Fantastic? Silly, forced deaths of Luke and Rebecca - fantastic. Town runs away - fantastic. Perfect baby AJ - fantastic. Kill Arvo's friends and he'll help you - fantastic. Russians are bad shooters - fantastic. Clem's healing powers - fantastic.
"I dont think you're fit to rule the house, so im gonna send tons of information to our enemies, about every little detail including your future wife. and i will do that without hoping to gain money or anything from it at all. im also going to free the only bargaining chip we have against our enemies and doom your hostage brother." Thats basically the whole traitor scenario.
I thought that by sparing the traitor and letting him tell you about the ambush that you would get a different ending where you are prepared for the ambush. But NOPE. you get the same one where Asher only notices the Whitehill soldier seconds before he shuts the gate. (Anyone notices that he uses the same model as the guy who killed Gared's family?)
Not to mention the fact that the pit fighters and everyone else goes out before Asher and Rodrik do was incredibly stupid as well as too convenient.. So in addition to having super healing powers, Gryff also seems to predict the future.
I am hoping Telltale scours these forums and read what the fans and consumers have to say about this because this is becoming ridiculous. They should really learn the error of their ways at this point. It seems the people over at Square Enix (who also make choice episodic games, particularly Life is Strange) have seemed to be doing a better job and let's not forget HEAVY RAIN! Other companies have done the choice based game before so it's not impossible to accomplish. I think Telltale is just out for a blatant cash grab and laziness.
One question I had was how did ASHER, who hasnt even been there for years, notice the Whitehill and not RODRIK, you know the one that's been dealing with them for months on end now??????
"I dont think you're fit to rule the house, so im gonna send tons of information to our enemies, about every little detail including your fu… moreture wife. and i will do that without hoping to gain money or anything from it at all. im also going to free the only bargaining chip we have against our enemies and doom your hostage brother." Thats basically the whole traitor scenario.
I thought that by sparing the traitor and letting him tell you about the ambush that you would get a different ending where you are prepared for the ambush. But NOPE. you get the same one where Asher only notices the Whitehill soldier seconds before he shuts the gate. (Anyone notices that he uses the same model as the guy who killed Gared's family?)
Not to mention the fact that the pit fighters and everyone else goes out before Asher and Rodrik do was incredibly stupid as well as too convenient.. So in addition to having super healing powers, Gryff also seems to predict the future.
Agreed. Am I the only one who feels Telltale really isn't listening to the fans?They keep on doing the same thing. This episode literally just botched the season, and it's super disappointing.:/ I really just hope Asher/Rodrick doesn't die and actually lives. But at this rate, they'll probably kill him off too just for the heck of it.
Having Duncan/Royland as the traitor is sloppy work. Their mentality is "you'll doom this house so I'll help out enemies to doom it some more to save it." There is no logic in that at all. Ultimately, having either of them as the traitor just because you did not pick them as sentinel is childish. Telltale could've went in many directions here with better reasoning but instead, they went for a cop out so I'll have to disagree with you on this particular matter.
Just because all the episodes beforehand were 2 hours does not mean they all have to be. Hell, no time left was the shortest episode of seas… moreon 1 and was the best episode of the season. More quantity does not always mean more quality. The longer length of episodes prior to this one was necessary for development of story and characters and this was the pay off. I personally liked it. It's fine if you don't, but don't bring the length into it as a measure of it's quality.
I think we can be assured that Gared and Mira's parts in episode 6 are much greater. Telltale has it's flaws but it has not yet completely ignored a crucial character in their games and I do not expect that to happen now.
As of yet we don't know the full consequence Ramsay's actions will have. Could cause Lord Glenmore to side with the Whitehills and by extension the Boltons to save their house. Just because the consequences are not there in front of you at the time doesn… [view original content]
Even if people don't understand what you're whispering they can tell that you're whispering. Whispering is associated with secrecy. You'd still get caught. They aren't very far from the guard and the place is silent.
Yeah that was bizarre. There is just too many of these little things in this episode. I get that not every episode is going to be totally amazing. But this is just too much to overlook.
One question I had was how did ASHER, who hasnt even been there for years, notice the Whitehill and not RODRIK, you know the one that's been dealing with them for months on end now??????
Yes! That is the biggest problem I had with this whole episode!
I mean Tyrion is meant to be clever and if you were trying to be loyal to him I can't believe there would be no way to let him in on what was happening or tip him off without the guard realising. I found it really frustrating being forced to either try to trick him into telling you something you could take to Cersei even if you didn't want to just because the guard would hear you if you didn't (plus it was fairly obvious Tyrion would work out exactly what you were up to pretty quickly anyway), or straight out tell Tyrion everything leaving Mira completely vulnerable because let's face it.... The guard is going to tell Cersei everything!
There really just wasn't any smart choice to make and when Mira is trying to fit in at The Red Keep I would have thought she could have come up with something better than those two options. I actually thought it was kind of pathetic because any "consequences" that occur in EP 6 as result of this conversation are just going to feel cheap in my opinion.
Tbh I wasn't really erked by the way that Finn or Sera behaved, just because you are nice to someone doesn't automatically mean that they will agree with everything you say or do, or have the guts to go along with it. I felt their dialogue did follow their characters and motivations nicely but I was really disappointed with the way Telltale ended their story arcs.
As a lot of people have said, it really just felt like befriending and bringing Finn along had no point at all. I wasn't outraged that he died just that his death really had no impact at all and nothing in the story really changed by having him come along or not. It was a wasted opportunity in my opinion.
With Sera, I thought it was completely believable that she would want to "part ways" with Mira since her whole motivation throughout the season has been to find a good husband and move up in the world. If she thought being associated with Mira might threaten her engagement it would be understandable for her character to want to distance herself. But again, I felt a little ripped off that Mira's dialogue choices gave no opportunity to tell Sera that you had kept her secret and basically endorsed her engagement, which meant there was really no reward or consequence for choosing to be loyal.
