I think this is really about the writing. I made Duncan the Sentinel in my original playthrough because that's how I like to play games like this the first time through (the level-headed diplomat). The problem is there's no payoff for behaving that way. You get stomped on and dragged through the mud anyway. If that's the way it's going to be regardless, why not act more brash/defiant like Royland and stand up for yourself? I see no reason to ever play as the appeaser in this game ever again and I really doubt there's gonna be any kind of reward in the final episode for acting that way.
Royland's declaration of loyalty to Ethan feel more heartwarming and honest than Duncan, in my opinion. Considering that he didn't have a high opinion on Ethan before he became lord, it is really touching.
"No matter what, I will stand beside you, my lord, where your sentinel belongs." - Royland
pre-established tendency to go behind the Lord's back to do what he thinks is best.
Could you people stop using it as an argument? He did it ONE time to stop Gared from being beheaded from the Boltons. But if he did it ONE time how is it a tendency.
I think Royland makes the best Sentinel. The Maester explains to Ethan that the Sentinel is man he should trust over all others and the nex… moret person you see is Royland, bringing a thief/deserter straight to the Lord. Just one example of many, but Royland just has this unwavering sense of discipline and honor that makes him the ideal Sentinel.
I also think Duncan makes a more tragic and believable traitor. Being a traitor sticks to his pre-established tendency to go behind the Lord's back to do what he thinks is best. It is even more tragic when he tells that, despite everything, he never betrayed the secret of the North Grove.
pre-established tendency to go behind the Lord's back to do what he thinks is best.
Could you people stop using it as an argument? H… moree did it ONE time to stop Gared from being beheaded from the Boltons. But if he did it ONE time how is it a tendency.
The irony of someone who favours the "wise" Sentinel, refusing to read a topic about him because it's too much text... wow lol.
Well, sho… morews the level of their fans, doesn't it?
Royland's fans: Constructs lengthy well-reasoned arguments with multiple points.
Duncan's fans: Says can't be bothered for that. And posts a meme.
Brilliant.
Did Royland warn Ethan? No he didn't and he also knew, it was the obvious thing to do and is not such "huge decision" is the fate of a squire, Ludd was only exagerating to have something to complain about.
I mean that only a really passionate person could make that dedicion about going to war with a pathetic army. And I meant kamikaze owing to the fact that going to war under those conditions is like going straight to dead.
Uh it definitely is a major decision, especially since Whitehill freaks out and goes straight to the Boltons when Gared isn't at Ironrath, leading to Ramsay showing up and murdering Ethan over disobedience. Yeah, a lot better to get the Lord killed rather than a squire.
And it doesn't matter whether it was a squire or a peasant or a blacksmith, the Lord reserves final judgment and Duncan straight up made the call.
And you can't really fault Royland for following the orders of the castellan. Maybe he should have warned Ethan but it seems like Gared left pretty much immediately. And it was Duncan's idea entirely, no one to blame but Duncan, really.
Did Royland warn Ethan? No he didn't and he also knew, it was the obvious thing to do and is not such "huge decision" is the fate of a squire, Ludd was only exagerating to have something to complain about.
I mean that only a really passionate person could make that dedicion about going to war with a pathetic army. And I meant kamikaze owing to the fact that going to war under those conditions is like going straight to dead.
I know Duncan is the main responsible, but it was his nephew (and yes blaming Royland is stupid), but it was only ONCE and it was to protect HIS FAMILY, he couldn't just wait that Ludd get at Ironrath and behead Gared. So I think using that as an argument to see how loyal the men is, is not fair because his own family was in game and he did it only once.
Uh it definitely is a major decision, especially since Whitehill freaks out and goes straight to the Boltons when Gared isn't at Ironrath, l… moreeading to Ramsay showing up and murdering Ethan over disobedience. Yeah, a lot better to get the Lord killed rather than a squire.
And it doesn't matter whether it was a squire or a peasant or a blacksmith, the Lord reserves final judgment and Duncan straight up made the call.
And you can't really fault Royland for following the orders of the castellan. Maybe he should have warned Ethan but it seems like Gared left pretty much immediately. And it was Duncan's idea entirely, no one to blame but Duncan, really.
Duncan also doesn't tell Ethan (or Rodrik though he seems to already know) about the North Grove. That kind of disqualified him as a sentinel pick for me. If he can keep something that big from his lord, what else could he hide?
pre-established tendency to go behind the Lord's back to do what he thinks is best.
Could you people stop using it as an argument? H… moree did it ONE time to stop Gared from being beheaded from the Boltons. But if he did it ONE time how is it a tendency.
