The episode was fantastic! Especially the cinematography and production values; all of which easily outdoes Blackwater, The Watchers on the Wall, and Hardhome. Which is saying a lot. I loved the dialogue too - from the initial exchange between Jon and Sansa and Ramsay, to the scene with Tormund and Davos, wherein the latter find's Shireen's toy. That was really sad... basically, all of those scenes were great, even the stuff in Meereen, I enjoyed all of that just as much as I did the stuff in Winterfell.
Now, that battle was incredible - though its greatest strength also lends to its greatest weakness. Jon was incredibly badass; this was his finest hour. Yet why the hell did Ramsay just sit back on his horse the whole time, then die like a coward, without even putting up much of a fight? Is this the same Ramsay who charged a line of Greyjoy soldiers with just a knife, while bare-chested? Is this the same Ramsay who picked off half a dozen soldiers, to save Theon in Season 3? Is this the same Ramsay who charged Stannis' army, then stayed with just one other guy, to finish off stragglers? It doesn't feel like it.
Going into this, I wanted to see, above all, well, the Battle of Bastards, two sides of the same coin... two badass bastards, one good, one evil, having an epic fight. Yet basically, that didn't happen. The characterisation of Ramsay here was as disappointing as it was inconsistent; he's a sick, sadistic psychopath, a monster, yet he's always been portrayed as fearless (which is usually synonymous with socio and psycopathy), and a capable fighter. Neither of those things were displayed here.
And the reason this is problematic is, by making Ramsay less of an impressive foe, it makes Jon beating him less of an impressive feat. Not to mention, it's just less epic and gratifying, but I digress.
Now, I did love his death by dogs. It was gruesome and appropriate. Poetic justice, too... though, again, I would've preferred Jon to have killed him. (I don't really buy Jon locking him up by the way, but whatever). I've always figured - since the Season 5 rape controversy - they would have Sansa kill Ramsay. As it is, I was basically right, not that I wanted to be. Even still, it was a very, very powerful (if predictable) scene, and I'm glad they used it to finish off the episode. That lends it even more power.
So that's it. The Mereen stuff was phenomenal. I didn't expect to see any of it this episode, but I'm very glad I did. Great writing and plot progression, great use of time, and even better production quality. The battle was outstanding, and I like how they didn't kill off Davos or Tormund for a quick, emotional pull. Baelish saved the day, as expected, however I doubt the long-term effects of his arrival will be as beneficial as the short-term. But we shall see, which I'm very excited for. The way they dealt with Ramsay was incredibly disappointing, from the fact him and Jon never properly fought, to the fact they basically had Sansa kill him. But that's just one aspect of an episode that delivered in every other way. It's by far the best episode of this season (certainly my favourite one) and one of the best episodes, overall, of the entire show.
One of the best episodes this season. While it was predictable, it was still handled well.
Things I loved:
* The battle was filmed s… morepectacularly. The action felt immensely chaotic and terrifying. Possibly the best so far (though it's tough to say without re-watching previous seasons).
* The tactics used in the battle were fantastic (on Ramsey's part that is). Love seeing shield walls done right.
* Ramsey had some great moments this episode, so (unlike Stannis) he didn't go out on a bad note. He played the game well. Rickon's death was excellent, as was Wun Wun's (though I am sad to see them go).
Things I liked:
* Tyrion giving good advice to miss murder-happy.
* Yara and Theon's meeting with team dragon.
* Wun Wun had some truly great scenes. Really felt that they wouldn't have made it without him.
Things I disliked:
* The LOTR-style, third army joins the fight right as the heroes are being overwhelmed cliche (wo… [view original content]
I kind of wish Rickon y'know..spoke? He didn't have a line the entire season.
But man, the Smalljon's death by Tormund? I cheered. So many great things happened. The direwolf Stark banner replacing the flayed man of the Bolton. Ramsay getting what he had coming to him by what was initially the cutest thing ever. Vale ex machina was great as well and I wish Sansa actually told Jon about LF's offer of help so there wouldn't be that unneeded tension.
Oh and props for Yara and Theon for making Dany's story bearable to watch.
I am not going to lie. This is the episode I've been waiting for. This is, in my opinion, at least in my top 3 best episodes ever made. I got Ozymandias up there, and I got this one, and Rains of Castamere.
I have NOTHING bad to say about this episode. It was beautiful and stunning. I even enjoyed Daenerys, and it seems like she might be moving the fuck on from Mereen, FINALLY!
The battle will certainly go down to history of TV, I certainly loved LF in this episode, that fucking smile on his face the first time we saw him in this episode.. Cheers to the death of the Umbers, Boltons and other shit houses.
One of the best episodes this season. While it was predictable, it was still handled well.
Things I loved:
* The battle was filmed s… morepectacularly. The action felt immensely chaotic and terrifying. Possibly the best so far (though it's tough to say without re-watching previous seasons).
* The tactics used in the battle were fantastic (on Ramsey's part that is). Love seeing shield walls done right.
* Ramsey had some great moments this episode, so (unlike Stannis) he didn't go out on a bad note. He played the game well. Rickon's death was excellent, as was Wun Wun's (though I am sad to see them go).
Things I liked:
* Tyrion giving good advice to miss murder-happy.
* Yara and Theon's meeting with team dragon.
* Wun Wun had some truly great scenes. Really felt that they wouldn't have made it without him.
Things I disliked:
* The LOTR-style, third army joins the fight right as the heroes are being overwhelmed cliche (wo… [view original content]
Finally finished watching the episode and I have to say that I loved it. Clearly a 9/10 for me.
Daenerys' scene was so good for me and when she said "Dracarys"... reminded me the days when she was kind of a badass. But her part in general was really good.
