Why does Rodrik receive such hate?
-AsherGrin-
Banned
I love Asher (as my name suggests) However, for me, his desire to save his family drove him throughout the entire game. I just couldn't have him start his mission of saving House Forrester--by leaving its lord, and his brother to die. My dear Asher would survive, but would have done so betraying his own ideals, which I could not have, and so he stayed. Anyway, I figured I'd be the majority there. Finishing the episode, I expected to see:
You and 60% left Asher behind.
Obviously, they're both popular characters--but from going on these forums, and the YouTube comments sections daily, Rodrik always seemed to have the edge in popularity. So, imagine my shock when I saw instead:
You and 42.8% left Asher behind.
Now, I'll be the first to admit I cried like a bitch when I left Asher. And every time I see him now, I just go into Arya mode, and drift into my kill list... "Gryff... Ludd. Harys...Highpoint..."
When I watched Let's Plays of people leaving Asher (which are rather few tbh) I can't even watch him die again, so I skip it. Yet what I found is, people seem to not have that problem regarding Rodrik. On these forums, I constantly see little quips about "Rodrik the Unbroken" with a picture of him dead. And it gets a bunch of likes. I must have seen things along those lines in the dozens at this point. How many times have I seen people mock Asher, or his death? None. So that I found that pretty bothersome...
So then, I go onto YouTube. Someone leaves Asher behind, and I go to the comments:
"Why would you save Roderick?? (because nobody can spell his name right for some reason) hes just a cripple and asher is a badass and the army will only follow him."
128 likes
"Saving Rodrick is fucking stupid. he cant fight and he needs to redeem himself."
31 likes
This is a trend that extends to every video on YouTube where Asher dies. Look yourself, if you doubt it. Because I guarnetee you--find a video with Asher dying, and you'll find all the top comments criticising the decision. Go to a video where Rodrik dies, and all the top comments will be how it's the right decision. 
So, on the forums most people saved Asher, and I see a lot of indifference to Rodrik's demise, while none regarding Asher's. I go to Youtube and it's the same. When I left Asher I did so for a variety of logical and emotional reasons, and I died inside doing it. But so many are just like "Erh, why would I save Roderick over Asher?" and leave him to die without giving a shit. That's what upsets me, really. Further on that point, I played the game with two of my brothers. The first one, saved Rodrik, and was so distraught at Asher's death. The second one, saved Asher, and couldn't have cared less at Rodrik's death... "Well, the Forresters need a strong leader going forward, like Asher. It's the only right choice." he said. Then I go on the GoT Facebook page, and check the comments, I mean have a look at this gem:
If only I was paid a dollar for every time I've seen a message like that... And then next, I go onto the Steam forums, and it's yet again the same. Everyone unanimously lauding saving Asher as the only valid choice. Maybe I'd understand it better if this is the viewpoint that's been taken all along--but it's not. This stance just seemed to spiral out of nowhere, since the release of Episode 5. Which I find kinda tragic. It's the same sort of outlandish boredom I find for the Game of Thrones show. Go to any form of forum regarding that, and it's a similar thing.
BLAH BLAH STANNIS IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED FUCKING BREAD BLAH BLAH ROBB STARK WAS AN IDIOT BLAH BLAH DAENERYS IS THE ANTI-CHRIST.
But anyway, I think I've got that frustration off my chest now. It's just I'm tired of no matter where I go--seeing the exact same opinion with no variety. And I'm really sick of seeing nearly everyone say saving "Roderick" is stupid. No it's not.
Rodrik was crippled, but has recovered. Asher is not crippled, but was shot in the leg by a crossbow. They are even. Just look at their death scenes, for starters, they fight the same. Apart from the fact, in the end, Rodrik actually survives a bit longer.
Asher has the loyalty of the pit fighters... yeah, and Rodrik has the loyalty of the Glenmores and the Forrester guards. Plus, Asher's death would clearly motivate his army to fight; and Rodrik actually has experience in leading soldiers in war (e.g. The War of Five Kings) and he's recovered now. So they'll be equally fine here too.
Asher comes home just to die. That's stupid. Well, I don't see how it's anymore stupid than Rodrik finally recovering, just to die.