So, yeah I guess my problems with the episode were more about the playable characters lack of meaningful dialogue choices and the missed opportunities with characters who could have made such a an impact on this episode's story. But who knows maybe EP 6 will be full of surprise consequences and difficult choices.... I hope so!
Yeah I really hated how with Finn if you befriended him he appeared to be turning over, but most of what he says in this episode makes me wa… morent to slap him. And I hate how they handled Sera too, I figured at some point she would leave with her new husband, but to outright just say "Yeah, I know we've been friends for like, several years, but since there's so much gossip around you Mira, I'm out." Why wasn't there an option to pull her back by saying you're the reason she's getting married (if you picked that route of course), or to tell her to screw-off then?
I can see Duncan being the traitor if there was just one traitor a little better then what we were given, but only if they had actually given him proper reason/motive. I feel like Gared's story is going to have some payoff, or at least it better, if it's nothing more than just a literal grove I'm going to scream...
I agree it's not fair to say every aspect of the episode sucked. I actually really liked the fighting pit scene and the story behind Sylvie. If the story line and circumstances had have been thought out more and made a little more sense the choice between Asher and Rodrick would have been so much better though.
But overall, I can't deny that the lack of choice and meaningful consequences, missed opportunities, and oddly pedestrian dialogue just made my play through of EP 6 disappointing. It's such a shame because, let's face it we play TT games because they are usually kick arse, and I have truly enjoyed GoT so far. That is why this episode is a bit of a let down
The mysterious healing of Gryff's eye was bizarre, the premature death of Finn was toe-curlingl and the traitor storyline was not convincing… more. However, there were a couple of excellent moments too. I enjoyed walking around in the camp of Sylvi and loved uncovering her background story. I also quite enjoyed the scenes with the pit fighters - it really got me into it: entering the menacing place and doing the fight was great. Moreover, learning more about Beshka's background as a pit fighter was also nice. Last but not least I actually enjoyed the ending: choosing between two of the protagonists was heartbreaking. All in all, yes it would have been better to get even more background and meaningful choices, but there were plenty of nice scenes and elements.
That section of Mira's story is just B.S. The only reason it exists it's so the writers will have a reason to get rid of her if you didn't steal anything from Margery or you didn't kill Damien.
Yes! That is the biggest problem I had with this whole episode!
I mean Tyrion is meant to be clever and if you were trying to be loyal to… more him I can't believe there would be no way to let him in on what was happening or tip him off without the guard realising. I found it really frustrating being forced to either try to trick him into telling you something you could take to Cersei even if you didn't want to just because the guard would hear you if you didn't (plus it was fairly obvious Tyrion would work out exactly what you were up to pretty quickly anyway), or straight out tell Tyrion everything leaving Mira completely vulnerable because let's face it.... The guard is going to tell Cersei everything!
There really just wasn't any smart choice to make and when Mira is trying to fit in at The Red Keep I would have thought she could have come up with something better than those two options. I actually thought it was kind of pathetic because … [view original content]
My biggest complaint about the episode length is not the length itself but the quality (or lack thereof) in that episode. I wouldn't mind if the episode was 30 minutes long as long as we get great story telling and what not. The lack of time and effort put towards Mira and Gared's storyline and dialogue choices disgust me because i know TT could have done waaaay better. for them to only appear for like 10 minutes each was stupid all together and no justifiable reason for it. Plus we only get 6 episodes so its not like they can waste an episode that practically leaves out two main characters with hardly any advancement in the plot. The only thing that really advanced the plot was Asher getting rodrick his "army"
Just because all the episodes beforehand were 2 hours does not mean they all have to be. Hell, no time left was the shortest episode of seas… moreon 1 and was the best episode of the season. More quantity does not always mean more quality. The longer length of episodes prior to this one was necessary for development of story and characters and this was the pay off. I personally liked it. It's fine if you don't, but don't bring the length into it as a measure of it's quality.
I think we can be assured that Gared and Mira's parts in episode 6 are much greater. Telltale has it's flaws but it has not yet completely ignored a crucial character in their games and I do not expect that to happen now.
As of yet we don't know the full consequence Ramsay's actions will have. Could cause Lord Glenmore to side with the Whitehills and by extension the Boltons to save their house. Just because the consequences are not there in front of you at the time doesn… [view original content]
Agreed. Am I the only one who feels Telltale really isn't listening to the fans?They keep on doing the same thing. This episode literally ju… morest botched the season, and it's super disappointing.:/ I really just hope Asher/Rodrick doesn't die and actually lives. But at this rate, they'll probably kill him off too just for the heck of it.
I will agree with you on your point about Mira and Gared's storylines being a bigger focus in EP 6. I actually didn't mind not spending more time on their story arcs in this EP but what I did mind was that most of the short scenes we did get with their characters weren't nearly as good as they could have been in my opinion. In fact I probably would have preferred the episode to focus more on Rodrick, Asher and the whole traitor saga and do that really well and not have any of Mira and Gared in this episode. I guess what I'm saying is, if you are going to include something then make it matter and make it integral to the story.
Just to clarify though, I have never been one to jump on the forum and TT bash be a use I have genuinely loved the episodes and seasons I've played before this. I was just disappointed with this episode in comparison to the excellent story telling I'm used to from TT. But it's great that we have the opportunity to express our opinions on the episodes and that hopefully TT will take some of those things on board. If you enjoyed the episode than that is great too!
Just because all the episodes beforehand were 2 hours does not mean they all have to be. Hell, no time left was the shortest episode of seas… moreon 1 and was the best episode of the season. More quantity does not always mean more quality. The longer length of episodes prior to this one was necessary for development of story and characters and this was the pay off. I personally liked it. It's fine if you don't, but don't bring the length into it as a measure of it's quality.
I think we can be assured that Gared and Mira's parts in episode 6 are much greater. Telltale has it's flaws but it has not yet completely ignored a crucial character in their games and I do not expect that to happen now.