Duncan also doesn't tell Ethan (or Rodrik though he seems to already know) about the North Grove. That kind of disqualified him as a sentinel pick for me. If he can keep something that big from his lord, what else could he hide?
Depends on the variety of cockroach, I suppose. I've stomped on cockroaches, and seen their white guts ooze out, only to watch them try to crawl away. Just saying.
I think they're both equally capable in terms of their positions at Ironrath. Duncan is just as good a Castellan, as Royland is a Master-at-Arms, for example.
But, for me, only one of them is fit for the position of Sentinel.
It's so great to see some Royland love although I do disagree with you to a degree. It's been a while for some love since there'd been some shitposting. But I'm not going to be biased about this. The story is shaped by how you play it, you don't really have to follow either Duncan's or Royland's advice to the absolute T, you can make a mix, or take the middle ground in the "Maester's Stance" as I call it, since it seems rather like you're watching from above instead of being in the middle of it. What really came down to my choice to chose Royland as my Sentinel in my canon playthrough was his words about having to project strength in time of weakness, because it is true with how everything shapes out in the game. & Who is the first person to appear when Ethan & Ortengryn are talking about the Sentinel Position? Royland is; he comes toting a thief. Duncan is a good choice as well; Don't get me wrong, he has some points in his goal, but he is willing to do more shadier things (i.e. Went behind Ethan's back; yes, it was for Gared, I know but it stills counts-- they had time & should have held counsel with Ethan about this, I'd have preferred a Trial by Combat to determine whether Gared was right or wrong in his actions, but I suppose we would have ended up having a different story line in the end. & He also went to the Wall under the pretext of giving arms to the Night's Watch, but his real reason to be there was to tell Gared to find the North Grove & abandon the Watch) than Royland who is straightforward & up front about everything he does. Royland's extremely blunt & doesn't care who's feelings he hurts in the process. I don't deny that both love the Forresters like their family, Talia's comment of: "They're like Family, Rodrik.", lets us know how much they mean to the Forresters & how much Royland/Duncan care for them. But I will focus on Royland...
Royland seems closer to the Forrester children to me, whilst Duncan was closer to Gregor & Elissa. I'm going to bring up some old stuff both from old threads I wrote & from my stuff on tumblr; Royland doesn't have a family anymore. He was a Highborn Son (Or Lord, perhaps.) of the House Degore. They were wiped out, except for him, during the Greyjoy Rebellion. He had no one else. The Forresters essentially adopted him into their family after the rebellion. I'm no doctor but I feel very strongly that Royland suffers from both Post Traumatic Stress Disorder & Intermittent Explosive Disorder (In less Scientific & Medical terms, he suffers from War flashbacks & has anger issues.), neither is quite a good combination, one alone is enough to cause some trouble if not taken care of properly. Going back to the Highborn point, I would like to say that Royland will grudgingly respect Duncan if he is Sentinel, except for a few outbursts against Duncan. He doesn't actively jab at Duncan for anything, whereas, Duncan is the opposite. It's a little tipoff, I believe, to their statuses & how they were raised. Royland would have been taught to respect his equals & those he disliked regardless of his own feelings towards the person. Duncan, having grown up on a farm as opposed to a castle, would gain his more honest self but maybe not quite the respect that Royland would have had drilled into him since his House was a Military-based one. Duncan jabs at Royland far more than Royland does, mostly behind his back, but he takes many more chances to do so-- trying to make Royland seem lesser in the Player's eyes, while Royland will bluntly state his opinion about Duncan at some junctures, except when the two argue, & be done with it. They're shown to also not always be at each other's throats as Royland sympathizes with Duncan & Gared's loss of their family, he understands that type of loss too.
