Mira's loyalty to Margaery
Ok so when we first started out, we were the timid little Mira who was completely oblivious to the politics at King's Landing and we overly relied on Margaery for help (though she barely did anything)
Now, Mira's so much bolder and willing to risk anything to help her family survive and Margaery is just an annoying character, who although cares about Mira, cannot achieve anything for her or help her in any way.
When Mira approaches the high officials for help, Margaery gets unreasonable and starts being a liability as she prevents any form of help that Mira can get. Mira has achieved so much without Margaery, in fact, by talking to Lord Morgry, arguing with Lord Andros, dealing with Tyrion and Cersei and so on. Mira has become indepent and is able to fight her battles.
This no doubt earns Mira the displeasure of Margaery.
In Episode 5, Mira has shown to not care about Margaery's feelings through one of the dialogue options.
Do you think Mira should be an independent hero for her family or stay in line as a handmaiden and obey Margaery? Whom does your Mira prioritise? Margaery or her family?
Also, do you feel that Margaery's character is being more of a liability now that every breath of Mira seems to infuriate her?
Comments
Ignoring game mechanics for a moment, I think, as with most things, you have to find a balance.
Margaery, who is about to become queen, is one of the most powerful allies you could possibly have in King's Landing - especially now that Joffrey is dead and Tommen is both smitten with her and much more pliable.
Of course, she can't be expected to do things for you that puts her own plans or position at risk, so when Margaery can't or won't help you out, you go it alone and do what you can to help your family. It isn't as though you are selfishly trying to curry favor for them or they are just being ambitious climbers - your family is facing a potent and immediate threat that puts them in grave danger. Of course you do what you can to help them, even behind Margaery's back. They're your family and they come before anything and anyone else.
But overstep your bounds too far or too many times, and you face the very real risk that Margaery will send you packing back to Ironrath, where you are of no help to anyone. In King's Landing you can play the game, make allies and undermine enemies. At home, well, you can't fight, you can't help at all. So your best chance of helping your family is staying in Margaery's favor enough to stay in King's Landing where you can do the most good - either with her help or behind her back, but not so much she gives you the boot.
Balance.
In-game however, she gets supremely pissed at you no matter how hard you try to stay on her good side, so fuck that noise and do anything and everything you can, handmaiden's loyalty be damned.
Betraying Margaery is not a wise move , she already expects a betrayal from Mira , also her Grandmother has a spy called Tom following us everywhere
Cersei is a not reliable ally , not to mention that the Lannisters are in debt and got weakened a lot after the war
What should Mira do ? Escape King's landing before it's too late
I always like to remember what Morgryn says on the Royal Wedding.
"I remember what it was like to be new to this game. You feel like you are drowning, don't you? Like there is no one you can really trust. What you need, more than anything, is an ally."
My Mira prioritizes her family. However, she is not going anywhere by herself, and certainly angering the young queen can't be good. She needs an ally even to be able to survive in King's Landing. Tom had been her most valuable ally so far, the one that actually helped her survive even if that meant putting himself at great risk (while other friendly npcs, like Sera and Morgryn, ran away at the first sight of trouble. Morgryn did that quite literally), but we must keep in mind that he has a boss, and we don't know who that boss is, what they want or if they could change their mind and discard Mira. In the past, I would have counted Sera as an ally too, since she was the person that allowed Mira to disrupt Andros's plan by getting her in the coronation feast, which might just have saved her family. But well, she doesn't want to be friends anymore :T
With Sera distancing herself, Margaery angry, Tyrion locked up and Cersei about to be disappointed with the information we got, Mira is in deep trouble. I do feel like being Margaery's handmaiden is a liability, NOT Margaery herself. If Mira was able to leave her services but still remain in King's Landing, I doubt Margaery would have any problem with what Mira does at all, since it wouldn't reflect on her. I understand Margaery's position, especially taking into consideration that Cersei already dislikes her.
What makes you think Tom is working for Oleanna?
Personally I think he's with Brienne. The figure that Mira saw in the garden that night she was attacked by Lucan certainly looked like Brienne from afar. And Brienne is the type to truly want to help Mira.
Why would Brienne help Mira ?
Cause she's nice? I dunno actually. I was just positive that was her in the garden that night (seriously, it looks just like her) so I assumed she had sent Tom to help Mira out. I fully acknowledge that motive is not something I have bothered with in this theory of mine.
Again, why do you think it's Olenna? I'm not challenging you, I'm curious as I haven't heard that one before. Most people seem to think he's one of Varys' little birds.
As much as I love Brienne, she is not the type to have spies and she isn't supposed to be in King's Landing by that time. If she was there, she would have jumped in the fight, separated them and demanded to know why Damien was attacking Mira.
About Olenna, there is an unused line where Tom says she is his boss, but it wasn't put in the game so it is not guaranteed that this won't change. I for one would prefer if his boss was someone that already showed up in the game. Olenna is awesome and she is the kind of grandma that would put a spy after each and every person that is close to her grandchildren, just in case, but she was merely mentioned.
