Its the fact its all based around ethans decision, which was a different character 4 episodes ago. It removes two of the more important ironrath characters for a nonsensical betrayal
GRRM had once said that when he first created GOT he used to go one forums and read some of the fan theories and a couple of people got it right on the money and he was thinking about changing the whole story because of it but then later realized it would be stupid for him to do that cause he had a plan and he was gonna stick to it and because of that he stopped looking at fan theories all together...TTG should make a plan and stick to it despite if us fans predict the story outcome..idk about TWAU comics but it it doesn't seem like they creat a long season plan and that they keep changing their story after episodes to fit the fans choices or go against fan theories for shock value
and from TWAU there are reasons to think players being able to share theories between episodes might not be that good after all (smart playe… morers found out too much and suddenly the next episode was so obviously different from anything in the preview that it was obvious Telltale had to drastically change the plot in a rush).
I don't understand where this theory came from. That's not why they had to rewrite the story. The story they had planned out messed with the canon in the comics too much.
So I beat the shit out of Gryff in Ep. 4 and yet, he shows up at the end of Ep. 5 without even a scratch on his face. Is it supposed to be like that or I'm having some weird bug here?
Its the fact its all based around ethans decision, which was a different character 4 episodes ago. It removes two of the more important ironrath characters for a nonsensical betrayal
Right? If was the Maester, and Ortengryn was actually the son of Ludd Whitehill, and he is struggling with his maester oath (serve a noble house) and helping his family it would be a amazing plot twist. And makes more sense, to me at least.
This is classic Telltale with their writing going to sh*t. Just WTF. This could have handle better but....just FACEPALM.
But I hope that even if you spare the Royland or Duncan, they might be useful in episode 6 in their war against the Whitehills. If u think about it.
This is classic Telltale with their writing going to sh*t. Just WTF. This could have handle better but....just FACEPALM.
But I hope that… more even if you spare the Royland or Duncan, they might be useful in episode 6 in their war against the Whitehills. If u think about it.
our definition of the word great differ greatly then. The Ending was shocking but for me it sucked from the moment the choice between Asher and Rodrik came up.I agree with the rest of you post the plot of mira became sorta pointless and gareds story barely progressed. In short the Episode didn´t do much for aside from leaving me with a bunch of determinant characters who will probably all die in episode six. I reallywish TTG would do something other with those characters then killing them of.
I want to be honest here okay? I feel that they rushed the whole episode.Seriously i mean Mira's part in this one looks like its getting co… morempletely pointless (in my opinion),Gared's story didint much went on, we STILL dont know what North Grove is, some parts of Rodrik's story were great and some of them made no sense (according to everyone else),the whole traitor thing was pathetic, i mean why could they just put the Maester it looks very promising for that role right?And even if we beat the fuck out of Gryff in episode 4 ,in the end he's completely fine, but out of all that AT LEAST it had a great ending.
The Forresters would have known that. It wouldn't be a hidden identity. They grew up with the Whitehills as neighbors. They know what they look like.
My thoughts were that, aside from ambition, which Ortengryn definitely has, that perhaps he was a friend or lover of the Whitehill brother who became a maester.
I'm okay with being wrong in my guesses on the traitor. I don't like being wrong because the plot says so but the characterization doesn't. Nor does the timeline, for that matter.
Right? If was the Maester, and Ortengryn was actually the son of Ludd Whitehill, and he is struggling with his maester oath (serve a noble house) and helping his family it would be a amazing plot twist. And makes more sense, to me at least.
The only good argument you gave is the one about Gryff and his eye.
Duncan and Royland dont have real motives? Troughout the whole game you have opportunities to show who you preffer and it makes sense the other one would be the traitor. Unless you play dumb and pick one as sentinel but you choose what the other one wants- dont be suprised if you get dumb outcome- "The story is tailored by how you play" remember? Enjoy playing the game and you get enjoyable experiences... If you hate the game and dont care about the choices you make then dont be suprised you get outcomes that dont make sense.
Dunc and Roy have actually understandable reasons (doesnt excuse the fact that they are Traitors but it makes you think) and there is something to what they say. Btw G.R.R.M."s assistant and HBO work with Telltale so its not laziness. It cant be, otherwise this episode wouldnt get the high ratings it got and rightfully deserves.
