Oh you're ignorant. Hes just saying that they could try out a normal development period for a game. I am all for "EPISODES". But they don't have to come out 3 months apart. They can make all 5 and release it at once. What's the difference between buying it after it's all been released and just releasing it all at once? Nothing. They could develop a game silently and not have the community ripping them a new asshole everyday.
Don't play them then. Simple. And no most people are not tired of it.
Old AF. First-person shooter are old AF. Windows 7 is old AF. And does that keep people from using/playing them? No.
Anyway, gr8 b8 m8. Just let this post sinks.
The way to release them quicker is not making them shorter or worse quality. They should just develop games a little more silently. Like say while GoT and Tftb is going on they are also working on a different game that is 5 episodes but they finish like 3 episodes before releasing the premiere. That way they'd be so much farther ahead then normal and it would work better for the quality of episodes 4 and 5 because they would have around 5 months to work on them. (might solve the penultimate curse)
I agree that the wait might make fans give up. I remember when I was playing TWD S2 I would pretty much forget about the game until I saw St… moreeam updating it because there was a new episode (because I wasn't nearly as engaged with the story as I am with GoT). But to release the episodes quicker, they would have to make them shorter, or of worse quality. Or they would have to finish the whole season and then release it in an episodic manner, but then they wouldn't be able to change and adapt based on feedback.
I see where you're coming from, but to be honest I'm so used to the episodic system by now, it would kind of ruin the Telltale feeling to just play a full game without the cliffhangers and all. Sure, waiting sucks, but it leaves time for discussion, theories and overall getting excited to see what happens next.
Though I do agree with the fact the episodes are too far apart. A month or so would be better than three, but oh well, what can we do about it.
Well I can see everyone is jumping down your throat, but how about we actually have a serious discussion about this?
To be honest, I love TTG, but the episodic style is getting old. Here's how I see it.
Pros:
The devs responds to feedback
Pacing allows for the writers and such to add new things and reveals
Pacing helps with the story and ensures people don't blow through there content twice a year.
We stay engaged with the game and company throughout the year
This builds the community up.
We get to see how more of our decisions line up at the end of each episode
Cons:
Endless waiting
Playing through the game, either if you waited until all the episodes come out or are just trying the game with different decisions, is very tedious. The trailers for the next episode and "previously on" moments are practically vital for playing as each episode comes out but are annoying otherwise, creating an imbalanced experience for players
It's an outdated model. "Episodes" is a TV concept being used for the digital age and feels like a step back for video games. It doesn't compare well to say, the way that Netflix deals with this kind of stuff
Feedback can be good, but I often worry that Telltale hears from the loudest and most repetitive of fans. Sometimes the nosiest opinions don't represent what everyone wants or how they feel.
People can lose interest and forget about these things over time
Though I've defended them on this before, TTG is pretty bad at communication, exasperating problem number 5. Frustrated fans will always lead to less fans, and my guess is that having so much ongoing stuff makes it hard for the company to establish firm release dates. Thus leading to silly moments where they announce an episode the day before release. And while it's great they are getting stuff out to us ASAP, I can't see how last minute announcements help the company
I feel that 5-6 "due dates" are far worse than 1... Yes, stuff can be delayed and all that, but TTG must set goals for themselves and whether or not they meet them very likely influences the quality of various episodes across the games.
No need to force cliffhangers and such
Neutral:
1. Focus is hard to gauge. On the one hand, one big game lets TTG put all their effort into making one, cohesive, polished experience. But letting them divvy it up into episodes ensures that each episode.
So you see what I mean? There is some merit for the episodes idea being at the very least tinkered with. Why not improve, if possible? There are ways to address many of the cons without abandoning the idea entirely. For example, I like TfBorderlands' episode recaps, as they aren't just clips. So playing through the game the 2nd time or all at once won't feel as stale. But certainly the OP has a point...
Are you saying playing the game is tedious? Playing again is tedious but let's be serious, things could be added differently rather than getting rid of the episodic way...Like a skip button like in LiS.
Yes, several "fans" of Telltale complain a lot on here, like threads like this for example. Telltale doesn't listen to a lot of this feedback, well they do, but they don't change because of it.
People can lose interest and that happens with almost anything.
Fair point, communication is key.
That's the thing though, allowing this episodic format to happen gives time for any plot changes to occur. There have been far many more delays from one release date than most, if not all, telltale games. The episodic format, despite the long waits, allows telltale to release when they're ready (Or forced). Goals are good but deadlines cause rushed games.
