A discussion of Episode 3 and some aspects that bothered me.
I found that the third episode was quite good overall, and I had a pleasant time with it. I genuinely wish Telltale would improve their visual fidelity and use a better engine however, because the animation flaws, glitches, and visual hiccups are really infuriating after years of them resting on their laurels in the tech department. Despite that, they did manage to animate it well, and I have to respect that it is all done by hand within the game engine, and not pre rendered, plus some really good choreography for fight scenes. I also admire the ridiculous amount of detail the art department puts into the environment, especially bars! Oh my gosh they put so much detail into bars in Telltale games!
What I'm a bit confused about is in regards to the preview for Episode 4, and Bruce being sent to Arkham Asylum. I don't think this makes sense. It has been shown very clearly on live television that it is a drug that removes inhibitions, and that the people who are given it have very little control over their actions. It also has very obvious side effects with pronounced veins. The idea that they believe Bruce to be insane and send him away despite the fact is was obviously drugged is stupid to me.
This of course changes if Vicki gave a huge drug dose that is "permanent" and Harvey and the law enforcement understand it isn't his vault, and know who caused it, and try to cure the drug from his system in the Asylum.
I have a personal irritation with how Vicki talked about "revenge". Throughout the entire game, I remained sympathetic to Oz in every dialogue choice, kind to Vicki, and at the end with the speech, I didn't break character once (my logic was that nobody would believe Bruce Wayne after the scandal with his family, and it would be much better to work through that as Batman), and I told Oz that his family deserved it (I find it incredibly strange how hostile he was to my Bruce when I was nothing but kind to him in every dialogue choice, the fact it doesn't make an impact bothers me).
I wish the game accounted for this, since it reminds me far to much of Game Of Thrones, which I found incredibly disappointing in a lot of ways, especially how it funneled you into "bad guys magically win every situation nonsensically" no matter what you did.
Off topic, but I found it really interesting how despite the drug removing his impulse control and inhibitions in Episode 2, Harvey spoke very kindly about Gotham and it's people, and how he genuinely wanted to help it. I think it would be an exceptionally interesting concept if Harvey could find a way to control his mental illness and remain a good person, there is something rather interesting and iconic with a man with half a mask fighting for justice, and amusingly suitable about the Mayor of Gotham, a very "troubled" city, having half their face brutally burnt.
I know the appearance is iconic, but does it make any sense to anybody that Harvey leaves his innards completely exposed? If he trips the wrong way he could completely crush his eye socket or cause serious brain damage, not to mention the risks of bleeding to death, how did the medical professionals allow him to do that? He should realistically be wearing a lot of protection...
Well, that's a lot of paragraphs... sorry if this is too much. One last thing, I'm seeing people on the forums talk about hints of Harleen Quinzel in episode 3, can someone point this out to me? I absolutely love Harley and think she is incredibly interesting when she is an anti hero in stories seperate of Joker (who I don't want in the Telltale game due to overuse), and her intelligence isn't downplayed.
Comments
It disapppointed me too that Oz will be hostile to you no matter what you do, I tried to be so nice. Also, about Vicki's plot twist, i thought it was unrealistic, but lets wait to see how this works.
I loved Vicki's twist...certainly Oz's family was not the only one screwed over by the Waynes. As for how Oz was....if my family had been destroyed like his...I am not sure I would act much better than he has.
But we still have two episodes to go.
You raise some good observations, but I'm comfortable with suspending some disbelief here. My thought is that the general public does not know the properties of the drug as well as CoA or Batman. Their only reference for it was at the debate, which, in the middle of all the other chaos, may not have been the public focus as much as Hill being murdered, for example, and the scandal over Thomas Wayne.
The public also sees Bruce as a man who lost his family's company. If I were an average citizen, it would be plausible to me that Bruce also lost his sanity over it. But even if there was general knowledge and sympathy for Bruce being drugged, Bruce won't be able to prove yet who have him the dose. More importantly, I doubt Harvey will be lenient. The combination of Harvey's declining mental state plus his recent shock over Bruce's indiscretion with Selina (whether he's right or wrong about it) makes it believable that he would go through with putting Bruce away.
I think Bruce going to Arkham also makes a great - and really inevitable - setting for him to deal with his internal conflicts, so in a narrative sense it's necessary.
