Tough Love Thread (Spoilers!)

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Comments

  • edited October 2015

    Personally, I'm happy August got redeemed, I just want him to open up and not be Mr. McGrumpykins/Grumpasmus/Grumpy Mask/Captain Grumptin Walker so much. And get a new outfit.

    Also, Zer0's voice should really be fixed. I'm still wincing.

    Otherwise, 5/5, awesome ep.

    Personally, I wasn't fond of the random timeskip. I would've preferred if they all got together on the spot and had to save the world with o

  • Yo. You. I like you.

    August is literally one of my favorite characters and when I saw the option to get him in the finale, I jumped for it. While his redemption isn't incredible, it's a start and I honestly love August, so I like to believe he slowly becomes more and more attached to the MCs similar to how they did to each other.

    LawmanZero posted: »

    Personally, I'm happy August got redeemed, I just want him to open up and not be Mr. McGrumpykins/Grumpasmus/Grumpy Mask/Captain Grumptin Wa

  • edited October 2015

    August fan here. Brofist!

    OH YEAAAAAAH

    Yes, I like him as much as the others, too. Over time, he developed into a very well-thought out and sympathetic character, which is interesting for a Pandoran gangster. He comes from a very new aspect of Pandoran life too-their mafia, which no one knew the planet had. He's also being built up to become the new Brick, so that's definitely a good thing.

    All I hope for him in Season 2 are these:

    • Have growing power and lots of influence/connections as the new king of Hollow Point.
    • Get a new outfit like everyone else.
    • Have a conflict of his own to deal with in battling other rival gangs.
    • Warm up to the group and actually start being friendly with them, or at least a full return to his other classy persona in Episode 1.
    • Give Rhys his blessing, for the shippers.

    Yo. You. I like you. August is literally one of my favorite characters and when I saw the option to get him in the finale, I jumped for i

  • A lot of hopes there, haha. I would just be fine if he was included in the second season as something better than a cop-out villain and then a minor character. He honestly had so much potential that wasn't fully exploited, I think.

    LawmanZero posted: »

    August fan here. Brofist! Yes, I like him as much as the others, too. Over time, he developed into a very well-thought out and sympat

  • There were a few times when audio was cut off in the middle of a sentence or before a characters line was completely finished, like if you apologize to LB when he's hugging Fiona or if you have Athena on your team she's cut off before she says "Good luck". I noticed this in the first episode of Minecraft Story Mode as well, when Axel was trying to be sarcastic, so I hope this doesn't become a recurring problem.

  • I thought the game was pretty close to flawless except for two points:

    I felt like Jack's plot was wrapped up too quickly if you sided with him the whole way (or chose rule Hyperion either way). In my opinion Telltale could totally have gotten away with it if they just added a few more lines from both Rhys and Jack (Asking why he's a douche stuff like that).

    The other one is that I don't think Vaughn got enough screentime. I know that if you pick two certain choices (which I didn't :< ) he does have more lines and you get to hang a bit more, but I still felt like he kind of got shoved to the side and would have liked his bro-company on Helios.

    Neither of those two does bother me too much to enjoy the rest of the goodness, but yeah if I had to poke hole in one of my favoritegames ever... that would be it.

  • "Team Awesome! And August!"

    LawmanZero posted: »

    Personally, I'm happy August got redeemed, I just want him to open up and not be Mr. McGrumpykins/Grumpasmus/Grumpy Mask/Captain Grumptin Wa

  • My theory is that AI Jack WAS in the middle of a (kind of) Heel-Face turn, and was fully willing to work together with Rhys, but, he then found out about Angel's betrayal and death, and just like that event pushed the real Handsome Jack off the deep end, it now has pushed AI Jack into deeper insanity, where he genuinely believes making Rhys into the first Robo Jack is a good thing. Cause no one can betray you if they are in your control.

    Anyway, I hated how your only option is to call Jack "nuts". If I was Rhys, I would act betrayed and ask Jack this:

    "Why? We were suppose to rule Hyperion together. We were friends, I trusted you."

