Did Telltale Make a Major Mistake? (Episode 6 Spoilers + Poll)
I am of course referring to Mira's determinant status. Telltale surprised me when the surviving brother from Episode 5 actually ended up surviving Episode 6 - perhaps Telltale was aware of how players were perceiving determinant characters always being doomed to be disposed of one way or the other - so I was impressed when they broke this cycle and really took a bold step forward where choices have even more long term consequences than ever before.
This is of course assuming that Telltale hasn't abandoned the Forresters and will continue their story in Season 2 - meaning the surviving brother from Episode 5 could make it into the next Season for at least one more episode before their determinant status finally catches up to them and they die, presumably replaced by Ryon.
Mira Forrester is my personal favorite character and I always saw much potential in her to become a formidable player of intrigue within Kings Landing, her storyline was almost always one of the most exciting and it was nice to see her character develop from the simple handmaiden she started off as in Episode 1.
But now with her being a determinant character who can either live or die by the end of Season 1 - I fear that Telltale has essentially written off her story and so even if she survives the Ice Dragon, she likely won't be a POV in Season 2. Which is a shame really, I mean with Season 5 of the show Kings Landing just became a far more interesting place to exploit with schemes and so its saddening to know that Mira's part in that is all over.
She's either dead or forced into a prison marriage, in both scenarios her brief time as a player of the game is pretty much over.
And I really thought she could reach for new heights in Season 2 - that she would somehow get through it all even if it meant making more difficult decisions.
Did Telltale terminate Mira's storyline too early? Or was it a perfectly realistic ending staying faithful to GRRM's style?
Please vote your opinion over Mira's determinant status here:
Comments
Honestly I don't know. My Mira died but I don't know which is worst, being In a forced prison marriage or dead. I'm really confused about Mira.
I personally think with how they handled Asher/Rodrik, that for season two they'll have the same story arcs just depending on who you chose. Ryon is too young to lead the house, plus he's with Beska. The brothers are the house at this point, and killing them off anytime soon would certainly seal the fate of the House. So hopefully their reign and retaliation lasts c:
I would have really liked to continue Mira's storyline - but after Episode 6 I think its over for her.
Maybe Talia will replace her as a POV, still despite how much I overall loved this finale I don't like how they handled Mira - her determinant status is more or less a death sentence no matter what. But maybe its less to do with her character and more to do with her setting in Kings Landing - would Season 2 actually ignore having a storyline in Kings Landing, now that Mira is gone/still gone?
Does her determinant status work in the story's favor? I suppose as a stand-alone this live or die ending is suitable and the finale is rich with choice based divergences - and as advertised it does appear that those choices do decide the fate of House Forrester.
Its a bit like the ending to TWD S2, after which you were left wondering where Telltale could take the story next, given its multiple endings.
Will keeping Mira alive actually affect the story any further? Will her death accomplish anything? Well her execution does at least hinder Morgryn's plan to dominate the ironwood trade, but with her life I was hoping she could eventually find a way to save herself from being Morgryn's prisoner. But with her determinant status, maybe none of that matters at all... Mira Forrester is finished - was that a good idea for Season 2?
I don't think prison marriage is the right word. If Mira is married to Morgryn in Season 2, and she's the POV, Morgryn will likely die at some point. He's such an ass... Although, Mira is dead in my play through. You're right though. I think it was a mistake making her determinant, just like I think making Bonnie determinant was a mistake, since now they can't just make a sequel to 400 Days. But anyway, I really didn't believe that Mira would die until the second he threw the sword. It was honestly devastating. Even more so than Rodrik/Asher's death, because that one was expected. I literally could not see them killing Mira until at least Season 2 from a story perspective, which was why it was so shocking to me. Mira was actually my least favorite point of view, and I still felt devastated at her death. Although, while I think she really would have a good impact on Season 2, I have to commend Telltale for throwing something at me I really didn't see coming.
The whole time during the final Mira section, I was expecting Margaery to storm in and save me, but nope...
I'm devastated to lose Mira, but she's better (IMO) dying a true Forrestor than living life under the authority of an abusive husband.
This means she's going to either die early or be completely sidelined in Season 2 if she survives Season 1.
I chose to keep Mira alive, I feel like she'll be able to kill him somehow and appoint the blame somewhere else in season two. But I also really like the execution scene with Mira when she stands tall. She was one of my favorites.
not necessarily. I mean, they're doing it with Rodrik/Asher. I'm just surprised they're doing it with another set of characters too...
They made a mistake when they left the Lannisters out of the last episode. Where the hell was Tyrion, his trial, etc?!! Why did we get away with lying to Cersei?! (Or at least me in my playthrough)
There were so many things happening for Mira that to focus on Morgryn was a bad move. Cmon not even a save from Podrik the Pimp? I'm not dissapointed with Mira being determinant if it was set-up better.