Kinda sad about Rickon and Wun Wun's deaths... but more for Rickon, even though I didn't care much about him. I was expecting him to survive, to be honest. Also, the Battle of Bastards was amazing. Honestly enjoyed almost every part of it, however I'm kinda disappointed that the Knights of the Vale appeared, cause it was kinda expecting for me.
And Ramsay's death... so glad he died, but I thought he was smarter than that... at least it was satisfying to see him die by his own dogs. I swear, I wanted so bad to say "The Forresters send their regards" when Ramsay was getting killed by his dog.
Can't wait for the season finale to come around. I'm really hyped for it. ^_^
Im not disappointed. Having something you expected happen is not always a bad thing. I think in some cases, a surprise twist is way over rated. Ill take that over having Jon's entire army slaughtered and Ramsay winning any day. I was just wondering what took them so long but I guess it was to show us the neat way they knocked down the Bolton soldiers' human circle.
Finally finished watching the episode and I have to say that I loved it. Clearly a 9/10 for me.
Daenerys' scene was so good for me and wh… moreen she said "Dracarys"... reminded me the days when she was kind of a badass. But her part in general was really good.
Kinda sad about Rickon and Wun Wun's deaths... but more for Rickon, even though I didn't care much about him. I was expecting him to survive, to be honest. Also, the Battle of Bastards was amazing. Honestly enjoyed almost every part of it, however I'm kinda disappointed that the Knights of the Vale appeared, cause it was kinda expecting for me.
And Ramsay's death... so glad he died, but I thought he was smarter than that... at least it was satisfying to see him die by his own dogs. I swear, I wanted so bad to say "The Forresters send their regards" when Ramsay was getting killed by his dog.
Can't wait for the season finale to come around. I'm really hyped for it. ^_^
Well, they had to address him in some way because he is a Stark, but since he hasnt ever had a story arc, or in the books either really, he had to go. I was sorry about it because he is just a kid and I wanted them to save the brother, but I guess Sansa was right when she said Ramsay would never let him live in spite his dangling him in front of them as bait. Im just glad that he didnt suffer the indignity of being flayed or tortured like some people predicted.
I kind of wish Rickon y'know..spoke? He didn't have a line the entire season.
But man, the Smalljon's death by Tormund? I cheered. So man… morey great things happened. The direwolf Stark banner replacing the flayed man of the Bolton. Ramsay getting what he had coming to him by what was initially the cutest thing ever. Vale ex machina was great as well and I wish Sansa actually told Jon about LF's offer of help so there wouldn't be that unneeded tension.
Oh and props for Yara and Theon for making Dany's story bearable to watch.
Perhaps they did Rickon this season the way they did (with no lines) to put us in Jon's shoes: we are so close to getting him back after all these years, but we never really get to see what kind of person did he grow up to be before Ramsay takes him away from us.
I kind of wish Rickon y'know..spoke? He didn't have a line the entire season.
But man, the Smalljon's death by Tormund? I cheered. So man… morey great things happened. The direwolf Stark banner replacing the flayed man of the Bolton. Ramsay getting what he had coming to him by what was initially the cutest thing ever. Vale ex machina was great as well and I wish Sansa actually told Jon about LF's offer of help so there wouldn't be that unneeded tension.
Oh and props for Yara and Theon for making Dany's story bearable to watch.
Eh, I suppose that's true. To be more honest, I'm both happy and a bit disappointed that the Knights of the Vale appeared, however I'm more happy, cause the Boltons got what they actually deserved, after what they've done.
Im not disappointed. Having something you expected happen is not always a bad thing. I think in some cases, a surprise twist is way over rat… moreed. Ill take that over having Jon's entire army slaughtered and Ramsay winning any day. I was just wondering what took them so long but I guess it was to show us the neat way they knocked down the Bolton soldiers' human circle.
-Let's talk about Meeren.. The dragons just go outside their cave? Why didn't they go out on the first place if they can crush walls like that? Also it seems they don't need riders anymore. There was at least a dragon queen (Rhaenyra Targaryen) and Theon states Euron took the salt throne from Yara? He was elected, damn. That's a bit hypocritcal to say he stole it.
-Davos finally shiting on Stannis. I had the feeling it will happen.
-What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin? It's said to be impossible to take if well defended. The vale just cross it but nevermind.
-Littlefingeus ex machina. Just as in Blackwater and in the fight beyond the wall. Stop coming late please.
-Tormund getting hit by Umber and no one give a shit. :')
An episode well shot, good quality. But Blackwater is still better imo.
No idea why the dragons stayed under the pyramid after being unchained, but I guess they now sensed/heard the battle which made them rush out. And of course Theon and Yara are going to say that Euron stole the throne - he did kill Balon after all. And Rhaenyra is literally called "The Queen Who Never Was", so it's understandable her short reign would be ignored in a conversation like this.
Davos finally shiting on Stannis.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin?
I don't think they had much men holding it, due to the army gathered first against Stannis and now against Jon. Especially Ramsay wouldn't really bother with making sure that Moat Cailin doesn't leak, it's been established that he doesn't really think any southern army is a threat to them. And did they even know that Vale is not an ally anymore? Littlefinger could have just come there like "Hey, we should team up against the Lannisters, because we both betrayed them and they are totally marching here" Or something like that.
My little rant as usual:
-Let's talk about Meeren.. The dragons just go outside their cave? Why didn't they go out on the first place if … morethey can crush walls like that? Also it seems they don't need riders anymore. There was at least a dragon queen (Rhaenyra Targaryen) and Theon states Euron took the salt throne from Yara? He was elected, damn. That's a bit hypocritcal to say he stole it.
-Davos finally shiting on Stannis. I had the feeling it will happen.
