I'm just baffled by the game's storytelling and legitimately confused with a lot of the game's narrative decisions.
Exactly what I said about this game. If graphics and gameplay are good?(which by the looks of it. It does look good)the story and plot needs to be good too. Which looks like it isn't good and boring.
I've made it to the second half of this game, and not only am I bored, disinterested, and not the least bit invested in anything transpiring… more, I'm just baffled by the game's storytelling and legitimately confused with a lot of the game's narrative decisions. It takes a lot of risks, that's for sure, but very few of them work, and despite having the same writer/director of the first game, it feels like it doesn't understand the complexities of the first game and either dumbs it down or devalues it for this one.
Oh, in terms of graphics and the technical aspect of it, it’s amazing. Part 2 is an absolutely beautiful game to look at, it’s just not all that fun to play or sit through.
I'm just baffled by the game's storytelling and legitimately confused with a lot of the game's narrative decisions.
Exactly what I s… moreaid about this game. If graphics and gameplay are good?(which by the looks of it. It does look good)the story and plot needs to be good too. Which looks like it isn't good and boring.
I'm just baffled by the game's storytelling and legitimately confused with a lot of the game's narrative decisions.
Exactly what I s… moreaid about this game. If graphics and gameplay are good?(which by the looks of it. It does look good)the story and plot needs to be good too. Which looks like it isn't good and boring.
Definitely confused about this. Clearly the decisions made were going to be looked down upon by some people -- especially if you're very fond of Joel (as practically every TLOU player is) -- but I wonder.. Did they really expect this much backlash??
There's also the question that Neil says he's undecided on if he wants to make a Part III next.
Given the amount of divisiveness this game has brought, continuing this story seems like a terrible idea for Naughty Dog. I don't think it would be right to make a Part 3 especially when so many are dismissing this game as a sequel.
The Last Of Us has quickly fallen into a cult-hit hole with its sequel, and a possible third game is unlikely to make as much profit as the first or second entries given how this one's been received (and especially with how the public now views Neil's/Naughty Dog's credibility).
Currently, I think it's still a pretty good game, sitting at maybe a 7 for me (but really, I JUST got into the Seattle open area) but it's definitely a step down from the tightly told, tightly paced, engaging first game.
I've got to admit that this is a technical marvel though. The traversal improvements are really fun and the environments and sound design are gorgeous. I especially love how they brought over the open level design from Uncharted Lost Legacy.
But... Dare I say it... With how this game's been received it seems like it's been "wasted" on a game that doesn't deliver its first and biggest promise: an engaging and well-crafted story.
Hopefully future ND titles can achieve that great balance of story + refined gameplay we've had in the past, because apart from the story in this game, I'm really liking it so far.
(Also those Infected designs are way more chilling and grotesque. I love hate it. )
Even with some new details and some small improvements on the game, I just don't feel anything while playing this game because most of the levels aren't completely new.
Definitely confused about this. Clearly the decisions made were going to be looked down upon by some people -- especially if you're very fon… mored of Joel (as practically every TLOU player is) -- but I wonder.. Did they really expect this much backlash??
There's also the question that Neil says he's undecided on if he wants to make a Part III next.
Given the amount of divisiveness this game has brought, continuing this story seems like a terrible idea for Naughty Dog. I don't think it would be right to make a Part 3 especially when so many are dismissing this game as a sequel.
The Last Of Us has quickly fallen into a cult-hit hole with its sequel, and a possible third game is unlikely to make as much profit as the first or second entries given how this one's been received (and especially with how the public now views Neil's/Naughty Dog's credibility).
Currently, I think it's still a pretty good game, sitting at maybe a 7 for me (but really… [view original content]
Aw, that's a shame.
But what do you mean levels aren't completely new? Like, they feel too similar to the last game? (Overgrown, destroyed cityscape?)
It's kind of hard to innovate and make unique environments for a game that mostly covered all the bases last time. (We had: a Militaristic Shipping Yard, a building falling apart, an old, overgrown Distillery Town, a Destroyed Cityscape, a Sewer Level, Overgrown Suburbs, Fall-colored University Campus, Snowed-in Ski Lodge, Blizzard-infested small town, Overgrown Cityscape#2, a Spooky Tunnel level and a Militaristic Hospital -- also 2 destroyed Shopping Malls in the DLC)
It's not on you, but we've basically seen every type of environment we can see for a Post-Apocalyptic game, so Naughty Dog doesn't really have anywhere else to expand their repertoire. Just make everything bigger I guess.
I'm excited to see the stormy Seattle waterfront though! That's something we haven't seen last time!
Even with some new details and some small improvements on the game, I just don't feel anything while playing this game because most of the levels aren't completely new.
