Did Telltale Make a Major Mistake? (Episode 6 Spoilers + Poll)

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  • edited November 2015

    But now Ludd is also a determinant character, which really leaves me wondering how Morgryn's plans would proceed.

    There's also the fact that Morgryn would genuinely be better off doing ironwood business with the Forresters instead of the Whitehills, since even if Ludd does survive and not betray Morgryn, his house's skill with cultivating ironwood is substandard compared to the Forresters.

    It seems either way, Morgryn's plans won't succeed - unless Mira is alive and all her brothers are dead - under that specific set of circumstances Morgryn could triumph. But of course that won't be happening in Season 2 and Mira will no longer be a POV either, so its a pretty devastating but also unsatisfactory conclusion to her story, considering all the lost potential she could have had in Season 2.

    The termination of her POV storyline feels too premature.

    Abeille posted: »

    Not really. Without Mira, Morgryn still dominates the market through Ludd, which was his original plan, now that Andros is dead. And real

  • Therefore, Mira can try and stop him even when he's alive. Gryff is most likely the only person he could do business with, but at the same time, Gryff is extremely idiotic and quick to anger, he can't necessarily be trusted.

    Abeille posted: »

    If he works for House Whitehill, not necessarily. Gryff or Torrhen can keep the deal with him.

  • His plans will proceed with Gryff or Torrhen on Ludd's place, I assume.

    I think, based on what Morgryn himself said, that he ignored the possibility of making business with the Forresters instead. The marriage proposal seemed to be an afterthought.

    And another thing he didn't foresee.. It is not only Mira's brothers that have to be dead, but also all the Whitehills now that they control Ironrath. Mira's claim means very little right now, and really, I think he is biting more than he can chew.

    Harian96 posted: »

    But now Ludd is also a determinant character, which really leaves me wondering how Morgryn's plans would proceed. There's also the fact t

  • Still, it is business with House Whitehill, who now controls Ironrath and the ironwood market. Control of the ironwood market was what he wanted after all.

    Mira can try to stop him if she is alive, but her death alone doesn't really ruin his plans.

    HarjKS posted: »

    Therefore, Mira can try and stop him even when he's alive. Gryff is most likely the only person he could do business with, but at the same time, Gryff is extremely idiotic and quick to anger, he can't necessarily be trusted.

  • Tbh Mira had so much more potential for the story so I feel like making her determinant was a really big mistake.

    And Mira was always my fave ;-;

  • edited November 2015

    Despite the unused potential of her character, this really was the hardest choice to make in Season 1. Live in a prison or die but let Morgryn lose.

    I let Mira live. I foresaw the bloodshed at Ironrath so I really didn't want to put another Forrester on the chopping block. Perhaps she can break out of her cage in S2, so there's some impact of Season 1 choices in the future.

  • edited November 2015

    But her determinant status does now automatically and severely limit whatever she may do in Season 2.

  • edited November 2015

    I don't think this was a major mistake by Telltale in the slightest. What happened to Mira was bound to happen sooner or later, the thing is she was just a handmaiden, and was trying to outsmart everyone in King's Landing which just doesn't work, she never had any power. In the end it was about choosing to keep your dignity or becoming Morgryn's hostage and keeping your life, not about retaining power or not, because she had none in the first place.

  • Perhaps she can break out of her cage in S2, so there's some impact of Season 1 choices in the future.

    Well, Morgryn did say that he wouldn't keep her literally locked up as long as she behaved, so I agree that there is a possibility that she can break free. Even so, her being determinant still means we can't play as her.

  • I just played through the sequence and felt incredibly disheartened at her determinant status. Didn't realize how much I really liked the character until she was gone.

    Morgryn will definitely be back, and Mira will likely be at his side if you allow it. I refuse to believe they'd let her story end there. It's too abrupt.

  • But do you think there was lost story potential without Mira? Considering all that happens in Season 5, its a shame Mira won't be involved at all.

