Why are the good guys in TellTale games always so stupid?
The finale in Episode 5 of Game of Thrones has a bit of a plothole. Even though Rodrik is there and everything, that entire time he was there the whitehills were magically hidden with...invisibility potions? That they couldn't see the ambush happening before they just gleefully walked exactly half way out of the gate? That no one could escape and everyone thought the best way to survive would be for all remaining people to, one at a time, pull on a super hard to activate wheel to open the gate while crossbow bolts rained down on them from all around?
It just made absolutely no sense, unless the Foresters (save Asher) are entirely incompetent.
It also makes absolutely no sense that the whitehills would wait for Asher to land before killing off Rodrick and his crew, even though it would be infinitely better to kill Rodrick the moment he arrived, then setup a second ambush for Asher- thus ending everyone very easily.
So it's not just the Foresters who are incompetent, but the Whitehills are too. They're lucky they didn't lose more men or lose period.
What do we call it when both sides are painfully incompetent? A plot hole.
In another TellTale game, this exact same incompetence happened in the second-to-last episode. A situation occurred that was a huge plothole where the obvious solution would be to not make such an incompetent decision. Won't give away any spoilers, but it's not exclusive to second-to-last episodes. There are times in which the good guys (people you play) make some of the worst possible decisions or seem otherwise entirely incompetent. (The entire Season 2 of Walking Dead made Walkers out to be these infinitely powerful monsters, very contrary to the tv show, comic, or real life. More than two walkers is apparently overwhelming for even the strongest of characters.)
I know I know, it's hard to write great stories without cutting corners for the sake of good storytelling. Still... it gets a bit tiring when time and time again some of the major resolutions or major events are performed with big plot holes or huge incompetence on the part of your team.
All in a game where you have absolutely no choice other than "Incompetence #1 or Incompetence #2?" or "So your guys were incompetent. What should you do NOW, after the fact?"
Comments
It was never mentioned to Asher that there would be an ambush so he couldn't have known. Rodrik knew Whitehills would ambush Asher, but he didn't know when or where. Plus the Whitehills cut off half of their forces. Plus Rodrik had more numbers, it would be a suicide run for Whitehills to attack him then. You don't know the full story. And the point of that scene was to make player decide the hardest choice ever.
"It was never mentioned to Asher that there would be an ambush so he couldn't have known."
Nothing I said implied Asher should have known.
The plot holes were with Rodrick & the Whitehills.
"Plus the Whitehills cut off half of their forces."
.....that was part of the silliness.
"Plus Rodrik had more numbers, it would be a suicide run for Whitehills to attack him then. "
As oppose to attacking them when it's Rodrik AND Asher rather than JUST Rodrik? That made no sense. Also, Rodrik did NOT have more numbers. The majority on the other side of the gate were Asher's men, not Rodrik's. It made no sense why the Whitehills didn't attack Rodrik when they were alone, then attacked Asher afterwards.
"You don't know the full story."
I know it up to Episode 5, so unless there were invisibility potions involved I don't really understand why you're defending the plot holes. I also guarantee that nothing will explain the plot holes away in Episode 6.
"And the point of that scene was to make player decide the hardest choice ever."
It wasn't the hardest choice ever though. Not even close. It was not at all surprising when it happened, and quite a bit lame of a choice. At that point I honestly wouldn't have cared who I picked. I had more difficulty making ANY decision as Ethan, or many with Asher, than in that final scene in E5.
I think you missed the entire point of my thread. You ignored everything I stated, ignored all the plot holes, and then just implied it all made perfect sense and was all totally legit, and that somehow it's okay to add in tons of plotholes just as long as the choice is "the hardest choice ever" even though it was probably one of the easiest choices.
I mean...how does your post at all contribute to the discussion? You might as well posted a single line: "...NUH UH!! It all made sense!" Nothing you said explained anything in the OP.
Did you miss the part where they dropped the gate and trapped the half of Forrester forces behind it? How is that silliness?
If they attacked Rodrik then, Asher would spot them and attack them from behind. That's not silly? And how do you know Rodrik didn't have more numbers? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
How do you know the Whitehills were alredy there? What if they had a secret camp nearby and moved from there? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
Plot holes? Just because something isn't shown it's not neccesarilly a plot hole. Use your imagination.