Also, (not to overshadow anyone else), but I too have decided to record my experiences with this game. It's just been something I've been waiting for for a really long time, and the negative reviews had me thinking I was in for a "unique" sequel to a very beloved game, which is not something anyone expected from this company. I've also been really interested in seeing other people's thoughts on events in this game.
So far, I just got to the first open Seattle area.
Well I beat the game. I don't think its horrible garbage trash like many have said. So I dont think its bad, but I wouldnt say its "good" either.
For one I gotta say my biggest issue is the gameplay, and probably more specifically the glitches. I have no idea if this was just me, but this was so glitchy it was getting beyond annoying. Clickers being alerted randomly, shot through thick walls and seen through walls, a few times the interaction button just made Ellie spin in circles for 10 seconds before she did anything. During a scene early on where you need to run upstairs away from infected the ai partner just stopped and locked me in so I died, next time I was far ahead of the clickers and then suddenly one just spawned on me or something and I die, then on the third try I get grabbed, launched forward, cant move and can only jump for a few seconds, and then I can run and continue it. This isnt even going over how awkward some of the AI acted like repeatedly jumping in and out over the same cover for 0 reason. Now ignoring the glitches, the gameplay feels dated. Feels straight out of 2013. Theres only a few gameplay adjustments like the dodge being a good addition. If only the camera consistently locked on when I did it instead of forcing me to readjust every time. It also goes on for way too long and half the time it feels like aimless wandering. Thankfully I found the hint button that just directs you at a moments notice in the menu because it got to the point where I just wanted to move on rather than spend so much time looking for whatever tiny little hole covered in darkness I had to climb through.
So the story. Kinda mixed. It isnt terrible but again, I wouldnt say its very good either. A big problem is I feel its very boring most of the time. It takes so damn long to ever progress the plot and then you have to hope it progress it in a meaningful way. Doesnt help this plot is pretty generic with some really flat characters. Most of these characters are really disposable. They dont have much depth at all. Now below I'll go into spoilers about the story so dont read if you dont want to be spoiled.
I'll just start with things I didn't like/felt weak. One issue is before Joel is killed, Jesse gets Dina and Ellie to go find Joel and Tommy. They all leave together. But when we cut back to them, from some reason Ellie is just by herself? Dina and Jesse no where to be seen. So Ellie just goes in, Joel dies, then Dina shows up to save us? What just happened? Why was Ellie by herself all of a sudden? Nothing said about her riding ahead or them being separated, nothing. They even make a point that there are no guards watching the lodge, so what, were Jesse and Dina just watching Abby and crew leave? I understand it was important for Ellie to be the only one to witness Joel's death but that really could have been done a bit better because I have no idea why they seemingly just disappeared. (Ignore that, Im dumb) Another issue is the fact Joel is the one who saves Abby at the start. You'd think this may give Abby some sort of perspective about how the man she wants revenge on so bad just saved her, but she never seems to acknowledge it because all characters must remain one note. Later she seems to show regret but it seems its mostly regret that her friends are judging her for what she did rather than her performing the act. I found it really weird story wise to make Joel save her and Abby doesnt think twice about that. They also gloss over her backstory real damn quick to try and get people to care about the surgeon. Obviously Abby cares but damn, this dude is talking about Ellie as a host, says its for the greater good but wouldnt do it if it was his daughter, and then is confused about why Joel should know- like am I suppose to care this guy gets killed because he really isnt that likable on a human level here. (Also the Fireflies disbanding was really half-assed as well as the reason why this plot drops the Ellie immunity thing because for some reason only one person knew how to make a vaccine. That really doesnt make sense because why would that not be known, written down, or anything for the other doctors? Why was Abby's dad somehow the only one able to do it? Felt like a weird excuse to just ignore those plot strings to make this one instead) The whole Abby situation and switch is just really half baked imo and doesnt do a good job at really setting her up. And then once we swap to her the narrative just get bogged and slowed down, again.
And characters are overall handed poorly and are flat like I said. Jesse just shot in the head, barely ever mentioned again, no one seems to care. Manny dies, Abby doesn't seem to give a shit, and both he and Jesse die for shock value. Nothing wrong with shock value but damn is it lame when the game relies so heavily on it. I mean when Manny was shot I looked down at my phone for a second, and then he died and I pretty much just looked up like:
Its just hard to really care about these characters because they are so under developed. And it falls for the trap ANF did with the dumb flashbacks with Kenny and Jane in episode 4. They are dead, it doesnt matter. And thats a big problem with this game. Joel flashbacks for the most part are not that important to the plot. Us killing Abby's people and then swapping to Abby before they die. I already know their fate Im not going to get invested no matter how hard you try, youre already putting me in the shoes of a character I've just spent the last 10 hours trying to seek revenge on just after she killed Jesse. It just made me feel nothing for these characters because how the story flowed- there was no reason to. Their flat, and disposable and are disposed of.