    Still she was just a handmaiden at the end of the day, she could never truly go on par with other players like Cersei even if she was smarter simply by virtue of her lacking any real power - and without any real power she essentially had no protection from the vipers in Kings Landing - in that regard the premature termination of her storyline does make sense, even if its not a desirable ending, it is realistic (albeit grim).

    And with her status as Lady Margaery's handmaiden also determinant, I suppose Telltale may have written themselves into a corner with regards to how she could continue to stay in Kings Landing for Season 2. So much for Mira slowly rising above the ranks...

    Green613 posted: »

    I don't think this was a major mistake by Telltale in the slightest. What happened to Mira was bound to happen sooner or later, the thing is

  • I was never really fond of Mira's story that much, and considering we didn't really see the purple wedding in an up close POV I'm not really sure show stuff is going to come into play that much to be honest :p That's just my opinion though.

    Harian96 posted: »

    But do you think there was lost story potential without Mira? Considering all that happens in Season 5, its a shame Mira won't be involved a

  • Leluch123Leluch123 Banned
    edited November 2015

    Ok a question if you stay loyal to Lady Margaryn all the time and blame Sera can you surive while not Marrying Morgryn?

  • edited November 2015

    So was Eddard Stark's story...

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    ranger563 posted: »

    I just played through the sequence and felt incredibly disheartened at her determinant status. Didn't realize how much I really liked the ch

  • No.

    Literally the only way to save Mira is to marry Morgryn.

    Leluch123 posted: »

    Ok a question if you stay loyal to Lady Margaryn all the time and blame Sera can you surive while not Marrying Morgryn?

  • Yeah sadly all the signs are telling us that her storyline is hopeless but I'm not buying it until I actually see that happening :p

    I hope most of the dilemma decisions we had to make in the final 2 episodes will be of major impact in season 2. That would be awesome.

    Abeille posted: »

    Perhaps she can break out of her cage in S2, so there's some impact of Season 1 choices in the future. Well, Morgryn did say that he

  • Perhaps. Telltale has at least tried to step up their game and to some extent have succeeded - a lot of minor choices do end mattering in Episode 6 - its obvious they were passionate about capturing the spirit of Westeros and GRRM's style and applied this to Mira's storyline and completely subverted our expectations by doing the unpredictable of not killing off Asher/Rodrik in Episode 6.

    I still wish they would have resolved Mira's storyline differently in a way that would have allowed her to continue as a POV in Season 2, she will be sorely missed.

    Xiphos posted: »

    Yeah sadly all the signs are telling us that her storyline is hopeless but I'm not buying it until I actually see that happening I hope

  • Definitely agree with that. But perhaps Telltale will surprise us in season 2. As far as I can tell from all the choices in the last 2 episodes, there are quite some endings possible regarding the amount of characters alive.

    Rodrik/Asher, Talia, Beshka and Gared alive for sure. Does Ryon always ends with Berska fleeing on a horse?
    Mira and the traitor can be alive or dead.

    I'm not sure about Lady Forrester, she died in my game but is it possible for her to be alive in the end?
    Ludd and Gryff alive or dead.
    Gwyn's state is also entirely situational. In my playthrough she stabbed Asher before running away. I read that in some games she shows up in the epilogue.

    Telltale can really go different routes on this one.

    Harian96 posted: »

    Perhaps. Telltale has at least tried to step up their game and to some extent have succeeded - a lot of minor choices do end mattering in Ep

  • There's a difference between a death having consequence, though, and foreshadowing a bunch of stuff only for the characters to disappear. Morgryn will be back sooner or later.

    Harian96 posted: »

    So was Eddard Stark's story...

  • A part of me did want Asher to marry Gwyn and put an end to the bloodshed, even if it meant becoming Whitehill bannermen.

    Of course with Rodrik's death as a result of Whitehill treachery I had already vowed to exterminate the Whitehills (except Gwyn) and felt kind of sad when Gwyn stabbed Asher (for a moment I was more afraid that she had dipped the blade into Ludd's poisoned wine).

    GoT isn't about sad endings though, its about a grim but bittersweet reality - and in that regard Mira's end does make sense.