As of yet we don't know the full consequence Ramsay's actions will have. Could cause Lord Glenmore to side with the Whitehills and by extension the Boltons to save their house. Just because the consequences are not there in front of you at the time doesn… [view original content]
I really don't don't think it'd be that hard to not get caught. They were both in a cell with one entrance/exit,the guard had his back turned until he came in, Mira could have had her back facing the door, gotten Tyrion to say anything to make it seem like they were talking while she whispered the truth to him.
Even if people don't understand what you're whispering they can tell that you're whispering. Whispering is associated with secrecy. You'd still get caught. They aren't very far from the guard and the place is silent.
I really hope so too, I'm surprised by how much attention this thread got by everybody so hopefully this'll be one they look into. I thought with Tales and before this episode that they were really trying again and that they weren't going to be making the same mistakes again but alas. I really want Life is Strange to spank the TellTale model so they quit doing this kind of crap for good, cause if they mess up Tales I've lost all faith.
I am hoping Telltale scours these forums and read what the fans and consumers have to say about this because this is becoming ridiculous. Th… moreey should really learn the error of their ways at this point. It seems the people over at Square Enix (who also make choice episodic games, particularly Life is Strange) have seemed to be doing a better job and let's not forget HEAVY RAIN! Other companies have done the choice based game before so it's not impossible to accomplish. I think Telltale is just out for a blatant cash grab and laziness.
lol I actually pointed that out elsewhere cause that's the same guy who sits down and tries to block Rodrik access to the House in episode 2? I think. So the fact that only Asher raises an eyebrow at the guy is hilarious, if you're going to reuse a model, at least do your homework first.
One question I had was how did ASHER, who hasnt even been there for years, notice the Whitehill and not RODRIK, you know the one that's been dealing with them for months on end now??????
I have to admit, after I finished the episode I was quite satisfied with it. But the more I thought and read about it, the more it displeased me.
There are a few things that really bother me.
-The reveal of the traitor was BS at its finest. "Cry Cry I'm not the Sentinel so I'm trying to help this house by backstabbing it"
-"It is your fault that Arthur is dead" Ehmmm no it's not. You brought him here because you didn't want to marry one of the Whitehills, remember?.(At least at my playthrough)
-Sera doesn't want to be friends anymore because Mira is trouble? If it wasn't for her, you would have lost your betrothal, bastard.
-Asher's "army". One pit fighter is worth ten men? Yeah, I saw that........
-They know they will be ambushed at the port, yet they fail to recognize a whole Whitehill army ...... The Forresters are doomed
Turning your back to someone doesn't make you deaf. How could she have expected Tyrion to know that he should "say anything" without telling him in an audible voice? How is Tyrion supposed to listen to what she's whispering when he would supposedly be speaking loud enough to drown out her whispering and while he improvises half of a conversation? That's a really convoluted plan.
The guard doesn't have to understand what she's whispering. Whispering to Tyrion in a silent room less than 15 feet from the guard is not going to work.
I really don't don't think it'd be that hard to not get caught. They were both in a cell with one entrance/exit,the guard had his back turne… mored until he came in, Mira could have had her back facing the door, gotten Tyrion to say anything to make it seem like they were talking while she whispered the truth to him.
So you think it's near impossible for her to whisper something as simple as "Cercei sent me"? That's all it would take and Tyrion would know everything by that one phrase. I know perfectly that doesn't make them deaf but with her back turned and while whispering it's pretty hard to be heard, especially when the guard is several feet away, or 15 from what you said, with his back turned. Tyrion is a smart guy and could easily pick up on any signal given to start talking and if Mira said something as simple as what I said above, that's all he'd need to know, she doesn't have to explain everything to him, again this is Tyrion we're talking to.
Again, that's why you have Tyrion talk to cover it up and he doesn't even need to hear the words necessarily, have you ever mouthed anything to anyone? That's completely plausible too.
My hindsight is calibrated just fine, you're the one who needs to start thinking outside the box and stop thinking simple things like this are so impracticable.
Turning your back to someone doesn't make you deaf. How could she have expected Tyrion to know that he should "say anything" without telling… more him in an audible voice? How is Tyrion supposed to listen to what she's whispering when he would supposedly be speaking loud enough to drown out her whispering and while he improvises half of a conversation? That's a really convoluted plan.
The guard doesn't have to understand what she's whispering. Whispering to Tyrion in a silent room less than 15 feet from the guard is not going to work.
Your 20-20 hindsight needs to be re-calibrated.
I remember getting upset at that comment from Eleana too when she said it was our fault Arthur died. I was ready to swear her off but since it never came up again I think it was just one of those heat of the moment kind of things thankfully.
I have to admit, after I finished the episode I was quite satisfied with it. But the more I thought and read about it, the more it displease… mored me.
There are a few things that really bother me.
-The reveal of the traitor was BS at its finest. "Cry Cry I'm not the Sentinel so I'm trying to help this house by backstabbing it"
-"It is your fault that Arthur is dead" Ehmmm no it's not. You brought him here because you didn't want to marry one of the Whitehills, remember?.(At least at my playthrough)
-Sera doesn't want to be friends anymore because Mira is trouble? If it wasn't for her, you would have lost your betrothal, bastard.
-Asher's "army". One pit fighter is worth ten men? Yeah, I saw that........
-They know they will be ambushed at the port, yet they fail to recognize a whole Whitehill army ...... The Forresters are doomed
-Gryff was healed by Jesus
Well I'm still hoping (unfruitfully of course) that Rodrik will unleash his full Jesus mode (hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just what I call it) like he did back in episode 2 to live through the twins.
This ep inspired me to do a playthrough where I just let the timer expire on every decision. Get to see how absolutely nothing will be different than when I carefully considered every response.
I knew i saw him somewhere before, but i confused him with the one of the soldiers who killed Gared's family. Yeah he uses the same model as the guy on the stairs in Ironrath.
lol I actually pointed that out elsewhere cause that's the same guy who sits down and tries to block Rodrik access to the House in episode 2… more? I think. So the fact that only Asher raises an eyebrow at the guy is hilarious, if you're going to reuse a model, at least do your homework first.
