Yeah wtf was up with that, first he trains with Rodrik in the grove and encourages him, he shouts at Gryff that he has no honor when Gryff punches Rodrik, and then he uses cripple as an insult?? Major OCC moment imo
I still don't get how giving information to the enemy constituted as 'saving the House'.
Especially if you consider that the traitor was … moreprobably the guy who let the Whitehall soldiers in during the end of Episode 1. That got Ethan killed. It made no sense of either Royland or Duncan to do that.
I see where you are coming from and somewhat agree with opinion. If the writing had better subtle leads and clues as to why the traitor became who they are, then it would have been a better outcome. The games lack of back story seems to be a consequence of the multiple playable characters. While the idea of multiple perspective having choices that can possibly impact the other story lines, I think there was a combination of just too many story lines, an unconfirmed strict release schedule implemented by HBO, and the limited time frame in TellTale's games. We have one more episode to go, so I'm interested to see how they wrap this up and see if they can end it on a good note.
I still disagree with the Maester being the traitor, especially if he is the only traitor in the game. While I understand why people say he should be (least connected to the family, unusually knowledgeable, M.I.A on a frequent basis, the only main cast member with nothing to lose by being a traitor), I feel like it would have been to obvious. For me, I would just be waiting for the obvious to happen. With that, we would still have the current issue of choices seeming pointless, only that now it would be focused on why the need to choose a Sentinel.
I feel the if there was more time between Ethan's death and Rodrick's return, we could have had the non-Sentinel and Sentinel frequently argue and disagree with Lady Forrester failing to control the situation. This could lead to the traitor betraying the house. If you heeded the advice of the traitor, the confrontation could show that the traitor regretted the decision and tried to stop the damage but failed. This would add some sympathy towards the traitor as his action were based on events before Rodrick's return. If you go against him, he blames you just as much as he blames the Sentinel. Your action are so against what he thinks is right, that he genuinely thinks his betrayal saved everyone's life. Mixed actions and choices result in a mixed response from the traitor. I think this would solve the problem people have of agreeing with the non-Sentinel just to have him blame you for not siding with him.
Again, I like the Roland/Duncan option more than the Maester (or in some theories, Lady Forrester) idea. It had the potential. The idea was good. The execution wasn't the best. Like you said, the writing is to blame. I honestly believe, however, that if it didn't seem like Mira's story just stalled, there wouldn't be so much dissatisfaction.
but it is not that bad.
No, the writing is quite bad. O.k, you wouldn't have cared if the maester turned out to be the traitor. That… more's fair enough. But making it determinate between Duncan and Royland is just very poor writing. It's nonsensical, impossible to predict, and just downright annoying.
I feel like this was the only logical choice (for what we had in the game so far)
Well, yeah, and that's the problem. The writer's didn't have the forethought to work out how to handle the traitor reveal early in the writing stages; who it would be and why. So the only choice they had left themselves was to just tack on an explanation which made zero sense and was out of character for both of them. They basically just listed the negative points of decisions you've made. It made it shocking, but in a bad way. In a 'I literally do not believe this game' way, as opposed to a 'How did I not realise the traitor was him?' way.
So, … [view original content]
I think the scene can either be more solid or not, depending on your choices.
It's a lot like with the stranger in TWD. Certain choices m… moreake the scene with him make a lot more sense, and make some of his views and points seem justified, if not valid. On the other hand, different choices makes that whole scene feel a bit cheap, and his reasoning and justifications are a lot more flimsy.
The traitor largely suffers from the same problem. Duncan and Royland can both have some fairly solid points depending on what choices you've made, ones that give some credence to the idea of them turning cloaks. However, other paths just make it look quite sloppy, and basically whittle their primary reason for betraying you down to "I didn't get that sweet-ass arm cuff! Go fuck yourself!"