Brienne is in King's Landing - she and Jamie got there a few weeks before the Margaery and Joffrey wedding.
I always saw Tom as less of someone spying on Mira and more someone able to get close enough to her to help her on the behalf of the person who sent him - like the old lady Brienne had tell Sansa to light a candle in the window of the broken tower if she needed help.
Oleanna doesn't make that much sense to me, but, fair enough.
Oh of course. Book and series discrepancies. Sorry, I forgot, I don't watch the series I just read the books and they do not arrive until after the wedding in the books. I don't know what happened between Brienne and Sansa because they don't even meet in the books so I can't speak for that.
Tom is someone that is working for a person that, right now, wants to keep Mira alive. My problem with this is that we don't know who this person is and why they would want to keep Mira alive. We don't know if there is something Mira can do that will make this person decide that Mira should be discarded. If this person really turns out to be Olenna, I imagine then she wanted Mira to trust Tom so that she could spy on Mira and make sure she doesn't offer any risk to Margaery. The fact that Mira is falling out of Margaery's favor puts her in an even deeper hole if Tom is working for Olenna, because then Olenna might decide to kill Mira to protect Margaery's reputation (as Margaery says that everything Mira does, as her handmaiden, reflects on her).
I think she needs to care about both because Margaery is her ticket to King's Landing.
Like Abeille mentioned , there's an unused audio file where Tom tells Mira about his boss
Ohhhh my bad. Uh, very very mild show spoilers then!
I can see where the Olenna argument makes sense, but I always got the impression that whoever sent Tom is more interested in helping Mira and her family than keeping an eye on her and what she's doing. Though I can't really think of anyone in King's Landing who would take a personal interest in Mira or the Forresters solely to help her/them. (again, my Brienne theory was based on that one scene and the fact she does something similar for Sansa in the show - but she has a very vested interest in protecting Sansa as she swore to Catelyn to keep her daughters safe).
I agree with you though, I'd prefer Tom's boss to be someone we've already seen in the game.
Well that's a pretty good reason for going with that theory, sure. Can't argue with that logic.
I was thinking Tom's boss would be Verys or little finger. Verys like to see and know everything but not to be seen. I think little finger as he too likes to know all, he was behind the poisoning of Joffrey on the wedding day. He did that because he knew no one would suspect him. Just my thought
I think it will end up being one of them
I don't like this. When there is some mysterious person that hides their identity until the very end, I expect this person to be someone our characters met. I will be pissed if the Stranger in Tales from the Borderlands is someone that we never met, for example.
Idk if it's the same in the books, but this is about the same time that Littlefinger is away from kings landing, but still close enough to plan with Lady Olenna to kill Joffrey. Though it would suck to see LF come so late in the series (maybe he was too busy with Maze Runner)
I hoped that Margery would actually play a role in Mira's story after episode 5, but she really has little use during Tyrions trial. And although she does marry Tommen and become Queen, this is a short period before the sparrows take control of kings landing.
They did create a new Lannister, maybe he has a bigger role next season. Maybe Tom works for someone connected to the high sparrows.
I've been playing my Mira as completely loyal to Margaery, doing everything she asks of me. I cared enough about her feelings that I didn't even ask her to speak to Joffery, even though my family needed me. I also made sure to NOT speak to Tyrion when he tried to talk at the party thing. I'm sad that Margaery is angry with you even if you follow her orders to a T and don't ask anything of her.
I just want to be her friend again lol.
Margaery annoys me.
I've followed all of her orders, pledged allegiance to her in front of Cersei, I didn't ask for her help with Joff although I needed it, never stole from her, I didn't even talk to Tyrion because I didn't want her to be angry and Mira was already on thin ice with Margaery anyway. Yet despite all of this, she's still angry with Mira and wants to replace her.
I'm so tempted to just go off by myself and forget all about Margaery, but that's a pretty stupid idea. In King's Landing, the new queen would be an important and useful ally, especially now when Cersei is bound to be displeased with Mira after what went down in the dungeons. Not quite sure how she'd be able to get on Margaery's good side again, though.
However, if given a choice between Marg and my family, I would choose family, hands down. And if Margaery doesn't prove to be useful later, we might have to seek out... alternative methods.
My Mira prioritises her family, of course, but so much relies on her (ultimately frustratingly useless) relationship with Margaery that I'm so annoyed we can't just cut her loose. She's one of the best allies we can have in King's Landing, in theory, even though it seems like no matter what you do she's angry with us and completely fails to either help us herself or gets directly in the way of any help for our family we stand to get. There came a point for me (right around when she basically told us to tell Cersei what she wanted to hear no matter our real feelings and then gave us the death glare from hell when we said we'd be loyal to Joffrey) when I said to hell with her. I wasn't going to tell her eff you to her face but obviously she was going to be of no use to us.
But I have to add too, the best thing Mira can do now is go home, even with things at Ironrath as dicey as they are. She stands a much better chance of staying alive there, as sad as that is...
Mira's loyalty to Margaery feels more like a liability, especially given how quick Marge is to anger and how irrational she can be.