I cringe at the realization that Mira's third tier nobility excludes her from a trial under the Kings Law.
Just picture it... the trial of Mira Forrester, even if her fate was sealed anyway.
They've pretty much written her out. We'll be lucky if a surviving Mira makes a cameo in Season 2.
Mira's storyline frustrated me because I never felt as if my choices mattered. They did when I was playing Gared, Rodrik and Asher. But there was so little pay-off to begin with Mira's choices. I think she was there to get a perspective in King's Landing and little else.
Mira will die in s2 since she is not a POV character anymore. I can tell by how she isn't in the main menu just Brother and Gared
With these kinda choices Telltale made, we can have sooooo many protagonists and tentagonists for season 2. (if there will be any... please!)
Lord Forrester + Talia + Sentinel/Traitor
Mira or maybe Thomas... or Sera
Beskha + Ryon
Gared and the bastards
Malcolm
I just dropped this here. What I think of Mira's determinant status is... You could've forge the letter in episode 2, you killed or was accused with killing a guard, you could've stole from Margaery (seal, key, if you asked for her help - I never did though), you were making an alliance with Tyrion (behind everyone's back) and it just happened that everyone thought he killed Joffrey, you asked/kinda forced Sera to get you in the feast (where you were not supposed to attend to), you can disobeye Margaery when you are her handmaiden, you make an "alliance" with Cersei behind Marg's back. I'm not saying Mira deserved to be punished in the end, but for real: these kind of things will backfire you.
I refused to marry that cunt because I thought Mira could escape in another way, when they just executed her in front of me, I paused the game, got up from my chair and I screamed like I was going to die. Just like how Markiplier did when he got someone killed playing Until Dawn.
Yes, I do think it was a huge mistake. And just when things in King's Landing were starting to get interesting, too.
My Mira will survive. I know there is no hope for her to be playable in Season 2, which is a shame, but I will sleep better knowing she wasn't executed in my game.
Question guys? She's from noble birth, correct?
Couldn't she have asked for a trial by combat? Or is that something only the men can do in GoT?
Woman can do to. Both Margaery and Cersei do. And you don't have to be of noble birth either: Dunk demands trial by combat too in the prequels.
So yes, Mira could have asked for a trial by combat. However, she wouldn't have a champion to fight for her.
Well maybe they wouldn't allow her the champion just yet...
But idk guys I think Tyrion owes us a favor for... Idk he just owes us! And he will find us a champion. And Cersei doesn't necessarily hate us anymore. We coulda at least tried.
I'm just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mad right now. Mira was my favorite after Gared... And now she's just... We were badass together for nothing!
I know, I'm angry too
And I'm actually feeling like I could puke since I learned of her determinant status last night.
TellTale could have done much more with her. I don't think the episode was bad overall, but Mira's part was absolutely horrid. Now, nothing short of magic can make it possible for us to play with her in Season 2 (not talking about reviving her, talking about trading places with someone else like Mance and Rattleshirt for the execution), which would be pretty forced. It is a real shame, since after all the neglect she got in this season, I expected her to be neglected less on the second season.
In my opinion she was the most badass forrester in the realms (until Asher came to town) even though her story was kinda neglected all season. She was still the one in the middle of it all, sassing her way through kings landing. I would've hoped that this is a cruel telltale joke that when season 2 starts, we immediately break out of Morgryns clutches and escape to high garden or something, but since she's determinant... AHHHH! (Pulls hair out)
And I still have Margery's damn key from episode 2. I'm ready to use it at any point!
They wrote-off the only "different" POV, the one that was not full of sword fighting. The one about diplomacy, cunning and subterfuge. It was really a shame. Such wasted potential. How many times did I say that regarding this game? "Full of wasted potential". TTGoT, the game of wasted opportunities.
And just when stuff in King's Landing was about to get interesting, too.
By the way, I wouldn't have minded at all playing several episodes as her trying to deal with her situation with Morgryn.
Give how Mira is now determinant, I don't have much faith that we'll be seeing her again if she is alive, especially in Season 2.
Personally I found it ridiculous that Mira's story was railroaded into this direction, her friends abandon her save for Tom who we don't know why exactly he is helping, and who is his master/boss, all while ignoring the key and the decree she had stole, which in the end served no purpose whatsoever. And not to mention that she was the only POV character in King's Landing, meaning that unless anyone else ventures there, we'll never see the place again.
...Come to think of it, Cersei and Tyrion's absence in the finale gives me the impression that Telltale weren't able to give them bigger roles due to not having enough budget.
Like... Idk a Dlc with her and Morgryns wedding days before, during and after.
But she damn determinant. Like I have all these scenarios in my head that would free her from Morgryns grips, continue her badass streak, and still make sense (maybe more sense) for the storyline.
Yeah, me too. I have scenarios in my head where she gets back on Morgryn for what he did, and also scenarios where she convinces him to go easier on her so that she can still play the game. But alas, she is determinant.