Ramsay has plot armor in regards to being killed. But there is no plot armor against us just not opening the door when he knocks. But someone opened the door not just once, but twice without my leave as Lord of Ironwrath. THAT makes no sense. I don't mind Ramsay being a sadist. I mind the fact that I can't do the sensible thing and just lock him out. At this point, war with the Boltons is preferable to his visits and probably safer.
Gerard and Mira: Gerard I mind less because at least the story part is fulfilling no matter how you play it. You either seek vengeance for your family or you try to rise above your feelings when the other person just keeps attacking you. That was one place where Telltale's storytelling leading to the same place by slightly different paths worked and was enjoyable. Mira, though, there's not really any satisfaction in her story. She's already in deep trouble for trying to help her family. About the one thing I'm curious for is how she might avoid helping her family and stay on Magery's good side. What choices would force her into the scenes we saw with Tyrion if she hadn't put herself forward in the first place. And the last bit with Tyrion just appears more foolish every time I think of it. I figure it's some kind of trap on Cersei's part, but she might as well have let me try to get info out of Tyrion as a naive handmaiden rather than set me up completely.
With Finn? As a writer I would have killed him. But I would have made his death more interesting in terms of where his relationship was with Cotter and Gerard. Depends on what the rest of the plot was going to be. I'm not angry that he died, I'm just angry his death didn't have more meaning in terms of either character or plot. Though I could see keeping him alive. Depends on what the North Grove is and where the story is supposed to go from there.
As for the traitor:
1) The traitor is still mad over a choice Ethan made and isn't allowing Roderick (or before him, his mother as dowager) to rule. Heck, before Roderick showed up, Ryon under the tutelage of the Whitehills was technically in charge, which means the Whitehills were in charge. Were they really doing that great that it's worth betraying a guy who practically came back from the dead? Boy, Roderick must have really screwed up to seem better than the boot of the oppressor.
2) I would not have minded the traitor being determinant if either or both of these men had been set up with questionable loyalty.
Duncan is a pig farmer who became a lord's friend and rose to become castellan. Even without the sentinel title, he's a respected member of the inner counsel who wields immense power. And with his dying breath, Duncan is the man the last lord trusted without question, above his WIFE. Sure, he'd like the title, but he's not written as power hungry or petty. And Duncan sets Gerard on this whole North Grove quest after Duncan's brother is killed and his 8 year old niece is raped and killed by the Whitehills. There is no indication that he would EVER betray the house, certainly not to Ludd Whitehill and certainly not for something so petty as a title.
Royland was a slightly better suspect because of his aggression possibly leading him to do something rash. That said, he has not only you, but an army to care for, and setting them up to be attacked and ambushed is not only a betrayal of his lord, but a betrayal of his men, and their welfare is something he does concern himself with. He has trained them all personally. And when Roderick needs new training to be a more effective lord, it's Royland who provides the physical therapy that helps Roderick overcome his wounds and make him capable of fighting. His sudden about face is baffling.
3) When the traitor lays out his reasons, most of them are things that happened AFTER the traitor existed. The traitor listed your reaction to Gryff and the visit to the Whitehills among his reasons. BOTH of these things occurred after Gwen told you about the traitor. They therefore CAN'T be part of the reason he's betraying you otherwise he would have had to have visions of your future choices.
4) Picking a chief adviser doesn't mean that you hold their opinion in the highest regard. I'd love to be able to use some actual political examples, but I don't want to risk offending people's personal tastes, so I'll use the classic nerd fare of the original Star Trek. Spock was Kirk's chief adviser from the beginning. Over time, McCoy became an important secondary adviser so that the three of them formed an unbreakable trinity. Kirk was the ruler sitting in the middle of the two. Spock always offers the completely logical arguments. McCoy reminds Kirk of the human and emotional costs involved in the decisions. Kirk listens to both of them. Sometimes he sides with one or the other, other times he combines their advice into a plan of his own because he has to rule his people in a way that is both tactical and compassionate.
When I was asked for a decision on the sentinel matter, I didn't pick one or the other based on the idea that I would like either set of advice better. In fact, politically, it's often better to pick the one you disagree with to be your second because they will mention things that you hadn't considered and bring you a valuable different perspective that will enhance your end plans. Personally, I figured I would agree with both the patient and peaceful and aggressive and violent perspectives at different times. I picked Duncan to be sentinel because as castellan he already knows how to run the affairs of the house, and I needed the person in charge to not be the one I was going to be sending out onto the battlefield because Ethan was definitely not a soldier. My choice had absolutely nothing to do with intending to follow one set of advice over the other. I listened to both men equally, and I sided with both men on different occasions.
In the game, I'm supposed to be the lord. I'm Kirk standing between Spock and McCoy and listening to both of them before deciding what to do. And when I decide something, it has nothing to do with who I like more, but what I think will be the most effective plan. That's how having a counsel works in the first place.
My problem with the traitor is that my choices actually did have no impact. They're thrown in my face as reasons for complaint, but those reasons didn't exist until after the traitor started working against us. Which means the only choice that mattered was Ethan giving away his corsage to one girl and not the other. It's empty, petty, and betrays the rest of the characterization.
The length of the episode makes perfect sense when you consider it's story and content. It was meant to be fast and hard-hitting! A 2 hour e… morepisode wouldn't be necessary. It's kind of like no time left as it suited the nature of the episode. Same reason why we can't proceed over our people. At the end of the day, it wouldn't have suited the episode.
You do realise Gared and Mira was set up for the finale right? That makes perfect sense.
Again, with Ramsay you have to realise that it's part of the set up for the story that Telltale is trying to tell. Of course Ramsay is invulnerable, but his actions coincide with his character. His reason is he has no reason. And he's in a position of power with a smaller house. What more did you expect him to do?
I have to ask as well, but what would you have done with Finn's character?
All that being said, I take your point on Sera's role in this. I would have thought her helping or not helping yo… [view original content]
I figured GoT would be the series where Telltale could completely lose interest in and just get the series over and done with so they could work on Tales, which seems to have the most effort put in so far.