    Either she dies as she would have realistically have been (as she's only a handmaiden with no real power going up against more senior players) or her story ends with her as a hostage of Lord Morgryn, she keeps her life but loses her freedom, its bittersweet. Sure there's hope that she might escape one day, I mean if a simpleton like Sansa Stark can do it then surely the same can be said for Mira... not that her odds are looking good.

    Her story is still essentially over, and perhaps it keeps within the spirit of ASOIAF, but its still unsatisfying because of its lost potential.

    Pro: Her determinant end makes sense storywise.

    Con: Telltale could have made better continued use of her, especially in Season 2.

    Xiphos posted: »

    Definitely agree with that. But perhaps Telltale will surprise us in season 2. As far as I can tell from all the choices in the last 2 episo

  • I really wonder what happens to Mira when she agrees to marry Morgryn, I just wish we got some kind of resolution from that choice but its pretty much left open to speculation.

    Abeille posted: »

    No. Literally the only way to save Mira is to marry Morgryn.

  • I literally am glad that I let Mira die. Her last words were Iron from Ice. A true forrester. Eff Morgryn burn in hell.

  • Iron From Ice. I suppose in a way her determinant death protected her family, at least from Morgryn's clutches... I'm still going to make her live though.

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    I literally am glad that I let Mira die. Her last words were Iron from Ice. A true forrester. Eff Morgryn burn in hell.

  • I don't know if what he says depends on what Mira says, but my Mira asked if he would lock her up, and he said that he wouldn't "literally" lock her up, as long as she behaved and gave him heirs. So, I think that's what is going to happen: she is going to follow him around silently and have his babies.

    Honestly, the best I can hope for Mira now is that Morgryn won't physically hurt her again, but I don't know how likely that is.

    Harian96 posted: »

    I really wonder what happens to Mira when she agrees to marry Morgryn, I just wish we got some kind of resolution from that choice but its pretty much left open to speculation.

  • edited November 2015

    I don't think he would... in any way that would make it obvious to outsiders, he needs his wife to look good for his own public appearances and reputation, still I'm sure he'll find other ways to hurt her in order to keep her 'in line'.

    Abeille posted: »

    I don't know if what he says depends on what Mira says, but my Mira asked if he would lock her up, and he said that he wouldn't "literally"

  • No one helped Mira. In any sense. Especially Tom. or Sera (if you helped them when they needed it). I would have just thrown them under the bus if I knew I would get no return from them. The end result is the same. And Mira had, in my opinion, the most interesting gameplay. Mira's story is currently just a huge disappointment. I could have played the 'Game of Thrones ' like a pro or told everyone to their face what I thought of them. The end is still the same.

  • Eh. Taunts and threatens I can take. What really made me gasp was when he pushed her head against the carriage's wall. That is actually the only actual problem I have with him right now, because all the rest (hiring Damien to kill Mira and then trying to get her executed) I can actually understand as being part of playing the game. Getting rid of your adversaries, not very different from what we did to Andros tbh.

    Harian96 posted: »

    I don't think he would... in any way that would make it obvious to outsiders, he needs his wife to look good for his own public appearances and reputation, still I'm sure he'll find other ways to hurt her in order to keep her 'in line'.

  • I'll certainly miss playing the game of thrones as Mira Forrester - and I'm so disappointed with learning she won't be involved in all the exciting events of Season 5.

    Lady Margaery arrested, Cesei arrested, the decline of House Lannister's grip over Kings Landing upon Tywin's death, the Faith Militant being revived, Kings Landing drastically changes in Season 5 and Mira won't be a part of it anymore... its almost tearfully disappointing.

    interitus posted: »

    No one helped Mira. In any sense. Especially Tom. or Sera (if you helped them when they needed it). I would have just thrown them under the

  • Oh I got 2 save files, Mira will somewhat live on. Just not in my canon one

    Harian96 posted: »

    Iron From Ice. I suppose in a way her determinant death protected her family, at least from Morgryn's clutches... I'm still going to make her live though.