It's Rodrik's duty to stay behind as lord. Erm, not really... As lord of the house, he is the top of the pyramid, so he's the last person whose duty it is to stay behind. That's like having a King and his Knight holding the gate, and saying, "well it's the Kings duty to stay behind." Like wutt 0_o
So, in the end, that's how I feel. They are both amazing characters, and people. And valid arguments can be made for saving both. But after four months of seeing 90% of discussions on this topic, be so dismissive of saving Rodrik, is so infuriating. I saved Rodrik. I feel it was the right choice for my game, for my versions of the characters, for me as a person and my beliefs. However, I still love Asher--and I cried like a bitch when he died, as I said. And I'm going to do everything I can to avenge him. And I completely understand why people saved Asher. I just wish that same courtesy was granted, in reverse.
Thoughts? :-S
Comments
Oh my god have my babies -AsherGrin- (Maybe not, but STILL)! Thank you, I noticed that too and I was actually writing about it, so I will post it here.
Why can't people just choose who they leave behind?
Haha if you like
But wow, it does feel good to find someone like-minded :-D
But I'm glad you share in my frustration. It's like I saved Rodrik, but do I have a problem with anyone who saved Asher? No, of course not. Nor do any of the other people who saved Rodrik it seems. But nearly all of the people who saved Asher, just seem unable to compute the idea of anyone saving Rodrik--despite their being so many goods reasons to do so, which seem to get ignored. Now, other people, please don't be offended by this... but it just feels like saving Asher is so often the "shallow" choice.
Because people's reasoning behind it is, is so often. He's the better fighter. (Even though there's multiple lines in the first episode, stating how Rodrik was "House Forrester's best fighter by far." And how, in the first episode, he kills like four Freys single-handidly, only getting overwhelmed once distracted by Gared) Plus, he bruises and draws blood against Gryff just with one punch in Episode 4, he can floor him with a cane, he can get up despite the brutal beating he takes in Episode 3, he survives the Red Wedding, even with wounds "that would kill any other man" and so much more, like attempting to murder the son of the Warden of the North. So seeing him is constantly be called weak is as mind-boggling as it is hurtful and infuriating. I mean, look at my name, clearly I'm a huge Asher fan. I may even slightly like him more than Rodrik, but I like to be rational in my decision-making, and look at the actual facts of a matter. And to that end, saving Rodrik just seems the better choice... even though no-one else seems to think so.
Which is the problem. People see Asher as a badass, and Rodrik as a useless cripple. Even though there's so much more to it than that--but hey, most people are superficial and shallow. And I guess we can't do much about that. (Now of course, I know loads of people saved Asher for legitmate reasons, but loads more people didn't... and it's to them I'm referring to here)
Ultimately, they are both badasses, fully capable of ruling House Forrester, and defeating the Whitehills. Thinking any different (which most people do), is just pure stupidity really.
Thanks for your response
I still don't understand. I love Rodrik immensely. He is my favorite character in the game. But I also love Asher too. He is a badass fighter and no doubt a capable leader. But I like to hear more convincing and constructive arguments why people saved Asher than Rodrik, other than he is the better fighter and he has loyalty of the Pit Fighters.
EDIT: BTW great post!
...They can?
My post is just directed at the constant parade of people who think saving Rodrik (or "Roderick" I should say) is stupid, when it clearly isn't, as there's many, many rational reasons to do so. That, dare I say, even outnumber the one's that exist for saving Asher.
This entire post wouldn't even be needed, if people weren't so anti-Rodrik every place of discussion I go.
See, that's my problem as well. It just seems so many people saved Asher because they think Rodrik is weak (which clearly is untrue) and because of the Pit Fighters (even though, Rodrik has the Glenmores and the Forrester guards on his side... and it's pretty obvious, Rodrik will be able to win the Pit Fighters over, just like Asher, in reverse, would be able to win the Glenmores and Forrester guards over, too)
Still, yet again, it's nice to hear comments like yours though
It it so strange. How can anyone call a crippled man, who endures constant humiliation, pain, beating and also having the burden of leading his family and people, save his little brother Ryon, face danger from the Whitehills and Boltons and YET recovers from the same injuries, still able to kick ass and raise again as a warrior weak?
I really, really don't know. It truly baffles me beyond measure.
It's hard to imagine anyone other than Rodrik, Asher included, being able to endure both the physical and mental torment that it would take, being the Lord of Ironrath during the events of the game. I love Rodrik so much as a character, and admire him as a person, so seeing all this be constantly dismissed, while Asher is praised and praised and praised, upsets me a lot. And confuses me too, how anyone can come to the conclusion, Rodrik is weak.