With this post you co pletely summed up how I feel about episode five. Right after I finished it I was pretty pissed. I did a secondmplaythoruhg of it later and thought maybe I was just being too hard on it but I glad to see others feel the way I do. It felt like the shortest episode out of all of them. I brought Finn along when we get attacked he dies and that's it no final words or a goodbye or touching final moment with him before he goes Gared barely even seems fazed by it for long. As someone said the traitor being whoever you didn't choose as sentinel was a weak plot device and each time wether the traitor was Duncan or Royland their excuses for me being a bad leader weren't true or justified. Mira's conversation with Tyrion seems to be a lose lose because the guard gets pissed either way and one, again as someone said Mira and Tyrion are cunning there should have been another way for them to signal to each other what was going on and it was also advertised as if Episode 5 Nest of Vipers would focus heavily on Mira which it didn't. Side note 0: if I've always looked out for Sara and been a good friend why the f**k is she now turning her back on me Telltale. The part with the pit fighters was really cool and enjoyable. the part with Ramsay again shows how little control we have as I chose on my second play through to leave them behind so why no mention of them when Ramsay is there if he killed them all at least let me know or allow us to see it. And the last thing, the final decision between Rodrik and Asher was shoehorned in very terribly. Maybe it's just a Game of Thrones thing but literally as soon as the brothers are reunited you have to kill on e off over whose going to hold a damn gate open while the other goes through. If they were going to make us choose it should have been in a more intense or dramatic situation than that it felt cheap and I love both brothers so to have to choose in that was made me more angry than sad and if I literally maimed the hell out of Gryff why does he show no scars or bruises or anything of the sort he looks perfectly fine and I know some time passed between the traitor setting him free and Asher arriving but the way I left Gryff he shouldn't be able to see out one eye. It really feels like way too much is going on for us to actually reach a true conclusion in episode 6 and while I'd love a second season I feel like they are going to end this season by killing off another character we play as in a sloppy way just to set up the next season and we will have a lot of things left unanswered.
I agree with everything you said OP. After the fantastic storytelling we got in episodes 3 and 4, this one felt like a major letdown. Telltale really should have spent another month or so polishing this one.
I agree with most of what you've said. Now here's the thing that bothered me the most: One Pit Fighter is worth ten Sellswords, which would be worth five castle guards if we were to add them to the mix. So a Pit fighter versus a castle guard would be fifteen to one odds. So the Beast, a lump of muscle and fat dies from three crossbow bolts and a spear? Bullshit writing Telltale. The Beast, with what was seen in that courtyard, would've fucking DESTROYED the Whitehills with the odds we were given.
As well, I killed off Asher (This was his episode honestly, but I still killed him no problem) He died a la Jon Snow. Could you be any lazier? He tanked the fuck out of that fight, and he dies from daggers. That's anticlimactic. We should have at least gotten to kill the big fucker who protects Gryff, then be killed by daggers, blood loss or being bolted to oblivion.
While I understand it's real life physics GoT is based in, Telltale should've let us take out the big guard (I don't know his name) Or, failing that, let us at least wound Gryff. He'd heal like his eye did despite us destroying it.
I agree.. Shouldn't The Beast have been holding off the guards? Why the hell did he run over to open the gate? We clearly see him floor multiple guards with one swing. The writing was very poor in this episode compared to last few episodes.
I agree with most of what you've said. Now here's the thing that bothered me the most: One Pit Fighter is worth ten Sellswords, which would … morebe worth five castle guards if we were to add them to the mix. So a Pit fighter versus a castle guard would be fifteen to one odds. So the Beast, a lump of muscle and fat dies from three crossbow bolts and a spear? Bullshit writing Telltale. The Beast, with what was seen in that courtyard, would've fucking DESTROYED the Whitehills with the odds we were given.
As well, I killed off Asher (This was his episode honestly, but I still killed him no problem) He died a la Jon Snow. Could you be any lazier? He tanked the fuck out of that fight, and he dies from daggers. That's anticlimactic. We should have at least gotten to kill the big fucker who protects Gryff, then be killed by daggers, blood loss or being bolted to oblivion.
While I understand it's real life physics GoT is based in, Telltale should've … [view original content]
I agree with most of what you've said. Now here's the thing that bothered me the most: One Pit Fighter is worth ten Sellswords, which would … morebe worth five castle guards if we were to add them to the mix. So a Pit fighter versus a castle guard would be fifteen to one odds. So the Beast, a lump of muscle and fat dies from three crossbow bolts and a spear? Bullshit writing Telltale. The Beast, with what was seen in that courtyard, would've fucking DESTROYED the Whitehills with the odds we were given.
As well, I killed off Asher (This was his episode honestly, but I still killed him no problem) He died a la Jon Snow. Could you be any lazier? He tanked the fuck out of that fight, and he dies from daggers. That's anticlimactic. We should have at least gotten to kill the big fucker who protects Gryff, then be killed by daggers, blood loss or being bolted to oblivion.
While I understand it's real life physics GoT is based in, Telltale should've … [view original content]
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Careful - spoilers!
Spoilers?! A year has passed!
"I dont think you're fit to rule the house, so im gonna send tons of information to our enemies, about every little detail including your future wife. and i will do that without hoping to gain money or anything from it at all. im also going to free the only bargaining chip we have against our enemies and doom your hostage brother." Thats basically the whole traitor scenario.
I thought that by sparing the traitor and letting him tell you about the ambush that you would get a different ending where you are prepared for the ambush. But NOPE. you get the same one where Asher only notices the Whitehill soldier seconds before he shuts the gate. (Anyone notices that he uses the same model as the guy who killed Gared's family?)
Not to mention the fact that the pit fighters and everyone else goes out before Asher and Rodrik do was incredibly stupid as well as too convenient.. So in addition to having super healing powers, Gryff also seems to predict the future.
I am hoping Telltale scours these forums and read what the fans and consumers have to say about this because this is becoming ridiculous. They should really learn the error of their ways at this point. It seems the people over at Square Enix (who also make choice episodic games, particularly Life is Strange) have seemed to be doing a better job and let's not forget HEAVY RAIN! Other companies have done the choice based game before so it's not impossible to accomplish. I think Telltale is just out for a blatant cash grab and laziness.