For things I did like. I liked what it was trying to do with dealing with losing someone you care about, and I do like how the guitar at the end represents moving on from a loved one as Ellie can no longer play guitar Joel gave her. I actually like this a lot. A lot a lot. The tone and atmosphere is perfectly set, and it is pretty sad seeing Joel and Ellie's last conversation not being the best final memory to have of a loved one. Its not a horrible last memory, but its one that leaves you with regret. Gives that feeling to remember to tell your loved ones you love them because one day will be the last day you tell them. Which sadly it is disappointing that this ending is attached to this story.
The thing about this game is there are so many problems, but there are some really great parts tucked in there, the issue is really the execution and the build up to how we got there. It makes me wish this focused way more on loss than revenge. That ending feels kinda silly because of how we got there, had events played out differently I think it would have been a fantastic ending that would fit the great symbolism it has a lot better. I didnt really like Dina and Ellie's relationship at the start. I dont really know why, it wasnt really working for me, for some reason it felt like Ellie didnt actually like her, but Im glad that as the story went on they actually felt like they loved each other. Farmhouse scene was great. Also Im glad Tommy became more of a character. I always felt he was kinda under used in tlou1 so Tommy kinda became a stand out character in this game with a fair amount of depth rather than being one note. The Joel and Ellie scenes are also stand outs, the museum is great, its just disappointing how pointless a lot of it feels.
End of the day- I think this game is just too bloated and lost a lot of the focus and kinda lead to a plot that was generic, not very interesting, and way longer than it needs to be. I already wrote way more than I wanted and I feel like I've barely said anything theres so much. I dont hate this game even though I feel I posted a lot of negative stuff more so than positive, but I dont want to write a column. There really are characters moments in here I like a lot a few I didnt even mention. I guess my best take here is to say the game feels under-cooked even though its been in the oven for so long. Sad part is I feel this plot for the most part could work really really well, it just needs to be restructured, because the way it is I feel doesnt work out that well.
If I had to rate it, I suppose I'd give it a 6/10.
(Also one more thing that isnt related to the score or overall experience, but I want to mention.)
This is honestly really nitpicky but it bothered me because Naughty Dog is all about attention to detail. (This isnt a factor for how I feel about the game as a whole though.) During the game, you can collect the 50 state quarters. Pretty cool. But I cant believe they didnt catch this seeing how its a main collectible. The first one you find, is noticeably talked about, and the year is also said: 1978. Problem is, state coins didnt exist until around 2000. Im not a coin collector and I just knew that through whatever trivia I have in my head, but I just find it crazy they actually added the state quarters as collectibles but so little research seems to have been done on it leading to some of these coins having impossible years. Not that big of an issue but honestly pretty shocking for a company that is all about the details to mess that up.
Anyway wrote way too much and was 100% not worth the time writing that. Oh well.
I caved and bought it. I'm about two hours in and I'm really not digging it so far. The stupid golf club scene aside, the story and new cast of characters just aren't the least bit interesting. It doesn't feel like the game justifies its existence, but maybe it gets better later. I dunno.
I'm pretty sure Ellie says its better to split up and cover a bigger area to find Joel. I think she said that anyways, which is why they aren't together when she finds him.
Well I beat the game. I don't think its horrible garbage trash like many have said. So I dont think its bad, but I wouldnt say its "good" ei… morether.
For one I gotta say my biggest issue is the gameplay, and probably more specifically the glitches. I have no idea if this was just me, but this was so glitchy it was getting beyond annoying. Clickers being alerted randomly, shot through thick walls and seen through walls, a few times the interaction button just made Ellie spin in circles for 10 seconds before she did anything. During a scene early on where you need to run upstairs away from infected the ai partner just stopped and locked me in so I died, next time I was far ahead of the clickers and then suddenly one just spawned on me or something and I die, then on the third try I get grabbed, launched forward, cant move and can only jump for a few seconds, and then I can run and continue it. This isnt even going over how awkward some of the AI… [view original content]
Well said. I'm happy for those whom the story worked for. But pacing, plot-holes, flat-characters, and more just ruin it. Feels more like a character-study than anything else, and even then, it begs for suspension of disbelief and for you to become an analysis andy to get anything from the story. Good media doesn't require that, it should flow well so that you have the important thoughts and feelings the writers want you to have, and everyone can play it and have a good time without getting bored. Also the characters keep making bad decisions, screwing themselves over. They don't know how to talk or handle situations. It feels like the writers need to interact with humans more. I get that it's a drama, but still.
Main point here is that: The story is half-baked and could've been so much better. Kinda like TWD S2 (although I think I prefer that story and the characters/pacing).
Well I beat the game. I don't think its horrible garbage trash like many have said. So I dont think its bad, but I wouldnt say its "good" ei… morether.