I read the comment on YouTube the person had Duncan as sentinel, but he did the Roylands decision instead for his. And if you do it, Duncan is the traitor
It shoudn't ever be Duncan, that doesn't make sense. Royland was always a possibility, but Duncan doesn't fit the bill in any sense. Still, I feel that Royland turning out to be traitor does him a huge disservice and tarnishes his character. It would have made for a far better turn storywise if it had been mum, someone you can't just easily bring yourself to kill(and probably wouldn't get the choice to do so). Royland's so large an advocate for war, and doing things that ultimately make things much worse, that he's the fucking butler, and I thought telltale would be better than that, and avoid the butler trope, or that 'oh, you want it so badly, maybe you're the traitor'. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. Show some bloody consistency in your character arcs. Ham. Handed.
But I was wrong. I called it being Elissa, and I was wrong. I mean, at this point, damn the 'choices need to matter' bit, it really should have been anyone but Duncan or Royland.
It kind of reminds me of a book series I read where the deputy to the leader seemed like he'd never be a villain but it turns out it was all a façade. I saw this one coming as soon as the Traitor was announced.
There is still the possibility of Gared staying at the North Grove. At least that could be possible if its a citadel which holds of the cold, like Sylvi said. Or he could use a boat. Or he uses an "ice dragon" to come back and freeze Highpoint to the ground, then their name really would fit: "Whitehill"
Even if in GOT a lot of people are selfish, i don't think that it was the case with this situation, not being chosen as a Sentinel doesn't justify the betrayal that's why it feels so cheap and out of character for both of them...
Am I the only one that's okay with how they handled it? I mean, people in Westeros are just all-around terrible people and it was hinted at … morein the first episode that both Duncan and Royland wanted that position of power (Sentinel). I really don't think it was bad writing, I think it accurately depicted how selfish and ungrateful people are in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
Even if in GOT a lot of people are selfish, i don't think that it was the case with this situation, not being chosen as a Sentinel doesn't justify the betrayal that's why it feels so cheap and out of character for both of them...
There is still the possibility of Gared staying at the North Grove. At least that could be possible if its a citadel which holds of the cold… more, like Sylvi said. Or he could use a boat. Or he uses an "ice dragon" to come back and freeze Highpoint to the ground, then their name really would fit: "Whitehill"
There is nothing he could find that could help House Forrester "currently", at least imo. What could be there that cant get invovled in the tv show but that is so powerful to destroy other houses? I think its a citadel which keeps the cold out and where ironwood is stored.
What I don't understand is that we never got to choose a new sentinel after Rodrik became lord. The Maester told Ethan that EVERY NEW LORD chooses his own sentinel, yet we never do as Rodrik. Just another TT plot hole.
Except, it doesn't matter if you agreed with your non sentinel or nother on particular issues. In the end, the traitor would always be your non sentinel.
In my playthrough, it made sense for Duncan to be the traitor other than just making Royland the sentinel. For the most part, my Roderick ag… morereed with Royland more than Duncan on how to handle things, and in other cases, I ended up saying fuck you to diplomacy which was what Duncan preferred. So when it was revealed that Duncan betrayed me, it made sense.
Yup, the traitor should have always been the same person, and the writing around that person could have been infinitely better throughout the game. For me, when Royland revealed his reasons for betraying me, I killed him right away because I was so mad about how stupid his reasons where and how they made zero sense. It was like I was punishing the telltale writers by taking him down
There is nothing he could find that could help House Forrester "currently", at least imo. What could be there that cant get invovled in the … moretv show but that is so powerful to destroy other houses? I think its a citadel which keeps the cold out and where ironwood is stored.
For the first time in any TT game I seriously think they should redo this episode. It's so full of illogical BS and plot holes it hurts my head. It was also the shortest episode by far. It's like they didn't put any effort into it at all. I know it will never happen, but they could at least patch it with more factors in determining the traitor, not purely by matter of choosing your sentinel. And at least give that assh-le Gryff an eye patch. I want to see the result of me beating the crap out of him.