The way the OP expressed their point was extremely flawed. Could things be fixed? Of course. Should we eliminate the entire format for a few debatable reasons? No.
Well I can see everyone is jumping down your throat, but how about we actually have a serious discussion about this?
To be honest, I love… more TTG, but the episodic style is getting old. Here's how I see it.
Pros:
* The devs responds to feedback
* Pacing allows for the writers and such to add new things and reveals
* Pacing helps with the story and ensures people don't blow through there content twice a year.
* We stay engaged with the game and company throughout the year
* This builds the community up.
* We get to see how more of our decisions line up at the end of each episode
Cons:
* Endless waiting
* Playing through the game, either if you waited until all the episodes come out or are just trying the game with different decisions, is very tedious. The trailers for the next episode and "previously on" moments are practically vital for playing as each episode comes out but are annoying otherwise, creatin… [view original content]
I'm saying that playing the game under certain conditions (like with all episodes released) CAN be tedious. Like you said (and I said) this can be fixed without doing away with episodes entirely.
And goals can still influence gameplay, which is my concern. It's good they have the judgement to push stuff back when needed, but I still think they can rush the devs at times.
But yeah, my point was just that OP had some merit to what he was saying, even if they did so in a completely illiterate fashion.
I want to address a few of your cons.
* Are you saying playing the game is tedious? Playing again is tedious but let's be serious, thin… moregs could be added differently rather than getting rid of the episodic way...Like a skip button like in LiS.
* Yes, several "fans" of Telltale complain a lot on here, like threads like this for example. Telltale doesn't listen to a lot of this feedback, well they do, but they don't change because of it.
* People can lose interest and that happens with almost anything.
* Fair point, communication is key.
* That's the thing though, allowing this episodic format to happen gives time for any plot changes to occur. There have been far many more delays from one release date than most, if not all, telltale games. The episodic format, despite the long waits, allows telltale to release when they're ready (Or forced). Goals are good but deadlines cause rushed games.
The way the OP expressed their p… [view original content]
Everyone who complains on this website has merit, Telltale isn't perfect and they could improve but what some of us don't understand is that the episodic format isn't the problem.
I'm saying that playing the game under certain conditions (like with all episodes released) CAN be tedious. Like you said (and I said) this… more can be fixed without doing away with episodes entirely.
And goals can still influence gameplay, which is my concern. It's good they have the judgement to push stuff back when needed, but I still think they can rush the devs at times.
But yeah, my point was just that OP had some merit to what he was saying, even if they did so in a completely illiterate fashion.
Well I can see everyone is jumping down your throat, but how about we actually have a serious discussion about this?
To be honest, I love… more TTG, but the episodic style is getting old. Here's how I see it.
Pros:
* The devs responds to feedback
* Pacing allows for the writers and such to add new things and reveals
* Pacing helps with the story and ensures people don't blow through there content twice a year.
* We stay engaged with the game and company throughout the year
* This builds the community up.
* We get to see how more of our decisions line up at the end of each episode
Cons:
* Endless waiting
* Playing through the game, either if you waited until all the episodes come out or are just trying the game with different decisions, is very tedious. The trailers for the next episode and "previously on" moments are practically vital for playing as each episode comes out but are annoying otherwise, creatin… [view original content]
The solution isn't to end episodic games but it's to create better games/better stories that fit into the episodic model.
Game of Thrones is a perfect example. Not only is it an abomination story wise but it doesn't really fit with the episodic model at all. There needs to be twists and turns multiple divergent story-lines, dialogue heavy, etc you can't do GOT properly with 1-2 months development time between episodes.
Tales of the Borderlands is the exact opposite. Goofy, linear, plenty of action it's almost a glove fit for the episodic format. Which in large part why the two games are viewed much differently by reviewers.
The solution isn't to end episodic games but it's to create better games/better stories that fit into the episodic model.
Game of Thrones… more is a perfect example. Not only is it an abomination story wise but it doesn't really fit with the episodic model at all. There needs to be twists and turns multiple divergent story-lines, dialogue heavy, etc you can't do GOT properly with 1-2 months development time between episodes.
Tales of the Borderlands is the exact opposite. Goofy, linear, plenty of action it's almost a glove fit for the episodic format. Which in large part why the two games are viewed much differently by reviewers.
