Tough Love Thread (Spoilers!)
So the finale is out and it's still fresh in your minds. And you can't help but think that this series was amazing and an outright masterpiece, right? Of course, but even master pieces have flaws and things we don't like, and we're here to pick at them. So share whatever you thought could've been done better, in the series. What should've been avoided, what could've been added. Things that you hoped would matter but didn't and vice versa.
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Well...The only problem I had is the overuse of the hero's death...Or is it? cliché, but still this was unbeleivable i want to headbutt myself soo hard I will forget everything just to play it again the first time
Just some questions...
How did Loader bot survive the whole Helios blowing up?
Also Kroger? Did they both find more escape pods? I thought Rhys took the last one.
In episode 1 Rhys is looking for Fiona with a thing in is hand. How did he know where to find her? Why did they never mention it in their story?
I know I´m nitpicking btw.
That's the point of this thread
One thing that stuck with me was how Athena never used a shield or a gun (I'm not talking about Aspis). Would they really justify it by having Janey throw out Athena's weaponry?
Also I would've liked it to tie more into the Borderlands 2. Like if Fiona was a Vault Hunter, that alone would unlock any other Vault Hunter, not just Athena and Zer0.
Not to sound mean but when the detonator didn't work and it showed Sasha thinking, I almost rolled my eyes cause I knew what was going to happen. Didn't see the Jesus Watch coming
So I'm gonna add now that I know, that Claptrap as the secret Vault Hunter was bit of a troll move, I saw Krieg and Lilith's wanted posters and was hoping, you were going to be given a choice and reward vet Borderlands players but I guess that would've been too much to add in for writing and then recording :P
The only thing I was upset about even a little was that infamous, TellTale stuttering returning in the final fight, it hurt the experience some but that was really my only gripe with the episode.
Rhys' abs, where were they? Huge disappointment.
Yeah telltale games don't run very well. I had to repeat the whole section where you blow up gorty because it froze on a loading screen
Sorry to throw shipping into this, but whoever you chose in the end, whether it was Sasha or Fiona, there should have been a [Kiss] option.
Onto more serious things, there really wasn't much wrong with the episode, the beginning felt a bit slow for me, but it was still great nonetheless. This episode was almost flawless.
i guessed maybe loader bot may have just survived because helios may have acted as a crumple zone and been enough to not totally destroy him, but kroger surviving made no sense.
also i just left finch to die, why was kroger so mad at me (fiona) , i didn't kill him.
edit: plus how did sasha get close enough to the bomb to detonate it, the caravan was boosting away for a long time
Well that's the thing, up until then and as I've been playing through Thrones, those old problems (stuttering, long load times) have never shown up, maybe a second of stuttering in every other episode but nothing as severe as it used to be.
That sucks to hear about a freeze though, never fun when it happens in any game.
Zer0's new voice and August not getting a new outfit.
Otherwise, it was perfect.
I actually had no problems with it, the only gameplay issues were if I did a QTE or chose an answer quickly sometimes, the characters would jump around. I guess I did it too quickly sometimes....
I'd been content with some physical contact, it didn't have to be a kiss, maybe something as little as holding hands as they opened the Vault.
To be fair, Zer0 having a different voice is not entirely unheard of in Borderlands.
The thing in his hand is an ECHO device. In-game, there's a minimap. In-universe, you can be tracked via ECHO.
Example:
Yeah. I just wished it wasn't so...high-pitched.
During the song scene. You can see two more escape pods detach from Helios that crash into each other and go a bit haywire, but they don't seem to be destroyed if I remember correctly. Maybe this is Loader bot and Kroger?
oh yeah, good point
I was super irritated by that scene, and rolling my eyes so hard at the extended Sasha dying scene. And then to be suddenly saved by Felix's pocket watch, a healing device that has never before appeared in the Borderlands universe? Why didn't he give one to Fiona too?