A lot of people, who don't like Royland or don't take the time try to understand him, see him as of a lesser intelligence (I'm talking about the people who say they dislike him only on the principle that he's not like Duncan & get satisfaction out of killing him solely on the fact he's more of an Asshole type character. It's like saying you don't like Talia because she's not Ethan. They will always be very different people). So, I will reiterate, Royland is a Highborn Lord, he doesn't claim to be a Lord since his House was destroyed in the Greyjoy Rebellion. But the usual perks with coming up in a prominent family is getting a proper education; however, his House was a Knightly one... House Degore was a more military-styled house, which probably focused more on training armies & blacksmithing. So, Royland would have more roots in the ideas of battle tactics, training soldiers, working in an armory, etc. But that doesn't mean he also wasn't taught to be a Lord or taught about Westeros, the History of the know World, etc that was all taught to him by a Maester (or a Scholar if they didn't have a Maester). Everyone is different when it comes to their intellectual approach about things. Duncan is a much more logical man when it comes to his approach as Sentinel. Duncan focuses a lot on the acts that are logically supposed to win peace with others. Most of what he does is to help the House, I don't deny this, but even logic falters in some plans. & the main difference between these two are that Duncan is Logos (Meaning "Word" in Greek) & Royland is Pathos ("Suffering" or "Experience" in Greek); meaning that Duncan focuses more on the Logical appeal while Royland is a man who focuses in his emotions & the experience he has. Both are also well put in the area of Ethos ("Character") as well, as many people trust the both of them equally in the game, it's their credibility as a person to lead is trusted by others in the House. But Royland is a more intuitive thinker, not logic based when it comes to making decisions. He knows people.
Referring back to the Forresters & how they are family to him; Royland often doesn't address Rodrik or Talia by their titles when they're alone & they, in turn, do the same to him. Talia skips straight to Royland, not Ser or Ser Royland, in the Forest Clearing when Rodrik is training. Rodrik often, too, addresses him by his name rather than his title. They're quite relaxed around him & he is with them. He's a part of their Family, just as much as he thinks they're his... May I also raise the fact that Royland is also a Military Genius? He's a warrior at heart, Royland is well known for his expertise as a leader in battle. He played a crucial part in ending the Greyjoy Rebellion at the Siege of Pyke, which we don't know what he did, he also destroyed a part of the Iron Fleet at Sea Dragon Point in the Rebellion as well. Those are just two notices that we get before the game flat out tells us he led a Battalion; which means he led up to eight hundred soldiers into battle. A Military Genius is the Master-at-arms for the Forresters. I know that it's hard to consider, especially if he was your traitor (but I've noticed most people don't bother to try & see the larger picture or just flat out hate him regardless of anything.), but a Military Genius-- Military Genius-- you have a Military Genius in your arsenal !! He can be essential for a very successful win against the Whitehills. Even if he was a Traitor, I see a subplot of a possible Redemption being thrown into the last episode, where the Traitor does something to redeem himself-- whether die or not, only Telltale knows. He can be a decisive part of winning against the Whitehills, but I do see Duncan planning a more subtle, sneakier assault on the Whitehills while Royland's will probably be more direct with a frontal assault but probably some underhanded tactics too.
Royland's also extremely perceptive & knows a lot more about the World than Duncan, who shows some extreme naivety as some points in the game. I don't think Duncan's truly ever been in a real war or had a threat so close to home until now in the Game. Royland just sees the world as the harsh & cruel place it can be, but Duncan sees it more to be Black & White; as in "if i do this good thing, good will come back to me" or "if i submit, then they won't harm me". I think Royland threatens that view of his, Duncan doesn't want to see the World as it truly can be. Royland is always the first to react when it comes to things that happen:
He is aware of Ramsay's reputation & knows there isn't any reasoning with him, not because he's a Bastard, but because he's a psychopath-- you really can't reason with them. But it takes a Monster to know a Monster, I theorize that it is possible that Royland has Antisocial Disorder (which is a part of being a Psychopath).
Royland already has his sword ready in Episode one when the Whtiehill Garrison comes into the Great Hall.
Tries to run to Ethan's side, possibly fights off Whitehills trying to grab him, & attack Ramsay before he is hit in the Solar Plexus-- That can really hurt.
He actively prepares the men for battle.
First to react to the Corpse falling off the Corpse cart & finds that it is actually Rodrik.
Jumps straight to Rodrik's (& in extension, Talia's) defense in Episode three.
If taken to Highpoint, he is immediately ready to defend & protect little Ryon when Ludd was threatening to kill him.
Super quick reflexes if you chose the [Attack] option to get that throw with the axe in.
When they arrive back at Ironrath, Royland is the first to take note of the blood & the emptiness.
Hand goes straight to his sword when he hears Ramsay's laugh. (He is so fiercely protective of Talia, do not deny this.)
Notices that Gryff & his Co. have escaped, despite it being scripted, when the guards for the cells really should have been the ones to know first.
I also think he has previous ties to the Whitehills that extends beyond the shared hatred because they're the Forrester's rival. The animosity that Royland & Ludd show to each other isn't just from the rivalry, not to me, at least, & some of what Royland says just doesn't add up when it comes to Ludd-- especially a line from Episode Four at Highpoint, Royland says: "As if He'd protect us" with some very heavy emphasis on "protect". Which is followed by a scoff form Royland & the two locking eyes. Also, recalling a previous conversation that the two shared in Episode One.