One question I had was how did ASHER, who hasnt even been there for years, notice the Whitehill and not RODRIK, you know the one that's been dealing with them for months on end now??????
Agreed. Am I the only one who feels Telltale really isn't listening to the fans?They keep on doing the same thing. This episode literally just botched the season, and it's super disappointing.:/ I really just hope Asher/Rodrick doesn't die and actually lives. But at this rate, they'll probably kill him off too just for the heck of it.
Having Duncan/Royland as the traitor is sloppy work. Their mentality is "you'll doom this house so I'll help out enemies to doom it some more to save it." There is no logic in that at all. Ultimately, having either of them as the traitor just because you did not pick them as sentinel is childish. Telltale could've went in many directions here with better reasoning but instead, they went for a cop out so I'll have to disagree with you on this particular matter.
Even if people don't understand what you're whispering they can tell that you're whispering. Whispering is associated with secrecy. You'd still get caught. They aren't very far from the guard and the place is silent.
Yeah that was bizarre. There is just too many of these little things in this episode. I get that not every episode is going to be totally amazing. But this is just too much to overlook.
Yes! That is the biggest problem I had with this whole episode!
I mean Tyrion is meant to be clever and if you were trying to be loyal to him I can't believe there would be no way to let him in on what was happening or tip him off without the guard realising. I found it really frustrating being forced to either try to trick him into telling you something you could take to Cersei even if you didn't want to just because the guard would hear you if you didn't (plus it was fairly obvious Tyrion would work out exactly what you were up to pretty quickly anyway), or straight out tell Tyrion everything leaving Mira completely vulnerable because let's face it.... The guard is going to tell Cersei everything!
There really just wasn't any smart choice to make and when Mira is trying to fit in at The Red Keep I would have thought she could have come up with something better than those two options. I actually thought it was kind of pathetic because any "consequences" that occur in EP 6 as result of this conversation are just going to feel cheap in my opinion.
Tbh I wasn't really erked by the way that Finn or Sera behaved, just because you are nice to someone doesn't automatically mean that they will agree with everything you say or do, or have the guts to go along with it. I felt their dialogue did follow their characters and motivations nicely but I was really disappointed with the way Telltale ended their story arcs.
As a lot of people have said, it really just felt like befriending and bringing Finn along had no point at all. I wasn't outraged that he died just that his death really had no impact at all and nothing in the story really changed by having him come along or not. It was a wasted opportunity in my opinion.
With Sera, I thought it was completely believable that she would want to "part ways" with Mira since her whole motivation throughout the season has been to find a good husband and move up in the world. If she thought being associated with Mira might threaten her engagement it would be understandable for her character to want to distance herself. But again, I felt a little ripped off that Mira's dialogue choices gave no opportunity to tell Sera that you had kept her secret and basically endorsed her engagement, which meant there was really no reward or consequence for choosing to be loyal.
So, yeah I guess my problems with the episode were more about the playable characters lack of meaningful dialogue choices and the missed opportunities with characters who could have made such a an impact on this episode's story. But who knows maybe EP 6 will be full of surprise consequences and difficult choices.... I hope so!
I agree it's not fair to say every aspect of the episode sucked. I actually really liked the fighting pit scene and the story behind Sylvie. If the story line and circumstances had have been thought out more and made a little more sense the choice between Asher and Rodrick would have been so much better though.
But overall, I can't deny that the lack of choice and meaningful consequences, missed opportunities, and oddly pedestrian dialogue just made my play through of EP 6 disappointing. It's such a shame because, let's face it we play TT games because they are usually kick arse, and I have truly enjoyed GoT so far. That is why this episode is a bit of a let down
That section of Mira's story is just B.S. The only reason it exists it's so the writers will have a reason to get rid of her if you didn't steal anything from Margery or you didn't kill Damien.
Yep, this was definitely the worst episode so far. Let's just hope the finale doesn't end up the same way.
My biggest complaint about the episode length is not the length itself but the quality (or lack thereof) in that episode. I wouldn't mind if the episode was 30 minutes long as long as we get great story telling and what not. The lack of time and effort put towards Mira and Gared's storyline and dialogue choices disgust me because i know TT could have done waaaay better. for them to only appear for like 10 minutes each was stupid all together and no justifiable reason for it. Plus we only get 6 episodes so its not like they can waste an episode that practically leaves out two main characters with hardly any advancement in the plot. The only thing that really advanced the plot was Asher getting rodrick his "army"
Their fates were sealed the minute you were given a choice to pick which one you wanted to keep around...
I will agree with you on your point about Mira and Gared's storylines being a bigger focus in EP 6. I actually didn't mind not spending more time on their story arcs in this EP but what I did mind was that most of the short scenes we did get with their characters weren't nearly as good as they could have been in my opinion. In fact I probably would have preferred the episode to focus more on Rodrick, Asher and the whole traitor saga and do that really well and not have any of Mira and Gared in this episode. I guess what I'm saying is, if you are going to include something then make it matter and make it integral to the story.
Just to clarify though, I have never been one to jump on the forum and TT bash be a use I have genuinely loved the episodes and seasons I've played before this. I was just disappointed with this episode in comparison to the excellent story telling I'm used to from TT. But it's great that we have the opportunity to express our opinions on the episodes and that hopefully TT will take some of those things on board. If you enjoyed the episode than that is great too!
I really don't don't think it'd be that hard to not get caught. They were both in a cell with one entrance/exit,the guard had his back turned until he came in, Mira could have had her back facing the door, gotten Tyrion to say anything to make it seem like they were talking while she whispered the truth to him.
I really hope so too, I'm surprised by how much attention this thread got by everybody so hopefully this'll be one they look into. I thought with Tales and before this episode that they were really trying again and that they weren't going to be making the same mistakes again but alas. I really want Life is Strange to spank the TellTale model so they quit doing this kind of crap for good, cause if they mess up Tales I've lost all faith.
lol I actually pointed that out elsewhere cause that's the same guy who sits down and tries to block Rodrik access to the House in episode 2? I think. So the fact that only Asher raises an eyebrow at the guy is hilarious, if you're going to reuse a model, at least do your homework first.