-What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin? It's said to be impossible to take if well defended. The vale just cross it but nevermind.
-Littlefingeus ex machina. Just as in Blackwater and in the fight beyond the wall. Stop coming late please.
-Tormund getting hit by Umber and no one give a shit. :')
An episode well shot, good quality. But Blackwater is still better imo.
My little rant as usual:
-Let's talk about Meeren.. The dragons just go outside their cave? Why didn't they go out on the first place if … morethey can crush walls like that? Also it seems they don't need riders anymore. There was at least a dragon queen (Rhaenyra Targaryen) and Theon states Euron took the salt throne from Yara? He was elected, damn. That's a bit hypocritcal to say he stole it.
-Davos finally shiting on Stannis. I had the feeling it will happen.
-What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin? It's said to be impossible to take if well defended. The vale just cross it but nevermind.
-Littlefingeus ex machina. Just as in Blackwater and in the fight beyond the wall. Stop coming late please.
-Tormund getting hit by Umber and no one give a shit. :')
An episode well shot, good quality. But Blackwater is still better imo.
Very true, if we hadn't seen LF already offer the Knights to Sansa, that would be different, but I think almost everyone was expecting them to show up.
No idea why the dragons stayed under the pyramid after being unchained, but I guess they now sensed/heard the battle which made them rush ou… moret. And of course Theon and Yara are going to say that Euron stole the throne - he did kill Balon after all. And Rhaenyra is literally called "The Queen Who Never Was", so it's understandable her short reign would be ignored in a conversation like this.
Davos finally shiting on Stannis.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin?
I don't think they had much men holding it, due to the army gathered first against Stannis and now against Jon. Especially Ramsay wouldn't really bother with making sure that Moat Cailin doesn't leak, it's been established that he doesn't really think any southern army is a threat to them. And did they even know that Vale is not an ally anymore? L… [view original content]
Wasn't you who said they were fine with kinslaying? Also the guys in the Kingsmoot seemed pretty ok with it. The point is Euron never took the throne from Yara since elected (election which come with the fact it's now a realm). You can say he took it from Balon though.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
He does when he says he lost on his own and said he had demons. I agree show Stannis wasn't keen toward Davos (sentencing him to death and all) but he's supposed to be loyal to the very end. He still didn't get Shireen's fate in this scene so I don't know why he changed his loyalty (since the beginning of this season)
Oh, we don't know who are the people on the cross btw. So much theories about that for nothing x)
Technically it's not DXM if it's set up
Everyone knew he was coming but still, it responds to some standards of the DXM, like the thing solving the problem of the hero at the last moment.
No idea why the dragons stayed under the pyramid after being unchained, but I guess they now sensed/heard the battle which made them rush ou… moret. And of course Theon and Yara are going to say that Euron stole the throne - he did kill Balon after all. And Rhaenyra is literally called "The Queen Who Never Was", so it's understandable her short reign would be ignored in a conversation like this.
Davos finally shiting on Stannis.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin?
I don't think they had much men holding it, due to the army gathered first against Stannis and now against Jon. Especially Ramsay wouldn't really bother with making sure that Moat Cailin doesn't leak, it's been established that he doesn't really think any southern army is a threat to them. And did they even know that Vale is not an ally anymore? L… [view original content]
Wasn't you who said they were fine with kinslaying?
Sure, but what I'm saying is that Yara (and Theon I guess) surely isn't fine with it, and possibly sees it even as usurping. Anyway, the point is that they are selling their cause to Dany, why would they say that "well technically he was elected"? Ofc they will explain it in a way that will make Dany sympathize them.
He does when he says he lost on his own and said he had demons.
Well, that's just Davos saying things as they are tbh. Well, the part about "losing to himself" at least - Davos did suggest retreating but Stannis didn't take any of that. And what comes to demons in his heads, I think we can agree he was a bit misguided at the end, being desperate enough to burn his own daughter in belief it would give him the blessing of R'hllor (granted Davos didn't yet know that when he talked with Tormund). In the end, I think his anger will be purely towards Mel for corrupting Stannis.
Oh, we don't know who are the people on the cross btw. So much theories about that for nothing x)
Yeah, I did wonder that too I guess one of them could be Osha? But the others? Hard to say.
Everyone knew he was coming but still, it responds to some standards of the DXM, like the thing solving the problem of the hero at the last moment.
Well, yeah, I think they could've lasted like ten more minutes? But anyway, I certainly take this over some "shock twist" where LF arrives just to be on Ramsay's side or something like that.
She's also called the half year Queen.
he did kill Balon after all.
Wasn't you who said they were fine with kinslaying? Also t… morehe guys in the Kingsmoot seemed pretty ok with it. The point is Euron never took the throne from Yara since elected (election which come with the fact it's now a realm). You can say he took it from Balon though.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
He does when he says he lost on his own and said he had demons. I agree show Stannis wasn't keen toward Davos (sentencing him to death and all) but he's supposed to be loyal to the very end. He still didn't get Shireen's fate in this scene so I don't know why he changed his loyalty (since the beginning of this season)
Oh, we don't know who are the people on the cross btw. So much theories about that for nothing x)
Technically it's not DXM if it's set up
Everyone knew… [view original content]
Am I the only one that thought 'massive CGI mess,' with added gore (people with their intestines) that felt like it was just for shock value, which is strange to say when talking about Game of Thrones? Not to mention that ending, yes, it was set up to some extent, but it still felt more Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.
That said, I really liked Ramsey firing on his own men to create an effective no man's land, that was cool to watch, as was the surrounding them with spears, but following Snow through the very CGI background of people randomly coming up and getting rammed - I know it was meant to be chaotic, but I thought it just looked cheesy. Not to mention cutting the shot every 2 seconds so you can't tell who is who... The battle I liked? Stannis attacking Winterfell. You have this very nice overhead shot of him getting encircled and overrun.
