Who is Iron from Ice?
Throughout this forum, there's been many discussions about which brother is the best choice to lead the House at the end of Episode 5. Many have been arguing that Asher is the most logical choice even story wise because he is in better shape and also had to endure a long and harsh journey to bring an army to aid his House. However, as I already wrote in other post, after Asher got his leg injured with an arrow, he even moves slower than Rodrik to reach the gate levers and both fight in the same level from this scene on, so the first thing doesnt really count. Asher really is taking the role of the prodigal son who went through hell to go back and save his family, that's true. There's no problem if you enjoyed more your adventure time (no pun intended) with Asher, battling against savages and thugs of all types, facing dragons and developing your relationship with Beshka (mostly) and Malcom. Asher also developed his personality and had to make harsh decisions.
At the same time we can admit he can be more likable than Rodrik for most too. I mean, at least he can have some fun, shout out some sarcastic lines while facing enemies and dangers, doing his tasks. He is totally like the Starlord from Guardians of The Galaxy. His face even resembles Chris Pratt lol. He is also as loyal as Rodrik. Which is why both of the brothers were willing to give his life to save the other. Both are great. But even though Asher went through hell to get his redemption, what about all the crap Rodrik had to put with? Yeah, I can actually get that Asher's route is the fun one. Yet, at the same time, Rodrik's path was the worst one. He was severely injured and almost died. He had to drag himself out of the corpse cart where he even saw his deceased father rotting. His condition was horrible, the Maester even feared he could not ever walk again. He had to put up with all the humiliation from his enemies that were causing havoc and destroyed most of their Castle and family belongings. They even took part in killing Ethan and kidnapped his younger brother.
Rodrik was disgraced in public, in front of his own people. He feared that the girl he were betrothed to wouldnt love him anymore because of his scars, damaged looks and house's current situation. To get even worse, now he couldn't even trust the small group of people he had because one of them was a traitor. He was called "the Ruined". He was seen as breakable. He was seen as Ice. He faced moral, emotional and strenght trials. But even with all the trauma and responsibility, did Rodrik give up? Did Rodrik confirm others judgement and stayed on the ruins? Was he Ice? No. It was up to him to remain strong and make a stand. He held the reins. He served as the emotional and heart pillar of his family. He guided Talia and served as her role model, also helped his mother to stay strong, even with the younger sibling away. He showed he got what it takes to win his girl back despite all these obstacles. He had to make the right calls, to decide when to be harsh and severe, when to confront his enemies, but also when to do the thinking and be clever.
He was determined that he would not remain a cripple as others said and laughed. He would not let the Whitehills mock his deceased brother and father while they oppressed his people with fear. Then, he slowly healed, evolved and turned into a real leader. A leader focused to one goal: His Family would not fall. The hardest job was on his shoulder, and he lived up to the task. Rodrik was tested in all the ways possible and showed that he, in fact, was not Ice. Rodrik is now Iron. Get your asses ready, Whitehills. Rodrik, The Unbreakable, is coming for you.
Comments
It's funny how many people seemed to miss Asher taking an arrow to the leg. He isn't going to be in any better shape than Rodrik for the finale. For me Iron from Ice is definitely Rodrik. The dude was chewed up, spit out and still managed to rise above it. As long as I have the ability to keep him alive and fighting, I'll do it. He's what Jaime Lannister is for me in the show/books, my favorite character.
It seems that the name "Rodrik the Unbreakable" really sticked. Oh how I wish that TT would include that in the 6th episode
Also, I agree with everything you said. Well-made points.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
We dont talk about those injures, just, forget about them...shhhhh
Smashed by a horse = Arrow in the leg -.-
Or...and hear me out, could the saying be linked with the North Grove?
Rodrik has had time to heal and burned his cane. Asher's wound is fresh and the arrow is still sticking through his leg.
But it was an crossbow arrow... I doubt it even reached the muscle. And I think Rodrick isn't fully healed.