For one I gotta say my biggest issue is the gameplay, and probably more specifically the glitches. I have no idea if this was just me, but this was so glitchy it was getting beyond annoying. Clickers being alerted randomly, shot through thick walls and seen through walls, a few times the interaction button just made Ellie spin in circles for 10 seconds before she did anything. During a scene early on where you need to run upstairs away from infected the ai partner just stopped and locked me in so I died, next time I was far ahead of the clickers and then suddenly one just spawned on me or something and I die, then on the third try I get grabbed, launched forward, cant move and can only jump for a few seconds, and then I can run and continue it. This isnt even going over how awkward some of the AI… [view original content]
Both Abby/Lev get put in a work/slave camp for quite some time and her and Lev are left for near dead and are still alive, so much so that when Ellie cuts Abby down she has the strength to actually have a full on fight with Ellie. This is what I'm saying about suspension of disbelief.
I cannot wait to see Chris Stuckmann and Jeremy Jahns' reviews on this game. I'mma assume that Jeremy is gonna be pissed because if he hated Terminator Dark Fate just the same as me, he will hate this game as well.
Yup youre correct, kinda surprised I kinda glossed over that to be honest seeing how it is pretty noticeably said. I do think its a bit odd it took Dina and Jesse a lot longer to get there but I wouldnt consider this an oversight anymore. Thanks for correcting me!
Lmao fans are at it again. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: I didn’t much care for the first game, let alone the second one, but what really confuses me is how people can actually go from “oooh naughty dog, I’ll succ ur dicc u’re soooo good at making games!” To “if you make a single fucking game again I will hunt you all down along with all of your fucking families!!!1111!1!!”
Srsly tho I don’t get how you can go from loving a company to hating it, all because of one bad game. They made a shitload of good ones right? Therefore objectively they’re still pretty amazing until their track record continues to look like this.
I dont know, honestly I think the story's main issue is its way too bloated and takes forever. I feel it has a really great idea and layout and like I said I love that final scene but most of the game doesnt feel like it really supports that ending. Feels a bit like they knew what they wanted that last scene to be but didnt know how to truly get there. I think too many people write the story off for the wrong reasons because it really isnt as bad as people say, but I I feel it loses a lot of focus especially in the midway point where it felt like a ton of filler for a game that is already feeling too long.
I think time will tell about how people truly feel about the story as a whole, and I respect it for taking risk, but I feel they didnt do the best job of utilizing those risk to tell a more concise story.
Well said. I'm happy for those whom the story worked for. But pacing, plot-holes, flat-characters, and more just ruin it. Feels more like a … morecharacter-study than anything else, and even then, it begs for suspension of disbelief and for you to become an analysis andy to get anything from the story. Good media doesn't require that, it should flow well so that you have the important thoughts and feelings the writers want you to have, and everyone can play it and have a good time without getting bored. Also the characters keep making bad decisions, screwing themselves over. They don't know how to talk or handle situations. It feels like the writers need to interact with humans more. I get that it's a drama, but still.
Main point here is that: The story is half-baked and could've been so much better. Kinda like TWD S2 (although I think I prefer that story and the characters/pacing).
Here is my reaction to the special scene. I'm gonna admit, I think I was kind of overracting at that part. Mostly because the leaks were actually true this whole time. I really apologize for acting that way. But the way it was done was soo garbage. BTW, this is gonna be the last thing I upload on my channel so far and I'mma upload the rest after I finish the game.
So I finished the game. I'm going to post my thoughts below in the spoiler tag, but for those that don't want to be spoiled/don't want to bother reading this, simply put, I'd give the game a 4/10.
Honestly, a lot of my thoughts on the game are kind of similar to what Poogs said earlier in his own post so I'll try not to repeat too much of what he said, but stick to my own problems and thoughts. Despite it's low score, I don't think it's a bad game, hell, I think there are some really good moments here and that a good, compelling game could have been made with some of this material. Some of the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie, while they lack emotional weight because we already knew what happened to Joel, are really well written and my main highlights. The reason why these scenes hit is not just because of that, it's because that was the heart and soul of the first game, and why it's so endearing to millions of people. Let's face it, the overall story of the first game is pretty generic if you were to sum it up, but the plot and characters is what puts it above so many other pieces of media that may try and fail to do this story right. The story was simple, but its plot and characters were complex, and the scenes in TLOU2 that capture the same feeling of TLOU1 are these flashback scenes with Ellie and Joel.
While the gameplay doesn't take huge strides forward, I'm fine, I wasn't expecting there to be anyway. As good as Naughty Dog games have been in the past, they were never on the frontier of gameplay innovations. And I know some people didn't like the gameplay of TLOU1, but I really enjoyed it, I thought it fit with the overall style and it felt more realistic than other games. That pretty much carries over into TLOU2, with some fine tuning here and there and some changes that both add something new and recapture the feel of the previous game.