It's not shock value - it's the gritty reality of a battle. It's the horror of war from the perspective of someone in the middle of it. That's how it is there, shocking, messy, gritty, claustrophobic.
Stannis battle last year? Nothing against it, but that's like from the perspective of someone playing a game and watching it from a safe distance. There's not really a feel of tension there imo. But it's not even fair to compare the two, considering budget, time spent filming them, etc.
Am I the only one that thought 'massive CGI mess,' with added gore (people with their intestines) that felt like it was just for shock value… more, which is strange to say when talking about Game of Thrones? Not to mention that ending, yes, it was set up to some extent, but it still felt more Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.
That said, I really liked Ramsey firing on his own men to create an effective no man's land, that was cool to watch, as was the surrounding them with spears, but following Snow through the very CGI background of people randomly coming up and getting rammed - I know it was meant to be chaotic, but I thought it just looked cheesy. Not to mention cutting the shot every 2 seconds so you can't tell who is who... The battle I liked? Stannis attacking Winterfell. You have this very nice overhead shot of him getting encircled and overrun.
Am I the only one that thought 'massive CGI mess,' with added gore (people with their intestines) that felt like it was just for shock value… more, which is strange to say when talking about Game of Thrones? Not to mention that ending, yes, it was set up to some extent, but it still felt more Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.
That said, I really liked Ramsey firing on his own men to create an effective no man's land, that was cool to watch, as was the surrounding them with spears, but following Snow through the very CGI background of people randomly coming up and getting rammed - I know it was meant to be chaotic, but I thought it just looked cheesy. Not to mention cutting the shot every 2 seconds so you can't tell who is who... The battle I liked? Stannis attacking Winterfell. You have this very nice overhead shot of him getting encircled and overrun.
why would they say that "well technically he was elected"
Because... honesty? Nah, you're making a point here aha, though I was just pointing their hypocrisy.
Davos did suggest retreating but Stannis didn't take any of that.
Actually he couldn't. The nightswatch couldn't feed them, they don't have enough food. And winter would be upon them all the way back to Castleblack. As for the battle lost, they should have win seeing it was a mounted vs only spike army, but well, they did loose.
In the end, I think his anger will be purely towards Mel for corrupting Stannis.
That's what the preview shows but with D&D's view on Stannis's character, I'm not sure.
But anyway, I certainly take this over some "shock twist" where LF arrives just to be on Ramsay's side or something like that.
Wasn't you who said they were fine with kinslaying?
Sure, but what I'm saying is that Yara (and Theon I guess) surely isn't fine wit… moreh it, and possibly sees it even as usurping. Anyway, the point is that they are selling their cause to Dany, why would they say that "well technically he was elected"? Ofc they will explain it in a way that will make Dany sympathize them.
He does when he says he lost on his own and said he had demons.
Well, that's just Davos saying things as they are tbh. Well, the part about "losing to himself" at least - Davos did suggest retreating but Stannis didn't take any of that. And what comes to demons in his heads, I think we can agree he was a bit misguided at the end, being desperate enough to burn his own daughter in belief it would give him the blessing of R'hllor (granted Davos didn't yet know that when he talked with Tormund). In the end, I think his anger will be purely towards Mel for corr… [view original content]
I think you know me a bit by now; I like to rant and mention some details about the lore or the books but it doesn't mean I didn't like this episode which was really enjoyable; I really like the mess in the battle, it felt more realistic and less glorified, somehow a WW1's kind of vibe imo.
They took care about battle strategy more than before (they hugely upgraded on this point compared to the battle of Winterfell 1.0) and I also liked how Ramsay wasn't "heroic" as before.
Blackwater is just my favorite, good old memories.
The Wildlings showing their worth: It's good to see how loyal they are and how much they really want to be apart of Westeros
Sansa's Vengeance: Is there really anything more to say? She may be finally be being something else other than a victim
What I didn't like:
Less major character deaths: Apart from Ramsay there's no one really important lost which was slightly disappointing seeing how big this battle was
Starks won too easily: This coincides with barely any loss on their end.This was predictable sadly. Jon Snow has become Superman or John Cena at this point
The Late Little finger: Littlefinger again proves he's using the Starks by sending his knights at the ass end of the chaos
Great episode overall here's my thoughts
What I liked:
CGI was awesome in this episode
All the extras and actors slashing away
T… morehe breach of Winterfell
The Wildlings showing their worth: It's good to see how loyal they are and how much they really want to be apart of Westeros
Sansa's Vengeance: Is there really anything more to say? She may be finally be being something else other than a victim
What I didn't like:
Less major character deaths: Apart from Ramsay there's no one really important lost which was slightly disappointing seeing how big this battle was
Starks won too easily: This coincides with barely any loss on their end.This was predictable sadly. Jon Snow has become Superman or John Cena at this point
The Late Little finger: Littlefinger again proves he's using the Starks by sending his knights at the ass end of the chaos
5 seasons of Starks being fucked in the ass - "Fuck this! It's getting too predictable that Starks always lose!"
Starks have their first major victory in season 6 - "Man this was too predictable, of course they won!"
Well not every story beat can be a surprising twist. But it was still a tense episode and showed interesting development in Jon's and Sansa's characters. Can't speak for anyone else but there were couple moments I actually was worried for Jon, thinking perhaps he dies and is brought back again.