So it seems Telltale did indeed make a major mistake with turning Mira into a determinant character - to their credit it was unexpected - but not truly beneficial for the storyline.
Mira was the only 'intellectual' POV in the game, she had the potential to have the most exciting storyline since she's based in Kings Landing - but instead the writers opted to end her tale one way or the other. I just don't know how Season 2 will find a worthy replacement for her... or if we'll even be in Kings Landing at all in Season 2...
In place of this I would have much preferred the death of Asher/Rodrik than the death/determinant status of Mira.
Now I find myself wondering if her execution was a more merciful option than marrying Morgryn and getting completely sidelined from the main story.
Thread: Mira Forrester in Season 2 (Episode 6 Spoilers + Poll)
Determinant characters don't have any major impact on the storyline (well except Rodrik/Asher), meaning the plot the future of the Forresters will be more or less the same regardless of whether Mira lives or dies. Her time playing the game of thrones is obviously over as she will either be executed or be Morgryn's hostage, in either case the effect is probably the same: Mira is defeated.
While one could argue that even though you either win or you die when playing the game, in the option to face execution rather than marrying Lord Morgryn you do end up in a way defeating him since without you his plans to use the Forrester name in order to control Ironrath falls apart, leaving his future in the ironwood business uncertain at the very least.
In choosing to live and sacrifice Tom in your place, that would at least in theory imply that Morgryn intends to have the surviving Forrester lord assassinated so that he as Mira's husband can rule in their place until eventually he has Mira produce a heir. Of course since Mira's determinant now this means that no matter what, Morgryn's plan to monopolize the ironwood market and control Ironrath doesn't go through - either because Mira is dead or his plan is doomed to fail some other way.
Mira's brief tenure with intrigue is over, and so is her storyline as signaled by her determinant status, which means even if she survives into Season 2 her role will be very minor, which means that she has lost all allies and influence she once held and can never get it back. But if Morgryn's plans are doomed to fail, then in a scenario where Mira is his hostage perhaps she does play a role in undermining him. But then what happens to her next to explain her lack of presence in Season 2?
Is she already as good as dead, whether she's alive or not?
Will Telltale afford her one last storyline in the debut episode of Season 2 if we choose to keep her alive - or will she be completely sidelined as insignificant?
Please vote your opinion on Mira's determinant status here:
http://strawpoll.me/6033521
It's so difficult. I don't want her to be dead, but at the same time I am happy that I did not marry Mor. Ruined his plans.
Would they really just erase her in season 2?Maybe I should have 2 saves and when season 2 starts we will see what happens
I doubt even Morgryn has the influence to try and have Asher/Rodkrick assassinated. He will try and play the game, however Mira is in a Sansa Stark situation, in which she has to undermine him. I think we will be seeing Mira in Season 2 (if she's alive) but her segments will ONLY be trying to stop Morgryn to help the House and nothing more. That's it. She won't have any other effect on the House.
Mira was the most underutilized character in any TT game yet. She portrayed as smart, but TT stacked the deck against her by sabotaging any allies she had.
The Rise and Fall of Mira Forrester: The Most Dangerous Handmaiden of Kings Landing.
Somehow I doubt we're going to get a satisfactory pay-off in Season 2 for keeping her alive...
I always thought Morgryn liked to look like he has more power than he actually has. I predict that he will fail regardless of Mira's intervention.
I feel that your poll is very biased considering your labels are "It was VERY good" "Telltale fucked up",
Under-utilized despite such great potential... kind of like Darth Maul from Star Wars.
Telltale could have made so much better use of Mira... the finale had its flaws that could be overlooked but this is just unforgivable.
Not 'very good' but 'satisfactory' - there's a difference - its whether you think Telltale wasted her potential, hence being a major mistake - or being a bittersweet ending that had it coming for Mira and overall made sense in her storyline - it doesn't have to be 'very good' - it just has to be satisfactory, which acknowledges its flaws but still supports it nonetheless.
Hm. Fair enough
Well here's the thing.
Without Mira: Morgryn has already failed and will not have a share in the Ironwood market.
With Mira: Morgryn has a chance, and Mira has her head. She needs to now make sure she can keep herself alive but also stop Mogryn.
Not really. Without Mira, Morgryn still dominates the market through Ludd, which was his original plan, now that Andros is dead.
And really, in the end, as long as Ryon is kept alive, Morgryn will fail. I find it amusing that he was so careless, though: He could have played safe with Mira so that he could still be in the Ironwood business if the Whitehills lost.
Actually in my game Ludd is dead so Morgryn's connections are all gone. I guess it depends on your game. :P
If he works for House Whitehill, not necessarily. Gryff or Torrhen can keep the deal with him.
Honestly I thought for sure that Sera was gonna say something, but she didnt.
Honestly, I didnt feel that bad my face went form shock to ayy lmao.