Frankly, I dont know for sure what the North Grove is but, I personally think it may have something to do with it, yes. Some people here have some theories that MAYBE the North Grove could be a secret Ironwood Forest. It's just a theory. But if it was true, it would totally fit the words: Iron (Ironwood) from Ice (From the North of The Wall). Anyway, I just purposedly used it as a metaphor about Rodrik's Spirit throughout the series.
lmao, how would it not reach the muscle? Does Asher have titanium skin in your playthrough? That must be nice!
Since Asher can take a crossbow shot right in the heart in Ep3 and rip it off like it was nothing, yep he must have titanium skin.
I think it is time for TT to make it a bit more realistic and have some whitehill blood spilled as well atleast. Pretty obvious this story won't have a happy end but please atleast let us kill Gryff.
How can you tell that since Asher was badly moving just after taking the arrow? He was totally limping. Maybe you should remember how Achilles's Legend suposedly ended... xD
But seriously now, both are in similar fighting conditions. Just compare them after Asher took the arrow: Both of their solo scenes and even their alternate yolo one where they fight together. Also, remember Telltales limited capacities in this kind of thing, to be pretty honest =/. Ultimately, its about the bro who has your favor. Both are equally capable.
It's totally impossible for Rodrik to have survived episode one without total paralyzation (war horses weigh 1000kg - it wouldn't break some bones, it would crush anything it fell on beyond recovery), which makes any possible recovery arc for me unwinnable.
Telltale wrote themselves into a narrative hole with the way he dies, and as it stands, he shouldn't be riding around on a horse doing battle in the first place, which means if you accept Rodrik's cheesy recovery arc you have to accept a whole load of bullshit.
That's why I prefer Asher's story - narratively cleaner, and slightly less overdone than 'I was wounded an people thought i weak BUT NOW IM NOT WEAK LOOK ROAR' (not that exile redemption stories aren't tropes, just less common).
Also I think Asher's relationship with Beskha trumps any of Rodrik's relationships with anyone in terms of how well written it is.
Thank you for the compliment. I would also love to see this title as canon x)
Ok it was a fresh injurie of curse he would be really bad. But I don't think we should base our "Iron From Ice" in the best shape brother.
I agree TellTale will forget about this arrow and will forget about Rodrick's injuries too, I was just trying to prove my point :P
You seem to be forgetting that Rodrik was in full armor at the time. If you wanted to get realistic, then Asher's leg should be amputated in the next episode from the arrow he took through the leg.
Did you forget how fast Gryff healed in between episodes. That's what I call super healing and Asher will get that to.
We've already had it confirmed that TTG effed up and didn't render the proper face for some of us. Asher isn't going to turn into Wolverine.
Armour would not be able to withstand 1000kgs.
It's like dropping a car on a suit of armour. The suit would be as fucked as a baby on a treadmill.
Not looking at the full extent of one wound is very different to writing a character whose entire arc is specifically ABOUT being wounded, and having that be unrealistic.
The 'wounded but getting better' trope is Rodrik's main avenue of narrative, unlike Asher's, which is why when there is a big flaw with the very basis of said application of narrative, it damages character integrity.
You think horses weigh as much as cars? XD
Yeah the suit would definitely give, but it's possible it provided enough protection for him to survive. You're acting like people haven't defied the odds and survived crazy sh*t in real life. As I said in my previous comment, if you are so obsessed with realism then you should have an attitude about Asher not having his leg amputated next episode.
Yes - I do think that. Look it up. Horses weigh a surprising amount. average car weight is 1500kg, average war horse weight is 1100kg - not that far off.
People really wouldn't survive shit like that in real life without modern medecine :P
Again, it's not so much an obsession with all examples of realism, it's specifically the fact that rodrik's ENTIRE personal arc is about his injury, and if that injury is flawed, his arc is pretty flawed.
Asher's arc is about exile, and if there was a massive realism issue about the nature of exile meaning Asher wouldn't have survived his exile, then I would care.
If Asher's episode 6 character arc is all about him quickly overcoming his wound, rather than it being a barely mentioned plot point, then I would have an issue with the narrative decision.
Basically - if there is an issue with logic which affects hardly any of the plot it can be overlooked easier than an issue with logic which defines one of the main character's very existence.
