the pros and cons of both possible actions.
The Traitor made literally no sense and was done terribly. They threw away lots of character building for cheap shock value.
Duncan said I was violent so I punched him in the face to teach him not to tell lies.
It's isn't that simple, it's not like choosing the sentinel will magically make the other guy a traitor. There are 4 episodes of stuff happening before we get to confront the traitor. Ok, Ser Royland get's to be sentinel, then you agree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (he had his reasons)
Ser royland get's to be sentinel, then u disagree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (don't make sense)
See?
It shouldn't be that simple but it is Name Duncan sentinel > Royland is traitor. Name Royland sentinel > Duncan is traitor. That's ho… morew simple it is. Of course, with luck, your playthrough might make it look like there are other reasons for it but as I said the problem is you can play a playthrough where you do everything as the traitor says and then he betrays you because he doesn't like your decisions.
Now if the reason for betraying is something totally outside of any choices (including the sentinel choice) then why doesn't he do it even if he is sentinel?
Cold fact: Only the choice with Ethan about who is the sentinel affects on who will be the traitor. Nothing else, period.
Now perhaps they could try to do some explaining in the last episode (don't see how) OR even make it so that both of them are traitors, but for now the fact is that the badge/title and not having it is the real reason for the betrayal.
Oh, Duncan sai… [view original content]
Some players might not want Gared, Mira, Ethan, Asher, & Rodrik to all share a hive mind, and said players may therefore decide to play each character with a personality unique from the others. It's also possible that a player saw Ethan die after staying peaceful/violent, and therefore thought "Maybe it'll work better to do the opposite this time..." Seeing Ethan's fate, they may have played Rodrik differently to avoid such a thing happening to him as well.
You can agree with Duncan/Royland on every single thing in the whole game aside from that one choice, yet they'll act as though you're their antithesis because your deceased younger brother didn't give them a bracelet and a promotion.
firstly, cause it's the same exact person playing.
secondly, if that makes sense, then u choosing someone who disagrees with you to be sentinel and he betraying you is only natural.
Ser royland get's to be sentinel, then u disagree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (don't make sense) See?
See what? You just said it yourself, that scenario makes no sense. In that scenario the only reason for Duncan to be traitor is that he wasn't chosen sentinel.
Let's just say that the traitor thingie can make sense - if you happen to play such a playthrough. And if you don't, then it's kinda, "I didn't get the badge from you 12 years old brother, you suck, I betray you."
It's isn't that simple, it's not like choosing the sentinel will magically make the other guy a traitor. There are 4 episodes of stuff happe… morening before we get to confront the traitor. Ok, Ser Royland get's to be sentinel, then you agree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (he had his reasons)
Ser royland get's to be sentinel, then u disagree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (don't make sense)
See?
Ser royland get's to be sentinel, then u disagree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (don't make sense) See?
See what? You just … moresaid it yourself, that scenario makes no sense. In that scenario the only reason for Duncan to be traitor is that he wasn't chosen sentinel.
Let's just say that the traitor thingie can make sense - if you happen to play such a playthrough. And if you don't, then it's kinda, "I didn't get the badge from you 12 years old brother, you suck, I betray you."
Even if he betrayed Rodrik because he didn't get the bracelet, it still makes sense, i don't think that's the case, but maybe it just makes more sense in some playthroughs.
Some players might not want Gared, Mira, Ethan, Asher, & Rodrik to all share a hive mind, and said players may therefore decide to play … moreeach character with a personality unique from the others. It's also possible that a player saw Ethan die after staying peaceful/violent, and therefore thought "Maybe it'll work better to do the opposite this time..." Seeing Ethan's fate, they may have played Rodrik differently to avoid such a thing happening to him as well.
You can agree with Duncan/Royland on every single thing in the whole game aside from that one choice, yet they'll act as though you're their antithesis because your deceased younger brother didn't give them a bracelet and a promotion.
We made the choice after just half an episode and hardly any interactions with them. We got the first impression yes, but I go to each decision by looking at what is the situation at hand, not by blindly following whoever I chose sentinel in episode 1. And some people even roleplay the characters, so for them the sentinel choice was Ethan's and (most of) the rest were Rodrik's - and if you roleplay it makes sense they make different kind of choices.
Anyway, I see your point and it could be that Telltale indeed trusted too much that people would follow mostly their sentinel's advises.
We made the choice after just half an episode and hardly any interactions with them. We got the first impression yes, but I go to each decis… moreion by looking at what is the situation at hand, not by blindly following whoever I chose sentinel in episode 1. And some people even roleplay the characters, so for them the sentinel choice was Ethan's and (most of) the rest were Rodrik's - and if you roleplay it makes sense they make different kind of choices.