Royland: ”Roose Bolton is the Warden of the North.”
Ludd: ”Aye, & we’ve been his bannerman for five fucking centuries, you cunt."
Royland is immediately hackles raised & these two look like they're about ready to swing at each other. The way they go at each other, specifically Royland since we don't exactly see much of Ludd, suggests to me that there was once something more, House ties or maybe they'd been friends before something soured their relationship, perhaps Royland joining the Forresters (?).
"The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions." Royland's not perfect, neither is Duncan. Royland has some particularly large faults but it plays perfectly into the character he's portrayed as. He can let his emotions get the best of him at times, specifically his anger & his protectiveness of the Forresters. Royland can be extremely aggressive. I'm not blind to his faults. He is a deeply flawed person, but that's what makes me like him so much & enjoy his character more than Duncan's. I also do apologize for the length of this, I got carried away, because I've spent weeks delving into each character in the Game because I like to know how they work & I like to try to uncover their secrets... While I like Duncan as a character; the unlovable ass that is Royland Degore is really the one who has taken the position as my Sentinel forevermore.
And I'm inclined to agree with you 100% really. As you say, Royland is flawed, just as Duncan is flawed, but ultimately the former is a more interesting character. And for us both I think, a more likeable one, maybe because of it. Have a thumbs up, ser.
It's so great to see some Royland love although I do disagree with you to a degree. It's been a while for some love since there'd been some … moreshitposting. But I'm not going to be biased about this. The story is shaped by how you play it, you don't really have to follow either Duncan's or Royland's advice to the absolute T, you can make a mix, or take the middle ground in the "Maester's Stance" as I call it, since it seems rather like you're watching from above instead of being in the middle of it. What really came down to my choice to chose Royland as my Sentinel in my canon playthrough was his words about having to project strength in time of weakness, because it is true with how everything shapes out in the game. & Who is the first person to appear when Ethan & Ortengryn are talking about the Sentinel Position? Royland is; he comes toting a thief. Duncan is a good choice as well; Don't get me wrong, he has some points in his goal, but… [view original content]
Well said! You summed it all up better than I did
And I'm inclined to agree with you 100% really. As you say, Royland is flawed, just as… more Duncan is flawed, but ultimately the former is a more interesting character. And for us both I think, a more likeable one, maybe because of it. Have a thumbs up, ser.
Very well written post, I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions a lot. I know I sometimes praise Royland a lot, but I am not blind to his flaws. He is not a perfect human being. He is aggressive and hot-headed. He can cause a lot of tension and make unnecessary enemies. But I love his open and emotional personality. It is always reassuring to know that his blunt opinions is always honest. And I clearly admire the loyalty he show to my family and my house. No disrespect to those who like Duncan, but I find Royland far more interesting and likable. It was heartwarming to watch as Royland's respect to Ethan grow as the boy proved himself until his loyalty becomes solidified when he got chosen as his sentinel, culminating in him declaring that he will stand by his side, no matter what.
Duncan would have been a great Sentinel in the times of peace, but in times of war, I need someone who knows wars and battle. A Sentinel should be someone you trust above all others. And I trust Royland the most.
It's so great to see some Royland love although I do disagree with you to a degree. It's been a while for some love since there'd been some … moreshitposting. But I'm not going to be biased about this. The story is shaped by how you play it, you don't really have to follow either Duncan's or Royland's advice to the absolute T, you can make a mix, or take the middle ground in the "Maester's Stance" as I call it, since it seems rather like you're watching from above instead of being in the middle of it. What really came down to my choice to chose Royland as my Sentinel in my canon playthrough was his words about having to project strength in time of weakness, because it is true with how everything shapes out in the game. & Who is the first person to appear when Ethan & Ortengryn are talking about the Sentinel Position? Royland is; he comes toting a thief. Duncan is a good choice as well; Don't get me wrong, he has some points in his goal, but… [view original content]
And I yours, as well. After all, we seem to favour the same way of thinking--we both saved Rodrik, obviously chose Royland as our Sentinels, and so forth.
(I'm assuming your comment is aimed at me, if not this is awkward, but one must stick with their choices, right? :P In the game, and on its forum... or so I'm going to tell myself in order to justify it)
Anyway, reading back through my original post now, it does seem like I'm blind to Royland's flaws. But you are right of course, he is not perfect. As has been said, he's far too hot-tempered, and unwilling to compromise. But in the end, his loyalty to the Forresters, to Ethan, to Rodrik, always felt more sincere than Duncan's did, and, I admired his blunt honesty, despite its drawbacks.