On my playthrough, I had Royland as my Sentinel, tried to show the Whitehills that I wouldn't let the Forresters be bullied and got terrible results, so Duncan's betrayal made sense to me - if he thought that Rodrick was too reckless and was dragging House Forrester into a war they were sure to lose, he could see selling Rodrick out as the only way to avert bloodshed, and maybe extract some promises that Ludd would allow some kind of existence for House Forrester when he could crush them utterly. I looked at this thread to see how different things would be if Rodrick took the softer option - I could see Royland wanting to bring him down in that case, but "Rodrick is too weak, he gives in to Ludd when he should be fighting - I must pass information to Ludd so that Ludd can easily win any conflict" didn't seem to work - and was somewhat disappointed by what I found out.
Definetly. But that way at least Gared would survive. Since (in my playthrough) Asher is dead for coming back and Rodrik has a "determinant" status and will probably die next episode because of that, I hope Gared stays out of all this problems. Iam just sad that Asher died for getting involved and I fear that this will happen to Gared too, cause he is a deserter (and "brother-killer) from the nights watch and will never finde peace if he returns. It would be bad for house Forrester if hes not helping them, but like I said, I believe the North Grove cant help the Forresters currently.
And Mira is probably doomed as well. Iam thinking about making a discussion about my theory. Mira has found/stole so many items (determinant) which havent been used yet: The dagger, the key, the decree and she still has Margaerys seal. I believe that someone will accuse Mira of stealing and they will find all this things in her inventory or stored in her room. Then it will be revealed that she killed a Lannister guard and worked with Tyrion. I think she will die because of that, cause she has done too many things and probably no one to defend her since Margaery wants to replace her, Sera left her, Tyrion is imprisoned and Cersei doesnt care for her (even if she helped her with Tyrion imo). The only way she could survive is with the help of Tom. He could make all this items disappear and maybe even put all this things in Sera's room, so we can blame her. Be we have to assume that Tom is working for Varys and not for Olenna or someone else. I dont think anyone else would let that happen. Or maybe its important how you treated Tom, if you were nice to him he will help you, otherwise he wont.
Iam excited to see how this game will end. I hope we get a "good" end, but I doubt that.
This is the telltale's STUPIDEST desision. This episode was the concentration of telltale's laziness. Neither Duncan, nor Royland have real motives to betray Rodrik. It was such a disappointment, which shows that Telltale don't give a damn about people who buy it's games. Not mentioning stupid final scene and the fact that Griff was miracly healed!
Yea. I didn't see that one coming. I never expected Ser Roylad, or Duncan to be Traitors.
I revelaed to Rodrik mother that there is a traitor among us, and told her I suspect it to be the Maester. He immediately recommended that we offer the the Iron Wood to Ethan, so I thought he was going for the gold.
At least that would have been a better scenario than you didn't pick me, so I betrayed you.
Except, it doesn't matter if you agreed with your non sentinel or nother on particular issues. In the end, the traitor would always be your non sentinel.
Yes, clearly it's all our fault because we asked Telltale to make more meaningful choices. What a bunch of assholes we are for asking such perfectly reasonable request in an episodic game that highlights making choices.
i dont want to be harsh but thats what we get for keeping asking that our choices actually matters (not everybody but still). First time (al… moremost) a choice matter (sentinel choice) and first time a TTG game has such a big plot hole. Lets wait patiently, dont add more presure to Telltale and hope they will continue to do the great job they've been doing all these years. Despite this, i think TTG - GOT its still great.
This is the telltale's STUPIDEST desision. This episode was the concentration of telltale's laziness. Neither Duncan, nor Royland have real … moremotives to betray Rodrik. It was such a disappointment, which shows that Telltale don't give a damn about people who buy it's games. Not mentioning stupid final scene and the fact that Griff was miracly healed!
Should have been Elissa, if only because so many players wanted the traitor dead and having it as a close family member would've made for a way more morally complex choice.
I read the comment on YouTube the person had Duncan as sentinel, but he did the Roylands decision instead for his. And if you do it, Duncan is the traitor
There was so much great speculation about the traitor thing, I'm really disappointed with what happened here, with this classic "you don't listen to me, I betray you" but "I did it for the family" thing. At least they could have made it deeper for showing more about these man.
