I'd agree with you if varys was shown in the game this far. I think Morgryn is the only Littlefingeresque guy in KL so far. Hopefully Episode 6 comes soon enough
I admit that I thought of that too, more for a lack of options in Kingslanding (if you only consider characters that appeared on the game) than for any other reason.
However, I am more inclined to think Morgryn is the person that sent Damien to kill Mira, and not Tom's employer. If that's the case, it doesn't mean he necessarily still want her dead. He might have changed his mind when she showed up alive, which lead him to try to secure an alliance with her.
Another possibility involving him is that Andros was the one to send Damien. If it was Andros, then Morgryn probably knew about it since they still worked together. If that was the case, one could theorize that Morgryn sent Tom to try to save Mira from Damien, but sending a kid against a fully armored guard is a bit foolish and it doesn't sound like something Morgryn would do, IMO.
I just hope Morgryn is not Mira's "late-game confrontation". You know, the character that throws all/most of your decisions in your face while throwing a hissy fit about how you are such a bad person. Happened on both TWD seasons and the traitor did this to Rodrik on Episode 5 too.
Heh. If there is one person I love to theorize about in this game, that's Morgryn. It's his Littlefinger vibe, you know? It makes him an interesting character to theorize about.
I know it's probably not going to be him, just like I know we won't get the trial because no Charles Dance nor Pedro Pascal. However that kind of little worker is his trademark
I'd agree with you if varys was shown in the game this far. I think Morgryn is the only Littlefingeresque guy in KL so far. Hopefully Episode 6 comes soon enough
I have a theory but its probably wrong. Since the Glenmores might have some of Forresters land through marriage, its possible the Glenmores sent someone in Kinglanding to help Mira. I thought that person might be Morgryn. If Mira and Morgryn helped control prices of Ironwood, the Forresters and Glenmores would be very rich.
A guard saw Mira outside Tyrion's office after Joffrey's murder, so maybe Cersei assumed she entered it. Or Cersei just assumed Mira had been there because she thinks Mira was close to Tyrion.
Or Morgryn could have put 2 and 2 together and gotten to the conclusion that since you told him Tyrion said the decree was in his office and you were not locked up, you entered there and stole it. And then he told it to Cersei. You can tell what you did to Morgryn, but he seems to be a smart guy that wouldn't have trouble deducing it by himself.
A guard saw Mira outside Tyrion's office after Joffrey's murder, so maybe Cersei assumed she entered it. Or Cersei just assumed Mira had bee… moren there because she thinks Mira was close to Tyrion.
Or Morgryn could have put 2 and 2 together and gotten to the conclusion that since you told him Tyrion said the decree was in his office and you were not locked up, you entered there and stole it. And then he told it to Cersei. You can tell what you did to Morgryn, but he seems to be a smart guy that wouldn't have trouble deducing it by himself.
Vary's little birds have their tongues cut out so they can't divulge any information to anyone besides Vary's.
Unless Telltale ignores that Tom can't be a little bird as his tongue is still very much attached.
I really dont care that much for Tom's boss, It would be ok if Tom just loves Mira and thats all :P He spys better then Obama, and is my Last friend in kingslanding
Vary's little birds have their tongues cut out so they can't divulge any information to anyone besides Vary's.
Unless Telltale ignores that Tom can't be a little bird as his tongue is still very much attached.
That isn't evidence. Supposition at best. Given this is a conversation that Arya is overhearing, the ellipses represent bits of the dialogue that she can't hear, so you don't have the full context. You could interpret it literally, but it's more plausible to assume 'kept their tongues' is just a synonym for 'to hold their tongues' as in 'to be able to keep secrets effectively and not speak out of turn'. Logically, how would cutting their tongues out even help?
A conversation in the first book. When Arya overhears Vary's and Illyrio.
I must have gold, and another fifty birds.
So many? The ones… more you need are hard to find... so young, to know their letters... perhaps older... not die so easy...
No. The younger are safer... treat them gently... ...if they kept their tongues... ...the risk...
As someone else mentioned this line isn't in the show so it's possible it's only canon for the books.
Yes. Yes. I know what ellipses mean. But it makes plenty of sense to remove their tongues. They can't divulge information. Teach them to communicate in a code only Vary's knows and captured Little Bird can't implicate Vary's in anything.