I also agree that, if House Forrester was in Westeros during a period of peace, Duncan would have been a great (and likely, much better) Sentinel than Royland would. But of course, Westeros isn't... thus Royland is more suitable. And like you, I always trusted Royland more than Duncan. Even from Episode 1.
Very well written post, I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions a lot. I know I sometimes praise Royland a lot, but I am not blind to his… more flaws. He is not a perfect human being. He is aggressive and hot-headed. He can cause a lot of tension and make unnecessary enemies. But I love his open and emotional personality. It is always reassuring to know that his blunt opinions is always honest. And I clearly admire the loyalty he show to my family and my house. No disrespect to those who like Duncan, but I find Royland far more interesting and likable. It was heartwarming to watch as Royland's respect to Ethan grow as the boy proved himself until his loyalty becomes solidified when he got chosen as his sentinel, culminating in him declaring that he will stand by his side, no matter what.
Duncan would have been a great Sentinel in the times of peace, but in times of war, I need someone who knows wars and battle. A Sentinel should be someone you trust above all others. And I trust Royland the most.
I agree. Duncan could have possibly worked well for the first episode too if we had got the chance to re-chose as Rodrik in the second episode. Duncan is a levelheaded guy, but he's not used to war as I said, or at least-- hasn't experienced it as Royland has. & yeah, watching Royland grow to respect Ethan over the first episode, even breaking down at the Burnings for both Gregor & him. It was nice to see & it shows growth in him that some people can be blind to.
Very well written post, I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions a lot. I know I sometimes praise Royland a lot, but I am not blind to his… more flaws. He is not a perfect human being. He is aggressive and hot-headed. He can cause a lot of tension and make unnecessary enemies. But I love his open and emotional personality. It is always reassuring to know that his blunt opinions is always honest. And I clearly admire the loyalty he show to my family and my house. No disrespect to those who like Duncan, but I find Royland far more interesting and likable. It was heartwarming to watch as Royland's respect to Ethan grow as the boy proved himself until his loyalty becomes solidified when he got chosen as his sentinel, culminating in him declaring that he will stand by his side, no matter what.
Duncan would have been a great Sentinel in the times of peace, but in times of war, I need someone who knows wars and battle. A Sentinel should be someone you trust above all others. And I trust Royland the most.
And I yours, as well. After all, we seem to favour the same way of thinking--we both saved Rodrik, obviously chose Royland as our Sentinels,… more and so forth.
(I'm assuming your comment is aimed at me, if not this is awkward, but one must stick with their choices, right? :P In the game, and on its forum... or so I'm going to tell myself in order to justify it)
Anyway, reading back through my original post now, it does seem like I'm blind to Royland's flaws. But you are right of course, he is not perfect. As has been said, he's far too hot-tempered, and unwilling to compromise. But in the end, his loyalty to the Forresters, to Ethan, to Rodrik, always felt more sincere than Duncan's did, and, I admired his blunt honesty, despite its drawbacks.
I also agree that, if House Forrester was in Westeros during a period of peace, Duncan would have been a great (and likely, much better) Sentinel than Royland would. But of course, Westeros isn't...… [view original content]
I'm glad I picked royland, I'm going to kill the whitehills and I have some strong soldiers to make a go of it Asher beshka royland, sorry Duncan go talk to a tree bud, no diplomacy for me.
Comments
What about lock picking?
I think Ramsey ripped Arthur enough. He doesn't need anymore.
I think this is really about the writing. I made Duncan the Sentinel in my original playthrough because that's how I like to play games like this the first time through (the level-headed diplomat). The problem is there's no payoff for behaving that way. You get stomped on and dragged through the mud anyway. If that's the way it's going to be regardless, why not act more brash/defiant like Royland and stand up for yourself? I see no reason to ever play as the appeaser in this game ever again and I really doubt there's gonna be any kind of reward in the final episode for acting that way.
Too soon! T_T
Royland's declaration of loyalty to Ethan feel more heartwarming and honest than Duncan, in my opinion. Considering that he didn't have a high opinion on Ethan before he became lord, it is really touching.
"No matter what, I will stand beside you, my lord, where your sentinel belongs." - Royland
Could you people stop using it as an argument? He did it ONE time to stop Gared from being beheaded from the Boltons. But if he did it ONE time how is it a tendency.
Making a huge decision like that behind the Lord's back is a pretty big thing. Don't think we should just ignore this about his character.