  • edited October 2015

    There were a ton of technical issues in the finale that kind of put a little bit of a dent in how good it otherwise would have been, at least in my opinion. I still really enjoyed it, but there were some issues that took away from it. For the majority of the episode, the background music/background sound effects overpowered lines of dialogue, making them very difficult, if not impossible to understand at times. Even worse, there were times where a character was speaking, but they were literally making no sound at all. With these two things combined, I definitely had to make use of subtitles in order to understand what was being said. Loading screens were also weirdly long, and the auto save function was used way too much during action scenes which in turn caused constant freezes in the action while it took time to save. These things kind of took you out of the moment. Not sure if Telltale rushed or what, but the episode was pretty sloppy in the technical aspect.

    Edit: I didn't have music for the credits either. Not that it's a big deal or anything.. but it just adds to the pile of technical issues.

  • edited October 2015

    In regards to the game in general, its also kind of apparent that Telltale was just making it up as they went along, and didn't really have a solid, cohesive story line from the beginning. Either that, or they had to have changed it up at some point. It's pretty clear that the guy dragging Rhys and Fiona through the desert was not originally intended to be Loader Bot. It doesn't make much sense that he had Rhys and Fiona explain the entire game's story to him when he was there for essentially all of it. Realistically he would have just asked Rhys and Fionna what happened and then leave it at that. If his whole plan was just to reunite the team, it was kind of stupid of him to drag the two of them through the desert like they were captives. It really wouldn't surprise me if Telltale came up with Loader Bot being the masked man while making the season finale.

    The interactions between Rhys and Fiona throughout their entire time with the masked man (and even before capture) didn't make much sense either, as they were openly angry with each other at first sight when they were reunited by "loader bot", with there being really no explanation for that, considering they hadn't seen one another since getting separated on the Hyperion station. I could see Rhys being angry because he thought Fiona had ditched him, but he didn't even bring it up. Fiona had no reason to be angry at all on her end. Also, at the very start of episode one, Rhys was going through the desert looking for Fiona, even yelling out "Fiona? Come on! we can work this out!" which obviously doesn't really fall in line with everything that happened.

    It really seems like Telltale didn't know where they were going with this part of the story from the beginning, and then they tried to solve it by adding a twist that didn't really make much sense or address the attitude between Rhys and Fiona while being held captive by Loader Bot. All in all I guess I don't really care all that much as the game was more about the characters anyway, and the individual stories of each episode were mostly pretty good. When stringing the whole thing together though, it could have been better done in my opinion. I get the impression that they didn't really have a solid outline for the overall story, which kind of hurt them when trying to piece everything together.

  • edited October 2015

    In regards to the game in general, its also kind of apparent that Telltale was just making it up as they went along, and didn't really have a solid, cohesive story line from the beginning. Either that, or they had to have changed it up at some point. It's pretty clear that the guy dragging Rhys and Fiona through the desert was not originally intended to be Loader Bot. It doesn't make much sense that he had Rhys and Fiona explain the entire game's story to him when he was there for essentially all of it. Realistically he would have just asked Rhys and Fionna what happened and then leave it at that. If his whole plan was just to reunite the team, it was kind of stupid of him to drag the two of them through the desert like they were captives. It really wouldn't surprise me if Telltale came up with Loader Bot being the masked man while making the season finale

    He's undercover, he doesn't want any of them to gather suspicion of he is because he was afraid they might lie to just spare his feelings and true enough they both turn out to be unreliable narrators as they "embellish" a few scenarios. Since he is undercover, he can't act like he was there so he needs to ask them about the ENTIRE story and as a bonus he gets to know them more and understand their moral standing to see if he can trust them or not to save Gortys. I played through it a second time and it makes sense, not a bad twist at all.

    This is from Pierre Shortee (One of the main writers and season leads of Tales) from the Developer AMA thread a while back:

    "We had a shortlist of characters that it could be for a while early on and Loader Bot was on the list. There was definitely an eye kept to staying in front of the fans (lots of forum reading) and making sure that the motivations were strong. Then as the story started to come together we all fell in love with the idea that all this was actually happening because a robot wanted his friends back. We still love that idea."

    The interactions between Rhys and Fiona throughout their entire time with the masked man (and even before capture) didn't make much sense either, as they were openly angry with each other at first sight when they were reunited by "loader bot", with there being really no explanation for that, considering that hadn't seen one another since getting separated on the Hyperion station. I could see Rhys being angry because he thought Fiona had ditched him, but he didn't even bring it up. Fiona had no reason to be angry at all on her end. Also, at the very start of episode one, Rhys was going through the desert looking for Fiona, even yelling out "Fiona? Come on! we can work this out!" which obviously doesn't really fall in line with everything that happened.