You didn't get to choose, you were just railroaded into Rhys/Sasha, making the dialog nonsensical if you chose not to acknowledge it.
Let's not open that can of worms again.
Plot-forcing an anti-Jack stance on Rhys no matter how pro-Jack you were before.
I understand Jack was trying to kill him (for no practical reason - flaw no.2), but Rhys' complete change in tone when talking to Jack felt really awkward in a previously pro-Jack playthrough, it's like his characterization got thrown out the window along with the Rule Hyperion ending.
So overall just standard Telltale 'your choices won't affect the main story in the slightest, sorry pal'. But I guess I'm not actually nitpicking since those made me genuinely not enjoy this episode at all. In the end maybe TT games just aren't for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There, there
Actually there's a Rhyiona line that you can pick during that scene, it's just hidden a little.
You may be joking, but I really need that rn... :P
As a side note, I would have been much more ok with the way TT handled that plot if in pro-Jack playthroughs they changed Rhys' Helios dialog to some variations of 'why, Jack? I trusted you!' and 'I would have helped you live again, why didn't you let me!', instead of the 'oh I will be so happy to kill you' they gave me. The intro would have been really powerful and heartbreaking in its own way. I just think they effed up the execution of that choice consequence, it felt tacked-on, no different from anti-Jack files.
I found the ending to be quite disappointing.
Don't get me wrong. I loved the series, but this final episode doesn't deserve the heaps of praise its getting. Was it a good closer? Sure. A masterpiece? Hell no
Loader bot surviving the fall? How? Where did he get his equipment? I know it was Helios but how did he scrounge all that together on time?
The watch suddenly turning into a Jesus device? C'mon. It wasn't even previously established at all in any of the episodes. Just "here's a magic watch all of a sudden"
I felt the Handsome Jack scenario was swept under the rug too quickly. All of that resolved in the intro? C'mooooon! Felt rushed and under developed.
Some really shit character pacing here as well.
No one died? Really? Like...apart from the bad guys? a major battle like that and everything ends neat n tidy? Im so sick of forced happy endings
What happened with Athena? She got the crap kicked out of her then suddenly, shes just available for the final battle? Maybe i missed it, but was it explained what happened to her after the bout with Val or did....we just...end up finding her out of the blue?
These aren't small issues,,,these things legitimately make no sense. Good ending but...nowhere near worth the heaps of praise it's getting.
That was missed opportunity. I chose to rule but then had Rhys back out and Jack got angry but when the next episode started, Jack was completely fine with Rhys. Which put me on edge cause I thought something was up. And the scene played out in my eyes as Rhys finally choosing fight over flight. I wish that final talk with Jack was a little longer.
Well I can try to explain a couple things.
Loader Bot has a much higher chance to survive the Helios crash for lots of reason; he's made of metal and not squishy organic material so surviving a hard impact is much more probable for him. All Loader Bot would really need to do is bring himself into an enclosed room (to help lessen the odds of him burning up upon reentry into Pandora's atmosphere) and either hold onto something or wedge himself into a small space. His equipment is an even easier one to answer, obviously he got the suit from the Helios station since we see a guy wearing the same suit and it's be insane to think they wouldn't have those in stock and he got the gun from Jack's ruined office.
The watch being a healing device, got nothing for that really, it's just another deus ex machina device we've seen in countless other movies.
I get ya with not wanting the happy ending trope but this is one of the only TellTale games I've played where this trope actually happens. In almost every other series they've done, plenty of good guys die too. Personally I'm willing to give them the pass on this one since I loved the whole damn thing so much but if you're not then that's fine too, but just remember this is one of the few times they've ever not killed one of our allies.
Athena's bit is easily explained thanks to something Loader Bot mentions after he reveals himself, he says he's been looking for people for months (think Rhys implies months have passed too) so there ya go, plenty of time for her injuries to heal and be combat ready again. And just to clarify, after she gets captured in episode 4, she's brought in for questioning by Lilith for The Pre-Sequel.