Anyway, I see your point and it could be that Telltale indeed trusted too much that people would follow mostly their sentinel's advises.
"You're not a leader. You're a wounded solider trying to prove he's still a man"
That hit home for me.
I've always said that even though it isn't explicitly stated, there IS a wrong way to play this game. Anyone who thought the traitor scene didn't make sense is obviously choosing wrong.
Problem is that if you play Ethen and Rodrick as diffrent persons it doesn't make sense unless my game was buged.
Ethen picked Duncan and I got the Ethen The Wise song.
Rodrick wanted to fight, and agreed with Royland, yet he still became the traitor and accused Rodrick of being weak and so on.
I see, totally true. But the sentinel choice can resume all of those things in one choice, since players who want to fight (Royland) or use … morediplomacy (Duncan). U feel me? like, since i chose Roy, and did what he suggested most of time, it made perfect sense, because Duncs had a lot of reasons.
Even if he betrayed Rodrik because he didn't get the bracelet, it still makes sense, i don't think that's the case, but maybe it just makes more sense in some playthroughs.
It would make sense that, for example, for a peaceful and diplomatic Ethan to choose a military adviser since that’s the knowledge that he lacks, and then keep to a more neutral or diplomatic path (that is his way).
If TT was to make the traitor’s identity depend on our choice (and it is interesting that they made this only for the choice that could not depend on us and still make sense), the criteria should be more than just one choice that a dead character made in the first episode.
And, also, no. This idea that “well, it is not the same character, but it is the same player” is no excuse. This idea of multiple characters presupposes multiple personalities.
Blaming Rodrik for Ethan’s decision is like if Asher stops in KL on his way north and Margery tells him “how could you side with Tyrion?!?”.
I don't know if made that perfectly, i understand his reasons, but since he knew about the attack on Asher's troops, a war was inevitable, so doesn't make sense help Gryff escape with the excuse of avoiding it.
And that's exactly what Duncan said in his defense
Is it me or is that the generic over done reason for a betrayal? I still think it's psychotic one of Ethan's decisions impacted Rodrik. This episode really killed any suspense built up to the traitor for me and felt wasted
Comments
that's exactly what i said. then it's not telltale, it's u who don't make sense, by choosing Royland as sentinel, and being peaceful like Duncan says u should be.
Duncan/Royland won't betray u because he didn't get the title/badge, if u think it's that simple, then nevermind.
It made no sense at all. It was basically "Your brother didn't give me the shiny bracelet so fuck this house."
The player in that scenario makes perfect sense.
Firstly, Ethan chooses the sentinel, but Rodrik is the one who receives their criticisms. If Ethan was peaceful, why must Rodrik, a different person, have to follow in his footsteps? Duncan/Royland fault Rodrik for Ethan's morals.
Secondly, even if it were one character or the player played them both the same way, it makes perfect sense to choose a sentinel who has the opposite views as you. If the lord is extremely peaceful, what good is choosing the peaceful man as his second? That's simply making him your yes-man. If all the sentinel is going to say is "Good idea, boss!" then his input is hardly valuable. A peaceful player might choose Royland instead. That way the house would have more balanced leadership, with debate allowing them to weigh out the pros and cons of both possible actions.
It shouldn't be that simple but it is
Name Duncan sentinel > Royland is traitor. Name Royland sentinel > Duncan is traitor. That's how simple it is. Of course, with luck, your playthrough might make it look like there are other reasons for it but as I said the problem is you can play a playthrough where you do everything as the traitor says and then he betrays you because he doesn't like your decisions.
Now if the reason for betraying is something totally outside of any choices (including the sentinel choice) then why doesn't he do it even if he is sentinel?
Cold fact: Only the choice with Ethan about who is the sentinel affects on who will be the traitor. Nothing else, period.
Now perhaps they could try to do some explaining in the last episode (don't see how) OR even make it so that both of them are traitors, but for now the fact is that the badge/title and not having it is the real reason for the betrayal.
