Proof that Soren was secretly an Old Builder in episode 3. THREAD
Soren said that All of his friends turned on him. The ONLY member in the order that turned on him was Ivor but he said "All of them" and I noticed a book in episode 7 called "The Redstone Heart" by Soren. So did Soren help Harper and the other Old Builders to create IMPOSSIBLE OBJECTS like the enchanted flint and steel, the Redstone Heart, and also made the command block but they turned on him? Here are some KEY HINTS in episode 3 that reveal he was once an Old Builder.
- Soren : "Ah, I see! You misspoke. You don't need ME, you just need my STUFF."
- Soren : "Well... I've found that when you give people what they want, they turn on you. They become resentful."
- Jesse : "Who turned on you?" Soren : "ALL of them did!"
- Soren : "Its why I prefer Endermen. They always do what you expect, almost to a fault."
Also, hints that basically exposed him for an Old Builder
- Made an artificial happy land with wool.
- Has been ISOLATED from the outside world like Harper and CassieRose that made them lonely in episode 6 and 7.
- Made a lab with books and schematics.
- Records research on Endermen using a jukebox.
- Has an obsession with stairs, the ending to episode 7 shows an long hall of stairs. Who else loves to make stairs like that?
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Comments
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big shocker, right? I can't believe this evidence was right under our noses.
Why duplicate threads? Didn't you make the first one about this?
This looks similar to the other theory I made about Soren being a leader of the Old Builders, but I can't edit this evidence onto there for some odd reason because the button to edit is gone. I'm actually using my ps4 to get on the telltale website since I don't own a computer. Now when I post theories, I can't update them, which is a bummer.
So yeah. It's strange for something like that to happen.
Oh yeah! I knew there was lots of physical evidence, but I totally forgot those quotes!
I can imagine Soren's voice as I read the quotes. As soon as I watched the trailer for episode 3, Soren became my favorite member of the order. I loved the way he said things... of course later I realized he was a traitor and Ivor became my favorite member. Ok, sorry, I think I got way off track here XD
Yep.
Lol, its fine.
"Ooh, that's good."
-Ivor
"Elementary my dear Ivor." instead of Lukas.
I love the way he says that line.
And since he's an architect, he probably made the Atlas.
Maybe
No wait #maybe
maybe
good
Something else I noticed! At the very, very begining, it says: "Soren is the builder of worlds." WORLDS! He could have helped build the portals, maybe?
It seems to me that Soren basically built lots of impossible items like the command block, the super TNT, the Eversource (I think it was supposed to be the crown), the Redstone Heart and the Atlas including the Portal Hallway, for the Old Builders. Its like HE did all the work, and THEY took all the credit, remember when he said in episode 3, he said, "Well i've heard when you give people what they want, they turn on you. They become resentful." So is Soren holding a grudge because his friends ignored him all his life, he thinks his friends turned on him, maybe not in an evil way, but just didn't pay any attention to him at all.
I know in each of the worlds you can find books authored by Soren, The Founder had one, Cassie Rose had one, as well as Harper an officially known old builder. One of them is even Named "The Redstone Heart" by Soren. The redstone heart is what was being used to power PAMA, what was shoved into the hole to open the staircase up and it is owned by Harper an old builder herself. How else could he write a book about it if he wasn't an old builder?! It actually would explain what he said in episode 3 and make it less cryptic because he obviously wasn't talking about the order since only one may have "betrayed" him which would be Ivor. It would also explain how his books got into their libraries and possibly his prolonged absence. (I don't think they had a cross-portal book fair) Him being an old builder would also possibly explain how he can make impossible things like the Formidi-bomb. Please correct me if any info is inaccurate alright, like besides the theoretical stuff.
Its true, this is kinda reminding me of when the "Order of Liars" used the command block to falsify the defeat of the Ender Dragon, and they and Ivor, agreed to never tell the truth and they all separated from each other which they never revealed why. And Soren being with the Old Builders, created impossible objects for each of them to use, but like he said in ep. 3, he gave them the items they needed and "turned" on him. So then does that mean they're just a bunch of "Old Frauds" by them saying they made the objects like the Redstone Heart and the Portal Hallway making him feel like they used him.
Exactly!... but... he said he "found" the command block, and before that they (the order) were "nobodies." I fully agree with you, but how do we explain that? Maybe he found the command block, then used it to make the impossible objects??
Whoa that could be true.
I think the biggest question is where did he find it? His wording points to the conclusion that he found it and didn't make it. But where on earth could you find something like that. Maybe it's in one of the portals. Perhaps in episode 8 if Soren really is an old builder and found the command block in another world Jesse and co. could come across that world and find one of their own.
I remembered Ellie tried to make a command block in episode 2 to use against the Wither Storm but failed when it attacked Redstonia.
She was probably trying to make one based on what she knew from the original. I wonder if she really could have done it?