  • If you were in Mira's place would you actually choose death over marrying Morgryn?

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    Oh I got 2 save files, Mira will somewhat live on. Just not in my canon one

  • I really hated Mira's fate :( its the worst thing ever I DON'T WANT HER TO BE DEAD OR A SEX SLAVE DD:< I really enjoyed playing Mira maybe because I like the political game for Game of Thrones. But yeah in the end I chose the marrying Morgryn sighs because if telltale does do the out of the extreme and actually give determinant characters a chance Mira Forrester will be back and show everyone how to play the game and help take back Ironrath

  • That scene in the carriage did creep me out... though the background music made it a bit melodramatic. Morgryn obviously has a hidden malicious side to him - he will obviously abuse Mira in some way if she disobeys his wishes but he's also one for keeping up certain appearances.

    I was actually surprised when he didn't strike back at Mira in the cell when you have the option to attack him. To his credit he's a pretty well written antagonist, even if a lot of us did expect him early on to betray Mira. He reminds be a lot of Littlefinger as well.... its too bad he and Mira are essentially enemies (even if their married), they could have made a formidable power couple together.

    Abeille posted: »

    Eh. Taunts and threatens I can take. What really made me gasp was when he pushed her head against the carriage's wall. That is actually the

  • To be fair, Sansa has all the reasons to hate Littlefinger too, but they ended up working well together. If Mira wasn't determinant, I wouldn't put it past TellTale to give us the opportunity to convince Morgryn that she can work with him.

    Harian96 posted: »

    That scene in the carriage did creep me out... though the background music made it a bit melodramatic. Morgryn obviously has a hidden malici

  • I wouldn't be as noble as her, but I'd probably be too prideful to give him the satisfaction.

    I'd probably scream like Tom did.

    Harian96 posted: »

    If you were in Mira's place would you actually choose death over marrying Morgryn?

  • I don't know whether its cowardly or brave, but I'd most likely prefer to continue living no matter the cost.

    If I was the chopping block I think I would mentally shut down... there is a certain degree of freedom and solace to be found in death. Not that I'd actively choose it over life.

    ShaneGrimes posted: »

    I wouldn't be as noble as her, but I'd probably be too prideful to give him the satisfaction. I'd probably scream like Tom did.

  • That's the worst part!!!! I was hoping she would become like a peasant or something similar to Tom, so that when the Church rose, so did we.. Or something close to that.

    Mad that she won't be roaming kings landing right before shit gets hype.

    Harian96 posted: »

    I'll certainly miss playing the game of thrones as Mira Forrester - and I'm so disappointed with learning she won't be involved in all the e

  • edited November 2015

    Anyone else imagining a picture of Mira's head with a mustache, baseball cap, and the words "I got lucky. Real lucky."?

  • Hahahah! Yeah!

    "That woman in the cell in front of mine... She had the facial structure conveniently close to mine. Tom's people helped me change my clothes with her, cleaned and dyed her hair and sent her to be executed in my place"

    Or

    "Tom's people, they had a Red Priest among them. All he had to do was perform a spell that made this woman look like me. Glad she took my advice and stood tall for the execution, nobody suspected a thing"

  • a). Mira already dies off-screen at some point before Season 2

    b). She becomes a minor background character (like Bowen) and is unable to help the Forresters, being Morgryn's hostage

    c). Telltale actually goes the extra mile and produces one last determinant storyline for Mira in Season 2 - of course her determinant status means she will die eventually, probably won't make it past S2 Ep 1.

    Its heartbreaking to know that Telltale has essentially retired her character, she won't be a major presence anymore, and therefore have little impact on future storylines. They can only go so far for determinant characters...

    DawnLight3 posted: »

    I really hated Mira's fate its the worst thing ever I DON'T WANT HER TO BE DEAD OR A SEX SLAVE DD:< I really enjoyed playing Mira maybe

  • You know what bothered me about Mira's tale? We weren't given the option to bludgeon Morgryn or whatever to death with that torch. I mean, if my character is getting executed for killing a man anyway...

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