This is the telltale's STUPIDEST desision. This episode was the concentration of telltale's laziness. Neither Duncan, nor Royland have real … moremotives to betray Rodrik. It was such a disappointment, which shows that Telltale don't give a damn about people who buy it's games. Not mentioning stupid final scene and the fact that Griff was miracly healed!
Duncan's reasoning made sense to me, since I played Rodrik aggressively. It really did seem like he supplied info to keep the Whitehills from totally slaughtering us, which they could have easily done several times.
What I don't understand is that we never got to choose a new sentinel after Rodrik became lord. The Maester told Ethan that EVERY NEW LORD chooses his own sentinel, yet we never do as Rodrik. Just another TT plot hole.
Well, that would be B.S. on Telltale's part but I could see that happening since Talia believes traitors should die, she is just waiting to just kill somebody, she is on her way becoming Arya Stark. But I hope that doesn't happened for sparing the traitor and all.
Because as Duncan said, Ludd was planning on ambushing the forresters during the trade. With Gryff freed, there would be no reason to go to house forrester. People forget that Duncan's call for diplomacy is also his weakness. Has been since episode 1 where even when he knew that diplomacy didn't make things better.
Well the maester did get beaten the crap out of by Gryff in episode 4. Maybe he is still recovering. Also, I do not find that as being out of character for Duncan. His strong need for diplomacy has always been his weakness and his naivety.
My problem is Duncan was the traitor (Cause I picked Royland cause I thought I could manage his not getting chosen anger I guess at the time… more) BUT, I picked all the PEACEFUL approaches and he still says nonsense about the way I did things as violence(Which I did not do anything he claims I am pretty sure) I may sound negative I guess but Im just confused if this is intended based solely on you choose from Ethan's part and not how you played Rodrick aggressively or not as much? Also where did the maester go? I don't recall seeing him that whole episode.
So I beat the shit out of Gryff in Ep. 4 and yet, he shows up at the end of Ep. 5 without even a scratch on his face. Is it supposed to be like that or I'm having some weird bug here?
Has anyone considered that it doesn't make sense because we don't know everything? The look your sentinel gives you right before the gate comes down at the end of the episode was suspicious af.
While I thought the traitor reveal ( I choose Duncan and was with Royland in most of my choices as Rodrik) was fine and made sense, they could have( and still could in the finale) go deeper with the motivations. Perhaps, and hopefully, they will in the finale.
Thread: The traitors reasoning made absalustly no sense whatsoever....
So whoever is your traitor says they did it since Rodrik and Eth… morean were such bad lords. Ok fine. But how dose letting Ludd (a guy who openly admits his goals and aims are to see every last Forrester dead) know all of the Forresters plans help anyone?? I mean what was the traitors end goal? That if he helps Ludd kill everyone this will somehow save the Forresters??
Except that a trade of brothers IS a diplomatic solution to some of our problems. With Gryff free and the Whitehills just pissed at the Forresters, Duncan is effectively narrowing the only choices down to war. So this really doesn't make sense. Better to let info slip about the ambush and renegotiate the meeting.
Because as Duncan said, Ludd was planning on ambushing the forresters during the trade. With Gryff freed, there would be no reason to go to… more house forrester. People forget that Duncan's call for diplomacy is also his weakness. Has been since episode 1 where even when he knew that diplomacy didn't make things better.
Because as Duncan said, Ludd was planning on ambushing the forresters during the trade. With Gryff freed, there would be no reason to go to… more house forrester. People forget that Duncan's call for diplomacy is also his weakness. Has been since episode 1 where even when he knew that diplomacy didn't make things better.
Not sure why people are surprised either way, it's not impossible to see how Duncan or Ser Royland would betray the house because they weren't given what they wanted, we don't really know much about their past or truly how loyal they were to House Forrester, as Daenerys said "Words are wind."
Thats bullshit. Ludd wouldnt dare ambush anything when they had his son hostage. It was the only leverage they had and he ruined it.
And it was a way to free Ryon.
Ludd wouldn't dare ambush anything when they had his son hostage
According to the traitor he would, or as long as they still had his son. Once they got him back, they likely would have attacked afterwards.