And not to mention Martin has apparently flat out said they lose their tongues at a convention. I can't find the quote itself but multiple sources claim he has.
That isn't evidence. Supposition at best. Given this is a conversation that Arya is overhearing, the ellipses represent bits of the dialogue… more that she can't hear, so you don't have the full context. You could interpret it literally, but it's more plausible to assume 'kept their tongues' is just a synonym for 'to hold their tongues' as in 'to be able to keep secrets effectively and not speak out of turn'. Logically, how would cutting their tongues out even help?
Martin has apparently flat out said they lose their tongues at a convention.
You probably should have said that in the first place, then. That was the correct answer to 'Where did you get that from?'
It still doesn't actually make sense, though. If they know how to read and write, then they obviously don't need a tongue to divulge secrets. Not to mention, if Cersei, for instance, caught a little kid spying on her, all she'd need to do is check if he had a tongue or not to know if he belonged to Varys. Stupid way for Varys to incriminate himself, really. And I'm surprised that Varys would so easily condone the mutilation of children, given what happened to him as a child.
Yes. Yes. I know what ellipses mean. But it makes plenty of sense to remove their tongues. They can't divulge information. Teach them to com… moremunicate in a code only Vary's knows and captured Little Bird can't implicate Vary's in anything.
And not to mention Martin has apparently flat out said they lose their tongues at a convention. I can't find the quote itself but multiple sources claim he has.
Edit: Found it.
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2013/05/27-conquest-44-report-grrm/
"Varys' little birds do have their tongues cut out. They are "provided to him" that way."
Well I didn't know Martin had confirmed that fact until after I posted that. I also fail to see how it doesn't make sense.
1: Who say's they know how to write in the common tongue? As I said, they could be taught to write in a code only Varys' understands. Or at the very least a language from Essos nobody in Kings Landing will know how to read. If they're tortured they physically can't divulge information.
2: Cersei doesn't have access to knowledge the reader does. She doesn't know he mutilates his spies so they can't share information. All she would know is it's a random kid without a tongue spying on her. And Cersei being Cersei she'd blame Tyrion.
3: Who said Vary's is telling the truth about his past? He's not exactly the most trustworthy individual.
Martin has apparently flat out said they lose their tongues at a convention.
You probably should have said that in the first place, … morethen. That was the correct answer to 'Where did you get that from?'
It still doesn't actually make sense, though. If they know how to read and write, then they obviously don't need a tongue to divulge secrets. Not to mention, if Cersei, for instance, caught a little kid spying on her, all she'd need to do is check if he had a tongue or not to know if he belonged to Varys. Stupid way for Varys to incriminate himself, really. And I'm surprised that Varys would so easily condone the mutilation of children, given what happened to him as a child.
If they know how to read the common tongue, then they'd know how to write it, too. It sort of goes hand-in-hand. And they know how to read the common tongue, because that's the point. They're 'taught to read the letters and leave them where they were', rather than steal them. And if they couldn't comprehend what it was they were reading, then they wouldn't be able to translate it into another language/code.
Cersei was just an example. It could apply to anyone. Varys would have to take into account the possibility that 'someone' would work out that all of his spies had their tongues cut out and what the ramifications to that were, given it associates him to them.
Well I didn't know Martin had confirmed that fact until after I posted that. I also fail to see how it doesn't make sense.
1: Who say's t… morehey know how to write in the common tongue? As I said, they could be taught to write in a code only Varys' understands. Or at the very least a language from Essos nobody in Kings Landing will know how to read. If they're tortured they physically can't divulge information.
2: Cersei doesn't have access to knowledge the reader does. She doesn't know he mutilates his spies so they can't share information. All she would know is it's a random kid without a tongue spying on her. And Cersei being Cersei she'd blame Tyrion.
3: Who said Vary's is telling the truth about his past? He's not exactly the most trustworthy individual.
Or, maybe Tom is Margaery's pet... for helping Mira since she can't do it openly?
I don't know, there are many options. Tom's mission is to keep her safe and alive. Who benefits of this mostly?
Or, maybe Tom is Margaery's pet... for helping Mira since she can't do it openly?
I don't know, there are many options. Tom's mission is to keep her safe and alive. Who benefits of this mostly?