I have to admit, after I finished the episode I was quite satisfied with it. But the more I thought and read about it, the more it displeased me.
There are a few things that really bother me.
-The reveal of the traitor was BS at its finest. "Cry Cry I'm not the Sentinel so I'm trying to help this house by backstabbing it"
-"It is your fault that Arthur is dead" Ehmmm no it's not. You brought him here because you didn't want to marry one of the Whitehills, remember?.(At least at my playthrough)
-Sera doesn't want to be friends anymore because Mira is trouble? If it wasn't for her, you would have lost your betrothal, bastard.
-Asher's "army". One pit fighter is worth ten men? Yeah, I saw that........
-They know they will be ambushed at the port, yet they fail to recognize a whole Whitehill army ...... The Forresters are doomed
-Gryff was healed by Jesus
Turning your back to someone doesn't make you deaf. How could she have expected Tyrion to know that he should "say anything" without telling him in an audible voice? How is Tyrion supposed to listen to what she's whispering when he would supposedly be speaking loud enough to drown out her whispering and while he improvises half of a conversation? That's a really convoluted plan.
The guard doesn't have to understand what she's whispering. Whispering to Tyrion in a silent room less than 15 feet from the guard is not going to work.
Your 20-20 hindsight needs to be re-calibrated.
So you think it's near impossible for her to whisper something as simple as "Cercei sent me"? That's all it would take and Tyrion would know everything by that one phrase. I know perfectly that doesn't make them deaf but with her back turned and while whispering it's pretty hard to be heard, especially when the guard is several feet away, or 15 from what you said, with his back turned. Tyrion is a smart guy and could easily pick up on any signal given to start talking and if Mira said something as simple as what I said above, that's all he'd need to know, she doesn't have to explain everything to him, again this is Tyrion we're talking to.
Again, that's why you have Tyrion talk to cover it up and he doesn't even need to hear the words necessarily, have you ever mouthed anything to anyone? That's completely plausible too.
My hindsight is calibrated just fine, you're the one who needs to start thinking outside the box and stop thinking simple things like this are so impracticable.
I remember getting upset at that comment from Eleana too when she said it was our fault Arthur died. I was ready to swear her off but since it never came up again I think it was just one of those heat of the moment kind of things thankfully.
Well I'm still hoping (unfruitfully of course) that Rodrik will unleash his full Jesus mode (hope that doesn't offend anyone, it's just what I call it) like he did back in episode 2 to live through the twins.
This ep inspired me to do a playthrough where I just let the timer expire on every decision. Get to see how absolutely nothing will be different than when I carefully considered every response.
I knew i saw him somewhere before, but i confused him with the one of the soldiers who killed Gared's family. Yeah he uses the same model as the guy on the stairs in Ironrath.
Ramsay has plot armor in regards to being killed. But there is no plot armor against us just not opening the door when he knocks. But someone opened the door not just once, but twice without my leave as Lord of Ironwrath. THAT makes no sense. I don't mind Ramsay being a sadist. I mind the fact that I can't do the sensible thing and just lock him out. At this point, war with the Boltons is preferable to his visits and probably safer.
Gerard and Mira: Gerard I mind less because at least the story part is fulfilling no matter how you play it. You either seek vengeance for your family or you try to rise above your feelings when the other person just keeps attacking you. That was one place where Telltale's storytelling leading to the same place by slightly different paths worked and was enjoyable. Mira, though, there's not really any satisfaction in her story. She's already in deep trouble for trying to help her family. About the one thing I'm curious for is how she might avoid helping her family and stay on Magery's good side. What choices would force her into the scenes we saw with Tyrion if she hadn't put herself forward in the first place. And the last bit with Tyrion just appears more foolish every time I think of it. I figure it's some kind of trap on Cersei's part, but she might as well have let me try to get info out of Tyrion as a naive handmaiden rather than set me up completely.
With Finn? As a writer I would have killed him. But I would have made his death more interesting in terms of where his relationship was with Cotter and Gerard. Depends on what the rest of the plot was going to be. I'm not angry that he died, I'm just angry his death didn't have more meaning in terms of either character or plot. Though I could see keeping him alive. Depends on what the North Grove is and where the story is supposed to go from there.
As for the traitor:
1) The traitor is still mad over a choice Ethan made and isn't allowing Roderick (or before him, his mother as dowager) to rule. Heck, before Roderick showed up, Ryon under the tutelage of the Whitehills was technically in charge, which means the Whitehills were in charge. Were they really doing that great that it's worth betraying a guy who practically came back from the dead? Boy, Roderick must have really screwed up to seem better than the boot of the oppressor.
2) I would not have minded the traitor being determinant if either or both of these men had been set up with questionable loyalty.
Duncan is a pig farmer who became a lord's friend and rose to become castellan. Even without the sentinel title, he's a respected member of the inner counsel who wields immense power. And with his dying breath, Duncan is the man the last lord trusted without question, above his WIFE. Sure, he'd like the title, but he's not written as power hungry or petty. And Duncan sets Gerard on this whole North Grove quest after Duncan's brother is killed and his 8 year old niece is raped and killed by the Whitehills. There is no indication that he would EVER betray the house, certainly not to Ludd Whitehill and certainly not for something so petty as a title.
Royland was a slightly better suspect because of his aggression possibly leading him to do something rash. That said, he has not only you, but an army to care for, and setting them up to be attacked and ambushed is not only a betrayal of his lord, but a betrayal of his men, and their welfare is something he does concern himself with. He has trained them all personally. And when Roderick needs new training to be a more effective lord, it's Royland who provides the physical therapy that helps Roderick overcome his wounds and make him capable of fighting. His sudden about face is baffling.