Not true, we know that Duncan is good friend of Gregor Forrester (not to mention he raised him from a pig farmer to castellan), we also know Royland's family was killed by ironborn and he was taken in by the Forresters and made master at arms. So no it doesn't make sense for either of those two to be the traitor with the reasons that they state. It would be understandable if when confronted they say it was completely down to jealousy, but they clearly think they are helping the family whilst acting directly against it (freeing gryff and informing on ryon rescue plan)
Not sure why people are surprised either way, it's not impossible to see how Duncan or Ser Royland would betray the house because they weren… more't given what they wanted, we don't really know much about their past or truly how loyal they were to House Forrester, as Daenerys said "Words are wind."
I don't understand that when you approach whichever traitor it is, Duncan or Royland, and they tell you the white hills plan to ambush Asher, how in the fuck do you just ride up to Asher with NO security or even a care in the world that there's going to be an ambush, it is extremely SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY writing done by a high school student , and not at all done by an educated person, or writer for that matter, WTF is telltale putting out here. There are tremendous plot holes. Seriously hang your heads in SHAME.
We don't actually know that, we're only assuming it from evidence we've collected, but that doesn't mean he's instantly loyal to anyone who rules his house. Thinking they were helping their house by doing whatever Lord Whitehill says isn't exactly uncommon in the Fantasy genre either, there are logical and illogical reasons for them to betray their house in order to help it.
Not true, we know that Duncan is good friend of Gregor Forrester (not to mention he raised him from a pig farmer to castellan), we also know… more Royland's family was killed by ironborn and he was taken in by the Forresters and made master at arms. So no it doesn't make sense for either of those two to be the traitor with the reasons that they state. It would be understandable if when confronted they say it was completely down to jealousy, but they clearly think they are helping the family whilst acting directly against it (freeing gryff and informing on ryon rescue plan)
Rodrik is in armor. Right after meeting each other, he quickly advises they leave and says that Whitehill soldiers are on their way (I think he says they're on their way? But he definitely mentions them anyway). And I believe there are a few soldiers present with Rodrik? (Might be more, but due to budget/engine constraints . . .)
Regardless, it's not as bad as you claim. What it looks like is they didn't expect the Whitehill soldiers to already be there or, if they did check, they didn't find any. They may not have been there for long either, leaving no time to scout.
In fact, Rodrik's reaction is pretty natural:
"Hey, Rodrik! You look much better than the last time we saw each other, what with your burns and everything!"
"Good to meet you brother, but can we please get out of here and talk later?"
That's how Rodrik acted, much like many others would. Though sure, question how they managed to let themselves get ambushed/taken by surprise.
I don't understand that when you approach whichever traitor it is, Duncan or Royland, and they tell you the white hills plan to ambush Asher… more, how in the fuck do you just ride up to Asher with NO security or even a care in the world that there's going to be an ambush, it is extremely SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY writing done by a high school student , and not at all done by an educated person, or writer for that matter, WTF is telltale putting out here. There are tremendous plot holes. Seriously hang your heads in SHAME.
No no no. It should've been Roderick and his crew knowing that there is an ambush waiting and trying to spring the trap, so to speak. There should have been an entire scene dedicated to him trying to sniff out the trap, as would any competent lord would do, you don't just walk into a trap knowing there's an ambush without a plan right? Where was the plan? Hope for the best? This is telltale cutting corners to get to their ending, and it's just really bad writing
Rodrik is in armor. Right after meeting each other, he quickly advises they leave and says that Whitehill soldiers are on their way (I think… more he says they're on their way? But he definitely mentions them anyway). And I believe there are a few soldiers present with Rodrik? (Might be more, but due to budget/engine constraints . . .)
Regardless, it's not as bad as you claim. What it looks like is they didn't expect the Whitehill soldiers to already be there or, if they did check, they didn't find any. They may not have been there for long either, leaving no time to scout.
In fact, Rodrik's reaction is pretty natural:
"Hey, Rodrik! You look much better than the last time we saw each other, what with your burns and everything!"
"Good to meet you brother, but can we please get out of here and talk later?"
That's how Rodrik acted, much like many others would. Though sure, question how they managed to let themselves get ambushed/taken by surprise.
Why do I bother . . . ? So many times these days I find myself just deleting my posts rather than posting them.