And by the vast majority, the final decision was considered the hardest choice in any Telltale game.
YOU. DO. NOT. KNOW. EVERYTHING.
What disappointed the most is that Duncan can be the traitor, why would he work for the Whitehills after what they did to his brother and niece? Does he care about his family or the Forresters?
Because it happened in the first place, for starters...
Except that they would have killed Rodrik before Asher's arrival, then killed Asher after Rodrik was long since dead.
Because if they weren't already there, then it makes even less sense.
None of it makes sense though, unless Rodrick is extremely incompetent- which is totally out of character for him considering he is known for his intelligence in battle.
You clearly are going to mindlessly defend TellTale despite their lazy writing and bad plot holes. This conversation is over. I'll gladly talk to anyone else that isn't going to mindlessly defend TellTale games with absolutely no argument outside of "...NUH UH! ..Was NOT!"
You aren't even giving valid reasoning to argue in defense of TellTale. You're literally just saying "...NUH UH!!!"
I made a thread a while ago, Im just gonna post it here, hopefully it will answer your question.
Well the traitor had none left and well sunk deep into depression which led to his actions.
Sorry if I seem a bit aggresive, I was angry while I was posting it.
Because as we all known, both Duncan and Royland are mentally disabled psychopaths with multiple split personality disorder.
I mean...Duh! TellTale are genius. The M. Night. Shamalamalamalon twist is that they are both absolutely insane despite having no symptoms! They are the masters of hiding their own disease!
That has to be it, otherwise they'd be guilty of lazy writing and having too many horrible plot holes.
I will deny all plotholes, even when they are incredibly apparent in GoT and TWD S2.
Why? Why would I of all people deny all plotholes?
I AM NOT RONNYRULZ, I AM ACTUALLY DUNCAN-ROYLAND. unmasks self twice What a TWIST!
He still had Gared. I'm very curious how Gared will react that his uncle was a traitor and killed.
Gared is actually Ramsey Snow in a Skin-Mask. What a TWIST!
You can pound all you want but your arguments are making less and less sense.
So you would rather the Whitehills attack Asher's AND Rodrik's forces at once? What are you talking about?
Ugh.......... Rodrik had about the same amount of soliders as the Whitehills. EVEN if they managed to overpower Rodrik, Asher would easily finish them off. And did you also forget that the Whitehills were there to ambush ASHER, not Rodrik. They didn't know Rodrik would show up, maybe they changed strategies.
Alredy gave you solid arguments, while you continue to adress me as a mindless Telltale defender. Even if I was, still better than a mindless Telltale attacker.
Mentally disabled psychopaths?! Ok, this is really starting to piss me off.
How is falling into depression, acts based out of grief and sadness a mark of a Psyhopath?!
I literally posted an explaination above your comment, and you call them psychopaths?!
You are starting to drag TWD into this, meaning you do not know what else to say. You lost.
Hey, I spared him. I think Duncan has a lot to answer to Gared.
At this point it's very obvious you're just trolling, pretending you cannot read.
If you are legitimately confused, which you certainly should not be, Re-Read the OP. Re-Read the entire conversation.
I made it incredibly clear that the Whitehills could have much more easily killed Rodrik first, before Asher's arrival, and then setup a second ambush to kill Asher. It would be easier to kill them one at a time than to kill them at the same time when there's just as many of them.
What are you...12? I can only assume you are joking. Is there a way to block users on this forum?
Then the whitehills would have lost either way. If Rodrik had the same number of soliders, and Asher had a lot too, then cutting them in half would make the battle about even. Even if it made sense that Rodrik and Asher were caught off-guard (despite that being contrary to both of their combat intelligence and their characters as a whole) then they would have been able to simply retreat or fight them off as the other half found a way back around. Either way, it would not be this bloodbath that is basically the red wedding all over again.
If you can't understand how this is bad writing, then you have horrible taste and your opinion on what is good writing is completely worthless. This could have been better written by a high school teenager who made C's in English class.
I can only assume you are a kid, given your responses and understanding of the discussion.