Anyway, the ending was touching and I had a great time for my first play.
how a glitch like that happened? i believe they have testers for that stuff. plus its not like just few people who had that issue, its for all players who did play the game. so i dont think its a glitch, they danced around the fact that they ''forgot;; to include that. i only say that because it was weird. if it was a glitch then why everyone complained and not one person who said that they actually had gryff maimed? i wish that telltale could at least own up to their mistakes and not dance around the issue as much. i love telltale, but i wont be easy on them if they f*ck up or when they get lazy. i dont like when they do that.
yeah, the ending saved this episode for me. asher's scenes were my favourite. and gared also, if they were longer. the rest i was disappointed with actually.
There was so much great speculation about the traitor thing, I'm really disappointed with what happened here, with this classic "you don't l… moreisten to me, I betray you" but "I did it for the family" thing. At least they could have made it deeper for showing more about these man.
Anyway, the ending was touching and I had a great time for my first play.
--->
Yes, Duncan betraying House Forrester to the assholes who killed his father and niece isn't bad writingr. I mean, would you betray your house to the people who killed your family just prove a point?
Am I the only one that's okay with how they handled it? I mean, people in Westeros are just all-around terrible people and it was hinted at … morein the first episode that both Duncan and Royland wanted that position of power (Sentinel). I really don't think it was bad writing, I think it accurately depicted how selfish and ungrateful people are in Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire.
In my playthrough, it made sense for Duncan to be the traitor other than just making Royland the sentinel. For the most part, my Roderick ag… morereed with Royland more than Duncan on how to handle things, and in other cases, I ended up saying fuck you to diplomacy which was what Duncan preferred. So when it was revealed that Duncan betrayed me, it made sense.
Comments
Yeah wtf was up with that, first he trains with Rodrik in the grove and encourages him, he shouts at Gryff that he has no honor when Gryff punches Rodrik, and then he uses cripple as an insult?? Major OCC moment imo
Good point. Hopefully we will get an answer from the traitor in the final episode ( I spared Duncan).
I see where you are coming from and somewhat agree with opinion. If the writing had better subtle leads and clues as to why the traitor became who they are, then it would have been a better outcome. The games lack of back story seems to be a consequence of the multiple playable characters. While the idea of multiple perspective having choices that can possibly impact the other story lines, I think there was a combination of just too many story lines, an unconfirmed strict release schedule implemented by HBO, and the limited time frame in TellTale's games. We have one more episode to go, so I'm interested to see how they wrap this up and see if they can end it on a good note.
I still disagree with the Maester being the traitor, especially if he is the only traitor in the game. While I understand why people say he should be (least connected to the family, unusually knowledgeable, M.I.A on a frequent basis, the only main cast member with nothing to lose by being a traitor), I feel like it would have been to obvious. For me, I would just be waiting for the obvious to happen. With that, we would still have the current issue of choices seeming pointless, only that now it would be focused on why the need to choose a Sentinel.
I feel the if there was more time between Ethan's death and Rodrick's return, we could have had the non-Sentinel and Sentinel frequently argue and disagree with Lady Forrester failing to control the situation. This could lead to the traitor betraying the house. If you heeded the advice of the traitor, the confrontation could show that the traitor regretted the decision and tried to stop the damage but failed. This would add some sympathy towards the traitor as his action were based on events before Rodrick's return. If you go against him, he blames you just as much as he blames the Sentinel. Your action are so against what he thinks is right, that he genuinely thinks his betrayal saved everyone's life. Mixed actions and choices result in a mixed response from the traitor. I think this would solve the problem people have of agreeing with the non-Sentinel just to have him blame you for not siding with him.
Again, I like the Roland/Duncan option more than the Maester (or in some theories, Lady Forrester) idea. It had the potential. The idea was good. The execution wasn't the best. Like you said, the writing is to blame. I honestly believe, however, that if it didn't seem like Mira's story just stalled, there wouldn't be so much dissatisfaction.