Just as an aside though, Boagrius, showing things from Rodrik's point of view before the ambush might have been ideal. But sometimes scenes are cut. There are whole battles skipped out on in the books, I believe, and it would be for various reasons. Generally, when some scenes are cut in stories, you kind of have to read between the lines and think things through, you know, rather than having everything explained. Regardless, if the scene was shown, I think you would find it plays out much like one of the examples I mentioned. And yes, there is the possibility it is 'bad writing', but it's just that everyone is so quick to jump to that conclusion. Myself, I'm more willing to give Telltale the benefit of the doubt. Also, one thing to consider as I just put the scene on again, it's hard to tell whether the people milling around are with the Forresters or not (I cut it when Asher and Rodrik meet, so didn't see the ambush again). In any case, it's completely possible they simply didn't have the men to try and spring the trap as you suggested.
I don't want to cause a debate here either, but it's like the traitor situation in episode 1. People automatically assumed 'bad writing' for Ramsay's men to come inside. The answer was the traitor, however. It's just that the answers weren't present then.
Edit: Sorry if I'm snippy here as well, but I'm just very tired. I'm just at the point where I feel like not posting anymore. And I'm not meaning here, I'm meaning in general, no matter the website/forum.
No no no. It should've been Roderick and his crew knowing that there is an ambush waiting and trying to spring the trap, so to speak. There … moreshould have been an entire scene dedicated to him trying to sniff out the trap, as would any competent lord would do, you don't just walk into a trap knowing there's an ambush without a plan right? Where was the plan? Hope for the best? This is telltale cutting corners to get to their ending, and it's just really bad writing
I know what you mean, and I'm not saying your wrong, yes, there are things you need to read between the lines with, is this one of them? Perhaps. Yes, some scenes and plots are cut due to time constraints or necessary to the main story. Maybe they did scout and plan, that's up to your own interpretation. For me, and many others, it feels like the whole scene was rushed even after knowing the ambush plan, you know what I mean?. But I do see your point on the natural reactions to a situation like that, maybe they scouted and was all clear you know, and they had their family moment. Reading between the lines is up to the viewer, and in this case telltale is telling a story based on books that people may or may not have read, and they shouldn't assume people would know that there are scenes or battles not mentioned, which leaves some people asking questions as to what happened. and yes the answers are not present yet, maybe there's an explanation.
Why do I bother . . . ? So many times these days I find myself just deleting my posts rather than posting them.
Just as an aside though, … moreBoagrius, showing things from Rodrik's point of view before the ambush might have been ideal. But sometimes scenes are cut. There are whole battles skipped out on in the books, I believe, and it would be for various reasons. Generally, when some scenes are cut in stories, you kind of have to read between the lines and think things through, you know, rather than having everything explained. Regardless, if the scene was shown, I think you would find it plays out much like one of the examples I mentioned. And yes, there is the possibility it is 'bad writing', but it's just that everyone is so quick to jump to that conclusion. Myself, I'm more willing to give Telltale the benefit of the doubt. Also, one thing to consider as I just put the scene on again, it's hard to tell whether the people milling around are… [view original content]
Comments
That's gold vocabulary right there ! Make sure to write it down
Its the fact its all based around ethans decision, which was a different character 4 episodes ago. It removes two of the more important ironrath characters for a nonsensical betrayal
GRRM had once said that when he first created GOT he used to go one forums and read some of the fan theories and a couple of people got it right on the money and he was thinking about changing the whole story because of it but then later realized it would be stupid for him to do that cause he had a plan and he was gonna stick to it and because of that he stopped looking at fan theories all together...TTG should make a plan and stick to it despite if us fans predict the story outcome..idk about TWAU comics but it it doesn't seem like they creat a long season plan and that they keep changing their story after episodes to fit the fans choices or go against fan theories for shock value
So I beat the shit out of Gryff in Ep. 4 and yet, he shows up at the end of Ep. 5 without even a scratch on his face. Is it supposed to be like that or I'm having some weird bug here?
That would be the dumbest plot twist in the history of TTG even dumber than the current plot twist and would make me abandon ship
This is classic Telltale with their writing going to sh*t. Just WTF. This could have handle better but....just FACEPALM.
