Will your Asher or Rodrik change?
Whoever you saved, how will losing both your brothers affect your character? Will he be more ruthless and determined if you saved Rodrik or if you saved Asher will he be more mature and responsible?
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I think my Rodrik will become all the more determined to destroy the Whitehills and secure a safe future for his family and house. My Asher wouldn't forgive the Whitehills for what they have done and even if he remains cordial with Gwyn, he still won't forget that. As for maturity, my Asher is already quite mature and responsible.
But would Asher retain some of the qualities that make him, well Asher?
This is a very good question! I've often wondered how I'll play Asher in EP6. I likely won't decide until I actually play the episode.
Basically if you let Rodrick live he is going full on kill bill mode so he is either going to destroy the whitehills or die trying. If you let Asher live you are going the diplomatic route at the cost of most likely gryff or ludds life you will probably get to make peace with the whitehills buy marrying Gwynn undermining the boltons authority which I think would be the better ending personally.
That would certainly be one of the better ending, but I have a hard time believing it is possible. Why would Gywn marry Asher after he has killed Gryff and Ludd? Unless of course it is a force marriage, which would seem extremely harsh to do that to someone that Asher clearly still have feelings about.
And I seriously doubt that Ludd and Gryff would allow that to happen if they are kept alive. They will almost certainly kill Asher in his sleep.
I understand that but I think they will approach it in a way where Asher is going to talk to Ludd after the battle that will take place at high point.(we all know it's going to happen) and he is either going to force his surrender by showing forgiveness for what they did to his brother by Marrying Gwyn thus uniting the houses and ending the conflict due to the houses overcoming the tyranny of the boltons rule so that they may both survive or killing Ludd and ending house whitehill submitting to the boltons. This is all speculation but it will be very interesting to find out what is going to happen in this episode.
My Asher is now pretty much the man his house needs him to be.
He kept his group together, fought a dragon, granted Beskha her vengeance, still got the gold from the dragon queen, and won the respect of bloodthirsty killers who he brought back to fight for him. He's a badass who would do anything to protect his family like a true lord. I played Rodrik as willing to do anything to protect his family as well, but I played him as more of a tragic hero and it fit for him to sacrifice himself for Asher.
As far as Gwyn goes, Asher will still kill her. Remember Beskha's story about being forced to kill her childhood friend in the arena? Asher is going to find himself in a similar situation with Gwyn and he won't hesitate. My Asher has been contemplating this situation for a while and he won't stop until hes finished off the Whitehills. He's decided that his family is worth saving, and the Whitehills are not.
I don't know who 'Rodrick' is... xD
But, as for Asher, I'll change him... somewhat... just so he can run the House, y'know. Or, really, I'll just adapt him into whatever situation I'm presented with.
It's RODRIK!!!
Okay this bothers me immensely. Several people have said they'll kill Gwyn and I still don't understand why. I fail to a legitimate, reasonable, reason to kill her.
It should be obvious by now that the Forresters cannot live in peace with the Whitehills around trying to steal their livelihood. The Whitehills are literally on the verge of extinguishing the Forrester bloodline as it is. Things are too far gone by this point to simply sit down and talk things through,we are dealing a centuries old blood feud being reignited. By extinguishing the Whitehills we will therefore be ending the blood feud.
And even if you claim that Gwyn is innocent of her families crimes, what do you think she will do when you kill her father and brother? She's going to want revenge. Sparing her as a hostage would serve to secure our dominion over Highpoint, but it seems inevitable that she would appeal to a third party for revenge or simply take matters into her own hands.
So you'll kill Gwyn because of what she 'might' do? In my opinion thinking like that will make the Forresters as bad as the Whitehills or even the Boltons.
Nope, I'm going to kill Gwyn because my plan is to wipe out the whole bloody house. I just provided that example for naive fools who think they can have their revenge on Gryff and Ludd and then marry Gwyn like nothing happened and live happily ever after.
But why kill specifically Gwyn? For having the name Whitehill?
Why yes, her Whitehill lineage probably does have something to do with me wanting to kill her now that you mention it.
That seems like such a petty and villainous reason to kill someone.
Since my Rodrik has been dead set on killing the Whitehills, nothing will really change for mine I guess, he'll just be even more pissed off than he already was.
Because my house is on the verge of extinction and they've been taking the piss out of us since day 1? Yeah okay buddy
So you'll wipe out an entire family because their assholes? The Whitehills never actually hurt anyone until we were officially at war and that was Ramsay's doing not theres. Yes Gryff made our lives pretty shitty and Ludd was a cocky prick who basically asked you to kiss his ass but this doesn't warrant murdering every single member of their family. Anyway, I was talking about specifically Gwyn not the Whitehills just Gwyn.
Excellent question!