I am an adult. I don't like picking on kids, so I will leave you be without any further argument.
Have a good day, son.
You mean Ramsey Snow in a Duncan Skin-Mask.
The Ramsey Snow Skin-Mask fills in all the plot holes and fits perfectly. Very in-character for Ramsey to be the traitor wearing a skin-mask.
Ohh this is rich xD
And I said that the Whitehills couldn't kill Rodrik easily, since they did not even fucking know he would show up. I also said that Asher would notice any fighting going on and thus the Whitehills would have screwed their ambush. I also said that the Whitehills cut off half of Rodrik's and Asher's forces to which you replied "...that was part of the silliness." How's that silly?! YOU are clearly confused, sice you make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Have nothing else to say? You must lower down to insulting (falsely) my age? Well know that I am not 12 and if I was, it would have been even more embarassing for you, to have been owned by a 12 year old.
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What's scary is that you think you gave any argument at all.
I truly, truly hope you are just a kid. If you are, it all makes perfect sense and all is right with the world. If you aren't, then I don't know what to think. If you're an adult, then you scare me as much as you depress me.
Sorry to jump in here but... You are the only one here that seems to be acting like a kid. XD
Well I think we fed the troll enough alredy, let's give him some rest. xD
It's mainly GOT really and all Northerners. Robb, Rodrik, Ned all lords of houses and all died due to their own incompetence
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This isn't getting old at all...
Lol xd the likes tell the whole story.
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Exactly. Thanks.
Their own incompetence, or simply Ramsey Snow's plot armor?
Since I'm not spamming, then no.
I make a thread for entirely different conversations. If you can't grasp how they are different, perhaps you should grow up and realize that just because something seems negative doesn't mean it's identical to all other "negative" threads.
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Well, speaking of that...
Here is a happy reminder!
The ultimate twist would be to promise that half the characters die, then the story finishes with absolutely no characters dying.
That would actually be shocking, because you're literally lying.
IMO, that's a good way to shock people. Start lying to them so much, they have no idea what to believe and instead just watch the story unfold. You know...instead of trying to kill off characters just for shock value or to further the plot in a non-sensible way.
Wow. You just insulted everyone on the forums. Those who are kids and even those who aren't. Congratulations.
What exactly is kid logic?
Seriously, can you tone it down a notch? You're everywhere, and it's nothing but complaints, and you're being pretty condescending, insulting, and demeaning to the others here. At this point, I can't even bother to read your longer posts...
Come over to my little town here in Canada and we'll go fly kites together in a park. It'll be fun!
So you dislike other people exerting their freedom of speech?
You dislike people talking a lot...because they are talking a lot?
This makes absolutely no sense. I would never in a million years tell you that you shouldn't reply to the posts you want to reply to. Reply to every single post in the entire website if you want to. It's your prerogative.
Actually, this is blatantly false. If you weren't a closed minded person who simply ignored people you irrationally dislike, you'd see all the praise I gave this series time and time again.
To each their own, if you want to perceive it that way.
One man's logical reasoning, facepalming of stupidity / bad taste, and honesty is another (insecure) man's condescension, insults, and demeaning-ness.
To be honest, you sound like someone who is proven wrong by another who has a solid argument, and so you cry about how someone pointing out you're wrong is "demeaning".
I asked you to tone things down, not shut up entirely.
And honestly, you're just being annoying. Insulting, demeaning, and rude. I retract my kite flying offer
You want me to post less, not stop posting? I fully understood that. Obviously. Still doesn't change the fact you're an asshole for saying it.
What kind of human being gets pissed off that another is talking on an internet forum in more than just one thread? Are you so nazi-like that you can't stand that I enjoy posting about different topics or that I enjoy replying to people who reply to me?
It's incredibly irrational, verging on hateful for absolutely no reason. What do you have against someone posting in this forum? Does it really hurt you that much that I am "dissing" GoT or TellTale? Kid...you are NOT the company. A slight against them is not an attack on your personal identity.
It's O.K.A.Y.
Calm Down Demarcoa. It'll be okay.
I'm not pissed, I asked you to tone things down. You flew off the handle.
**It's O.K.A.Y.
Calm Down RonnyRulz. It'll be okay.**