Varys's little birds write in a secret code that only Varys understands. Ilyrio, (the man mentioned Varys is talking to in RandomGentleman's quote from AGOT) and Varys are on the same side, and have been for a while. He is the only confirmed person, to my knowledge, to know that Varys's little birds have their tongues cut out.
The little birds are most likely not in contact with anyone other than Varys, who writes to them in the secret code as well. Varys is always one step ahead of everyone as well. Assuming that someone did find out about his little birds, he could probably kill them before they did any real damage. He's bold enough to do it, considering what he did at the end of ADwD epilogue. (I won't spoil it.)
Varys knows what he's doing. Who knows if Varys is really a eunuch? Most likely, but we haven't had actual confirmation. Hope this clears everything up. (:
If they know how to read the common tongue, then they'd know how to write it, too. It sort of goes hand-in-hand. And they know how to read t… morehe common tongue, because that's the point. They're 'taught to read the letters and leave them where they were', rather than steal them. And if they couldn't comprehend what it was they were reading, then they wouldn't be able to translate it into another language/code.
Cersei was just an example. It could apply to anyone. Varys would have to take into account the possibility that 'someone' would work out that all of his spies had their tongues cut out and what the ramifications to that were, given it associates him to them.
What, so you don't think he's a eunuch?
It doesn't and I have read the books. I know who Illyrio Mopatis is.
My point is, if they can read and understand the Common Tongue, which they can because that's part of their job, then they can also write in it. And if they know how to write in it, then if captured they can be forced to write in it under duress. Therefore they can reveal information about Varys, whether they have their tongues or not. Meaning cutting out their tongues hasn't really prevented anything. It doesn't matter what sort of code they may use with Varys, because it doesn't make sense for them to only be able to write in that code exclusively. If they know the Common Tongue and are being tortured there's nothing to stop them from writing down whatever they need to, in the Common Tongue. Geez. It's not hard.
Varys's little birds write in a secret code that only Varys understands. Ilyrio, (the man mentioned Varys is talking to in RandomGentleman's… more quote from AGOT) and Varys are on the same side, and have been for a while. He is the only confirmed person, to my knowledge, to know that Varys's little birds have their tongues cut out.
The little birds are most likely not in contact with anyone other than Varys, who writes to them in the secret code as well. Varys is always one step ahead of everyone as well. Assuming that someone did find out about his little birds, he could probably kill them before they did any real damage. He's bold enough to do it, considering what he did at the end of ADwD epilogue. (I won't spoil it.)
Varys knows what he's doing. Who knows if Varys is really a eunuch? Most likely, but we haven't had actual confirmation. Hope this clears everything up. (:
They don't know how to read and write in the common tongue, I don't know why you keep getting the assumption in your head that they do. They only write in the code Varys gave them. It isn't a "part of their job" to do it in the common tongue. In medieval times not everyone knew how to read and write anyways. Speaking something is different from reading it. All they need to do is LISTEN and repeat what they heard in their own code with Varys via raven for the most part. It's like if someone spoke English, but they instead of writing it with the normal alphabet, they switch around letters. Like to them, the letter 'b' may make an 'ah' sound and thus be their version of the letter 'a' and so on and so forth. Please don't act like an ass with that attitude especially when you're one of the only people, to my knowledge, who can't seem to understand it. Geez. It's not hard.
It doesn't and I have read the books. I know who Illyrio Mopatis is.
My point is, if they can read and understand the Common Tongue, whic… moreh they can because that's part of their job, then they can also write in it. And if they know how to write in it, then if captured they can be forced to write in it under duress. Therefore they can reveal information about Varys, whether they have their tongues or not. Meaning cutting out their tongues hasn't really prevented anything. It doesn't matter what sort of code they may use with Varys, because it doesn't make sense for them to only be able to write in that code exclusively. If they know the Common Tongue and are being tortured there's nothing to stop them from writing down whatever they need to, in the Common Tongue. Geez. It's not hard.
Comments
Of course theres a chance you're wrong but theres also a chance you're right, at this point I can't guess who his boss is.
There was a deleted dialogue file in episode 4 that reveals who he works for, so it depends on if the writers have changed that or not.
See below.
Lady Olenna Tyrell.
Varys makes the most sense in my opinion.
I'd agree with you if varys was shown in the game this far. I think Morgryn is the only Littlefingeresque guy in KL so far. Hopefully Episode 6 comes soon enough
That's interesting. Why do you think that?