    To be honest, the adventure these two went on didn't exactly end in a satisfactory manner so I can easily suspect seeing each other again triggered some bad memories for the both of them. Fiona is mostly angry at Rhys because (depending on your choices) he kept Handsome Jack a secret and didn't tell her and since Handsome Jack is unpopular on Pandora, I understand her reaction especially for what she and Sasha have been through before meeting Felix. Fiona can also be angry at Rhys for deciding to Run Hyperion and trust Jack over the team.

    It really seems like Telltale didn't know where they were going with this part of the story from the beginning

    It didn't seem like that way to me at all. TWD S2 on the other hand....

    Belan posted: »

    In regards to the game in general, its also kind of apparent that Telltale was just making it up as they went along, and didn't really have

  • edited October 2015

    He's undercover, he doesn't want any of them to gather suspicion of he is because he was afraid they might lie to just spare his feelings and true enough they both turn out to be unreliable narrators as they "embellish" a few scenarios. Since he is undercover, he can't act like he was there so he needs to ask them about the ENTIRE story and as a bonus he gets to know them more and understand their moral standing to see if he can trust them or not to save Gortys. I played through it a second time and it makes sense, not a bad twist at all.

    I know that's the explanation provided in the episode, and I'm not saying that it doesn't make any sense at all, but it does make very little to me. The time he had spent with Rhys and Fiona on the journey far outweighs the amount of time he was with them while he held them captive. Its questionable that he would not have had figured Rhys and Fiona out during their time together on the journey, and yet turn around and make a judgement of character just based on their telling of a story that he already more or less knew about. He had been with these characters for almost the entire journey and saw their actions himself. I think its safe to say that he should have known them well enough to simply be able to ask them what happened. Instead, according to Telltale's writing, it made more sense for him to completely disguise himself, completely assume that Gortys had been suddenly betrayed, proceed to violently capture his former friends, make them recount the entire journey even though he only actually needed to hear the explanation at the very end of it.. and then in the end just take them at their word anyway. I mean, if he really just wanted to know what happened to Gortys without bias getting in the way, all he had to do was ask that single question while under disguise. Capturing them was totally 100% pointless. Also, just as another point here, Loader Bot had been so beyond loyal to Rhys that he was willing to die for him. Its really weird to think that he would become violent towards him and just straight up assume that he was involved with destroying Gortys without even seeing him take action against Gortys, or without even having seen him at all really. Sasha and Fiona were the only ones involved in destroying Gortys, and Loader Bot had personally seen them shoot Gortys down, without Rhys even being in sight. Why would Loader Bot just blindly hold Rhys responsible when there was no evidence connecting him to the event? At the time of it happening, he didn't even know if Rhys was alive or not.

    All in all it was just a really lame twist in my opinion.. but Telltale really didn't have much choice at that point, because no other character even had a case for the role. He filled the role by process of elimination, and even then it wasn't a very good fit.

    This is from Pierre Shortee (One of the main writers and season leads of Tales) from the Developer AMA thread a while back: "We had a shortlist of characters that it could be for a while early on and Loader Bot was on the list. There was definitely an eye kept to staying in front of the fans (lots of forum reading) and making sure that the motivations were strong. Then as the story started to come together we all fell in love with the idea that all this was actually happening because a robot wanted his friends back. We still love that idea."

    Well, I guess that proves that they didn't have anything concrete in mind, which is what led to the decision not being very believable in the end. They didn't have any intention of the masked man necessarily being Loader Bot when they first introduced the character. I don't think that was a very good idea on their part, as they didn't really end up lining the two characters up very well, as I explained above. Like I said in my last post, I wouldn't be surprised if they made the decision to have the masked man be Loader Bot in disguise while they were putting the finale together. It sure feels that way.

    To be honest, the adventure these two went on didn't exactly end in a satisfactory manner so I can easily suspect seeing each other again triggered some bad memories for the both of them. Fiona is mostly angry at Rhys because (depending on your choices) he kept Handsome Jack a secret and didn't tell her and since Handsome Jack is unpopular on Pandora, I understand her reaction especially for what she and Sasha have been through before meeting Felix. Fiona can also be angry at Rhys for deciding to Run Hyperion and trust Jack over the team.'