I did love Sansa's character in this episode as for the past 5 seasons she's been sort of a victim. This is Game of Thrones though surprise is one of it's main elements. This would have been a more appropriate time to lose a major character on their side as it would be a traumatic thing for Jon and company to come to grips with and yet it was pretty easily won (compared with the Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome and Wildlings vs Night's Watch) I still think it was an amazing battle nonetheless
Well not every story beat can be a surprising twist. But it was still a tense episode and showed interesting development in Jon's and Sansa'… mores characters. Can't speak for anyone else but there were couple moments I actually was worried for Jon, thinking perhaps he dies and is brought back again.
and thats one thing i thought ramsay kinda implied to sansa... he said something like 'ill always be part of you' or some shit like that. i thought that thats what they were implying but sansa didnt shit about it and she never really showed much of a baby bump.. so idk
Well when you think about it, aside from WotW there haven't really been major deaths in the battle episodes prior to this. Blackwater? No deaths really - Tyrion getting his scar was the closest thing. Oh, and Davos' son, but we hardly knew him. And in Hardhome only characters who had been introduced in that episode died. Battle of Castle Black was really the only one with major deaths.
In this episode we lost Rickon, Wun Wun and Ramsay (and Smalljon) so it's not like no one died. I dreaded that either Davos or Tormund would die. I certainly understand now why Davos didn't die though - his arc with Mel is clearly not finished yet. And Tormund is really the only character left to represent the Wildlings so I also understand why they'd want to keep him alive.
Only reason the battle was "easily" (after massive losses) won was because LF. And while it was a victorious moment in this episode, I would be a bit worried about Baelish's motives in the future - Jon and Sansa are basically in debt for him now.
Overall I'd say that even if the victory was somewhat predictable, they managed to do it so that it didn't feel too much like some kind of "happy ending". Jon and Sansa went both a bit dark side in this episode, they can't trust LF, thousands of men died, Davos and Mel have bad blood, they still need to unite the North before Night King comes, etc. They are still in a shitty situation
I did love Sansa's character in this episode as for the past 5 seasons she's been sort of a victim. This is Game of Thrones though surprise … moreis one of it's main elements. This would have been a more appropriate time to lose a major character on their side as it would be a traumatic thing for Jon and company to come to grips with and yet it was pretty easily won (compared with the Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome and Wildlings vs Night's Watch) I still think it was an amazing battle nonetheless
RIP Ramsay and His fucking plot armour( already missing Iwan Rheon)
Boltons Got Littlefingered.
That moment when Rickon runs straight and you are yelling at the screen:"zig zag rickon zig zag!"
I don't think Sansa is pregnant, it was a metaphore, confirmed by the grin in the end of the scene, Ramsay is a part of her now.
Daenerys hair disturbs me, dragons and chill but her hair is always on point.
Melisandre is fucked.
Jon Snow resembles Ned more than any other Stark children(maybe except For Arya), I'm reconsidering him this season.
Wun Wun break the door!
It scares me that Sansa actually seemed to never care about Rickon. I'm talking about the scene when Jon tells to bury him next to Ned, she even doesn't look at him. What do you think about it?
and thats one thing i thought ramsay kinda implied to sansa... he said something like 'ill always be part of you' or some shit like that. i … morethought that thats what they were implying but sansa didnt shit about it and she never really showed much of a baby bump.. so idk
It scares me that Sansa actually seemed to never care about Rickon.
Nah, I think she did care, she is just thinking rationally. I mean we all pretty much predicted that Ramsay would kill Rickon, because we know what kind of an asshole he is. Sansa knows this too, for obvious reasons.
RIP Ramsay and His fucking plot armour( already missing Iwan Rheon)
Boltons Got Littlefingered.
That moment when Rickon runs straight and … moreyou are yelling at the screen:"zig zag rickon zig zag!"
I don't think Sansa is pregnant, it was a metaphore, confirmed by the grin in the end of the scene, Ramsay is a part of her now.
Daenerys hair disturbs me, dragons and chill but her hair is always on point.
Melisandre is fucked.
Jon Snow resembles Ned more than any other Stark children(maybe except For Arya), I'm reconsidering him this season.
Wun Wun break the door!
It scares me that Sansa actually seemed to never care about Rickon. I'm talking about the scene when Jon tells to bury him next to Ned, she even doesn't look at him. What do you think about it?
That moment when Rickon runs straight and you are yelling at the screen:"zig zag rickon zig zag!"
I don't think that Rickon would escape easily anyways. Ramsay is a master at "archering". Even if he did miss, he'd order his own soldiers to fire arrows at him, which it'd pretty much end the same, no matter what Rickon'd do.
RIP Ramsay and His fucking plot armour( already missing Iwan Rheon)
Boltons Got Littlefingered.
That moment when Rickon runs straight and … moreyou are yelling at the screen:"zig zag rickon zig zag!"
I don't think Sansa is pregnant, it was a metaphore, confirmed by the grin in the end of the scene, Ramsay is a part of her now.
Daenerys hair disturbs me, dragons and chill but her hair is always on point.
Melisandre is fucked.
Jon Snow resembles Ned more than any other Stark children(maybe except For Arya), I'm reconsidering him this season.
Wun Wun break the door!
It scares me that Sansa actually seemed to never care about Rickon. I'm talking about the scene when Jon tells to bury him next to Ned, she even doesn't look at him. What do you think about it?
The mereen battle and everything with it was really good
Ramsey's death was satisfying
The rickon execution was pretty horrible but a dramatic scene
Meh
Davis finding that deer is kinda dumb
Negatives
Jon dodging every arrow, sword and everything else was kinda dumb, it just took me out of the scene completely.
Why did sansa not tell jon about the help she was getting?
