Why didn't Gryff and his men....
Just take over Ironrath during the night, when they were released from prison by Duncan/Royland? I don't think Duncan/Royland would have been able to stop them and they were planning to ambush Rodrick at the hostage exchange site anyway, even if Gryff was in danger. We know that the Whitehill garrison outnumbered the Forrester's and they even would have had the advantage of surprise....Rodrick was either with Elena or sleeping when they were freed.
I also find it hard to believe they escaped without killing any guards, as twenty men is not exactly subtle and with armor that they were wearing it would be LOUD. I don't know...anyone have any ideas?
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If they killed everyone at Ironrath, it would be unlikely that they'd get to kill Asher and his army too. Clearly didn't go to plan, though.
I guess Gryff felt less douchey than usual...?
If Ironrath was taken, it would have been GAME OVER for the Forrester's, no matter how many mercs they had...Asher would have no where to go. Not to mention that most of his family would be hostages.
Would make an interesting S2 storyline, though. But since Asher is determinant, I guess that won't be happening.
Telltale right now:
The writing put House Forrester in a corner that they can only get out of if characters do stuff that doesn't make sense or through deus ex machina kind of stuff.
The situation you put forward fits the first category.
The traitor isn't a complete idiot. I'm sure he put some precautions forward to ensure that Gryff didn't just take over Ironrath. Maybe he escorted them out of the keep one by one and then shut the door when they were all out, or found some guards that agreed to go along with his scheme and escorted them out at swordpoint.
This would only make sense if Gryff was the only one released. The traitor would have had to march them from inside the keep to the gate (which would have had three to four guards, at the minimum). Then open said gate which would create a ton of noise, and then do this for 20 more times for all the Whitehill guards, all while patrols of Forrester guards are all around and should have caught them doing this.
For this scenario to go this way without anyone dying, it would have had to have all the planets align and the Stark's rise from their graves to get revenge on the Bolton's.
1: Get the gate guards and patroling Forrester milita to assist you, through threats or bribes if absolutely necessary, though I'm sure some scared peasant militaman would be happy to let Gryff escape if it would save their lives later down the line.
2: Go to the cells and tell the Whitehills you'll let them leave, but Gryff has to stay behind as a hostage to ensure the others don't revolt. Escort the probably hungry and tired Whitehill guards that aren't in any condition for a fight out 3-5 at a time
3: Once they're all outside Ironrath the traitor brings Gryff, tosses him out and then closes the gate. The Whitehills wouldn't do anything before Gryff's safety is assured, and now that the gate is closed they can't do anything in the first place.
The only real problem with this plan would be some guards not going along with it, but with the way the war is going I'm sure it wouldn't take much to convince them that the Whitehills will win and the only way to save themselves and their family is to help the traitor. And since the traitor is either the head of the guards himself, or a well respected council member I'm sure most of them would be inclined to agree and go along with them.
I was under the impression Ludd freed Gryff and his men but they weren't held at Ironrath.
True, but the smoking gun of this theory/plot hole is from the note Talia gives to Rodrick about the traitor. In it, Rodrick says that it had info about "Gryff and the Whitehill Garrison and where they are held". Why would the traitor leave this note on the VERY night he was freeing them? Unless the chance for failure was so high, he for whatever reason left this info to give to Ludd Whitehill in case he failed.
I don't think any guardsmen betrayed the Forrester's and the guards seemed genuinely surprised that Gryff and the Whitehill soldiers were missing and didn't give any info that Duncan/Royland gave them orders to free them. I honestly think they wanted us to think they sneaked past the gate like ninjas. It makes even less sense if it was Duncan, he had less pull with the guards as they didn't respect him.
All Keeps have prisons. More to the point, no one died from the Forrester side and if Ludd did attack a prison with Forrester guardsmen....you can guess what would happen.
Twenty GOOD men™
Guys, it's not a plot hole exactly, I mean, Gryff and his men could have been severely weakened or even sick from being imprisoned in some medieval cell for some time, and that's why they decided to just head home. Besides, they would not do such a thing without their lord's consent. The escape could happen at night, given that both Duncan and Royland have enough authority to distract the guards giving whitehills enough time to escape.
They wanted to give the Forrester's some chance to fight back, if they had twenty "good" men, it would have been over the second they arrived in Ironrath.
I imagine Gryff just wanted to get the fuck outta there, besides they had no weapons.
Agree about weapons. And the traitor wouldn't want it, so he was cautious freeing them.
Disagree about ''their lord's consent'' thing. I imagine Gryff is that kind of guy that will try some initiative like that to impress( as he might think it would impress his father ) Ludd.
An even better question is: Why didnt they capture Asher/Rodrik to have 2 Forresters as hostages. House Forrester would be doomed.
I kind of agree with Charles_Phipps. I was thinking they could have moved them from Ironrath. Ramsay knows Gryff was taken prisoner but he does not know where he is. The traitor could have freed them on his own or with Ramsay's help if they were somewhere else close by. If I remember correctly Rodrik says the traitors letter has the location of Gryff and his men. The cellar is the first place I would have looked if I was Ramsay and Talia told me Gryff had been taken prisoner so I think there is a good possibility they were moved from Ironrath so if Ludd tried to free him it would not work.
I assumed that they got out the way the Glenmores came in. Also, the traitor left a note in the grove, so someone had to be coming into Ironrath to grab their notes, maybe they snuck out the way that person comes in? I think they refrained from taking Ironrath just because they were unarmed and probably weak from their imprisonment.