Winter is coming [Gared choice/North Grove]
I see now, that Gregor knew winter was coming.They have been drilling this into our skulls ever since the beginning of GOT. WINTER IS COMING. WINTER IS COMING. NONE OF THIS MATTERS IF WE DON'T MAKE IT THROUGH WINTER.
What he said to Gared, was not about helping House Forrester prevail against the Whitehills in the immediate coming war, it's about the long future.
A place safe from the army of wights,which apparently has some hidden power that will help fight the army of the dead, that is something I daresay no other House besides possibly the Starks might have.
We've listened to it in all our time as fans of GOT, Winter is coming. Houses ,titles and petty wars will mean nothing when the frozen army marches across Westeros.
If you're not true to the promise you made to Gregor, and send Gared south to help house Forrester NOW, you've doomed every last one of them in the future. The North Grove must NEVER be lost.
EDIT : This pretty much confirms what I've been saying,this quote comes from Telltale itself in a recent interview.
The North Grove must NEVER be lost. If you abandon it, you screwed up big time for season 2, I imagine.
Comments
When you think about it, Gregor obviously spent a good deal of time trekking around north of the Wall in the past, if he went so far as to find the North Grove, which is a considerable distance north of Castle Black, and kind of hidden.
So he most likely saw first hand what The Others were capable of, and realized that they were the real threat, which explains why he was so worried that he had to let someone know before dying that the Grove must never be lost. Very few people in Westeros realize this.
I think that he actually send Gared to save his children from the winter.
When you choose to stay to defend the Grove, Gared says "I will stay true to Lord Gregor's dying wish"
So Gared thinks he meant the place, not the children. I believe he meant the place, too.
Yes but that doesnt make any sense becuase The Other only reemerged in the beginning of book 1/season 1. No one in the Westeros knew about them.
I completly agree with you but what's worth the north grove if there's only 3 people guarding it , Sure they'd perhaps save their lives from winter and perhaps preserve their future (if elsera's warriors don't turn on her , and the others don't overwhelmed them. But the forresters down south will not make it .Where in fact if they go down , they could save and help some of them down south like talia , Ryon , even Asher/rodrik survive .nothing keeps them for coming back later .Exept the others of course .... :)And theblack magic elsera uses will not hold for long .Better to use her warriors while she still can and head them south to those Whitehills ! And Sure gregor tought wisely and he was right , but there's no point leaving gared guarding a place no one will come for.
They started getting bolder and appearing further south by that time, but the North Grove is very, very far north from the Wall, and it's kind of a hidden place too. It appears no Crow has ever ventured that far in their patrols, and we kinda had their POV for the appearance of the white walkers.
The twins say in all their years they'd never seen a crow that far north before, so it's very likely Lord Gregor met them before the Night's Watch.
The twins say that they haven't even begun to tap into the North Grove's hidden power, though. They're only beginning to understand it.
If we leave the North Grove behind, we'll never know it's true potential. I think Elsera says her power comes from the North Grove too, and that it's only a little fraction of it.
Besides, if the twins survive through winter, House Forrester survives in a way, whereas many other houses will be annihilated. It's kinda the same position as the Starks, where only a few of the Lord's children are still alive and hidden.
Yes, but still could one man without help venture that far. Even Gared had companions with him.
It would be cool if the North Grove was incorporated into the Books/TV Show in the future
idk, it seems like it could play a big role when Winter arrives.
He somehow managed to venture there with both his bastard children so he could leave them there. So he's probably been there at least twice in his life time. Once to discover it, and then again to bring the children there now that he knew the way.
There's no way we can know what exactly his voyages north were like, though :c
Which brings up the question? How did he managed to make sure that not even Duncan, his closest friend didnt know that he had bastards? Gregor´s deception skill must have been higher than Petyr´s.
He has them Ned Stark deception skillz. Like how no one ever knew who Jon's real parents were.
The whole North Grove storyline made no sense.
Just in response to one point:
1. 'A place safe from the army of wights,which apparently has some hidden power that will help fight the army of the dead, that is something I daresay no other House besides possibly the Starks might have.'
Well obviously it wasn't very safe as the wights attacked and were repelled conventionally. It was also said that the wight attacks were getting stronger and they weren't sure how much longer they could hold out.
Lord Gregor said 'The North Grove must not be lost'.
However, if he understood the North Grove's power, he clearly didn't tell anyone in his own house what it was.
Neither Josera nor Elsera knew about the North Grove's power as they were both happy to leave.
i.e. When Gared made the decision to leave, Elsera didn't say 'No, we can't leave because of X!'
Their powers appeared to be magic unrelated to the North Grove.
If it was so important, why didn't Gregor leave any guards there and how was he expecting Gared to be the stalwart defender that would singlehandedly save the North Grove?
Yes, they don't know how to properly use the North Grove yet, which is why the place doesn't seem safe yet
By leaving though, you're giving up on an asset that might prove to be useful in the future.
They said they'll respect Gared's wish no matter what he chooses, even if he chooses to break his promise to Gregor, which is why the girl doesn't object.