I admit that I thought of that too, more for a lack of options in Kingslanding (if you only consider characters that appeared on the game) than for any other reason.
However, I am more inclined to think Morgryn is the person that sent Damien to kill Mira, and not Tom's employer. If that's the case, it doesn't mean he necessarily still want her dead. He might have changed his mind when she showed up alive, which lead him to try to secure an alliance with her.
Another possibility involving him is that Andros was the one to send Damien. If it was Andros, then Morgryn probably knew about it since they still worked together. If that was the case, one could theorize that Morgryn sent Tom to try to save Mira from Damien, but sending a kid against a fully armored guard is a bit foolish and it doesn't sound like something Morgryn would do, IMO.
I just hope Morgryn is not Mira's "late-game confrontation". You know, the character that throws all/most of your decisions in your face while throwing a hissy fit about how you are such a bad person. Happened on both TWD seasons and the traitor did this to Rodrik on Episode 5 too.
Heh. If there is one person I love to theorize about in this game, that's Morgryn. It's his Littlefinger vibe, you know? It makes him an interesting character to theorize about.
I know it's probably not going to be him, just like I know we won't get the trial because no Charles Dance nor Pedro Pascal. However that kind of little worker is his trademark
I have a theory but its probably wrong. Since the Glenmores might have some of Forresters land through marriage, its possible the Glenmores sent someone in Kinglanding to help Mira. I thought that person might be Morgryn. If Mira and Morgryn helped control prices of Ironwood, the Forresters and Glenmores would be very rich.
I have a theory that Tom could be working for the septa but I could be wrong only time will tell.
EIther Varys or Lady Olenna.
Tom's boss is Vary's and Will help Mira escape on the boat with Tyrion I think.
I think Tom is a loyal boy , he is good. He is helping us but he isn't showing in Ep5
Cersei's knew that Mira had been snooping around in Tyrion's chambers. Who else knew that except Tom?
A guard saw Mira outside Tyrion's office after Joffrey's murder, so maybe Cersei assumed she entered it. Or Cersei just assumed Mira had been there because she thinks Mira was close to Tyrion.
Or Morgryn could have put 2 and 2 together and gotten to the conclusion that since you told him Tyrion said the decree was in his office and you were not locked up, you entered there and stole it. And then he told it to Cersei. You can tell what you did to Morgryn, but he seems to be a smart guy that wouldn't have trouble deducing it by himself.
Plus you have the option to straight up tell Morgryn that you snuck in and (determinately) burnt the decree.
Vary's little birds have their tongues cut out so they can't divulge any information to anyone besides Vary's.
Unless Telltale ignores that Tom can't be a little bird as his tongue is still very much attached.
I don't think that's ever been confirmed in the show universe though.
I agree
I really dont care that much for Tom's boss, It would be ok if Tom just loves Mira and thats all :P He spys better then Obama, and is my Last friend in kingslanding
Yeah, and that prompts the notice "Lord Morgryn will remember that".
Which septa?
Where did you get that from?
From the books.
A conversation in the first book. When Arya overhears Vary's and Illyrio.
I must have gold, and another fifty birds.
So many? The ones you need are hard to find... so young, to know their letters... perhaps older... not die so easy...
No. The younger are safer... treat them gently... ...if they kept their tongues... ...the risk...
As someone else mentioned this line isn't in the show so it's possible it's only canon for the books.
That isn't evidence. Supposition at best. Given this is a conversation that Arya is overhearing, the ellipses represent bits of the dialogue that she can't hear, so you don't have the full context. You could interpret it literally, but it's more plausible to assume 'kept their tongues' is just a synonym for 'to hold their tongues' as in 'to be able to keep secrets effectively and not speak out of turn'. Logically, how would cutting their tongues out even help?
By septa I basically meant the Faith of the Seven. He could be a spy for the High Septon but that is a long shot, just a theory.
Yes. Yes. I know what ellipses mean. But it makes plenty of sense to remove their tongues. They can't divulge information. Teach them to communicate in a code only Vary's knows and captured Little Bird can't implicate Vary's in anything.
And not to mention Martin has apparently flat out said they lose their tongues at a convention. I can't find the quote itself but multiple sources claim he has.
Edit: Found it.