Where it all comes apart in TLOU2 however, is the story and characters, because this game pales in huge comparison to the first game. Not only that, but in some respects, it feels as if it invalidates parts of the first game, or at least, the themes and moral dilemmas of it. One of the strengths of the first game was it's ending, questioning whether or not Joel made the right choice. Despite being an act of selfishness in saving Ellie, it was also an act that showed his humanity. You sympathized with Joel, even if you might not have completely agreed with what he did. It blurs the lines of good and bad and poses a lot of grey in its ending. TLOU2 takes that away, and turns it into a typical "good and evil" dilemma, that Joel was definitely in the wrong, Abby was a victim and was justified in what she did, and now Ellie has to pay the price (I'll get a bit more into that later). I went into this game expecting a plot line to be dealing with the fallout of Joel's decision, so I figured he could have been on the chopping block, but I could never imagine it would play out like it did. Its execution and timing it happens is what makes it feel insulting, and it makes it come across like this team didn't really understand what made the first game so appealing. Despite his decisions, Joel is a famous and beloved character, but the way it comes across in this game, especially with his death, just feels like he was nothing, and that's not how a lot of us wanted to see this character go.
To make matters worse, we then end up playing at least half of the game as Joel's killer, Abby. And her segments of the game are not only boring, uninteresting, and a complete slog to play through, it ties into nothing of what's going on with Ellie. The entire time you play as her just feels like extra padding, in a game that is already 25-30 hours long, but feels like 50-60 hours. It's as if the first half of Batman: The Killing Joke movie adaptation and the casino plot line from The Last Jedi had a baby, but the pregnancy was filled with excessive drinking and smoking, the baby was born prematurely, and had to be kept on life support for weeks just to keep it alive. That's how Abby's segments feel in this game. I was playing as her for so long, I completely forgot that we were also playing as Ellie. Nothing that happens in this part of the game ties into anything with Ellie, or what is supposed to be the overall theme of the game, until the very end of her segment where they finally bring Ellie and Abby together. It's here because they want us to try and sympathize with her, but it fails miserably. Not only is it difficult to connect with Abby because Neil decided to play fast and loose with the timelines, constantly jumping from present day, to a few months ago, to years ago, to a couple of days ago, but her journey doesn't tie into anything in the grand scheme of things. Abby walks away with no lesson learned, she doesn't regret what she did to Joel, she doesn't have any change of heart or new perspective, she's not apologetic. She's not even a changed person, she goes through no growth, and that doesn't fit in line with the theme and message of the Ellie segments, which I took as revenge is just an endless cycle of killing and accomplishes nothing in the end and only hurts you. But Abby is able to get her revenge on Joel for what he did to her father, and she's able to escape, both from Ellie and at the end of the game, and live. The game is so convoluted, not complex, that it's own messaging gets muddled throughout most of it. The writing has no focus for a good chunk of the game, and it often comes off as pretentious when it tries to.
And let me tell you something, when Ellie and Abby do finally meet again, this is where it pissed me off. You engage in a boss fight between Ellie and Abby, except you're still playing as Abby, which makes Ellie, the fucking enemy. That's like playing the David/Ellie fight from David's perspective, it just doesn't work and is immensely stupid. Ellie is not the goddamn enemy, for fuck sake.
Which leads me into my final point, Ellie is the only one really punished here, for doing almost nothing wrong. She has been more of a victim than Abby was. She was denied her chance to doing something good for the world, something that she would have gladly given herself over for, by Joel. She then was forced to watch as he was murdered in front of her eyes by Abby, a day after she was willing to try and forgive him after she learned the truth and mend their broken relationship. Her friend Jesse was also killed by Abby, Tommy was shot in the face and is still physically recovering from it. Ellie ends up on Tommy's bad side because she didn't want to go after Abby for a second time. She loses two of her fingers in the second fight with Abby. And then, when she does come back, she finds her house empty and Dina and her child gone because of her actions, leaving her truly alone. What the fuck kind of ending is that for Ellie, it's complete horse-shit. Abby gets off practically scott-free, but Ellie is forced to suffer because of something she originally had no control over. Sure, this ties into the theme they were going for in revenge is bad, but not only has this message been done better before, but that same message is not applied equally to Abby, who doesn't go through any real transformation, stays pretty stagnant throughout, and is able to go off on her own with Lev. Abby got her revenge, and was somewhat rewarded, Ellie didn't get her revenge, and pays the price. Why are you making Ellie out to be the bad guy in this game, she's not! In no way is Ellie the villain, but with how this game is structured and with how this ending is handled, that's certainly how it feels. The entire game goes out of its way to make Ellie suffer horribly, we witness every gruesome physical and emotional trauma Ellie goes through during the game, we feel bad for her, and then the game pulls this and makes it feel not only worthless, but as some sort of karma for her. I'm all for dark and realistic, especially if its a zombie/apocalyptic game, but this was honestly just way too much, it felt like suffering for the sake of suffering.