But I hope that even if you spare the Royland or Duncan, they might be useful in episode 6 in their war against the Whitehills. If u think about it.
Episode 6 beginning, Rodrick/Asher rushes back to Ironrath to find the traitor killed by Talia and Elissa.
"Oh, nvm then"
our definition of the word great differ greatly then. The Ending was shocking but for me it sucked from the moment the choice between Asher and Rodrik came up.I agree with the rest of you post the plot of mira became sorta pointless and gareds story barely progressed. In short the Episode didn´t do much for aside from leaving me with a bunch of determinant characters who will probably all die in episode six. I reallywish TTG would do something other with those characters then killing them of.
The Forresters would have known that. It wouldn't be a hidden identity. They grew up with the Whitehills as neighbors. They know what they look like.
My thoughts were that, aside from ambition, which Ortengryn definitely has, that perhaps he was a friend or lover of the Whitehill brother who became a maester.
I'm okay with being wrong in my guesses on the traitor. I don't like being wrong because the plot says so but the characterization doesn't. Nor does the timeline, for that matter.
The only good argument you gave is the one about Gryff and his eye.
Duncan and Royland dont have real motives? Troughout the whole game you have opportunities to show who you preffer and it makes sense the other one would be the traitor. Unless you play dumb and pick one as sentinel but you choose what the other one wants- dont be suprised if you get dumb outcome- "The story is tailored by how you play" remember? Enjoy playing the game and you get enjoyable experiences... If you hate the game and dont care about the choices you make then dont be suprised you get outcomes that dont make sense.
Dunc and Roy have actually understandable reasons (doesnt excuse the fact that they are Traitors but it makes you think) and there is something to what they say. Btw G.R.R.M."s assistant and HBO work with Telltale so its not laziness. It cant be, otherwise this episode wouldnt get the high ratings it got and rightfully deserves.
Try to stop me.
oh yeh I bet i can
That still doesnt justify why the fuck he freed Gryff.
He's talking about violence? He's the reason that slaughter happened at the end of the episode.
hmm, fair enough. W/e though. I enjoyed the story. plot holes don't bother me if i don't notice them
Well, that would be B.S. on Telltale's part but I could see that happening since Talia believes traitors should die, she is just waiting to just kill somebody, she is on her way becoming Arya Stark. But I hope that doesn't happened for sparing the traitor and all.
This is some lazy shit.
Because as Duncan said, Ludd was planning on ambushing the forresters during the trade. With Gryff freed, there would be no reason to go to house forrester. People forget that Duncan's call for diplomacy is also his weakness. Has been since episode 1 where even when he knew that diplomacy didn't make things better.
Well the maester did get beaten the crap out of by Gryff in episode 4. Maybe he is still recovering. Also, I do not find that as being out of character for Duncan. His strong need for diplomacy has always been his weakness and his naivety.
Its a glitch from what I have heard.
Its not better.
Exactly. Maybe they will dive more into the traitors motives in the finale.
While I thought the traitor reveal ( I choose Duncan and was with Royland in most of my choices as Rodrik) was fine and made sense, they could have( and still could in the finale) go deeper with the motivations. Perhaps, and hopefully, they will in the finale.
Except that a trade of brothers IS a diplomatic solution to some of our problems. With Gryff free and the Whitehills just pissed at the Forresters, Duncan is effectively narrowing the only choices down to war. So this really doesn't make sense. Better to let info slip about the ambush and renegotiate the meeting.
Thats bullshit. Ludd wouldnt dare ambush anything when they had his son hostage. It was the only leverage they had and he ruined it.
And it was a way to free Ryon.
Not sure why people are surprised either way, it's not impossible to see how Duncan or Ser Royland would betray the house because they weren't given what they wanted, we don't really know much about their past or truly how loyal they were to House Forrester, as Daenerys said "Words are wind."
damn, 125 likes...
It's an awesome pictoral breakdown of exactly why the turn traitor is so completely out of character for either man. What's not to like.
According to the traitor he would, or as long as they still had his son. Once they got him back, they likely would have attacked afterwards.
Uh.. And your point is?