    Like you said though, even if had informed Fiona about Jack before parting ways with her, she is still pissed off at Rhys when they meet up again in the desert. There is open, mutual animosity between them.. almost like the two of them are rivals or something. There is no explanation for that. Plus, this still doesn't explain the opening of the game. Rhys was out in the desert calling out for Fiona, calling out for her not to be angry. Why would he just randomly be doing that..? Especially when considering the amount of time that had supposedly passed between the event of destroying Gortys and the event of Rhys and Fiona getting captured? Telltale just disregarded their setup of the story and went with whatever. Like I said before, it's not a big deal to me, but it definitely threw me off, as I had gotten a much different idea of the story only for them to shake it up with something that didn't really line up very well.

    J-Master posted: »

    In regards to the game in general, its also kind of apparent that Telltale was just making it up as they went along, and didn't really have

  • edited October 2015

    The time he had spent with Rhys and Fiona on the journey far outweighs the amount of time he was with them while he held them captive.

    Not really, He's barely in Episode 1 and he's mostly with Rhys and Vaughn in Episode 2 but is still separated from them at the start. He also stayed in the control room in Episode 3 and he stayed in the Hanger in Episode 4. He was there on their journey but he wasn't there in every single scene.

    Its questionable that he would not have had figured Rhys and Fiona out during their time together on the journey, and yet turn around and make a judgement of character just based on their telling of a story that he already more or less knew about. He had been with these characters for almost the entire journey and saw their actions himself. I think its safe to say that he should have known them well enough to simply be able to ask them what happened.

    It seems like you're forgetting that LB is a robot that doesn't entirely understand how humans work and is constantly evolving emotionally throughout the series especially when he was never meant to be a robot to have emotions, so I can buy LB would get angry and jumped to the conclusion that he was betrayed when his friends are a con artist and a Hyperion employee and Hyperion has a reputation of being a nest of manipulators and liars.

    Loader Bot had been so beyond loyal to Rhys that he was willing to die for him. Its really weird to think that he would become violent towards him and just straight up assume that he was involved with destroying Gortys without even seeing him take action against Gortys, or without even having seen him at all really.

    There's 3 explanations that can be the case for this : LB is acting to not gather suspicion, LB is taking his anger out on Rhys, and it's just slapstick that's not meant to be overanalyzed.

    There is open, mutual animosity between them.. almost like the two of them are rivals or something. There is no explanation for that. Plus, this still doesn't explain the opening of the game. Rhys was out in the desert calling out for Fiona, calling out for her not to be angry. Why would he just randomly be doing that..?

    Rhys was lured out of hiding by Loader Bot and probably figured Fiona was the one that called him out, so he calls for her. The explanation for the discomfort is in Episode 5.

    Capturing them was totally 100% pointless

    I see you bolded this. It's not pointless if you're trying to bring them together when they're separated, that's why he had Kroger capture Vaughn.

    if he really just wanted to know what happened to Gortys without bias getting in the way, all he had to do was ask that single question while under disguise.

    LB cannot ask that question first otherwise Rhys and Fiona gather suspicion of who he is. He's undercover.

    Belan posted: »

    He's undercover, he doesn't want any of them to gather suspicion of he is because he was afraid they might lie to just spare his feelings an

  • edited October 2015

    Not really, He's barely in Episode 1 and he's mostly with Rhys and Vaughn in Episode 2 but is still separated from them at the start. He also stayed in the control room in Episode 3 and he stayed in the Hanger in Episode 4. He was there on their journey but he wasn't there in every single scene.

    .. alright? I never said that he was in every single scene. I wasn't implying that he was always around. I was only saying that he was around the group for a large amount of time. Obviously him dragging Fiona and Rhys through the desert while they recounted a story isn't equatable to him actually spending time with them on the journey itself, be that time off screen or on screen. The point is that he was part of the group and was therefore around them enough to be able to see what his group members were like. That chunk of time obviously outweighs dragging them around the desert for a couple of days at most.

    It seems like you're forgetting that LB is a robot that doesn't entirely understand how humans work and is constantly evolving emotionally throughout the series especially when he was never meant to be a robot to have emotions, so I can buy LB would get angry and jumped to the conclusion that he was betrayed when his friends are a con artist and a Hyperion employee and Hyperion has a reputation of being a nest of manipulators and liars.

