the guest right in thrones
(if you know about the guest right just jump to the last paragraph) There is a ancient tradition of honor in the 7 kingdoms called the "guest right" which is one of the most basic rules of westeros and one of the most sacred ones, for those who have honor. When you have a guest, be he common born or noble, eats the food and drinks the drink off a host's table beneath the host's roof, the guest right is invoked. Once invoked, neither the guest can harm his host nor the host harm his guest for the length of the guest's stay.
that the same rule that Walder frey breaks at the red wedding making, but he make an excuse that Robb Stark became an werewolf and starts killing everyone, so they had to put him down, and by this statement he did not violate the rule, but instead it was Robb Stark who did it
in the first episode when Ramsay snow comes to see Ethan bend the knee he comes unannounced, and you got the option to offer Ramsay bread and salt, but he refuses, by doing this, when he kills you, he did not violate the guest right
and lastly when you invite the whitehills your hall to eat dinner he in for the guest right, so technically you could not attack him, and the moment you attacked him you became honor-less, and probably would be punish by the Boltons later, it's weird that telltale insinuates the guest right but later totally ignores it at the end (ps great game hope it gets a sequel)
Comments
Bread and salt?
I did notice Asher broke guest right but I think it was intentional and it wasn't ignored. I don't think Asher cares for that sort of thing, he spent a long time in Essos.
Agreed 100%. I hate to say it but it was nothing but lazy writing to ignore such an important part of the lore of the Universe. Also Lord Whitehill would have clearly questioned why there was no bread and salt.
Did the guest right stop Walder Frey?
No, but he was condemned by near the whole of Westeros and guest right is a much more important tradition in the North!
It should have been mentioned than, you think someone would be uncomfortable with it especially since it is a important tradition
Yeah people will condemn you but technically it has no other consequences. Also somehow I have hard time to believe that anybody at the north would miss Whitehills or Boltons.
it's pretty much the food that they eat, somehow it's tradition.
I agree, which is why I planned on calling off the plan from the beginning (I didn't really want Asher to marry Gwyn, it really wasn't because of her). This is not the Forrester way.
The guest right is a sacred law of hospitality. When a guest, be he common born or noble, eats the food and drinks the drink off a host's table beneath the host's roof, the guest right is invoked. Bread and salt are the traditional provisions.
Source: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Guest_right
Ah, I thought bread and salt were necessary for that, but no, it seems like it is any type of food. Well, that's a plot hole, then. Or the Forresters just don't give a fawk.
I would like to point out that people seem to forget that the Whitehills were no guests and as such the guest right has no meaning in the scene. We did not offer them bread or salt, nor did we break any oaths. And even if we did, it was worth it. We set a trap and they sprung it. It's their incompetence. So don't blame yourself.
One of the reasons why the Red Wedding was considered so awful is because of the breaking of the guest right. Now that the Freys have broken it, the guest right is theoretically meaningless (see White Harbour guy and the pie in the books). Therefore, people breaking the guest right in future ie Asher, is not really an issue because the social custom was already at risk. And anyway, all this talk about honour is complete bullshit. One of the points of ASOIAF is that honour is not going to keep you alive. Ned Stark was honourable and he died. Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honourably, and Rhaegar died. Honour is not the be all end all, and it's certainly not worth your life.
just hope that in the next season they point that asher broke the guest right, and that create more problems, if that was telltale intention then it would make sense, since in the first episode they mention the guest right but on the last episode they forget about it
I believe they were indeed invited to celebrate the union of Asher and Gwyn in my game. That's what I got from the scene. And the tables were set for a feast, so I imagine bread and salt was part of it too.
If they were not being welcomed as guests, Asher should be sitting with the Forrester Sword (out of the scabbard) on his knees when they came in. That's how the tradition goes, at least.
But sure, it was worth it. I kinda wish Ludd asked for bread and salt and Asher could have told him where to shove his precious bread and salt.
Actually, Lord Wyman Manderly of White Harbor obeys guest right to the letter.
Custom states that guest right ends when the host gives the guest a parting gift. Lord Manderly does no harm at all to the Freys while they are at White Harbor, and gifts horses to them as parting gifts when they ride for Winterfell.
It is after this he (allegedly) bakes them into pies. This attack occurs after they have recieved their parting gifts, and are thusly no longer guests of White Harbor.
Exactly Maximum
It was war. House Forrester was about to die. I don't think they were worrying about guestright.
Ah thank you! I forgot about that, it's been a while since I've read it. However I think he only did that so he would have the legal loophole so the Boltons and Freys can't take retribution (legally). I mean he immediately after went to Winterfell surrounded by Boltons and Freys but I think at that stage he couldn't have given a fuck about them - the whole asking for the Rat King to be played etc
Legally, it wouldn't matter. You can't kill people willy nilly, Manderly may have kept guest right, he still broke the law though. He murdered the King's men.
The Freys, by all accounts, are fine loyal upstanding citizens of the King, it's against the law to kill them in any way, unless they broke the King's laws or disrupted the King's peace. The Boltons and Freys are completely within their rights to take retribution and the law (more accurately the Crown) would be on their side.
Secondly, guest right is not a law per say, it's more of a religious custom. A man who breaks guest right is not subject to retribution or punishment by the laws of men, he is subject to divine punishment, as he is damned and cursed by the gods. Hence the story of the Rat King, he wasn't punished by the King, he was punished by the gods.
Manderly doesn't care about the law, or atleast not the law under Tommen, he cares about damnation by the gods, and possibly how his fellow Northerners might view him afterwards. Guest right is also sacred in the North, a lord who breaks it risks at the best wariness, and at the worst hostility from his fellow noblemen.
"And no fookin' bread and salt again"