Lets be honest the Boltons should have won, tactically they were 10 times better, Jon fell for the trap and got surrounded, they broke formation and were outnumbered to begin with.
and thats one thing i thought ramsay kinda implied to sansa... he said something like 'ill always be part of you' or some shit like that. i … morethought that thats what they were implying but sansa didnt shit about it and she never really showed much of a baby bump.. so idk
I thought the episode was decent
Positives
* The battle was cool I guess
* The mereen battle and everything with it was really good… more
* Ramsey's death was satisfying
* The rickon execution was pretty horrible but a dramatic scene
Meh
* Davis finding that deer is kinda dumb
Negatives
* Jon dodging every arrow, sword and everything else was kinda dumb, it just took me out of the scene completely.
* Why did sansa not tell jon about the help she was getting?
* Lets be honest the Boltons should have won, tactically they were 10 times better, Jon fell for the trap and got surrounded, they broke formation and were outnumbered to begin with.
Comments
I just finished it. So here are my thoughts:
The episode was fantastic! Especially the cinematography and production values; all of which easily outdoes Blackwater, The Watchers on the Wall, and Hardhome. Which is saying a lot. I loved the dialogue too - from the initial exchange between Jon and Sansa and Ramsay, to the scene with Tormund and Davos, wherein the latter find's Shireen's toy. That was really sad... basically, all of those scenes were great, even the stuff in Meereen, I enjoyed all of that just as much as I did the stuff in Winterfell.
Now, that battle was incredible - though its greatest strength also lends to its greatest weakness. Jon was incredibly badass; this was his finest hour. Yet why the hell did Ramsay just sit back on his horse the whole time, then die like a coward, without even putting up much of a fight? Is this the same Ramsay who charged a line of Greyjoy soldiers with just a knife, while bare-chested? Is this the same Ramsay who picked off half a dozen soldiers, to save Theon in Season 3? Is this the same Ramsay who charged Stannis' army, then stayed with just one other guy, to finish off stragglers? It doesn't feel like it.
Going into this, I wanted to see, above all, well, the Battle of Bastards, two sides of the same coin... two badass bastards, one good, one evil, having an epic fight. Yet basically, that didn't happen. The characterisation of Ramsay here was as disappointing as it was inconsistent; he's a sick, sadistic psychopath, a monster, yet he's always been portrayed as fearless (which is usually synonymous with socio and psycopathy), and a capable fighter. Neither of those things were displayed here.
And the reason this is problematic is, by making Ramsay less of an impressive foe, it makes Jon beating him less of an impressive feat. Not to mention, it's just less epic and gratifying, but I digress.
Now, I did love his death by dogs. It was gruesome and appropriate. Poetic justice, too... though, again, I would've preferred Jon to have killed him. (I don't really buy Jon locking him up by the way, but whatever). I've always figured - since the Season 5 rape controversy - they would have Sansa kill Ramsay. As it is, I was basically right, not that I wanted to be. Even still, it was a very, very powerful (if predictable) scene, and I'm glad they used it to finish off the episode. That lends it even more power.
So that's it. The Mereen stuff was phenomenal. I didn't expect to see any of it this episode, but I'm very glad I did. Great writing and plot progression, great use of time, and even better production quality. The battle was outstanding, and I like how they didn't kill off Davos or Tormund for a quick, emotional pull. Baelish saved the day, as expected, however I doubt the long-term effects of his arrival will be as beneficial as the short-term. But we shall see, which I'm very excited for. The way they dealt with Ramsay was incredibly disappointing, from the fact him and Jon never properly fought, to the fact they basically had Sansa kill him. But that's just one aspect of an episode that delivered in every other way. It's by far the best episode of this season (certainly my favourite one) and one of the best episodes, overall, of the entire show.
I look forward to the finale.
They wanted to showcase the role of luck in a battle. Jon wasn't the only one who avoided the spears and arrows - he's just the one we followed.
I kind of wish Rickon y'know..spoke? He didn't have a line the entire season.
But man, the Smalljon's death by Tormund? I cheered. So many great things happened. The direwolf Stark banner replacing the flayed man of the Bolton. Ramsay getting what he had coming to him by what was initially the cutest thing ever. Vale ex machina was great as well and I wish Sansa actually told Jon about LF's offer of help so there wouldn't be that unneeded tension.
Oh and props for Yara and Theon for making Dany's story bearable to watch.
I am not going to lie. This is the episode I've been waiting for. This is, in my opinion, at least in my top 3 best episodes ever made. I got Ozymandias up there, and I got this one, and Rains of Castamere.
I have NOTHING bad to say about this episode. It was beautiful and stunning. I even enjoyed Daenerys, and it seems like she might be moving the fuck on from Mereen, FINALLY!
The battle will certainly go down to history of TV, I certainly loved LF in this episode, that fucking smile on his face the first time we saw him in this episode.. Cheers to the death of the Umbers, Boltons and other shit houses.
10/10 Fucking cheers to this episode.
Littlefinger confirmed for being a magician.
Finally finished watching the episode and I have to say that I loved it. Clearly a 9/10 for me.
Daenerys' scene was so good for me and when she said "Dracarys"... reminded me the days when she was kind of a badass. But her part in general was really good.
Kinda sad about Rickon and Wun Wun's deaths... but more for Rickon, even though I didn't care much about him. I was expecting him to survive, to be honest. Also, the Battle of Bastards was amazing. Honestly enjoyed almost every part of it, however I'm kinda disappointed that the Knights of the Vale appeared, cause it was kinda expecting for me.
And Ramsay's death... so glad he died, but I thought he was smarter than that... at least it was satisfying to see him die by his own dogs. I swear, I wanted so bad to say "The Forresters send their regards" when Ramsay was getting killed by his dog.
Can't wait for the season finale to come around. I'm really hyped for it. ^_^
That one long shot where Jon was slicing his way through the Bolton cavalry was better than most fight scenes in $200+ million movies.
