Pit fighters
Is it just me or is Asher's "army" pathetically small? Fruitless effort much..
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Is it just me or is Asher's "army" pathetically small? Fruitless effort much..
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Yeah they sucked a lot. It seemed to me Telltale's best bet was right under their noses. They wanted super tough soldiers that gave House Forrester a chance, while also not suffocating their engine and frame-rate? The Unsullied.
They've already made models for them, plus it would have made Daenerys more likeable. "I cannot spare my sellswords, but perhaps I can give you something even greater." Cue the entry of ten, badass Unsullied soldiers
But I suppose it's done now. At least Lord Forrester and his Sentinel survived [in my game], otherwise I'd be really angry at the whole army situation :P as it is, it's baffling, and definitely fruitless effort, but that's just the way I see it. The "army" is dead. Lord Forrester and his Sentinel aren't. So whatever.
It is rather funny to call twenty pit fighters an army. I have expected an army to number in 100 or at least under that.
Well, at least the small army managed to do a lot of damage against the Whitehills and the Lord Forrester, his sister and Sentinel is still alive in my playthrough.
How many Pit Fighters were there in all the fighting pits? Asher only went to one, and since the chest of gold is determinant he'd probably be able to convince a lot of pit fighters from other private fighting pits to come with him. In the game he would barely have enough to fight off Gryff's garrison in Ironrath, let alone the entire Whitehill army.
I know right. I don't know how many soldiers are required to qualify for an army, but it has to be more than like twenty. (And we're being generous, I think the actual number that come through the gates of Ironrath is like ten)
So many people saved Asher because only he could lead the army, or because he brought the army, therefore deserved to live solely because of that... and the army aren't even an army. Just a few Pit Fighters that Rodrik subdued with one dialogue option, that the Whitehills just killed with reasonable ease, in the end, such wasted potential all around with that arc. Oh well. They're gone now. Here's hoping Gared's North Grove Twenty Good Men marching south [in my game] are more impressive.
That army was underwhelming. At first I thought it was because of of engine limitation but...well, clearly they could render many more since the Whitehill army was much bigger.
I morely say it is a deus ex machina of some sort "We cannot give the Forrester a big army since then it looks like they win". "The Beast" has the biggest let down death also, "THE BEAST", they spoke as if he was the best but he dies for nothing, doing nothing. I say it is bad writing/Lack of ideas and nothing else. To explain how Forrester falls. This is why they get 8 fighters. Never explained either how the Whitehills got in while the gate is still closed. I did not see siege towers or grappling hooks among them. The Ironrath keep is easy to defend, they could easily use the mountaineous enviroment to create traps (boulders, logs, oil) and create ambush parties very safe up on the high hills, mountains and so on and scouts seeing an horde coming from miles away.
I thought it was more like 10 pit fighters. And they would never give us the unsullied because that would actually be an army and would have changed what telltale did with the plot.
They could have done a great many things, but that would not give the 1 overall ending.
Well sure, but when they make us think this will do something, they just pull the carpet from under our feets and laugh at us. It was useless and gave 0 to the story. It was a sub plot of 7 useless characters that could been replaced of defiant Glenmores instead who got away from Mary Sue Bolton himself.
That annoyed me a lot, the disregard for how actual sieges work. The whole of Episode 6 -- especially from Rodrik's POV -- paints the Forrester in such a dire, doomed situation. Which, when approached with logic, doesn't really hold up. The Whitehills have the disadvantage here, not the Forresters, numbers be damned.
Ironrath is a badass, heavily defensible fortress, the codex says so itself. It's built into a mountain pass. As you say, the Whitehills, they have no siege weaponary, no climbing equipment. And the Forresters are equally unprepared. Why have they set no traps? No clever ambush? Why did they not put up any real defence? It annoyed me immensely seeing the Whitehills casually roll up and smash down the gate with their stupid ram. Who allowed them to get close? Where's the boiling oil? (It's even more comical in Asher's play through, where they manage to smash through steel-plated Ironwood in about four minutes, after having been just been ambushed)
The firing of the crossbows is even more hilarious when you think about it. The Whitehills shoot up and just decimate a bunch of Forrester soldiers--even though they're shooting up (and high at that), and they're behind cover. Then the Forresters fire back, and get like two soldiers, barely. Why? Because the Whitehills used their evil powers for increased accuracy! Sighs
I love this game to death, it's my favourite one from Telltale. And I love Game of Thrones to death. But fuck me, does the whole bad winning just because they're bad, get tiring...