Oh, Duncan said the reason is because Rodrik is violent? Then WHY doesn't he betray him for that reason as a sentinel? Just asking, I mean Rodrik isn't even the one who blessed him with the badge
No, this does not make sense at all still. Even if you play like you did, the character traits from both Duncan/Royland and their actions don't add up. One of the better examples I can give is episode 4 when you go to Highpoint and you can choose to bring one or the other. When things heat up, regardless if they're your sentinel or not, both people draw their swords and make it clear they're ready to kill the Whitehills. Would a traitor really be ready to fight and die for the person they're betraying? No.
firstly, cause it's the same exact person playing.
secondly, if that makes sense, then u choosing someone who disagrees with you to be sentinel and he betraying you is only natural.
lmao, "i'm not violent, *punches guy in the face"
It's isn't that simple, it's not like choosing the sentinel will magically make the other guy a traitor. There are 4 episodes of stuff happening before we get to confront the traitor. Ok, Ser Royland get's to be sentinel, then you agree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (he had his reasons)
Ser royland get's to be sentinel, then u disagree with him everytime, Duncan betrays you (don't make sense)
See?
Some players might not want Gared, Mira, Ethan, Asher, & Rodrik to all share a hive mind, and said players may therefore decide to play each character with a personality unique from the others. It's also possible that a player saw Ethan die after staying peaceful/violent, and therefore thought "Maybe it'll work better to do the opposite this time..." Seeing Ethan's fate, they may have played Rodrik differently to avoid such a thing happening to him as well.
You can agree with Duncan/Royland on every single thing in the whole game aside from that one choice, yet they'll act as though you're their antithesis because your deceased younger brother didn't give them a bracelet and a promotion.
See what? You just said it yourself, that scenario makes no sense. In that scenario the only reason for Duncan to be traitor is that he wasn't chosen sentinel.
Let's just say that the traitor thingie can make sense - if you happen to play such a playthrough. And if you don't, then it's kinda, "I didn't get the badge from you 12 years old brother, you suck, I betray you."
Sure, but what i said that doesn't make sense is he being the sentinel u chose and then disagreeing with him.
Lol, nope. The traitor thing was the most ridiculous thing in telltale history.
Even if he betrayed Rodrik because he didn't get the bracelet, it still makes sense, i don't think that's the case, but maybe it just makes more sense in some playthroughs.
To be fair, that bracelet is pretty amazing.
We made the choice after just half an episode and hardly any interactions with them. We got the first impression yes, but I go to each decision by looking at what is the situation at hand, not by blindly following whoever I chose sentinel in episode 1. And some people even roleplay the characters, so for them the sentinel choice was Ethan's and (most of) the rest were Rodrik's - and if you roleplay it makes sense they make different kind of choices.
Anyway, I see your point and it could be that Telltale indeed trusted too much that people would follow mostly their sentinel's advises.
I'll try to play the game roleplaying as the characters
Well, then you understand what I'm saying
they just needed a reason to kill off one between Duncan/royland for plot reasons and couldn't think of anything better
"You're not a leader. You're a wounded solider trying to prove he's still a man"
That hit home for me.
I've always said that even though it isn't explicitly stated, there IS a wrong way to play this game. Anyone who thought the traitor scene didn't make sense is obviously choosing wrong.
Problem is that if you play Ethen and Rodrick as diffrent persons it doesn't make sense unless my game was buged.
Ethen picked Duncan and I got the Ethen The Wise song.
Rodrick wanted to fight, and agreed with Royland, yet he still became the traitor and accused Rodrick of being weak and so on.
"They must learn of our peaceful ways... by force"
maybe royland thinks rodrik is weak even if he wants to fight, idk.
It honestly doesn't make sense in any playthrough. Ever.
off course it does, if u like it or not, it's another topic.
There is fist in every pacifist.
If anything it was very predictable.
No, it really doesn’t; and yes, it is TT fault.
It would make sense that, for example, for a peaceful and diplomatic Ethan to choose a military adviser since that’s the knowledge that he lacks, and then keep to a more neutral or diplomatic path (that is his way).
If TT was to make the traitor’s identity depend on our choice (and it is interesting that they made this only for the choice that could not depend on us and still make sense), the criteria should be more than just one choice that a dead character made in the first episode.
And, also, no. This idea that “well, it is not the same character, but it is the same player” is no excuse. This idea of multiple characters presupposes multiple personalities.
Blaming Rodrik for Ethan’s decision is like if Asher stops in KL on his way north and Margery tells him “how could you side with Tyrion?!?”.
Nope, there are already enough threads and comments the adequately explain why it doesn't.
I personally have no problem with how the traitor reveal was handled.
I don't know if made that perfectly, i understand his reasons, but since he knew about the attack on Asher's troops, a war was inevitable, so doesn't make sense help Gryff escape with the excuse of avoiding it.
Is it me or is that the generic over done reason for a betrayal? I still think it's psychotic one of Ethan's decisions impacted Rodrik. This episode really killed any suspense built up to the traitor for me and felt wasted