Deleted.
Couldn't agree with you more; you and @shellturtleguy. The flaw was for people whose actions sided with the traitor.
It doesn't really matter. Since both of them can be traitors, the loyal one will die in nex episodes because of plot
Impossible, Vaughn's abs are rock solid, he couldn't be flayed even if God Himself wanted him to be.
I read the comment on YouTube the person had Duncan as sentinel, but he did the Roylands decision instead for his. And if you do it, Duncan is the traitor
I 100% agree.
It shoudn't ever be Duncan, that doesn't make sense. Royland was always a possibility, but Duncan doesn't fit the bill in any sense. Still, I feel that Royland turning out to be traitor does him a huge disservice and tarnishes his character. It would have made for a far better turn storywise if it had been mum, someone you can't just easily bring yourself to kill(and probably wouldn't get the choice to do so). Royland's so large an advocate for war, and doing things that ultimately make things much worse, that he's the fucking butler, and I thought telltale would be better than that, and avoid the butler trope, or that 'oh, you want it so badly, maybe you're the traitor'. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. Show some bloody consistency in your character arcs. Ham. Handed.
But I was wrong. I called it being Elissa, and I was wrong. I mean, at this point, damn the 'choices need to matter' bit, it really should have been anyone but Duncan or Royland.
It kind of reminds me of a book series I read where the deputy to the leader seemed like he'd never be a villain but it turns out it was all a façade. I saw this one coming as soon as the Traitor was announced.
There is still the possibility of Gared staying at the North Grove. At least that could be possible if its a citadel which holds of the cold, like Sylvi said. Or he could use a boat. Or he uses an "ice dragon" to come back and freeze Highpoint to the ground, then their name really would fit: "Whitehill"
Even if in GOT a lot of people are selfish, i don't think that it was the case with this situation, not being chosen as a Sentinel doesn't justify the betrayal that's why it feels so cheap and out of character for both of them...
Sorry, but I really don't think it was as cheap as other people say it is.
If it's a bunker for Gared to stay like you say, how could it help house Forrester currently ?
There is nothing he could find that could help House Forrester "currently", at least imo. What could be there that cant get invovled in the tv show but that is so powerful to destroy other houses? I think its a citadel which keeps the cold out and where ironwood is stored.
What I don't understand is that we never got to choose a new sentinel after Rodrik became lord. The Maester told Ethan that EVERY NEW LORD chooses his own sentinel, yet we never do as Rodrik. Just another TT plot hole.
Except, it doesn't matter if you agreed with your non sentinel or nother on particular issues. In the end, the traitor would always be your non sentinel.
Yup, the traitor should have always been the same person, and the writing around that person could have been infinitely better throughout the game. For me, when Royland revealed his reasons for betraying me, I killed him right away because I was so mad about how stupid his reasons where and how they made zero sense. It was like I was punishing the telltale writers by taking him down
That would suck imo
There are fewer characters,but Telltale still has to write 4 scripts.
For the first time in any TT game I seriously think they should redo this episode. It's so full of illogical BS and plot holes it hurts my head. It was also the shortest episode by far. It's like they didn't put any effort into it at all. I know it will never happen, but they could at least patch it with more factors in determining the traitor, not purely by matter of choosing your sentinel. And at least give that assh-le Gryff an eye patch. I want to see the result of me beating the crap out of him.
On my playthrough, I had Royland as my Sentinel, tried to show the Whitehills that I wouldn't let the Forresters be bullied and got terrible results, so Duncan's betrayal made sense to me - if he thought that Rodrick was too reckless and was dragging House Forrester into a war they were sure to lose, he could see selling Rodrick out as the only way to avert bloodshed, and maybe extract some promises that Ludd would allow some kind of existence for House Forrester when he could crush them utterly. I looked at this thread to see how different things would be if Rodrick took the softer option - I could see Royland wanting to bring him down in that case, but "Rodrick is too weak, he gives in to Ludd when he should be fighting - I must pass information to Ludd so that Ludd can easily win any conflict" didn't seem to work - and was somewhat disappointed by what I found out.