Daenerys riding her dragon looks way better here than they did previously.
Im not disappointed. Having something you expected happen is not always a bad thing. I think in some cases, a surprise twist is way over rated. Ill take that over having Jon's entire army slaughtered and Ramsay winning any day. I was just wondering what took them so long but I guess it was to show us the neat way they knocked down the Bolton soldiers' human circle.
Well, they had to address him in some way because he is a Stark, but since he hasnt ever had a story arc, or in the books either really, he had to go. I was sorry about it because he is just a kid and I wanted them to save the brother, but I guess Sansa was right when she said Ramsay would never let him live in spite his dangling him in front of them as bait. Im just glad that he didnt suffer the indignity of being flayed or tortured like some people predicted.
Perhaps they did Rickon this season the way they did (with no lines) to put us in Jon's shoes: we are so close to getting him back after all these years, but we never really get to see what kind of person did he grow up to be before Ramsay takes him away from us.
Eh, I suppose that's true. To be more honest, I'm both happy and a bit disappointed that the Knights of the Vale appeared, however I'm more happy, cause the Boltons got what they actually deserved, after what they've done.
My little rant as usual:
-Let's talk about Meeren.. The dragons just go outside their cave? Why didn't they go out on the first place if they can crush walls like that? Also it seems they don't need riders anymore. There was at least a dragon queen (Rhaenyra Targaryen) and Theon states Euron took the salt throne from Yara? He was elected, damn. That's a bit hypocritcal to say he stole it.
-Davos finally shiting on Stannis. I had the feeling it will happen.
-What's the point of the Bolton taking Moat Cailin? It's said to be impossible to take if well defended. The vale just cross it but nevermind.
-Littlefingeus ex machina. Just as in Blackwater and in the fight beyond the wall. Stop coming late please.
-Tormund getting hit by Umber and no one give a shit. :')
An episode well shot, good quality. But Blackwater is still better imo.
No idea why the dragons stayed under the pyramid after being unchained, but I guess they now sensed/heard the battle which made them rush out. And of course Theon and Yara are going to say that Euron stole the throne - he did kill Balon after all. And Rhaenyra is literally called "The Queen Who Never Was", so it's understandable her short reign would be ignored in a conversation like this.
Hardly shitting when he says he "loved the man". 99% of people in his shoes would be way more harsh.
I don't think they had much men holding it, due to the army gathered first against Stannis and now against Jon. Especially Ramsay wouldn't really bother with making sure that Moat Cailin doesn't leak, it's been established that he doesn't really think any southern army is a threat to them. And did they even know that Vale is not an ally anymore? Littlefinger could have just come there like "Hey, we should team up against the Lannisters, because we both betrayed them and they are totally marching here"
Or something like that.
Technically it's not DXM if it's set up
Haha, well they cant please everyone. Blackwater was good but I think this was better. The battle especially.
Very true, if we hadn't seen LF already offer the Knights to Sansa, that would be different, but I think almost everyone was expecting them to show up.
She's also called the half year Queen.
Wasn't you who said they were fine with kinslaying? Also the guys in the Kingsmoot seemed pretty ok with it. The point is Euron never took the throne from Yara since elected (election which come with the fact it's now a realm). You can say he took it from Balon though.
He does when he says he lost on his own and said he had demons. I agree show Stannis wasn't keen toward Davos (sentencing him to death and all) but he's supposed to be loyal to the very end. He still didn't get Shireen's fate in this scene so I don't know why he changed his loyalty (since the beginning of this season)
Oh, we don't know who are the people on the cross btw. So much theories about that for nothing x)
Everyone knew he was coming but still, it responds to some standards of the DXM, like the thing solving the problem of the hero at the last moment.
Sure, but what I'm saying is that Yara (and Theon I guess) surely isn't fine with it, and possibly sees it even as usurping. Anyway, the point is that they are selling their cause to Dany, why would they say that "well technically he was elected"? Ofc they will explain it in a way that will make Dany sympathize them.
Well, that's just Davos saying things as they are tbh. Well, the part about "losing to himself" at least - Davos did suggest retreating but Stannis didn't take any of that. And what comes to demons in his heads, I think we can agree he was a bit misguided at the end, being desperate enough to burn his own daughter in belief it would give him the blessing of R'hllor (granted Davos didn't yet know that when he talked with Tormund). In the end, I think his anger will be purely towards Mel for corrupting Stannis.
Yeah, I did wonder that too
I guess one of them could be Osha? But the others? Hard to say.
Well, yeah, I think they could've lasted like ten more minutes? But anyway, I certainly take this over some "shock twist" where LF arrives just to be on Ramsay's side or something like that.
Am I the only one that thought 'massive CGI mess,' with added gore (people with their intestines) that felt like it was just for shock value, which is strange to say when talking about Game of Thrones? Not to mention that ending, yes, it was set up to some extent, but it still felt more Lord of the Rings than Game of Thrones.
That said, I really liked Ramsey firing on his own men to create an effective no man's land, that was cool to watch, as was the surrounding them with spears, but following Snow through the very CGI background of people randomly coming up and getting rammed - I know it was meant to be chaotic, but I thought it just looked cheesy. Not to mention cutting the shot every 2 seconds so you can't tell who is who... The battle I liked? Stannis attacking Winterfell. You have this very nice overhead shot of him getting encircled and overrun.
It's not shock value - it's the gritty reality of a battle. It's the horror of war from the perspective of someone in the middle of it. That's how it is there, shocking, messy, gritty, claustrophobic.
Stannis battle last year? Nothing against it, but that's like from the perspective of someone playing a game and watching it from a safe distance. There's not really a feel of tension there imo. But it's not even fair to compare the two, considering budget, time spent filming them, etc.