It's not the episodic structure that's the problem, it's the amount of time between. If it was a month or less, then there definitely wouldn… more't be a problem. More than two months and they run the risk of people either getting annoyed at the wait or, if they haven't felt fully engaged and committed to the story yet, being bored enough to drop it and not bother to play the rest.
Having it in episodes just keeps discussion about the game going and creates much more hype for the next episode. It is free marketing, they won't change it.
Who in their right mind would not buy a Telltale Game - even if only one episode has been released, their just too good to wait for over a year for the whole game to come out and then purchase to play it.
It would be interesting if Telltale experimented outside of the Episodic gaming format although considering their not a large studio like Ubisoft or EA its understandable why they publish their games episodically since making a full game all at once might be over-budget or something.
Yeah, I agree that their games are too good to wait for a year, I could never wait that long, that's why I always buy the season pass once the first episode is out. Though, it's not TT's fault if someone can't wait 8~10 months. The only problem I have with it is how some episodes take forever to be released (16 weeks to TFTB EP2, and 14 weeks to EP3) but that doesn't mean they should quit the episodic format. Telltale should just take a little longer to release the first episode.
Who in their right mind would not buy a Telltale Game - even if only one episode has been released, their just too good to wait for over a y… moreear for the whole game to come out and then purchase to play it.
It would be interesting if Telltale experimented outside of the Episodic gaming format although considering their not a large studio like Ubisoft or EA its understandable why they publish their games episodically since making a full game all at once might be over-budget or something.
Some people seem to forget that before The Walking Dead, Telltale had been making episodic games for six years already. Some people seem to forget that episodic games are exactly what Telltale does. I can't say that 'episodic' has always worked out perfectly, but I can say that in more than one case, Telltale has actually made 'episodic' work out great. And I say that despite my general dislike of episodic content.
Criticising Telltale for making episodic games is like criticising Back to the Future for using time travel as a plot device.
Telltale IS episodic games. If they quit the "episodic BS", they quit being Telltale.
You know, Until Dawn shows that interactive story games can be good without being bound to the episodic format though one clear advantage of the episodic format would be feedback from players and the subsequent episodes being tailored to what they wanted to see.
By similar logic, one might argue that Telltale quit being Telltale when they dropped puzzle solving from their games.
For me, the mission statement of Telltale can be summed up in its name. They want to tell good tales. As long as they keep striving for that and don't start making CoD type games, they'll still be the same company to me. The episodic thing has always struck me as the means rather than the end.
Some people seem to forget that before The Walking Dead, Telltale had been making episodic games for six years already. Some people seem to … moreforget that episodic games are exactly what Telltale does. I can't say that 'episodic' has always worked out perfectly, but I can say that in more than one case, Telltale has actually made 'episodic' work out great. And I say that despite my general dislike of episodic content.
Criticising Telltale for making episodic games is like criticising Back to the Future for using time travel as a plot device.
Telltale IS episodic games. If they quit the "episodic BS", they quit being Telltale.
By similar logic, one might argue that Telltale quit being Telltale when they dropped puzzle solving from their games.
For me, the missio… moren statement of Telltale can be summed up in its name. They want to tell good tales. As long as they keep striving for that and don't start making CoD type games, they'll still be the same company to me. The episodic thing has always struck me as the means rather than the end.
I, personally, would have enjoyed Until Dawn a lot more if it were in episodes. You get to board the hype train with everyone else that way. People would get to share theories that way. Episodic gaming is one of the reasons why this forum is so much fun to participate in.
You know, Until Dawn shows that interactive story games can be good without being bound to the episodic format though one clear advantage of… more the episodic format would be feedback from players and the subsequent episodes being tailored to what they wanted to see.
I'm going to be repeating a lot of what I said elsewhere in this thread, but whatever.
If Telltale wants to stick to episodic games, then they need to re-evaluate why. Its not good enough to say that all Telltale games must be episodic because all previous Telltale games have been episodic*. The way they're currently writing their games, I see no value in making them episodic. Every game since the Walking Dead has just been one long, continuous story with arbitrary breakpoints between episodes. Their older games had mostly self-contained episodes, with the last episode tying the previous episodes together. That's how you do episodic games. The way I see it, they can either go back to something like that, or keep doing what they're doing and dump the episodic model.
I disagree that the episodic model is integral to Telltale's identity. They tell stories. Everything else is secondary to that goal. But I suspect that I won't be able to convince you of that.