Royland's fans: Constructs lengthy well-reasoned arguments with multiple points.
Duncan's fans: Says can't be bothered for that. And posts a meme.
Do not generalize.
Did Royland warn Ethan? No he didn't and he also knew, it was the obvious thing to do and is not such "huge decision" is the fate of a squire, Ludd was only exagerating to have something to complain about.
Exactly! Look how good it worked for Japan.
I mean that only a really passionate person could make that dedicion about going to war with a pathetic army. And I meant kamikaze owing to the fact that going to war under those conditions is like going straight to dead.
Uh it definitely is a major decision, especially since Whitehill freaks out and goes straight to the Boltons when Gared isn't at Ironrath, leading to Ramsay showing up and murdering Ethan over disobedience. Yeah, a lot better to get the Lord killed rather than a squire.
And it doesn't matter whether it was a squire or a peasant or a blacksmith, the Lord reserves final judgment and Duncan straight up made the call.
And you can't really fault Royland for following the orders of the castellan. Maybe he should have warned Ethan but it seems like Gared left pretty much immediately. And it was Duncan's idea entirely, no one to blame but Duncan, really.
Yeah I understand. You dont have to tell me.
I know Duncan is the main responsible, but it was his nephew (and yes blaming Royland is stupid), but it was only ONCE and it was to protect HIS FAMILY, he couldn't just wait that Ludd get at Ironrath and behead Gared. So I think using that as an argument to see how loyal the men is, is not fair because his own family was in game and he did it only once.
2015
Duncan also doesn't tell Ethan (or Rodrik though he seems to already know) about the North Grove. That kind of disqualified him as a sentinel pick for me. If he can keep something that big from his lord, what else could he hide?
After Red Wedding Forresters were as strong as a cockroach. Choosing Royland is preparing this insect for a battle. Good luck.
DUNCAN FTW!
That depends on person to person. I can understand that what Duncan did was to ensure that his nephew keep his head
This is actually a bad argument as cockroaches are very strong. Cockroaches could survive a nuclear holocaust.
As far I know Boltons and Whitehils do not have nuclear weaponry but their soldiers wear heavy boots.
Am I the only one that likes both characters?
Depends on the variety of cockroach, I suppose. I've stomped on cockroaches, and seen their white guts ooze out, only to watch them try to crawl away. Just saying.
No, same here (though Duncan is still the best, imho).
I think they're both equally capable in terms of their positions at Ironrath. Duncan is just as good a Castellan, as Royland is a Master-at-Arms, for example.
But, for me, only one of them is fit for the position of Sentinel.
TeamRoyland
It's so great to see some Royland love although I do disagree with you to a degree. It's been a while for some love since there'd been some shitposting. But I'm not going to be biased about this. The story is shaped by how you play it, you don't really have to follow either Duncan's or Royland's advice to the absolute T, you can make a mix, or take the middle ground in the "Maester's Stance" as I call it, since it seems rather like you're watching from above instead of being in the middle of it. What really came down to my choice to chose Royland as my Sentinel in my canon playthrough was his words about having to project strength in time of weakness, because it is true with how everything shapes out in the game. & Who is the first person to appear when Ethan & Ortengryn are talking about the Sentinel Position? Royland is; he comes toting a thief. Duncan is a good choice as well; Don't get me wrong, he has some points in his goal, but he is willing to do more shadier things ( i.e. Went behind Ethan's back; yes, it was for Gared, I know but it stills counts-- they had time & should have held counsel with Ethan about this, I'd have preferred a Trial by Combat to determine whether Gared was right or wrong in his actions, but I suppose we would have ended up having a different story line in the end. & He also went to the Wall under the pretext of giving arms to the Night's Watch, but his real reason to be there was to tell Gared to find the North Grove & abandon the Watch ) than Royland who is straightforward & up front about everything he does. Royland's extremely blunt & doesn't care who's feelings he hurts in the process. I don't deny that both love the Forresters like their family, Talia's comment of: "They're like Family, Rodrik.", lets us know how much they mean to the Forresters & how much Royland/Duncan care for them. But I will focus on Royland...