My Asher stayed behind and I see Rodrik going all one track mind. I saved him for selfish reasons as much as for the house (and Talia and Elaena), and I know it's going to eat him up inside. I think mine's going to go stone cold and would go straight to Highpoint from the coast if he could. He's been biding his time waiting for Asher and now he has little reason not to go whoop some Whitehill ass. We saw how broken up he was at Gregor and Ethan's funeral and also how he reacted with Arthur. I imagine it's going to be much more intense when it's Asher. My headcanon is they were close when they were young but grew apart in a major way when Rodrik became studious and Asher became kinda wild. That would definitely put them at odds as far as their relationship with Gregor and by extension one another, but i think they both still cared and expected to kind of reconcile and catch up on lost time with Asher's return. That they were denied the opportunity to have brother time and save their house together breaks my damn heart and I doubt I'll ever be fully over it, thanks, Telltale! ;_;
In another file I saved Asher and he's going to have to change. I've played him pretty chaotic neutral (didn't kill Tazal but only because I wanted him to live maimed, let Beskha kill her former master no question, but super close with Malcolm and devoted as hell to the family that exiled him), but he's got a lot to learn about leading a house, especially in a time of war and since he never had any interest in it, plus he's been away for so long. I think he'll do a decent job if only because my Asher would do anything for his family and missed them terribly, but he's never going to be on Rodrik's level of knowing "how" to be a lord proper, having been raised from practically birth for it and being house Forrester's "best warrior by far," how many times did they remind us of that in the first episode. Gregor and Rodrik aren't around to show Asher the "right way" to do things and anyway, that's not his style. He'll do what he has to do. It may not be textbook or conventional but his heart and mind are in the right place and that counts for a lot.
Ultimately yeah, having to leave your brother to die is going to change you. Of course they're both going to have a ton of rage and grief after that and I'm sure Ludd and Gryff are going to feel it. There's no possible way there can be peace now, not even with Asher and Gwyn's theoretical marriage. Elissa would never allow it and anyway, it'd be too awkward. If it wasn't cool with anyone before, no way it's going to be accepted now. I hate to say it but Ramsay called it - one house has to go, and it isn't going to be us... right?
The fact that you said "yeah Gryff is shitty and Ludd is a prick but they didn't hurt anyone until Ramsay made them" is complete hogwash and shows how illogical you are being.
Ludd coming to kill Gared, Ludd boasting to a child about his father's death, Ludd bringing Ramsay to kill Ethan, Gryff terrorizing the small folk, Gryff forcibly shoving Talia into a pile of mud in front of everybody, Gryff beating the shit out Rodrik, Ludd trying to extort the family and taunting them endlessly about their dead family, Ludd holding a knife to Ryon's neck.... all these were situations in which the Whitehills were not even in danger but were simply being shitty, abusive fuckheads and wastes of life.
Oh, but I want to wipe them out all at once to save my house and OUR Ironwood and THAT is petty and villainous? Whatever dude, let me know when you come back from the place where the sun doesn't shine.
As much as I try to support Agent and understand his side of things, I simply can't. I agree with what you are saying. There hasn't been a moment where Ludd and Gryff show that they are reasonable. Gywn is the one bright spot of her family, but even that means nothing if Ludd and Gryff who have the power keeps terrorizing and mistreating the Forresters. If Gryff has been reasonable and haven't mistreated my family, I would have jumped at the chance of making peace with the Whitehills after overthrowing Ludd from power.
I don't feel it is villainous. I feel it is more fuel by pragmatism rather than vengeance. It is a harsh decision, but with the Whitehills gone or at least crippled to the point of never recovering, I would feel safe and secure that my family's future is safe.
Otherwise, I keep fearing a repeating of such conflict in the future. Thus keeping the cycle going.
Well said. The sad part for me is that I even promised Gwyn I would submit to her family. I didn't hit the disrespectful soldiers (wow, if only Gwyn had seen that display...) and didn't intend to retaliate until Gryff starting pushing and hitting defenseless people (oh poor Gryff, his brothers picked on him!).
And you're spot on about pragmatism vs. vengeance. I want to kill Gryff and Ludd for very personal reasons, but Gwyn has to die just so the cycle doesn't continue. Nothing too personal beside the fact she's a Whitehill; I can't trust her not to seek her own vengeance even under Asher's watchful eye.
And despite how nice Gwyn seems, she can be really shitty towards you and I have no doubt she would put her family before the Forresters if push came to shove. A Whitehill is still a Whitehill.
Is it really necessary to be that condecending towards me? Kiliing Ludd and Gryff I understand (though I don't agree) it's killing Gwyn that bothers me, someone that actually helped you and you'll kill her because of what she might do. And when I said "They didn't hurt anyone" I meant permantly like killing Rodrik/Asher. And there's no way Ludd brought Ramsay thinking "Oh he'll kill Ethan!" he simply expected an advantage (IMO). What I find petty and villainous is killing Gwyn because of what she 'might' do and because she has the name Whitehill.