* I realize that there are a handful of non-episodic Telltale games, but I'm talking about their "main" games.
Comments
Oh you're ignorant. Hes just saying that they could try out a normal development period for a game. I am all for "EPISODES". But they don't have to come out 3 months apart. They can make all 5 and release it at once. What's the difference between buying it after it's all been released and just releasing it all at once? Nothing. They could develop a game silently and not have the community ripping them a new asshole everyday.
The way to release them quicker is not making them shorter or worse quality. They should just develop games a little more silently. Like say while GoT and Tftb is going on they are also working on a different game that is 5 episodes but they finish like 3 episodes before releasing the premiere. That way they'd be so much farther ahead then normal and it would work better for the quality of episodes 4 and 5 because they would have around 5 months to work on them. (might solve the penultimate curse)
Uh... why don't you wait until all the episodes are out? It's not like they're forcing you to buy it before the season is over.
I see where you're coming from, but to be honest I'm so used to the episodic system by now, it would kind of ruin the Telltale feeling to just play a full game without the cliffhangers and all. Sure, waiting sucks, but it leaves time for discussion, theories and overall getting excited to see what happens next.
Though I do agree with the fact the episodes are too far apart. A month or so would be better than three, but oh well, what can we do about it.
Solution: wait for the retail version.
Like most people have said, I love the feeling of each episode being released.
Really benefits the community as well.
Well I can see everyone is jumping down your throat, but how about we actually have a serious discussion about this?
To be honest, I love TTG, but the episodic style is getting old. Here's how I see it.
Pros:
The devs responds to feedback
Pacing allows for the writers and such to add new things and reveals
Pacing helps with the story and ensures people don't blow through there content twice a year.
We stay engaged with the game and company throughout the year
This builds the community up.
We get to see how more of our decisions line up at the end of each episode
Cons:
Endless waiting
Playing through the game, either if you waited until all the episodes come out or are just trying the game with different decisions, is very tedious. The trailers for the next episode and "previously on" moments are practically vital for playing as each episode comes out but are annoying otherwise, creating an imbalanced experience for players
It's an outdated model. "Episodes" is a TV concept being used for the digital age and feels like a step back for video games. It doesn't compare well to say, the way that Netflix deals with this kind of stuff
Feedback can be good, but I often worry that Telltale hears from the loudest and most repetitive of fans. Sometimes the nosiest opinions don't represent what everyone wants or how they feel.
People can lose interest and forget about these things over time
Though I've defended them on this before, TTG is pretty bad at communication, exasperating problem number 5. Frustrated fans will always lead to less fans, and my guess is that having so much ongoing stuff makes it hard for the company to establish firm release dates. Thus leading to silly moments where they announce an episode the day before release. And while it's great they are getting stuff out to us ASAP, I can't see how last minute announcements help the company
I feel that 5-6 "due dates" are far worse than 1... Yes, stuff can be delayed and all that, but TTG must set goals for themselves and whether or not they meet them very likely influences the quality of various episodes across the games.
No need to force cliffhangers and such
Neutral:
1. Focus is hard to gauge. On the one hand, one big game lets TTG put all their effort into making one, cohesive, polished experience. But letting them divvy it up into episodes ensures that each episode.
So you see what I mean? There is some merit for the episodes idea being at the very least tinkered with. Why not improve, if possible? There are ways to address many of the cons without abandoning the idea entirely. For example, I like TfBorderlands' episode recaps, as they aren't just clips. So playing through the game the 2nd time or all at once won't feel as stale. But certainly the OP has a point...
I want to address a few of your cons.
Are you saying playing the game is tedious? Playing again is tedious but let's be serious, things could be added differently rather than getting rid of the episodic way...Like a skip button like in LiS.
Yes, several "fans" of Telltale complain a lot on here, like threads like this for example. Telltale doesn't listen to a lot of this feedback, well they do, but they don't change because of it.
People can lose interest and that happens with almost anything.
Fair point, communication is key.
That's the thing though, allowing this episodic format to happen gives time for any plot changes to occur. There have been far many more delays from one release date than most, if not all, telltale games. The episodic format, despite the long waits, allows telltale to release when they're ready (Or forced). Goals are good but deadlines cause rushed games.
The way the OP expressed their point was extremely flawed. Could things be fixed? Of course. Should we eliminate the entire format for a few debatable reasons? No.
I'm saying that playing the game under certain conditions (like with all episodes released) CAN be tedious. Like you said (and I said) this can be fixed without doing away with episodes entirely.