Royland seems closer to the Forrester children to me, whilst Duncan was closer to Gregor & Elissa. I'm going to bring up some old stuff both from old threads I wrote & from my stuff on tumblr; Royland doesn't have a family anymore. He was a Highborn Son ( Or Lord, perhaps. ) of the House Degore. They were wiped out, except for him, during the Greyjoy Rebellion. He had no one else. The Forresters essentially adopted him into their family after the rebellion. I'm no doctor but I feel very strongly that Royland suffers from both Post Traumatic Stress Disorder & Intermittent Explosive Disorder ( In less Scientific & Medical terms, he suffers from War flashbacks & has anger issues. ), neither is quite a good combination, one alone is enough to cause some trouble if not taken care of properly. Going back to the Highborn point, I would like to say that Royland will grudgingly respect Duncan if he is Sentinel, except for a few outbursts against Duncan. He doesn't actively jab at Duncan for anything, whereas, Duncan is the opposite. It's a little tipoff, I believe, to their statuses & how they were raised. Royland would have been taught to respect his equals & those he disliked regardless of his own feelings towards the person. Duncan, having grown up on a farm as opposed to a castle, would gain his more honest self but maybe not quite the respect that Royland would have had drilled into him since his House was a Military-based one. Duncan jabs at Royland far more than Royland does, mostly behind his back, but he takes many more chances to do so-- trying to make Royland seem lesser in the Player's eyes, while Royland will bluntly state his opinion about Duncan at some junctures, except when the two argue, & be done with it. They're shown to also not always be at each other's throats as Royland sympathizes with Duncan & Gared's loss of their family, he understands that type of loss too.
A lot of people, who don't like Royland or don't take the time try to understand him, see him as of a lesser intelligence ( I'm talking about the people who say they dislike him only on the principle that he's not like Duncan & get satisfaction out of killing him solely on the fact he's more of an Asshole type character. It's like saying you don't like Talia because she's not Ethan. They will always be very different people ). So, I will reiterate, Royland is a Highborn Lord, he doesn't claim to be a Lord since his House was destroyed in the Greyjoy Rebellion. But the usual perks with coming up in a prominent family is getting a proper education; however, his House was a Knightly one... House Degore was a more military-styled house, which probably focused more on training armies & blacksmithing. So, Royland would have more roots in the ideas of battle tactics, training soldiers, working in an armory, etc. But that doesn't mean he also wasn't taught to be a Lord or taught about Westeros, the History of the know World, etc that was all taught to him by a Maester ( or a Scholar if they didn't have a Maester ). Everyone is different when it comes to their intellectual approach about things. Duncan is a much more logical man when it comes to his approach as Sentinel. Duncan focuses a lot on the acts that are logically supposed to win peace with others. Most of what he does is to help the House, I don't deny this, but even logic falters in some plans. & the main difference between these two are that Duncan is Logos ( Meaning "Word" in Greek ) & Royland is Pathos ( "Suffering" or "Experience" in Greek ); meaning that Duncan focuses more on the Logical appeal while Royland is a man who focuses in his emotions & the experience he has. Both are also well put in the area of Ethos ( "Character" ) as well, as many people trust the both of them equally in the game, it's their credibility as a person to lead is trusted by others in the House. But Royland is a more intuitive thinker, not logic based when it comes to making decisions. He knows people.
Referring back to the Forresters & how they are family to him; Royland often doesn't address Rodrik or Talia by their titles when they're alone & they, in turn, do the same to him. Talia skips straight to Royland, not Ser or Ser Royland, in the Forest Clearing when Rodrik is training. Rodrik often, too, addresses him by his name rather than his title. They're quite relaxed around him & he is with them. He's a part of their Family, just as much as he thinks they're his... May I also raise the fact that Royland is also a Military Genius? He's a warrior at heart, Royland is well known for his expertise as a leader in battle. He played a crucial part in ending the Greyjoy Rebellion at the Siege of Pyke, which we don't know what he did, he also destroyed a part of the Iron Fleet at Sea Dragon Point in the Rebellion as well. Those are just two notices that we get before the game flat out tells us he led a Battalion; which means he led up to eight hundred soldiers into battle. A Military Genius is the Master-at-arms for the Forresters. I know that it's hard to consider, especially if he was your traitor ( but I've noticed most people don't bother to try & see the larger picture or just flat out hate him regardless of anything. ), but a Military Genius-- Military Genius-- you have a Military Genius in your arsenal !! He can be essential for a very successful win against the Whitehills. Even if he was a Traitor, I see a subplot of a possible Redemption being thrown into the last episode, where the Traitor does something to redeem himself-- whether die or not, only Telltale knows. He can be a decisive part of winning against the Whitehills, but I do see Duncan planning a more subtle, sneakier assault on the Whitehills while Royland's will probably be more direct with a frontal assault but probably some underhanded tactics too.