I never said its a bad thing
Not true, we know that Duncan is good friend of Gregor Forrester (not to mention he raised him from a pig farmer to castellan), we also know Royland's family was killed by ironborn and he was taken in by the Forresters and made master at arms. So no it doesn't make sense for either of those two to be the traitor with the reasons that they state. It would be understandable if when confronted they say it was completely down to jealousy, but they clearly think they are helping the family whilst acting directly against it (freeing gryff and informing on ryon rescue plan)
I heard that it is not a glitch....
I don't understand that when you approach whichever traitor it is, Duncan or Royland, and they tell you the white hills plan to ambush Asher, how in the fuck do you just ride up to Asher with NO security or even a care in the world that there's going to be an ambush, it is extremely SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY writing done by a high school student , and not at all done by an educated person, or writer for that matter, WTF is telltale putting out here. There are tremendous plot holes. Seriously hang your heads in SHAME.
We don't actually know that, we're only assuming it from evidence we've collected, but that doesn't mean he's instantly loyal to anyone who rules his house. Thinking they were helping their house by doing whatever Lord Whitehill says isn't exactly uncommon in the Fantasy genre either, there are logical and illogical reasons for them to betray their house in order to help it.
Rodrik is in armor. Right after meeting each other, he quickly advises they leave and says that Whitehill soldiers are on their way (I think he says they're on their way? But he definitely mentions them anyway). And I believe there are a few soldiers present with Rodrik? (Might be more, but due to budget/engine constraints . . .)
Regardless, it's not as bad as you claim. What it looks like is they didn't expect the Whitehill soldiers to already be there or, if they did check, they didn't find any. They may not have been there for long either, leaving no time to scout.
In fact, Rodrik's reaction is pretty natural:
"Hey, Rodrik! You look much better than the last time we saw each other, what with your burns and everything!"
"Good to meet you brother, but can we please get out of here and talk later?"
That's how Rodrik acted, much like many others would. Though sure, question how they managed to let themselves get ambushed/taken by surprise.
No no no. It should've been Roderick and his crew knowing that there is an ambush waiting and trying to spring the trap, so to speak. There should have been an entire scene dedicated to him trying to sniff out the trap, as would any competent lord would do, you don't just walk into a trap knowing there's an ambush without a plan right? Where was the plan? Hope for the best? This is telltale cutting corners to get to their ending, and it's just really bad writing
Why do I bother . . . ? So many times these days I find myself just deleting my posts rather than posting them.
Just as an aside though, Boagrius, showing things from Rodrik's point of view before the ambush might have been ideal. But sometimes scenes are cut. There are whole battles skipped out on in the books, I believe, and it would be for various reasons. Generally, when some scenes are cut in stories, you kind of have to read between the lines and think things through, you know, rather than having everything explained. Regardless, if the scene was shown, I think you would find it plays out much like one of the examples I mentioned. And yes, there is the possibility it is 'bad writing', but it's just that everyone is so quick to jump to that conclusion. Myself, I'm more willing to give Telltale the benefit of the doubt. Also, one thing to consider as I just put the scene on again, it's hard to tell whether the people milling around are with the Forresters or not (I cut it when Asher and Rodrik meet, so didn't see the ambush again). In any case, it's completely possible they simply didn't have the men to try and spring the trap as you suggested.
I don't want to cause a debate here either, but it's like the traitor situation in episode 1. People automatically assumed 'bad writing' for Ramsay's men to come inside. The answer was the traitor, however. It's just that the answers weren't present then.
Edit: Sorry if I'm snippy here as well, but I'm just very tired. I'm just at the point where I feel like not posting anymore. And I'm not meaning here, I'm meaning in general, no matter the website/forum.
I know what you mean, and I'm not saying your wrong, yes, there are things you need to read between the lines with, is this one of them? Perhaps. Yes, some scenes and plots are cut due to time constraints or necessary to the main story. Maybe they did scout and plan, that's up to your own interpretation. For me, and many others, it feels like the whole scene was rushed even after knowing the ambush plan, you know what I mean?. But I do see your point on the natural reactions to a situation like that, maybe they scouted and was all clear you know, and they had their family moment. Reading between the lines is up to the viewer, and in this case telltale is telling a story based on books that people may or may not have read, and they shouldn't assume people would know that there are scenes or battles not mentioned, which leaves some people asking questions as to what happened. and yes the answers are not present yet, maybe there's an explanation.