Oz's particularly nasty behavior made sense in hindsight because he was 'priming' Bruce. He wanted to make sure that when Vicki gave him the drug, that his anger towards Oz was forefront in his mind. Regardless of what Bruce said or did, Oz was sticking to a plan. I do agree that it might have been more interesting if Oz showed some hesitancy or an attack of conscience of you chose to restrain yourself. Oz seems pretty committed, though.
But wow do I agree about Harvey's face. It's a medical miracle that he's not stinking and infected by now. He must apply ointment by the bucket
I suppose I can see what you mean, but I still think it would be incredibly obvious to the public that it was an injection, especially since Harvey himself has had an injection, but they still considered him fit for mayorship.
The is also the point that the mayor and general public have absolutely no control over jurisdiction regarding mental health, it would be the police department (who we know for certain is aware of the drugs), and the court of law, which would be a larger process than one man just saying "He's crazy in jail he goes", especially since evidence is accounted for and investigations would occur.
I do agree however that him going to Arkham would make for an interesting setpiece from a narrative and cinematic perspective but along with the fact Harvey's campaign was based upon shutting the institution down, the fact Bruce will need medical treatment for his injection, and how it would probably need to go through the court system before hand, I don't think it makes sense that he is just straight up sent there instead of receiving help.
I understand that Oz had an objective in mind, but I do wish that some of the dialogue accounted more so for the fact, especially since I was a complete yes man during the speech, again, nobody would believe Bruce, and Bruce isn't supposed to know that Oz is with the Children of Arkham, only Batman. But there is that one dialogue choice where it forces you to tell Oz how horrible he is/he is a criminal, he is with CoA, and there is no way to avoid it or continue to act kind/oblivious (the silent option is an accusatory glare that says the same thing). The fact you can't play it up as Bruce irritates me.
Also, hooooly cow is Bruce lucky that nobody figured out he was Batman. First his mask was broken and Oz can directly see his eyes/mouth and jawline. Then he has to go to a meeting with the incredibly pronounced injury Vicki gave him (and somehow nobody notices), and when he was presumably arrested, nobody thought it suspicious how he had a hyper advanced ear piece, cell phone with a biological scanner, and a Vehicle which is a mechanical marvel of engineering. Somehow during the whole detainment process, absolutely none of those things were found suspicious! You aren't putting a lot of effort into being covert Bruce! You're supposed to be oblivious!
Not to mention how nobody thought that Oz even slightly resembled that man on TV with the exact same height, body build, mannerisms, animations (heh), and almost identical voice. I don't think playing up the English accent is enough to stop that. NOT TO MENTION BATMAN SHOULD HAVE TOLD THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THE PENGUIN IS OSWALD ARE YOU SERIOUS!?
Infections! I forgot about Infections, an injury like that would be life threatening! Not to mention, how is he not tearing skin and ligaments off when he keeps pressing that piece of plastic mask up to his fact? The residual biological chemicals would cause friction with it and it could be a serious hazard!
Apparently you can't edit your OP post in this forum, the typos will forever be my bane.
Sometimes, more often in video games than not, you have to suspend your disbelief. Yeah on the surface it does not make sense but if the average Gotham citizen didn't have rocks for brain there would be no Batman.
Alas, that is hard for me to do in a game which is specifically made for storytelling. Especially since they seem insistent on streamlining gameplay and refusing to optimize/enhance/create a new engine. If they made an effort to allow you to choose how action scenes play out (like Wolf Among Us did a bit, choreographing your own fight scene with more challenging and slick QTE's), and having that impact your appearance, character reactions, and choices later on, or putting more of a focus on challenging detective work, I would feel better, but since the story is the main focus, these details stick out to me.
My most significant complaints don't have to do with the nitpicking though, mostly just a frustration at the lack of dialogue reactivity like I said.
Bruce Wayne easily could have started an investigation into Oz based on the fact that he knows him, heard him talk about revolution, and recognized him saying similar things on camera. If the police (the ones who aren't corrupt) were smart, they'd recognize that it's a super big coincidence that this group happened to rise into power and specifically are gunning for the Waynes, the person at the debate had the same body type and voice as Oz, and suddenly this person who has every reason to hate the Waynes showed up and took over Wayne Enterprises at the exact same time all of this is going down. Nobody is dumb enough to not put two and two together.