Royland's also extremely perceptive & knows a lot more about the World than Duncan, who shows some extreme naivety as some points in the game. I don't think Duncan's truly ever been in a real war or had a threat so close to home until now in the Game. Royland just sees the world as the harsh & cruel place it can be, but Duncan sees it more to be Black & White; as in "if i do this good thing, good will come back to me" or "if i submit, then they won't harm me". I think Royland threatens that view of his, Duncan doesn't want to see the World as it truly can be. Royland is always the first to react when it comes to things that happen:
I also think he has previous ties to the Whitehills that extends beyond the shared hatred because they're the Forrester's rival. The animosity that Royland & Ludd show to each other isn't just from the rivalry, not to me, at least, & some of what Royland says just doesn't add up when it comes to Ludd-- especially a line from Episode Four at Highpoint, Royland says: "As if He'd protect us" with some very heavy emphasis on "protect". Which is followed by a scoff form Royland & the two locking eyes. Also, recalling a previous conversation that the two shared in Episode One.
Royland is immediately hackles raised & these two look like they're about ready to swing at each other. The way they go at each other, specifically Royland since we don't exactly see much of Ludd, suggests to me that there was once something more, House ties or maybe they'd been friends before something soured their relationship, perhaps Royland joining the Forresters (?).
"The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions." Royland's not perfect, neither is Duncan. Royland has some particularly large faults but it plays perfectly into the character he's portrayed as. He can let his emotions get the best of him at times, specifically his anger & his protectiveness of the Forresters. Royland can be extremely aggressive. I'm not blind to his faults. He is a deeply flawed person, but that's what makes me like him so much & enjoy his character more than Duncan's. I also do apologize for the length of this, I got carried away, because I've spent weeks delving into each character in the Game because I like to know how they work & I like to try to uncover their secrets... While I like Duncan as a character; the unlovable ass that is Royland Degore is really the one who has taken the position as my Sentinel forevermore.
If you want peace , prepare for war!
Well said! You summed it all up better than I did
And I'm inclined to agree with you 100% really. As you say, Royland is flawed, just as Duncan is flawed, but ultimately the former is a more interesting character. And for us both I think, a more likeable one, maybe because of it. Have a thumbs up, ser.
Why thank you, Ser/Lady, but it would be Lady for me.
Apologies then, my lady.
Very well written post, I enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions a lot. I know I sometimes praise Royland a lot, but I am not blind to his flaws. He is not a perfect human being. He is aggressive and hot-headed. He can cause a lot of tension and make unnecessary enemies. But I love his open and emotional personality. It is always reassuring to know that his blunt opinions is always honest. And I clearly admire the loyalty he show to my family and my house. No disrespect to those who like Duncan, but I find Royland far more interesting and likable. It was heartwarming to watch as Royland's respect to Ethan grow as the boy proved himself until his loyalty becomes solidified when he got chosen as his sentinel, culminating in him declaring that he will stand by his side, no matter what.
Duncan would have been a great Sentinel in the times of peace, but in times of war, I need someone who knows wars and battle. A Sentinel should be someone you trust above all others. And I trust Royland the most.
And I yours, as well. After all, we seem to favour the same way of thinking--we both saved Rodrik, obviously chose Royland as our Sentinels, and so forth.
(I'm assuming your comment is aimed at me, if not this is awkward, but one must stick with their choices, right? :P In the game, and on its forum... or so I'm going to tell myself in order to justify it)
Anyway, reading back through my original post now, it does seem like I'm blind to Royland's flaws. But you are right of course, he is not perfect. As has been said, he's far too hot-tempered, and unwilling to compromise. But in the end, his loyalty to the Forresters, to Ethan, to Rodrik, always felt more sincere than Duncan's did, and, I admired his blunt honesty, despite its drawbacks.
I also agree that, if House Forrester was in Westeros during a period of peace, Duncan would have been a great (and likely, much better) Sentinel than Royland would. But of course, Westeros isn't... thus Royland is more suitable. And like you, I always trusted Royland more than Duncan. Even from Episode 1.
I agree. Duncan could have possibly worked well for the first episode too if we had got the chance to re-chose as Rodrik in the second episode. Duncan is a levelheaded guy, but he's not used to war as I said, or at least-- hasn't experienced it as Royland has. & yeah, watching Royland grow to respect Ethan over the first episode, even breaking down at the Burnings for both Gregor & him. It was nice to see & it shows growth in him that some people can be blind to.
To all who share the same opinion.
I'm glad I picked royland, I'm going to kill the whitehills and I have some strong soldiers to make a go of it Asher beshka royland, sorry Duncan go talk to a tree bud, no diplomacy for me.