I've been wondering where he got it from for a long time now. Maybe we'll find out soon!
Yeah, though I hope that the Old Builders aren't frauds. I mean they built that portal hub and it's real and it works. I really want Soren in Episode 8 like, I miss him. I honestly still love the old order tbh. (This is a bit off topic right here) Everyone makes mistakes and the development with Ivor is great (Especially if you get arrested with him and he says no one has ever done something like that for me before. The feels! o(╥﹏╥)o and how he doesn't "like the feeling" of this opening up stuff, just beautiful) (BACK on track) So, Soren must have made items for them which might have caused them to turn on him or simply just ignore him (that's so awful). Which in turn must have caused him to say that when you give people what they want (these items) they become resentful. I even think he made the Redstone heart for Harper as one of these items. On another note, when the Formidi-bomb (F-bomb omg why Magnus)(≧∇≦) doesn't work he paces around and one of the of the lines he says is "I should have casted that foul thing (referring to the command block) into the abyss ages ago." What abyss is he referring to? And I don't think the order have been around for that long judging by the hypeness people had about them. They seemed quite recent. Posters everywhere, fans everywhere, old legends don't get that much hype, which means he may have been referring to his time with the Builders as "ages ago". The others in the order had no idea Soren had the command block or that he was using it until the Enderdragon incident. So that may also attribute to him having it for quite a while. He's shown to be quite skilled with it too. Maybe Soren even made the ever source since it states that the old builders had it and hid it. It is an impossible object after all (suggesting the crown is the Eversource and the chicken was just a catalyst for the items). Somehow Isa got a hold of it. Who knows! All this speculation.
Well, Harper said if they want to get the Atlas, they need to gather the Old Builders, which we have met who basically built amazing stuff in each episode. Remember how many members were in the Order? Five, now here are the five members of Old Builders whom I think will appear or return.
Although Isa couldn't be an old builder because she didn't know what the portal was when she seen it.
I doubt Isa could be an old builder since she had no idea what the portal was, and she just randomly found the eversource. But, who knows? So there are 3 blank spaces, Harper being the confirmed/admitted old builder and It's pretty obvious Soren is one too. Isa is quite iffy and same with Cassie possibly. If Cassie is an old builder then I wonder what item she got. I haven't seen anything super special. If she is which she might, since she knows about the Portal hub and has a picture of it, why couldn't she make her own portal key since the old builders made them in the first place? Do only a select few (Harper and possibly Soren) know how to make one? If Soren is there just chillin' or somehow shows up then that would mean that he built an exit portal (or found one) and made a portal key since Jesse and co. have the only portal key in their world and they didn't go through an exit portal when they started their portal adventure. This is evidenced that all exit portals lead back to the portal hub, so why did the portal Jesse go through lead them to sky city instead of the portal hub? Well, obviously they either don't have an exit portal or haven't found it. Why wasn't sky cities portal in the portal hub, why was it in Jesse's world? So..many...questions XD. This is fun!!!
Ohhhhhh, thats right. Well if Isa isn't an Old Builder, what about CassieRose? She has a portrait of herself as well and has a portrait of the Hallway, could SHE be an Old Builder and not Isa? Plus Ivor was speculating if she could've been one of them.
Darn, thats true, guess it leaves four members, just like Ivor when he left the Order.
So when I was doing my own play through of episode 6, I chose the option at one point to say, "Why don't we share?" Cassie said something along the lines of, "What so we can walk through the portal 'holding hands' and all happy for you to later back stab me?!" Something like that. This must mean that someone stranded her here. That would explain why she didn't have a key. I wonder who left her there in a world that wasn't her own. Why didn't she go look for the key herself? How come the portal isn't lit anymore? I'm pretty sure the portal Jesse and crew went through in their world is still active, though the portal may deactivate over time. Cassie may be an old builder too.
)
"A video I recorded of "The Redstone Heart" book by Soren part!!"(
That explains alot, she got backstabbed by her friends possibly, just like Soren.
Yeah, agreed. I can't wait for episode 8. I really hope Soren is an old builder like if he isn't, then that would be such a butt move! Episode 8 needs to be here. The cliffhangers though!!!! Grrrr. Haha. So what else is there for us to speculate?
Oh yeah, I found the Redstone heart book!! Like the dialogue. Jesse better put two and two together. I put that video up!
So a book by Soren is found in each episode, I still don't understand why theres a book in Isa's throne room? Since she doesn't seem like shes an Old Builder and she didn't know what the portal was.
Yep. Builder of Worlds, he used the Atlas to build around the world in each portal.
What's weird about it is that his book is the only different book in there, the others were documents and other boring stuff. Cassie's bookshelf contained everything about portals except one by Soren which was about endermen. Then Harper was actively reading a Redstone heart book.
Yep, it makes total sense, looks like Harper was currently in the middle of reading one of Soren's books since it was on the table.