Finding something on him would have been hard, though, because the Children of Arkham wiped all his criminal records. Then again, wasn't Alfred able to pull them up with no problem? Why can't they send those records to Gordon as an "anonymous tip"?
Because there is no way to assert those records are more legitimate that the ones already out in the wild. Batman mentions Oswald to Gordon but there is no solid ground for accusations as of now. He'll keep digging in Episode 4.
True, but since they have those records, they know where Oz was imprisoned/arrested before. I'm sure they could find people who remembered him. Unless the Children of Arkham took them all out, which is highly improbable and suspicious in and of itself.
Not that it matters because Bruce never attempted to spark an investigation into Oz in episode 3, for whatever reason. Now he's in Arkham so it'll have to wait.
Bruce did not but Batman absolutely talked about Oswald to Gordon, only to have Alfred tell to Bruce that the comissioner needs more solid evidence.
I have a feeling Montoya will play a role there. She's slightly less "by the book" than Jim and she has proven to be a very good cop, glad I protected her instead of Harvey in Episode 3. Harvey is the goddamn mayor he could handle it but she was on her own and if you don't support her she resigns.
The force needs more people like her.
True, but I think we could have gone further, sent Gordon the records we found, and tell him to try and contact the people who were at the places Oz was arrested (and he was, since we saw mugshots of him). But I guess the narrative wouldn't be stretched out long enough if they looked hard into it so soon.
And yeah with Montoya. I have a feeling she'll play a part too, though it'll be dependent on how you treated her. I really hope the bug where Bruce says he gave Montoya's name to Vicki when we didn't choose that was simply the dialogue and not deeper. Because I kind of screwed her over saving Harvey first!
What does Harvey being mayor have to do with it? He took off without bodyguards or security, which we knew (and yes that was reckless but so was Montoya charging in there on her own), and unlike being a cop being the mayor doesn't mean you are armed or expecting trouble or at all trained for what to do in a fight.
Whether Montoya was the right choice or not, I really don't get why Harvey being mayor means he should be able to handle people trying to kill him while Montoya going in by herself but knowing what she's walking into means she's more vulnerable and has a greater need.
If you don't save Montoya she resigns but will keep digging and if you don't save Harvey he has to kill a man with his bare hands and his mental state is even more screwed over.
He could fall back on his feets, Montoya stroke me as more vulnerable.
This is how I see it as well. Harvey might be mayor but he's also a civilian. Montoya is not; she's an armed and trained officer. The choice was really obvious and I can't imagine Batman doing different.
I don't see a reason she'd be more vulnerable.
I mean, Harvey is a large dude but he's also unarmed and doesn't seem to be all that spectacular at fighting as of yet, from what we've seen.
Thinking back, I guess Montoya was walking into what seemed like a bigger nest of goons than Harvey was dealing with. So in that respect I can see her needing more help. But I still subscribe to the idea that cops are trained for and know what they're getting into. Civilians don't make that choice. So between one or the other, the choice is clear. And we knew Gordon was sending backup.
I saved Montoya because A. The trailer spoiled that Harvey is fine, and B. I really like Montoya as a character (I don't read the comics, but I like her premise and backstory), I would love to see Montoya get her fleshed out story as a detective and see that expanded.
Also this.
Also, hearing you guys say that she resigns is reason for me to get nervous about it.
Nitpick again, she looks rather different from her other depictions, I wonder why they changed it. Apparently she is supposed to be around the same age as Vicki and Selina, so the cheek lines and face shape are rather distracting, and look a bit weird artistically in comparison to the other characters in all their games.
Then of course Harvey is this bizarre quarterback hulk with his neck being triple the size of other characters (almost bigger than blockbuster). And for some reason no backstory is established for this bizarre appearance.
I don't get why men in games are often hyper bulky and large in comparison to women, obviously there are fair anatomy differences, but they make it rather extreme, with arms the size of bricks in comparison. In real life I haven't seen people who are so much overtly "larger", so it's strange. Men aren't all lumbering giants with big blocky hands and tree trunk necks!