Asher is a badass, yes. Asher is a great fighter, yes. Is he a better fighter than Rodrik? Arguably. But there is no way he is as tough as Rodrik. Like Ortengryn said in Episode 2, "No one would else would have survived these wounds." And I firmly believe that.
I think it's because people are, generally speaking, not all that bright.
Eleana had sex with Roderick right after Arthur died WTF!?
--Umm, nope. If you paid attention, you'd have heard Rodrik say, "We haven't slept much at all these past few weeks." Plus, Asher said, "We've been on a boat for weeks."
Rodrik is a cripple!
--Nope (as you said -AsherGrin-) Rodrik burnt his cane, and you can clearly see him fighting and moving about in the final scene. And the classic thing that everyone loves to forget, Asher gets shot in the leg. So no, Rodrik isn't any physically worse off than Asher is. Though people just can't come to terms with that, whether through denial or stupidity, or both, it's equally as annoying nevertheless.
It's just a classic case of people being shallow. Asher is the extroverted, attractive, blonde, witty rogue character, while Rodrik is the introverted, gruff, dark-haired, brooding character. The majority will always gravitate towards the former. Which is fine, I guess. But when it mutates into thinking Asher is better at anything than Rodrik purely for those reasons, then that really sucks.
In the end, I share the opinion of most of you here. Asher and Rodrik are both awesome characters, and people. But I'm pretty worn down from the constant, anti-Rodrik stance, and the anti-Got stance that is so prevalent in all circles of Telltale games. Which probably lends to my bitterness and cynicialness here. So let's just all make peace on this, undeniable fact:
Asher is a badass. Rodrik is a badass. And they are both epic characters. And there is nothing wrong with saving either of them.
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST! The man survived the Red Wedding, for Christ's sake. No small feat, and dismissing him as a cripple is so insulting and disregards everything he went through and has had to deal with since he somehow lived through The Twins. Literally he was more dead than alive for like a week and the first thing poor guy sees when he wakes up is his dead father's body, then he went straight from the corpse cart into having to manage the whole Ethan was murdered and Ryon was kidnapped and Gryff is a giant ass situation, all while dealing with being in some pretty serious physical pain. That is an unbelievable amount of crap to go through period, much less in such a short amount of time, and has got to take a lot out of a person. I wouldn't blame the dude a bit if he had some element of PTSD going on or spent a little while being upset about his face or bitter that he can't do stuff like he used to (especially now that he needs to do it to save his family) or overwhelmed by everything he's responsible for as lord during a war, but he never spent any time feeling sorry for himself. The man deserves all the respect.
I love Asher to death and I doubt I'll ever fully recover from having to leave him and his gorgeous grin behind, but Rodrik is probably my favourite Telltale character of all time and that's saying something. I really admire his resilience and think he doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves.
I love Rodders but...
You are welcome!
And I completely agree with all you've said. He's so very underrated as a character, and as person, gets none of the credit he deserves. Which is funny, really. Because he's constantly shat on in the game--and likewise, he's constantly shat on out the game, in forums, and comment sections and such.
Because... it's not when people leave him behind that bothers me--it's the complete indifference in which it's done that bothers me. If you feel he should be the one to stay behind, then that's ok. But if you feel like he's just a "crippled bitch" to quote that guy in my post, then fuck you. Like seriously, you're clearly a shallow and ignorant piece of shit. He's been through so much... far more than Asher...and I will not rob him of his vengeance, nor will I let Gryff be the death of him.
But here I go again :P
Anyway, thank you
Thank you for confirming the stereotype.
I think you're exaggerating. As you can see by the comments above, plenty of people love and saved Rodrik. I feel like the choice was almost 50-50. Plenty of people saved Rodrik, he's a fan favourite( as is Asher), maybe I just haven't noticed but I haven't seen a lot of this hate you're talking about. As for the youtube comments, majority of them are made by the most immature people you'll ever meet and would say anything to establish that their right even if what their saying is wrong. As for the likes on the pic of Rodrik's corpse, I think majority of people took it as a joke.
XD I'm gonna go now
I'll admit the problem is 1000x worse in the YouTube comment section, and Steam forums than it is here. Here, it is just mild, whereas there it is very severe.
And I know the majority of people took it as a joke. Which is fine, but my point was: you wouldn't have seen the joke in reverse, with Asher's corpse. And even if you did, I'd doubt it'd even get a quarter of the likes Rodrik's did.