3) When the traitor lays out his reasons, most of them are things that happened AFTER the traitor existed. The traitor listed your reaction to Gryff and the visit to the Whitehills among his reasons. BOTH of these things occurred after Gwen told you about the traitor. They therefore CAN'T be part of the reason he's betraying you otherwise he would have had to have visions of your future choices.
4) Picking a chief adviser doesn't mean that you hold their opinion in the highest regard. I'd love to be able to use some actual political examples, but I don't want to risk offending people's personal tastes, so I'll use the classic nerd fare of the original Star Trek. Spock was Kirk's chief adviser from the beginning. Over time, McCoy became an important secondary adviser so that the three of them formed an unbreakable trinity. Kirk was the ruler sitting in the middle of the two. Spock always offers the completely logical arguments. McCoy reminds Kirk of the human and emotional costs involved in the decisions. Kirk listens to both of them. Sometimes he sides with one or the other, other times he combines their advice into a plan of his own because he has to rule his people in a way that is both tactical and compassionate.
When I was asked for a decision on the sentinel matter, I didn't pick one or the other based on the idea that I would like either set of advice better. In fact, politically, it's often better to pick the one you disagree with to be your second because they will mention things that you hadn't considered and bring you a valuable different perspective that will enhance your end plans. Personally, I figured I would agree with both the patient and peaceful and aggressive and violent perspectives at different times. I picked Duncan to be sentinel because as castellan he already knows how to run the affairs of the house, and I needed the person in charge to not be the one I was going to be sending out onto the battlefield because Ethan was definitely not a soldier. My choice had absolutely nothing to do with intending to follow one set of advice over the other. I listened to both men equally, and I sided with both men on different occasions.
In the game, I'm supposed to be the lord. I'm Kirk standing between Spock and McCoy and listening to both of them before deciding what to do. And when I decide something, it has nothing to do with who I like more, but what I think will be the most effective plan. That's how having a counsel works in the first place.
My problem with the traitor is that my choices actually did have no impact. They're thrown in my face as reasons for complaint, but those reasons didn't exist until after the traitor started working against us. Which means the only choice that mattered was Ethan giving away his corsage to one girl and not the other. It's empty, petty, and betrays the rest of the characterization.
k
I figured GoT would be the series where Telltale could completely lose interest in and just get the series over and done with so they could work on Tales, which seems to have the most effort put in so far.
With this post you co pletely summed up how I feel about episode five. Right after I finished it I was pretty pissed. I did a secondmplaythoruhg of it later and thought maybe I was just being too hard on it but I glad to see others feel the way I do. It felt like the shortest episode out of all of them. I brought Finn along when we get attacked he dies and that's it no final words or a goodbye or touching final moment with him before he goes Gared barely even seems fazed by it for long. As someone said the traitor being whoever you didn't choose as sentinel was a weak plot device and each time wether the traitor was Duncan or Royland their excuses for me being a bad leader weren't true or justified. Mira's conversation with Tyrion seems to be a lose lose because the guard gets pissed either way and one, again as someone said Mira and Tyrion are cunning there should have been another way for them to signal to each other what was going on and it was also advertised as if Episode 5 Nest of Vipers would focus heavily on Mira which it didn't. Side note 0: if I've always looked out for Sara and been a good friend why the f**k is she now turning her back on me Telltale. The part with the pit fighters was really cool and enjoyable. the part with Ramsay again shows how little control we have as I chose on my second play through to leave them behind so why no mention of them when Ramsay is there if he killed them all at least let me know or allow us to see it. And the last thing, the final decision between Rodrik and Asher was shoehorned in very terribly. Maybe it's just a Game of Thrones thing but literally as soon as the brothers are reunited you have to kill on e off over whose going to hold a damn gate open while the other goes through. If they were going to make us choose it should have been in a more intense or dramatic situation than that it felt cheap and I love both brothers so to have to choose in that was made me more angry than sad and if I literally maimed the hell out of Gryff why does he show no scars or bruises or anything of the sort he looks perfectly fine and I know some time passed between the traitor setting him free and Asher arriving but the way I left Gryff he shouldn't be able to see out one eye. It really feels like way too much is going on for us to actually reach a true conclusion in episode 6 and while I'd love a second season I feel like they are going to end this season by killing off another character we play as in a sloppy way just to set up the next season and we will have a lot of things left unanswered.
I barely even read what you said but your user name made me laugh hysterically so you get a like
P.S. Sorry for any typos auto correct lol
Don't be surprised if Telltale doesn't care about your complaints.
They probably have already made a fortune with Game of Thrones and already have a second season planned.
Yeah I thought it would be a hilarious name myself glad someone else appreciated it thanks
I agree with everything you said OP. After the fantastic storytelling we got in episodes 3 and 4, this one felt like a major letdown. Telltale really should have spent another month or so polishing this one.
I agree with most of what you've said. Now here's the thing that bothered me the most: One Pit Fighter is worth ten Sellswords, which would be worth five castle guards if we were to add them to the mix. So a Pit fighter versus a castle guard would be fifteen to one odds. So the Beast, a lump of muscle and fat dies from three crossbow bolts and a spear? Bullshit writing Telltale. The Beast, with what was seen in that courtyard, would've fucking DESTROYED the Whitehills with the odds we were given.
As well, I killed off Asher (This was his episode honestly, but I still killed him no problem) He died a la Jon Snow. Could you be any lazier? He tanked the fuck out of that fight, and he dies from daggers. That's anticlimactic. We should have at least gotten to kill the big fucker who protects Gryff, then be killed by daggers, blood loss or being bolted to oblivion.
While I understand it's real life physics GoT is based in, Telltale should've let us take out the big guard (I don't know his name) Or, failing that, let us at least wound Gryff. He'd heal like his eye did despite us destroying it.
EDIT: Harys. That fucker's name is Harys.
I agree.. Shouldn't The Beast have been holding off the guards? Why the hell did he run over to open the gate? We clearly see him floor multiple guards with one swing. The writing was very poor in this episode compared to last few episodes.
Okaaaay
The Beast's dead, and the Whitehills are not, because the Whitehills had armor... and a big fucking spear!