    In the moment, sure, I could see Loader Bot being confused and angry.. even though he's a robot. That doesn't account for anything that follows that, though. Again, the point that I was making was that throughout his journey, he should have been able to see what kind of people his group members were. Even if he was a little confused, it doesn't account for the ridiculous plan that he enacted, unless we just chalk that one up to him being a robot who does stupid things. I think we could both agree that's a little weak though.

    There's 3 explanations that can be the case for this : LB is acting to not gather suspicion, LB is taking his anger out on Rhys, and it's just slapstick that's not meant to be overanalyzed.

    I'm really not over analyzing. Its not like while I was playing the game I was doing some sort of deep analysis. It really seems like common sense that Loader Bot would not assume Rhys to be responsible for killing his friend when Loader Bot saw clear as day that Sasha and Fiona were the ones who did it, with Rhys not even being around.
    Your other points aren't necessarily applicable either, as it wasn't necessary for him to capture Rhys if he wasn't holding him responsible in the first place. He could have simply gotten Fiona and Fiona alone if she was the only one in question. Certainly would have been a time saver on his end.. as again Rhys's story had absolutely nothing to do with destroying Gortys.

    Rhys was lured out of hiding by Loader Bot and probably figured Fiona was the one that called him out, so he calls for her.

    I can somewhat get behind that, if the idea is that Loader Bot faked some sort of angry message from Fiona to lure Rhys to a certain spot, where Loader Bot was waiting to jump him. I really don't think that is what Telltale was intending though, as Rhys cautiously looking out for an angry Fiona perfectly falls in line with Fiona's reaction when she first sees him, as well as her attitude towards him from that point forward. That all made sense for the first episode. It doesn't for the overall story, which is why we're having to come up with vague head cannon to try and justify how the story lines up. If the message was not actually from Fiona (assuming that Rhys was even looking at a message, we don't even really know what he was looking at), then it again goes back to the question of why Fiona was randomly showing so much animosity towards Rhys when reunited with him.

    The explanation for the discomfort is in Episode 5.

    As was said by both you and myself though, Fiona acts super pissed off with Rhys even if he had already let them know about Jack.. so that kind of throws your thoughts on this out the window. And even in the case that Rhys never tells her about Jack and she has to find out on her own, that still doesn't line up with how she was acting. I mean really.. how hard did she take that little tidbit of information..? Telltale clearly had something in mind for this and just never did anything with it/ couldn't line it up at the end.

    I see you bolded this. It's not pointless if you're trying to bring them together when they're separated, that's why he had Kroger capture Vaughn.

    It's pointless. Why would he have to violently capture them and drag them through the desert in order to simply try and find out what happened at the vault? There is no reason why he had to do that. Having Kroger capture Vaughn was even more pointless, as Loader Bot knew that Vaughn had nothing to do with destroying Gortys. There was no reason to have him rounded up by a violent criminal. He simply could have dropped by and told the guy the plan.

    LB cannot ask that question first otherwise Rhys and Fiona gather suspicion of who he is. He's undercover.

    He seriously could have just strolled up to them in disguise and said something along the lines of: 'Sup, I was at the vault and saw some epic fight between a giant robot and a monster.. what ended up happening there?"

    Or he could have done the more reasonable, common sense thing and just straight up asked at least one of them what happened, without being in disguise, without having them recount the entire game's worth of story in order to arrive at one little detail at the very end, and without spending so much time putting the plan in action.

    If we're being honest here, Loader Bot went through a ridiculously tedious process to just arrive at one very simple question. Feel free to be happy with how Telltale handled this part of the story, but I personally think it was poorly lined up. I still think it was a good game overall, this is really just the one aspect that I found pretty questionable. I really wish that the masked man would have been someone else, and that there would have been a better explanation/ plan for that part of the story... instead of it being based on Loader Bot just being confused on a little event that happened after five episodes of content.

    J-Master posted: »

    The time he had spent with Rhys and Fiona on the journey far outweighs the amount of time he was with them while he held them captive.

  • edited October 2015

    unless we just chalk that one up to him being a robot who does stupid things. I think we could both agree that's a little weak though.