Oh I agree. This keep would be a monster to invade. Especially in winter. And the idiots bring no equipment beside a ram, ONE RAM, which can easily be put on fire by pouring oil and fire on it. There is a TON of things Rodrik or Asher can do to prepare. I have never been in war, never will be I hope but even I would try more things out. Sure, the Forresters lost most of their good men at The Twins. BUT there must be a house guard and if they where richer, stronger, bigger than Whitehill and dominating the trade of Ironwood...I say other houses would be more keen to protect them and keep the whitehills off the damn tree since they seems to be legendary idiots of incompetence. Has I been Roose Bolton I would slap my son and send an envoy to protect Forrester in my name instead of letting the morons defend it.
I really hate the Boltons, whom magically crushes Stannis Baratheon, one of the best commanders in the setting. Sure Stannis lost a lot but where did the Boltons manage to rally twice the army with so many horses in winter? That is the GoT and Telltale armour of evil right there, now we got it double applied in Telltales Game of Thrones. Sure is some wicked evil powers when the fortress falls to an army of incompetent morons and they somehow get inside without opening the gate? Their leader can be killed to, this seemingly do nothing. I am pretty sure most of those undisciplined Whitehills would not follow a fourth born son as their leader just out of the blue when Rodrik kills Ludd.
I also love it! But when you love someone or something you also point out the things they should aim to do better at
The siege didn't bug me much. They could have easily waited the Forresters out 'till they had no more resources left.
That would been better. But the way it played out pretty much shows that no one at Telltale studied historical sieges. I do not blame em, but it was bit meh research on that part. Hell the Forresters could escape even, back into the forests and mountains.
EDIT: And no scouts to report? Magically a horde of Whitehills sieging. Isn't the north supposed to be a hell to siege in at this point of time? Atleast Stannis got "fricked" by the winter. And he fought in the plains by Winterfell while Ironrath is to the west of Winterfell and in a mountaneous area. Should be even worse than Winterfells region!
Have to agree with you there.
We wait and see what comes next, I presume in the end the Forrester will retake it. Perhaps another siege.
No matter what Asher shouldn't have felt 10ish pit fighters would have done the trick. I honestly just thought they couldn't show an army boarding the ship because of frame rate.. I was wrong..
What you are saying is quite true, Dillon. I think the point about a castle is to give the defenders an edge against the besiegers. Ironrath should have been able to hold out against the Whitehill army much longer. This is just my guess, but if I was Rodrik commanding the defense, I would probably have put every able men on the wall with bows, crossbows, rocks or anything to throw at the Whitehills. And I would probably make a lot of fire to throw at the ramp or the soldiers. Those who can't fight such as older or weak smallfolks, they should at least be there to support the soldiers by handling more resources, supplies and take any wounded to the Maester.
Then I would leave my Sentinel Royland to command the defenses while I went off with Beskha and pit fighters to do some damage against the Whitehill's main camp. I would try to accomplish three objectives. Rescue Ryon, kill Ludd and either steal or destroy the Whitehill's food supplies. If by chances that Rodrik and his pit fighters managed to accomplish all of these objectives, the Whitehill army would have been severely weakened with the lost of their leader, food and their hostage.
Now back at Ironrath, there wouldn't be any holes in the gate, because I already commanded my soldiers to throw fire at the battle ramp. Even if the ramp was made with ironwood and thus impervious to flame, the men who are ramping it, should either be suffocated by the black smokes from the fires or waste their time trying to put off the fire or catch their breath. Now all the Forresters can do is to win the siege through endurance and since the Whitehills are doing all the work of trying to breach through, they are the one who are getting exhausted and they have just lost their food and leader.
Just my vision of how the siege might have turned out in my imagination.
I like the sound of all that!
It's just, the whole 'battle' feels kinda half-baked in the end. Which is odd considering the long development time this episode had, and the fact that, let's be honest, it's what almost everyone is looking forward to most, going into the episode.
I just wish the Forresters were more pro-active. Watching the crossbowmen stand idle, while they took bolts was so frustrating, watching the smallfolk just stand out in the courtyard, and get mowed down, was so frustrating. What the hell were they even doing? Were they so sick of life at Ironrath, they just wanted to be killed? Either pick up a weapon, and fight, or hide. Running around like headless chicken, waiting to get picked off isn't helpful to anyone.
I enjoyed the battle, don't get me wrong, but it's filled with more could-have-beens than any other scenario in the whole game... and it's especially sour, when you think that's what the whole series had lead up, really. But whatever, our leaders Rodrik and Royland survived the day, so I guess that's good enough for me.
Plus, killing Harys, and knocking Ludd flying from his horse, was pretty satisfying. Though I would have liked some last words, with either Gryff or Ludd, such as Rodrik or Asher asking them where the other is. That would have been awesome.
"Where's your son, Ludd? Huh? Where is he!?"
Well sometimes we gotta appreciate the good that are there than the bad. Even if we are pointing out the flaws, we are just doing it with love.
And it is fun to discuss what ifs.
True that.
This will always be my favourite Telltale game, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to its faults, or to its missed opportunities. Plus, as you say, it's always fun to discuss what ifs.
IronFromIce!