You find out about what happened to Athena in the presequel.
The personal healing device thing bugs me a little too, because it's not a tech that was introduced in the main series as opposed to everything else. Though it probably wouldn't be too far-fetched as med kit do exist in BL1. (Though some of the science and mechanism is really up for debate as canon... e.g. newU station)
i don't think it is hard to imagine that there are healing devices made on pandora, it's like a second wind machine or something, you would have thought that with the amount of technology researched into weapons and shields someone would make something that heals people, i mean they have those stimpack things in the game and shield things that make you heal as well
Miklaus is right, there is a way in which Rhyiona can possibly happen. You may want to hop over to the Rhyiona thread
I don't ship them either, I just didn't particularly care for Rhys getting together with Sasha since I wasn't feeling the attraction between those two. It just felt kind of forced - I would have rather had Rhys not hook up with anyone.
One thing I thought could've been done so much better was the last bit with gortys. Here I was expecting this awesome scene of two giants battling it out and destroying stuff and instead i get... Power Rangers? It wasn't even that exciting. I mean, for a vault guardian, the traveler was just weak. It didn't teleport as much as it could've, it didn't have some awesome laser or power other than teleporting. The Destroyer was better than the Traveler, think. I mean, look at the Sentinal! It could change elements, and had an uber form! I seriously expected more from the Traveler. And the the buster sword at the end? IF THAT WAS THERE,WHY NOT USE IT FROM THE BEGINNING?!? And besides Zer0, who else has experience with a sword? Gortys said it herself, she had no combat experience, why can she suddenly use a sword?
Also, the part with Handsome Jack AI. It's already been touched, so I won't say much on it. But, I wanted more of an explanation. If it was a flaw in the AI, Yvette could've elaborated. If it didn't trust you, say it. At least give more dialogue choices. Something other than what we got. I still think the episode was great, but I feel like it has way too much that should've been fixed or explained.
When Athena said it was the biggest monster she's faced:
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Oh ok then, you can pick the "stay away from my sister" option for Fiona and "we're just friends" for Rhys, it didn't look too forced in my opinion (at least in this scene).
thought everyone would be relieved it didn't have a downer ending, this being telltale.
i know i was!
when sasha was dying i was thinking COME ON! it didn't feel necessary, like it was just put in for some extra feels. so i was glad when it was instantly undone. i like sasha.
the many deaths/not deaths had my blood pressure through the roof. loaderbot was right. emotional... rollercoaster...
but yeah, it was a good episode, but something was a bit off, probably beginning in the middle with the present day scenes with the stranger. everything just came together too quickly and... not cleverly.. even the dialogue. like there was a different feel to it compared to the previous episodes. the whole battle at the end seemed like they were just doing it for fun rather than it being a threat they were facing, hence why sasha dying for real would have felt stupid.
was hoping all the unanswered questions and loose ends would come together better. valerie got written off pretty quick. felix didn't factor back into the story in more than a cameo if you spared him. jack's plan was kinda dumb and forced onto you. the opening scene of the series was never given a good context as to how it came about. thought we'd find out how moxxi and the sanctuary crew knew about the gortys project.
just got more questions. like how did rhys fix up an atlas facility single handedly?
why would loaderbot/stranger allow himself to get captured? he coulda wrecked all those guys.
is general pollux still in suspended animation without eyes?
why didn't scooter show and turn out to have not actually died (lol jk)
and as far as connecting to the main series, at the end of dragon's keep, they were getting ready to attack helios, but here it gets destroyed. like, really? that's how hyperion is ended? whatever happened to blake?
and considering the end of the pre sequel, athena was pretty much like nothing happened in regards to that. thought they'd make some sort of allusion, or tie into that.
ahhhh, just being that nitpicky internet douche.
but nah, i love this series. and all these characters.
But Rhys is interested in someone else.... (cough Fiona cough)