Who knows why Gregor left them there, but clearly it must have had some greater meaning than keeping his affairs a secret from the family, for all the trouble it must have been. Not even the twins know why exactly they were brought there, other than to protect the North Grove. Maybe he expected they would figure it out by themselves with time? Elsera does say "Winter is coming. We need to prepare for the coming war."
Josera's powers are unrelated since he's just a warg, but I'm pretty sure Elsera said her blood magic was made stronger by the Grove somehow, and that she hadn't really explored it's full potential yet.
My thought process was this:
So, the best course of action is to secure the fates of your only potential allies, THEN get them to make tge NORTH grove a strategic priority. If everyone down south is dead, then the hopes for reinforcements is absolute zero.
Say you go south, if Gared manages to fight in the war and save some Forrester members to bring to the Grove, by then, I'm pretty sure the wight invasion on the south will be starting, if not already in progress. Winning that war is not something that will happen quickly. By then, it's very likely that every single inch spanning North of the Wall be covered by countless wights, constantly increasing in numbers, and consider that the Grove is quite far up north too.
It would be a suicide mission to try and get to the Grove then - there's just no way Gared and whatever company he musters from a recovering House Forrester gets past the Night King in the middle of winter. And then what option remains? Holing up back at Ironrath or Highpoint ,if they manage to take them, which are some of the keeps that are the closest to the Wall - they will be among the first houses to be overrun by the frozen army.And so the Forrester bloodline will be completely extinguished. We know from Dany's vision that winter will come as far south as King's Landing, so what hope do the Forresters have?
Consider too that Elsera's little army of mind controlled wildlings won't last very long if you leave the North Grove , she clearly states that this power of hers is directly linked to the Grove.
Elsera keeps saying the Grove is supposed to be a place safe from the coming winter. She suspects Lord Gregor sent them there for a reason besides hiding them away, that he knew something they don't. They might have not discovered it's true potential yet, but I believe they'll somehow eventually find something that will keep the Others away.
I may have abandoned the Grove, against Gregor's wishes, if there was anything worthwhile there for me to bring back South. A pair of bastards, a horde of increasingly uncontrollable zombie people and one bear isn't exactly the sort of Grand Army or mystical power I had in mind while trekking through hundreds of miles of snow and ice. It'd take forever to drag them all back anyway. I decided to squat under that big tree and hope that maybe it does something one day. It has to do something, right? I'd hate to have played Operation - Cotter for nothing.
I refused the ritual and left the grove,I dont really trust gregor to be honest after everything in the game, blood magic is straight fucked up (coming from a guy who makes many pragmatic choices) and with the crazy tree people turning feral there was no reason to stay.
Between the whole "The north grove must never be lost" and then the brother and sister talking about how there was all this magic power there that they had not tapped into yet. I left them there to defend it and took Cotters heart just to make sure it stayed as secure as possible. I don't think going south would've done much good for them anyway. I have a pretty good feeling Gregor knew about the Wights and probably realized it was the only place his family might be safe when the skeleton army comes. Who knows, maybe at the end of it all house Forrester will be one of the few left alive just because of the North Grove.
If you ever watched the show or read the books in the later books/season some of the characters find a cave way up north that Wights cant get into because it is protected by magic. If the Wights go on the murder rampage they most certainly are going to. The North grove might be one of the extremely few places that Wights cant murder rampage through in Westeros if they can utilize the magic, which I have a feeling they will eventually be able to.
Just my 2 cents anyway.
This pretty much confirms what I've been saying,this quote comes from Telltale itself in a recent interview.
The North Grove must never be lost. If you abandon it, you screwed up big time for season 2, I imagine.
Always remember, winter is coming!!
Some people believe Gregor meant for Gared to go bring the twins back, but he wouldn't have risked his twin children's lives to begin with by taking and leaving them at a place so far and dangerous like the North Grove in the first place,if there wasn't a very special reason for it. Their being there is NOT merely because he wanted to hide them from the rest of the family. He trusted his flesh and blood to protect the North Grove because it holds some hidden meaning.
The very act of leaving them there tells us that Lord Gregor felt that the North Grove was something so essential that he was willing to put two of his children's lives at risk for the purpose of protecting it. So it doesn't make sense that he'd suddenly want them to abandon the Grove despite all the efforts and sacrifices he made not to lose it.
Those who are heading south are sending Gared to his death once he gets to the wall.
Our positions boil down to the fact that you have faith that the North Grove has some mystical power, whereas I fear that the group is far too weak to hold against any attacks. The girl's blood magic was already beginning to fail, and other than a polar bear, there was no alternate strength held by Team North Grove.
It ended so ambiguous that either of us could be correct. That small group of wights nearly defeated the best defenses they could muster. What good could they do vs more wights?
I agree that it's difficult to reinforce the north Grove once it has been left, but you are acting on pure faith to think that you had a chance of holding it.
If house forester fell completely, then not only would the north Grove never have a chance of getting reinforcements, but the south would likely be deprived of ironwood through misuse and poor business decisions by the Whitehills
It's impossible to say which of us is right until season 2 (and beyond)