This overall theme falls flat on its face with its execution. You want a piece of media that handles a similar theme in a much more mature and deep way, watch The Dragon Prince. I know I've been talking about this show a lot recently, but I mean it this time. Basically, the premise is that humans and elves hate each other, constantly on the threat of war with one another due to centuries of wrongs from both sides. Elves can perform magic, humans can't until they discover dark magic, which allows them to perform magic through robbing the life essence out of magical beings. The elves banished them with the help of the dragons, and the King of the Dragons would watch the border to make sure no one crossed. Humans eventually kill the King, years after the King murdered the Queen of one of the human kingdoms, and destroy the egg of the King's son. Elven assassins go to murder the human king and kill his son, who had no part in anything that was done, under a false sense of justice. Eventually, the egg is found by the human princes and one of the elven assassins, and they end up working together to try and bring the egg back home to its mother. Despite their differences and the fact that their sides, and even members of their own family, have caused immense harm and even death to one another, friendships form between our group of heroes and learn more about each other in the process. It's some pretty deep and interesting stuff...it's also a show made for 7 year olds. And yet, it handles this theme so much more effectively than the M rated game for adults. Don't believe me, here's an exchange from Callum, one of the human princes, when he's confronted by Rayla, one of the elven assassins.
Rayla: You don't have to die. There are only two targets tonight.
Callum: Wait two? What do you mean?
R: I'm here for the King, and I'm also here for his son, Prince Ezran.
C: You can't that's not fair! Why would you hurt someone who's done nothing wrong?
R: Humans cut down the King of the Dragons and destroyed his only egg, The Dragon Prince. Justice will not be denied.
Callum then lies and says he's Prince Ezran, and the scene continues
R: I have to do this. I'm sorry, I don't want to, but I have to.
C: Why? You know this is wrong.
R: An assassin doesn't decide right and wrong, only life and death.
C: That's really clever, but come on, really, how does this solve anything.
R: This is justice! Humans attacked us, unprovoked.
C: So it's okay for you to do the same thing.
R: Well no... it's not the same thing. Because we're attacking you, provoked.
C: Then it's a cycle. You hurt me, someone will get revenge against the elves. It WON'T end.
Again, 7 year olds, and it has more thought provoking insight than the adult game, which is trying to make its point through, honestly, gratuitous and excessive violence. I was thinking that the people complaining about this game being torture porn either just had weak stomachs or didn't like the realism aspect of it, but no, I have to agree, this feels like torture porn, especially for Ellie. And Neil, the writers, and directors have to know how much these characters mean to a lot of people, so the fact that they would go with this angle confuses me, because it either shows they don't understand their own game, or they are so full of themselves that they think everything they do is genius.
Wow, that was...much longer than I thought it would be. But hey, I got to reference The Dragon Prince, so I see it as a win.
Naughty Dog is not Ubisoft or Capcom. They are one of those studios who prefer focusing on quality over quantity. They always preferred working on one project instead of 2 or more. The only time they did that was with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. They don't release games yearly because they want each of their games to be successful and enjoyable for everyone.
Plus, they had 7 FUCKING YEARS to think about a good continuation to the first game. Why the hell Druckmann chose to make this story that would result a huge backlash to their studio is beyond me.
Lmao fans are at it again. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: I didn’t much care for the first game, let alone the second one, but w… morehat really confuses me is how people can actually go from “oooh naughty dog, I’ll succ ur dicc u’re soooo good at making games!” To “if you make a single fucking game again I will hunt you all down along with all of your fucking families!!!1111!1!!”
Srsly tho I don’t get how you can go from loving a company to hating it, all because of one bad game. They made a shitload of good ones right? Therefore objectively they’re still pretty amazing until their track record continues to look like this.
Naughty Dog is not Ubisoft or Capcom. They are one of those studios who prefer focusing on quality over quantity. They always preferred work… moreing on one project instead of 2 or more. The only time they did that was with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. They don't release games yearly because they want each of their games to be successful and enjoyable for everyone.
Plus, they had 7 FUCKING YEARS to think about a good continuation to the first game. Why the hell Druckmann chose to make this story that would result a huge backlash to their studio is beyond me.
I wouldn't say its fair to write off an entire company because after all these years they made one game that wasn't that great when the rest of their games are commonly referred to as masterpieces. You wouldnt trade your star baseball player who never strikes out because one day they actually did. More people should probably wait for whatever Naughty Dog does next before acting like Naughty Dog will never make another incredible game again.
Naughty Dog is not Ubisoft or Capcom. They are one of those studios who prefer focusing on quality over quantity. They always preferred work… moreing on one project instead of 2 or more. The only time they did that was with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. They don't release games yearly because they want each of their games to be successful and enjoyable for everyone.