I didn't notice the CGI at all, it was masterfully done.
The Forresters send their regards.
But still, I'm gonna miss Ramsay. A very fitting end to an awesome villain, just like Joffrey.
Because... honesty? Nah, you're making a point here aha, though I was just pointing their hypocrisy.
Actually he couldn't. The nightswatch couldn't feed them, they don't have enough food. And winter would be upon them all the way back to Castleblack. As for the battle lost, they should have win seeing it was a mounted vs only spike army, but well, they did loose.
That's what the preview shows but with D&D's view on Stannis's character, I'm not sure.
Aye.
I think you know me a bit by now; I like to rant and mention some details about the lore or the books but it doesn't mean I didn't like this episode which was really enjoyable; I really like the mess in the battle, it felt more realistic and less glorified, somehow a WW1's kind of vibe imo.
They took care about battle strategy more than before (they hugely upgraded on this point compared to the battle of Winterfell 1.0) and I also liked how Ramsay wasn't "heroic" as before.
Blackwater is just my favorite, good old memories.
best episode ever!!! i have no words to describe it
Great episode overall here's my thoughts
What I liked:
CGI was awesome in this episode
All the extras and actors slashing away
The breach of Winterfell
The Wildlings showing their worth: It's good to see how loyal they are and how much they really want to be apart of Westeros
Sansa's Vengeance: Is there really anything more to say? She may be finally be being something else other than a victim
What I didn't like:
Less major character deaths: Apart from Ramsay there's no one really important lost which was slightly disappointing seeing how big this battle was
Starks won too easily: This coincides with barely any loss on their end.This was predictable sadly. Jon Snow has become Superman or John Cena at this point
The Late Little finger: Littlefinger again proves he's using the Starks by sending his knights at the ass end of the chaos
5 seasons of Starks being fucked in the ass - "Fuck this! It's getting too predictable that Starks always lose!"
Starks have their first major victory in season 6 - "Man this was too predictable, of course they won!"
Just ask Sansa
And it was. There was no chance of them ever losing
Well not every story beat can be a surprising twist. But it was still a tense episode and showed interesting development in Jon's and Sansa's characters. Can't speak for anyone else but there were couple moments I actually was worried for Jon, thinking perhaps he dies and is brought back again.
I did love Sansa's character in this episode as for the past 5 seasons she's been sort of a victim. This is Game of Thrones though surprise is one of it's main elements. This would have been a more appropriate time to lose a major character on their side as it would be a traumatic thing for Jon and company to come to grips with and yet it was pretty easily won (compared with the Battle of Blackwater Bay, Hardhome and Wildlings vs Night's Watch) I still think it was an amazing battle nonetheless
and thats one thing i thought ramsay kinda implied to sansa... he said something like 'ill always be part of you' or some shit like that. i thought that thats what they were implying but sansa didnt shit about it and she never really showed much of a baby bump.. so idk
Well when you think about it, aside from WotW there haven't really been major deaths in the battle episodes prior to this. Blackwater? No deaths really - Tyrion getting his scar was the closest thing. Oh, and Davos' son, but we hardly knew him. And in Hardhome only characters who had been introduced in that episode died. Battle of Castle Black was really the only one with major deaths.
In this episode we lost Rickon, Wun Wun and Ramsay (and Smalljon) so it's not like no one died. I dreaded that either Davos or Tormund would die. I certainly understand now why Davos didn't die though - his arc with Mel is clearly not finished yet. And Tormund is really the only character left to represent the Wildlings so I also understand why they'd want to keep him alive.
Only reason the battle was "easily" (after massive losses) won was because LF. And while it was a victorious moment in this episode, I would be a bit worried about Baelish's motives in the future - Jon and Sansa are basically in debt for him now.
Overall I'd say that even if the victory was somewhat predictable, they managed to do it so that it didn't feel too much like some kind of "happy ending". Jon and Sansa went both a bit dark side in this episode, they can't trust LF, thousands of men died, Davos and Mel have bad blood, they still need to unite the North before Night King comes, etc. They are still in a shitty situation
RIP Ramsay and His fucking plot armour( already missing Iwan Rheon)
Boltons Got Littlefingered.
That moment when Rickon runs straight and you are yelling at the screen:"zig zag rickon zig zag!"
I don't think Sansa is pregnant, it was a metaphore, confirmed by the grin in the end of the scene, Ramsay is a part of her now.
Daenerys hair disturbs me, dragons and chill but her hair is always on point.
Melisandre is fucked.
Jon Snow resembles Ned more than any other Stark children(maybe except For Arya), I'm reconsidering him this season.
Wun Wun break the door!
It scares me that Sansa actually seemed to never care about Rickon. I'm talking about the scene when Jon tells to bury him next to Ned, she even doesn't look at him. What do you think about it?
I think Ramsay just meant that what he did to her will haunt Sansa forever.
Nah, I think she did care, she is just thinking rationally. I mean we all pretty much predicted that Ramsay would kill Rickon, because we know what kind of an asshole he is. Sansa knows this too, for obvious reasons.
I don't think that Rickon would escape easily anyways. Ramsay is a master at "archering". Even if he did miss, he'd order his own soldiers to fire arrows at him, which it'd pretty much end the same, no matter what Rickon'd do.
True, but it seemed(for the first few rounds) that the arrows were aimed at his section of the field (before the others caught up).
I thought the episode was decent
Positives
Meh
Negatives
It could mean that her mind is kinda the same as him..
Dunno, feeding someone to the hound is pretty sadistic, the same way it was with Ramsay.
Anyone who survives a battle like that must have luck on his side. So was Jon lucky? Yes - just like everyone else who survived that chaos.