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2013/05/27-conquest-44-report-grrm/
"Varys' little birds do have their tongues cut out. They are "provided to him" that way."
You probably should have said that in the first place, then. That was the correct answer to 'Where did you get that from?'
It still doesn't actually make sense, though. If they know how to read and write, then they obviously don't need a tongue to divulge secrets. Not to mention, if Cersei, for instance, caught a little kid spying on her, all she'd need to do is check if he had a tongue or not to know if he belonged to Varys. Stupid way for Varys to incriminate himself, really. And I'm surprised that Varys would so easily condone the mutilation of children, given what happened to him as a child.
Well I didn't know Martin had confirmed that fact until after I posted that. I also fail to see how it doesn't make sense.
1: Who say's they know how to write in the common tongue? As I said, they could be taught to write in a code only Varys' understands. Or at the very least a language from Essos nobody in Kings Landing will know how to read. If they're tortured they physically can't divulge information.
2: Cersei doesn't have access to knowledge the reader does. She doesn't know he mutilates his spies so they can't share information. All she would know is it's a random kid without a tongue spying on her. And Cersei being Cersei she'd blame Tyrion.
3: Who said Vary's is telling the truth about his past? He's not exactly the most trustworthy individual.
If they know how to read the common tongue, then they'd know how to write it, too. It sort of goes hand-in-hand. And they know how to read the common tongue, because that's the point. They're 'taught to read the letters and leave them where they were', rather than steal them. And if they couldn't comprehend what it was they were reading, then they wouldn't be able to translate it into another language/code.
Cersei was just an example. It could apply to anyone. Varys would have to take into account the possibility that 'someone' would work out that all of his spies had their tongues cut out and what the ramifications to that were, given it associates him to them.
What, so you don't think he's a eunuch?
Or, maybe Tom is Margaery's pet... for helping Mira since she can't do it openly?
I don't know, there are many options. Tom's mission is to keep her safe and alive. Who benefits of this mostly?
Maybe he's working for Mira's father to keep her safe or Gwyn Whitehill since she want's to help the Forresters. Just saying.
Maybe he's working for Mira's father to keep her safe or Gwyn Whitehill since she want's to help the Forresters. Just saying.
Varys's little birds write in a secret code that only Varys understands. Ilyrio, (the man mentioned Varys is talking to in RandomGentleman's quote from AGOT) and Varys are on the same side, and have been for a while. He is the only confirmed person, to my knowledge, to know that Varys's little birds have their tongues cut out.
The little birds are most likely not in contact with anyone other than Varys, who writes to them in the secret code as well. Varys is always one step ahead of everyone as well. Assuming that someone did find out about his little birds, he could probably kill them before they did any real damage. He's bold enough to do it, considering what he did at the end of ADwD epilogue. (I won't spoil it.)
Varys knows what he's doing. Who knows if Varys is really a eunuch? Most likely, but we haven't had actual confirmation. Hope this clears everything up. (:
It doesn't and I have read the books. I know who Illyrio Mopatis is.
My point is, if they can read and understand the Common Tongue, which they can because that's part of their job, then they can also write in it. And if they know how to write in it, then if captured they can be forced to write in it under duress. Therefore they can reveal information about Varys, whether they have their tongues or not. Meaning cutting out their tongues hasn't really prevented anything. It doesn't matter what sort of code they may use with Varys, because it doesn't make sense for them to only be able to write in that code exclusively. If they know the Common Tongue and are being tortured there's nothing to stop them from writing down whatever they need to, in the Common Tongue. Geez. It's not hard.
Maybe it's Littlefinger.
They don't know how to read and write in the common tongue, I don't know why you keep getting the assumption in your head that they do. They only write in the code Varys gave them. It isn't a "part of their job" to do it in the common tongue. In medieval times not everyone knew how to read and write anyways. Speaking something is different from reading it. All they need to do is LISTEN and repeat what they heard in their own code with Varys via raven for the most part. It's like if someone spoke English, but they instead of writing it with the normal alphabet, they switch around letters. Like to them, the letter 'b' may make an 'ah' sound and thus be their version of the letter 'a' and so on and so forth. Please don't act like an ass with that attitude especially when you're one of the only people, to my knowledge, who can't seem to understand it. Geez. It's not hard.
Varys has a spy network of children around King's Landing which he refers to as his "little birds".