Wait what? I fail to see why someone would amputate a leg because a crossbow shot... Is the flesh rotting?
I am not questioning your horse weight, because indeed they can even go up to 1200. Unfortunately the average car weighs closer to 4000. So you aren't close at all. Heavy armor could definitely allow someone to survive being crushed by a horse.
I don't think Rodrik's story arc is flawed at all. It's been the strongest story in the game in my humble opinion. You are entitled to those opinions on Asher. The fact is you are bringing this heavy handed realism to Rodrik, but not enforcing the same realism with Asher, simply because you like the character more.
I agree. Games dont have to be 100% realistic to be good. Actually that way the stories (often) get even better. If Rodriks story wasnt so sad from the beginning it wouldnt have been the same. But some people have a problem with some events that are a "little" unlikely and never get used to the events that take place after that. For exmaple I felt the same way in the tv show when Jaime fought the Sands in the last season. He cant fight that well with his left hand, but he was able to surive 2 of the Sands fighting him together.
Edit: this comment is not explicitly adressed to you, just wanted to answer to the conversation
I understand both sides, but its no use complaining about it. Either you enjoy the game the way it is or you dont, no need to discuss how realistic it is, cause that could ruin other peoples "experience" as well.
With the limited medicine they have, it's highly likely that you would lose the leg. I dunno who told you that crossbow shots are weak. You used that same BS logic in your other comment. You seem to think they are incapable of breaking human skin (since you argued that it didn't even reach the muscle).
I bother debating because this is a forum, and we are meant to discuss the game. Thats what im doing now...
Ok even if the arrow gets trough the muscle, amputate the leg would ba a bit pointless since the muscles can recover. Of curse the muscle wont be as good as before but it would still be a working muscle. Aputation is for cases of rooting flesh and they wouldn't be that stupid to let the wound rot.
Yeah, I can see your point. And it is pretty fair. Maybe Asher's story is more believable. However, lets be honest: Everyone was thinking that Rodrik would not return because of this. When Ethan died, everyone left in the gap between ep 1 to 2 thought that Asher would be the returning lord who would save everyone. That would be very cliche, really. But yeah, you made your point, it would be much more realistic if Rodrik died. The way they brought Rodrik could have been better, I admit. But it was something that nobody was expecting, and made a plot twist to a story that was getting kinda predictable. Does it justifies Rodrik surviving that amount of weight crushing him? Is it good to do lazy writing just for plot twists? No, it isnt. So we can conclude that the problem wasnt that Rodrik is back. The only problem is that they didnt explain how in the best manner. So you've got to a point where you face two options:
You can simply blame Telltale for poor writing, and criticize them. Its your right to do so and you do have a point. But remember that the entire Game of Thrones franchise does have flaws. Im not talking only about the magic and mythical beings that exists in there. Im talking about the plot-holes really. They exist. Till this day I didnt buy the "20 good men" from the tv series, and hated it. Not because the Ramsay hate. But it was also poorly made. There are plenty amount of flaws in the entire franchise. Flaws even worse than Rodrik's crushing and revival. Hell, we are talking about the game where a almost blind Griff went Wolverine all of the sudden. But the main thing here is, and now I present the 2 choice, and my personal one:Try to not thinking too much about it and appreciate the good moments. Its a game after all.
It's not Rodrik's fault that his story wasnt as believable as Asher's. So what? He is still in there and is an important part of it. Even if there are plot-holes and unbelievable things happenning, I, for one, wont keep myself from enjoying the good bits of Rodrik's storyline just because of it. If you always let the plotholes and "miracles" bother you, you wont be able to enjoy most of things. That's it, Rodrik is in there. You are free to save Asher with his sacrifice and be done with it, but still, the "recovery arc" still plays a big part in it. The same way, other players are free to prefer Rodrik's personality and enhancement over Asher's redemption's story. We are in realistic, cruel, tragical but yet magical world.