Still, I get your point. I didn't mean to victimise or "woe is-me" the situation, or make a big deal out of it all. I've just got a little tired of all the anti-Rodrik stuff, I've seen over these last four months, and decided to vent it all out here.
So, apologises.
We're besties really though, right?
I remember having a very in-depth discussion on tumblr about who should stay and who should leave at the end of Episode 5. I'd copy and paste all of that but it's so goddamn long.
Let's just say the other guy backed down because I could discount every one of his points.
You don't know how much I ship you x Asher xD
I bet.
I'm still in disbelief the majority of people think saving Asher is the "right" choice. If there truly is a right choice, then it has to be saving Rodrik. I just feel for every reason there is to save Asher, there's two more that exist for saving Rodrik. Or so I (and you) feel, anyway...
People hate rodric because he's a terrible command leader.
No credit for me?
I created that goddamn GIF ;-;
Edit:
Bruh...
Honestly I think it was originally intended for Asher to die there without a choice, and that they added the option of leaving Rodrik later on for player effect. Considering the grunts used while Rodrik is stabbed are from Asher's voice actor and everything.
It feels like in leaving Rodrik there was no point to him waking up on the corpse cart. If you leave Asher he did his job in bringing Beskha & the pitfighters to Westeros, but what legacy does Rodrik leave if he dies? If he's left behind it feels like he existed purely to buy Asher time...
But Rodrik don't have Glenmores since that bastard Ramsay Bolton send them away
Don't hate Rodrik though I still maintain him being alive is dumb. Saving Asher just makes more sense to me.
I would like to hear your arguments for saving Asher. And try not to say that he is the better warrior and has the loyalty of the Pit Fighters.
PS: I love Asher too and I will save him once episode 6 comes out.
Which is game of thrones in a nutshell.
Though that's non canon, so...
Well, it sounds like you've given it a lot of thought...
Ugh I suck at explain things, but I will try my best. Basically it's like this Asher is my favorite character in the game and the only character in the game I really like honestly, so that is the main reason it makes most sense to me. The other reasons are that for one him coming all that way and fighting so hard to get there and recruiting the fighters would just seem like an utter waste of time and cheap. Also I feel like while yes he is a better fighter I also think he is probably a better leader. Definetly a better leader to command what is left of the pit fighters plus I think him being the ones to take down the Whitehill's is better from a story standpoint for me because of his history with that family and him used to being lovers with Gwyn, so him taking down Ludd would be more I guess poetic would be the best word. I have many many other reasons, but those are the main reasons I can think of right now off the top of my head. I would also like to say I'm not against people choosing Rodrik. Just saying I would choose Asher Everytime over him
If that is how you feel about Asher then I won't argue with you about it.
I have thank you
In fact, so much so, I think I'm going to load up my save right now, and save Asher instead, purely based on the genius reasoning you have graciously imparted upon me. So no, thank you.
Why you're welcome good sir. Glad to assist.
Believe me, I love the man to death. I keep hoping he'd rescue me from the real world someday like he'd show up on a white steed in a full suit of armor saying he's going to take me away from all of this. We'd live together in Essos, become badass sellswords, and no one would tear us apart. Life Goals
I'm going to try and be as civil as possible, because I hope we can get some good discussion going in this thread.
But Rodrik waking up on that corpse cart and healing to the point he doesn't need his cane is just as futile if he dies. At least if Asher dies he has the legacy of the pit fighters. If Rodrik dies, he came back to life for no reason.
Rodrik is said to both be their best warrior and a born leader - people 'learn to love him'. This means it's possible the pit fighters will follow him, though it's uncertain whether or not the Forrester bannermen will follow the guy who's been exiled for 4+ years.
I can sort of understand that, though I'm on the other side of the fence. It makes more sense to me that Rodrik, who's had to deal with the garrison for months, 'deserves' it more. It just seems to me that Asher would just be swooping in and doing things that have been set up for Rodrik?
Used to be, though. Rodrik has a functioning relationship with Elaena, who just lost her brother. So having not only her brother die, but her lover too is kind of unfair to her lol.
Personally I'd prefer to follow through the 'I'm going to kill that man' quote from Episode 2, while it seems like Asher was more set on killing Ramsay back in Episode 2.
But yeah, each to their own. I'm just being a douche and trying to force discussion haha
But Rodrik waking up on that corpse cart and healing to the point he doesn't need his cane is just as futile if he dies. At least if Asher dies he has the legacy of the pit fighters. If Rodrik dies, he came back to life for no reason.
To be fair I don't think he should've came back.