Plus, they had 7 FUCKING YEARS to think about a good continuation to the first game. Why the hell Druckmann chose to make this story that would result a huge backlash to their studio is beyond me.
I dunno. The only thing they can do now is make a new IP. I don't want another Uncharted game after this game. They can also make a new Jak and Daxter game which is what many fans have been waiting for.
I wouldn't say its fair to write off an entire company because after all these years they made one game that wasn't that great when the rest… more of their games are commonly referred to as masterpieces. You wouldnt trade your star baseball player who never strikes out because one day they actually did. More people should probably wait for whatever Naughty Dog does next before acting like Naughty Dog will never make another incredible game again.
I just reached the part where I play as FUCKING Abby. I have never hated playing as a shit character this much before. Not to mention, I never felt bad letting her die so many times by infected and Scars. Even worse, it's revealed that her father was the fucking doctor Joel killed at the end of the first game. Jerry looks nothing like himself in the first game and how the fuck does Abby know what Joel looks like or what his last name is (It was never mentioned in the first game to begin with)? WHO IS FUCKING WRITING THIS SHIT!!!???
Before that, Jesse gets killed by Abby like it was nothing. I did not feel anything for him because he is just a cool dude and that's it. He just gets shot in the head and it doesn't even matter anymore. So much time was wasted getting to reach him and bring him back to Dina.
Speaking of Dina, revealing her pregnancy felt like forced writing and makes me care less for her character. I know she loves Ellie but for fuckssakes, going on a suicide mission for a girl of your age, along with a baby on her belly is one of the dumbest decsions anyone could have ever done in a zombie apocalypse. Ellie could have just gone with Tommy because it seems that he could handle himself just as good as Joel, considering that he goes missing for a few chapters. Dina is such an idiot.
Gotta admit though. I enjoyed the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie. Seeing Joel having a smile on his face is just heartbreaking and beatiful. IF IT WASN'T FOR THE WAY HE DIED IN THE FUTURE!!! Seriously, this reminds me of A New Frontier, when Telltale killed Kenny in a garbage way and used the Thicker Than Water flashback to excuse their shitty writing.
Joel was treated like Uncle Ben from Spider-Man. Both Peter and Ellie last saw their father figures alive after having an argument, then the last thing both Joel and Ben saw with their eyes is their son/daughter figures crying helplessly without telling them any advice words.
If Neil has a good idea for where the story should go in Part 3, then I say he should eventually go through with it. I like what they've done with this and their ideas, even if they kinda stumbled in pulling it off. However, the writers should strive to become even better than this, look for what they think could be improved upon and improve it. Part 1 is so much better told (that's because it's an easier narrative to pull off, but still the characters and moments outclass those of Part 2).
Also I was thinking about what you said about
the abundance of shock-value deaths and how you just become numb to it after a while. I think this only sorta works when you consider the whole giving names to the random enemies you kill thing and the themes of perspective. Which kind of telegraphs how people like Jesse, Manny, etc... end up dying. You basically had 3 individuals (Ellie, Abby, and Tommy) in the majority of the game killing a lot of people. Video game (and most media) logic usually tends to dictate that if the main character is interacting with a named character that they are important enough to either survive or have their death be with some sort of fanfare or at least not just out of nowhere. The way this game does it though, Jesse was just a random guy to Abby, Manny was just a random guy to Tommy, etc... in a sea of random guys they've killed. And the only reason why most of Abby's friends had more fleshed out deaths was because Ellie knew to look for them so they weren't random. Well...except Alice anyway. Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that most of the characters in this game just aren't that good.
I dont know, honestly I think the story's main issue is its way too bloated and takes forever. I feel it has a really great idea and layout … moreand like I said I love that final scene but most of the game doesnt feel like it really supports that ending. Feels a bit like they knew what they wanted that last scene to be but didnt know how to truly get there. I think too many people write the story off for the wrong reasons because it really isnt as bad as people say, but I I feel it loses a lot of focus especially in the midway point where it felt like a ton of filler for a game that is already feeling too long.
I think time will tell about how people truly feel about the story as a whole, and I respect it for taking risk, but I feel they didnt do the best job of utilizing those risk to tell a more concise story.
Although, to be fair, the one complaint that gets echoed with this game is pacing, and ND have never been excellent at that, apart from TLOU, the exception.
I wouldn't say its fair to write off an entire company because after all these years they made one game that wasn't that great when the rest… more of their games are commonly referred to as masterpieces. You wouldnt trade your star baseball player who never strikes out because one day they actually did. More people should probably wait for whatever Naughty Dog does next before acting like Naughty Dog will never make another incredible game again.