Definetly. But that way at least Gared would survive. Since (in my playthrough) Asher is dead for coming back and Rodrik has a "determinant" status and will probably die next episode because of that, I hope Gared stays out of all this problems. Iam just sad that Asher died for getting involved and I fear that this will happen to Gared too, cause he is a deserter (and "brother-killer) from the nights watch and will never finde peace if he returns. It would be bad for house Forrester if hes not helping them, but like I said, I believe the North Grove cant help the Forresters currently.
And Mira is probably doomed as well. Iam thinking about making a discussion about my theory. Mira has found/stole so many items (determinant) which havent been used yet: The dagger, the key, the decree and she still has Margaerys seal. I believe that someone will accuse Mira of stealing and they will find all this things in her inventory or stored in her room. Then it will be revealed that she killed a Lannister guard and worked with Tyrion. I think she will die because of that, cause she has done too many things and probably no one to defend her since Margaery wants to replace her, Sera left her, Tyrion is imprisoned and Cersei doesnt care for her (even if she helped her with Tyrion imo). The only way she could survive is with the help of Tom. He could make all this items disappear and maybe even put all this things in Sera's room, so we can blame her. Be we have to assume that Tom is working for Varys and not for Olenna or someone else. I dont think anyone else would let that happen. Or maybe its important how you treated Tom, if you were nice to him he will help you, otherwise he wont.
Iam excited to see how this game will end. I hope we get a "good" end, but I doubt that.
This is the telltale's STUPIDEST desision. This episode was the concentration of telltale's laziness. Neither Duncan, nor Royland have real motives to betray Rodrik. It was such a disappointment, which shows that Telltale don't give a damn about people who buy it's games. Not mentioning stupid final scene and the fact that Griff was miracly healed!
I would actually prefer this than what we got.
Yea. I didn't see that one coming. I never expected Ser Roylad, or Duncan to be Traitors.
I revelaed to Rodrik mother that there is a traitor among us, and told her I suspect it to be the Maester. He immediately recommended that we offer the the Iron Wood to Ethan, so I thought he was going for the gold.
At least that would have been a better scenario than you didn't pick me, so I betrayed you.
Telltale...
Don't care.
Yes, clearly it's all our fault because we asked Telltale to make more meaningful choices. What a bunch of assholes we are for asking such perfectly reasonable request in an episodic game that highlights making choices.
The Gryff thing was a glitch
if it were Elissa, Talia wouldn't want her dead.
Much less convoluted than what we got in the game.
And, unlike the actual game events, it works in both cases.
I've read that too but I'd much rather see proof of this happening. YouTube comments aren't always the most reliable of sources at times
Please let this be canon, we find the traitor tied up next episode and the traitor was a faceless man
There was so much great speculation about the traitor thing, I'm really disappointed with what happened here, with this classic "you don't listen to me, I betray you" but "I did it for the family" thing. At least they could have made it deeper for showing more about these man.
Anyway, the ending was touching and I had a great time for my first play.
--->
how a glitch like that happened? i believe they have testers for that stuff. plus its not like just few people who had that issue, its for all players who did play the game. so i dont think its a glitch, they danced around the fact that they ''forgot;; to include that. i only say that because it was weird. if it was a glitch then why everyone complained and not one person who said that they actually had gryff maimed? i wish that telltale could at least own up to their mistakes and not dance around the issue as much. i love telltale, but i wont be easy on them if they f*ck up or when they get lazy. i dont like when they do that.
yeah, the ending saved this episode for me. asher's scenes were my favourite. and gared also, if they were longer. the rest i was disappointed with actually.
Yes, Duncan betraying House Forrester to the assholes who killed his father and niece isn't bad writingr. I mean, would you betray your house to the people who killed your family just prove a point?
Yes, Duncan betraying his house to the people who KILLED his brother and niece makes a whole lot sense.