    Nah, I'm pretty cool with that, there are points in the beginning where Stranger LB isn't so bright with not asking for Fiona's story first, getting confused with who was supposed to finish with what they were doing in Episode 2, and wasting bullets.

    It really seems like common sense that Loader Bot would not assume Rhys to be responsible for killing his friend.

    It's common sense for a human but might not be common sense for an angry and distraught robot. LB needs all the facts and moral understanding from Fiona and Rhys in order to work with them.

    Fiona acts super pissed off with Rhys even if he had already let them know about Jack.. so that kind of throws your thoughts on this out the window

    No it doesn't, Fiona still gives Rhys a hard time in Episode 4 after you tell her about Handsome Jack, I can buy she would still hold a grudge against Rhys especially for what happened on the Helios base afterwards.

    It's pointless. Why would he have to violently capture them and drag them through the desert in order to simply try and find out what happened at the vault? There is no reason why he had to do that.

    LB was bringing them to Vaughn's camp in order to reunite with Vaughn and gather up the resources and allies and form a concrete plan to kill the Vault Monster and while he was doing that he was also looking for one of the Gortys pieces and gathering up Rhys and Fiona's moral understanding and character to se if he could fully trust them to work with.

    Or he could have done the more reasonable, common sense thing and just straight up asked at least one of them what happened, without being in disguise,

    LB couldn't risk being lied to, he figured they would lie to him if he wasn't in disguise. I think I explained this already.

    Feel free to be happy with how Telltale handled this part of the story

    Yes, I will be happy with it, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

    Belan posted: »

    Not really, He's barely in Episode 1 and he's mostly with Rhys and Vaughn in Episode 2 but is still separated from them at the start. He als

  • edited October 2015

    It's common sense for a human but might not be common sense for an angry and distraught robot. LB needs all the facts and moral understanding from Fiona and Rhys in order to work with them.

    It just really makes very little sense that he would even enter Rhys into the equation.. especially when you consider the huge amount of loyalty that he had towards Rhys. And yet Loader Bot goes from that to knocking him stone cold unconscious and dragging him through the desert for something that he wasn't even involved in at all.

    The whole idea that it doesn't have to make a lot of sense because he's a robot is just.. kind of a convenient excuse I guess lol. Again, I just found it a touch disappointing that such a key part of the story was based on Loader Bot doing something that didn't really make a lot of sense.

    No it doesn't, Fiona still gives Rhys a hard time in Episode 4 after you tell her about Handsome Jack, I can buy she would still hold a grudge against Rhys especially for what happened on the Helios base afterwards.

    But it's not like there was some huge amount of animosity about it to the point that they couldn't even stand to be around one another, and holding a grudge is different from flipping out at first sight of the guy. She was kicking dirt in the guy's face when they were first reunited, and later punches him. They weren't even getting along poorly at all on Helios from what I can remember.

    LB was bringing them to Vaughn's camp in order to reunite with Vaughn and gather up the resources and allies and form a concrete plan to kill the Vault Monster and while he was doing that he was also looking for one of the Gortys pieces and gathering up Rhys and Fiona's moral understanding and character to see if he could fully trust them again.

    I understand that, I was just questioning why it was necessary for him to capture them to do any of that. I suppose I can see that making sense if his plan was to force the group to put Gortys together regardless of any answer he got from any of them. If he would have just ran this plan by everyone in the first place though, he would have saved himself a ton of time and effort. Simply by asking to rebuild Gortys, a lot of his questions would have been answered one way or the other.

    Yes, I will be happy with it, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

    Sounds good. I mean, honestly, I'm not even really that unhappy with it as I still thought the finale was solid, and so was the overall story. I just wish they would have done things a little differently in regards to this detail. If they had someone in mind to be the masked man from the very beginning, I think it would have gone smoother and would have made a little more sense in my opinion.

    J-Master posted: »

    unless we just chalk that one up to him being a robot who does stupid things. I think we could both agree that's a little weak though.

  • Guess we just have different perspectives of this story. Alright.

    Belan posted: »

    It's common sense for a human but might not be common sense for an angry and distraught robot. LB needs all the facts and moral understandin

  • I would love to read those as well.

    tamallama posted: »

    Exactly this! The "payoff" I wanted was a bad end for Rhys (because it would be interesting and dramatic) I wanted him to either commit to b

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