If someone survives something impossible, its up to you to decide to blame lazy writing and plot holes, the same way you can choose to believe that he shouldn't die for some other reason. Either if it would be because of some kind of magic, or because the character has some kind of favor from one of the deities that does exists in GOT's world, or maybe the horse who crushed him in the beggining wasnt a fully grown "regular" one for some unknown reason or in a way it might distributed it's weight over Rodrik, or any of the above combined... It really doesnt matter and I can't explain that.
What really matters is: Rodrik, who is a fictional character, survived somehow, and now you can choose to sacrifice him to save Asher while at the same time I can choose Asher to save him thus making him, in my storyline, the Forrester leader who became Iron from Ice. The one who surpassed the odds, made the impossible and turned into Rodrik, The Unbreakable. And just the fact alone that I cannot, right now, explain by myself how Rodrik survived the horse who crushed him and how he is now in a better condition DOES NOT necessarilly, in my opinion, ruin the entire storyline that's been developed for 4 episodes till now. Again, they could handle his recovery arc better, but hey, real life (and even GOT) is already too cruel the way it is. I am allowed to prefer believing in miracles and like his arc and not find it cheesy, while respecting your point of view. Because in the end, all of us, Rodriks and Asher's savers are in the same condition, nobody is better or worse than nobody, and we all can still be friends who will probably cry together when Telltale screws us all in the next episode or season because both characters are determinant and are possibly doomed. =3
There was a similar scene in the tv show "Vikings". Dont want to spoil too much, but someone was shot in the upper arm. He could barely move the arm and later his hand started dying and more later more of his arm (dont know if thats the right word to describe that process). In that time it was highly probable to get infection, I guess this could cause it. In the show they had to amputate the whole arm. I was shocked as well, didnt thought an arrow could cause something like that.
The average car is 1500kg - I'm talking kilograms, not pounds.
It's well written generally, but I'm saying that the basis of the 'oh no i'm hurt but i'll recover' arc is that it is actually possible to recover.
I like Rodrik more than Asher as a person. I simply like Asher's relationships more than Rodrik's.
Rodrik's injury is instrumental in his character arc. Asher's injury is not. Thus, if there is a problem with both injuries, the problem is more intense in the plots which use the injury as a source of narrative progression more - which is Rodrik's.
Lots of people were expecting him to return - it was leaked, and all other possible characters had got set personalities and we knew we'd play 5 people. He was the most popular speculated 5th protagonist :P
I get your points though - its a personal thing. I just feel a bit ehh about that one part of Rodrik's writing, and it contributed to my decision to abandon his character progression in favour of continuing Ashers
Wow, Iam astonished how much effort you put in your comment. Awesome work, theres nothing to add^^
Was the arrow stuck in the arm?
For real?? There will be a patch or something?
Yes, he kept fighting with it for the rest of the battle. They removed it after the fight.
Theres only one thing I have to say about all this...
¯_(ツ)_/¯
That's what I think too. Totally agree. I mean, if you really think too much about things like that, and if you always demands a scientifically accuracy to every game/movie/story, you wont be able to enjoy anything. For example: The Mythbusters already proved that many of the Breaking Bad experiments, like the ones that Walt created to escape from dire situations could not actually be possible. So what? Does it alone makes Breaking Bad a cheesy tv series? So why would it be any different with Rodrik's survival?
Thats y then
Yeah, that's cool. And actually I'm glad that Telltale was generous enough this time to at least let us choose who to stick to...
However, I will paste here something that I wrote in a comment above:
"if you really think too much about things like that, and if you always demands a scientifically accuracy to every game/movie/story, you wont be able to enjoy anything. For example: The Mythbusters already proved that many of the Breaking Bad experiments, like the ones that Walt created to escape from dire situations could not actually be possible. So what? Does it alone makes Breaking Bad a cheesy tv series? So why would it be any different with Rodrik's survival?"
Nothing of this is Rodrick's fault nor Asher's: Fok the Whitehills.
I think we all have a different Iron From Ice, and I doubt we will all get to a point where everyone agrees
(Nice speech btw
)
Thanks, I really appreciate it ^^ I try to be the most diplomatic as I can hahaha
I also tend to edit my comments a lot since english isnt my native language and I always find a grammar error when reading it -.-