And goals can still influence gameplay, which is my concern. It's good they have the judgement to push stuff back when needed, but I still think they can rush the devs at times.
But yeah, my point was just that OP had some merit to what he was saying, even if they did so in a completely illiterate fashion.
Everyone who complains on this website has merit, Telltale isn't perfect and they could improve but what some of us don't understand is that the episodic format isn't the problem.
I agree, plus they could do more with choices given they would have the time. No more determinate characters dieing.
Waiting is part of the fun, even if it's difficult sometimes. I wouldn't mind shorter waiting periods though.
The solution isn't to end episodic games but it's to create better games/better stories that fit into the episodic model.
Game of Thrones is a perfect example. Not only is it an abomination story wise but it doesn't really fit with the episodic model at all. There needs to be twists and turns multiple divergent story-lines, dialogue heavy, etc you can't do GOT properly with 1-2 months development time between episodes.
Tales of the Borderlands is the exact opposite. Goofy, linear, plenty of action it's almost a glove fit for the episodic format. Which in large part why the two games are viewed much differently by reviewers.
No, not really.
That and choices not mattering.
Having it in episodes just keeps discussion about the game going and creates much more hype for the next episode. It is free marketing, they won't change it.
Who in their right mind would not buy a Telltale Game - even if only one episode has been released, their just too good to wait for over a year for the whole game to come out and then purchase to play it.
It would be interesting if Telltale experimented outside of the Episodic gaming format although considering their not a large studio like Ubisoft or EA its understandable why they publish their games episodically since making a full game all at once might be over-budget or something.
Yeah, I agree that their games are too good to wait for a year, I could never wait that long, that's why I always buy the season pass once the first episode is out. Though, it's not TT's fault if someone can't wait 8~10 months. The only problem I have with it is how some episodes take forever to be released (16 weeks to TFTB EP2, and 14 weeks to EP3) but that doesn't mean they should quit the episodic format. Telltale should just take a little longer to release the first episode.
No one's forbidding you from waiting until the full episodes is released.Be a child somewhere else.
Some people seem to forget that before The Walking Dead, Telltale had been making episodic games for six years already. Some people seem to forget that episodic games are exactly what Telltale does. I can't say that 'episodic' has always worked out perfectly, but I can say that in more than one case, Telltale has actually made 'episodic' work out great. And I say that despite my general dislike of episodic content.
Criticising Telltale for making episodic games is like criticising Back to the Future for using time travel as a plot device.
Telltale IS episodic games. If they quit the "episodic BS", they quit being Telltale.
You know, Until Dawn shows that interactive story games can be good without being bound to the episodic format though one clear advantage of the episodic format would be feedback from players and the subsequent episodes being tailored to what they wanted to see.
By similar logic, one might argue that Telltale quit being Telltale when they dropped puzzle solving from their games.
For me, the mission statement of Telltale can be summed up in its name. They want to tell good tales. As long as they keep striving for that and don't start making CoD type games, they'll still be the same company to me. The episodic thing has always struck me as the means rather than the end.
Telltale didn't invent adventure games. Telltale didn't invent puzzles. They did, in a way, invent episodic gaming.
I, personally, would have enjoyed Until Dawn a lot more if it were in episodes. You get to board the hype train with everyone else that way. People would get to share theories that way. Episodic gaming is one of the reasons why this forum is so much fun to participate in.
I feel like we have had a thread like this before.
I'm going to be repeating a lot of what I said elsewhere in this thread, but whatever.
If Telltale wants to stick to episodic games, then they need to re-evaluate why. Its not good enough to say that all Telltale games must be episodic because all previous Telltale games have been episodic*. The way they're currently writing their games, I see no value in making them episodic. Every game since the Walking Dead has just been one long, continuous story with arbitrary breakpoints between episodes. Their older games had mostly self-contained episodes, with the last episode tying the previous episodes together. That's how you do episodic games. The way I see it, they can either go back to something like that, or keep doing what they're doing and dump the episodic model.
I disagree that the episodic model is integral to Telltale's identity. They tell stories. Everything else is secondary to that goal. But I suspect that I won't be able to convince you of that.
* I realize that there are a handful of non-episodic Telltale games, but I'm talking about their "main" games.
Tbh yeah it sucks having to wait but tbh i think it kinda creates a awesome feel and kinda builds hype for each episode kinda like GOT Tv Show does.