I do like that idea that characters dying like that is meant to represent the seemingly random enemies you've killed and how youre suppose to be on the same level as them, but the fact these characters are so under developed and the fact that the characters who should care about these characters deaths barely seem to care or notice I feel really detracts from that idea they were probably going for as I think youre right. Instead of really feeling anything I kinda just had that feel of "Guess their gone now" because they felt really under utilized. I dont know, like I said I respect the ideas this game wanted to do but I feel a lot of the execution was jumbled.
If Neil has a good idea for where the story should go in Part 3, then I say he should eventually go through with it. I like what they've don… moree with this and their ideas, even if they kinda stumbled in pulling it off. However, the writers should strive to become even better than this, look for what they think could be improved upon and improve it. Part 1 is so much better told (that's because it's an easier narrative to pull off, but still the characters and moments outclass those of Part 2).
Also I was thinking about what you said about
(Spoiler)
Cool to see how big this launch is, regardless of what you think of the story. Shows how well Naughty Dog established the first game as a must-play IP, and no amount of zero-score review-bombing could stop the casual gamer market to take notice of the title and jump on the sequel.
Probably helps that everyone's locked in and needs entertainment too.
I finally fucking finished The Last of Us Part 2. Here's what I have to say. I have been a fan of Naughty Dog since I played Uncharted Drake's Fortune which is one of my first PS3 games I've ever played. That game taught me that great stories exist in video games. It inspired me to play other games with great stories like the Uncharted sequels, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Tales from the Borderlands, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 4 and of course, The Last of Us. I supported Naughty Dog for their games and studio management for years. And now, they made a sequel to a game everyone has been asking for years.
Did I get what I was waiting for? NO!!! I am sooo MAAD. This game is HORRIBLE!!! For anyone who is curious about my thoughts on the game without spoiling anything, here's what I'm about to say:
After 7 years of wait, this is what we get? This game is not for anyone who loved The Last of Us 1. If you love that game so much, you will hate the sequel to death. BUUUT, if you don't give a single shit about the story or any of the characters and just want to kill some zombies and people, this might be for you. My main positivity of this game is the graphics. This is one of the best looking PS4 games to ever look at. The gameplay, for the most part, is just the same as the first one, but more detailed and a little bit improved in terms of AI. Annnd......shit, I guess that's it. The worst part of this game for me is the length. It's too fucking long for terrible reasons. Do you have any idea how much I was trying to finish this game as soon as possible? It's almost the same length as Red Dead Redemption 2 and it's very repetitive. That's all I can say so I'mma go into spoilers. If I had to rate this shit, I would give it a 4/10.
Fans weren't kidding when they said that ending was garbage and made the whole game pointless. After everything Ellie has been through, everything that Abby has done to her (Killing Joel, killing Jesse, paralyzing Tommy and biting off her fingers), she just lets Abby walk away? WHYYY?? Where did this shit come from? That's NOT the Ellie I know. This sounds like a last-minute idea. Ellie just let her father figure down. Joel did everything he could to keep her alive. And what does she do in return? Letting his killer get away with that. And what is the consequence of that? Ending up all alone. That's fucking what. If Ellie wanted to let go of it, then WHY DID SHE GO AFTER ABBY IN SANTA BARBARA TO BEIGN WITH? If she listened to Dina and stayed, it would have been much better for her life. Ellie is now alone and has no one to lose anymore. How can you make a revenge story without someone actually getting revenge? Don't you fucking dare say Abby did. WHY IS SHE THE SECONDARY PROTAGONIST? Because she is a daughter of a stupid NPC in the first game? Druckmann, did you allow your five-year-old daughter come up with that writing?
Naughty Dog forced us to play as Abby and playing as her was easily the worst part of the entire game. I don't understand why they thought this was a good idea. Most of her story do not even connect to Ellie's storyline. It's long for no good reason. Not to mention, I LOATHED the part where I was forced to play as Abby in a Ellie boss fight. Why do I get a game over screen because I let Ellie kill Abby? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS FUCKING GAAAAME!!!!!
I'm fucking done. I'm so sick of defending Naughty Dog, they did the same mistakes Telltale has done to their reputation and my fan tag is dropped on the floor. I don't even know what I want from them anymore. Neil knew this story would cause a huge backlash but why he made it anyway is beyond me. There is nothing original about this game, it's repetitive, there are forced character arcs, it has a sex scene no one asked for, it lacks replayablity, It's boring, it's full of plot holes, the og characters are acting out-of-character in some parts, I couldn't care for any of the new characters and everything just becomes pointless at the end. Fuck this game.
I don't even know if I wanna upload the rest of my playthrough on the channel. Not just because I hate game but it's also because the length of the game makes my videos REALLY hard to edit. While recording, I stayed quiet for the most part due to how boring this game became after a few hours. The only thing I can do is post the ending of this game with my reaction and thoughts.
Also, here's a really in-depth article about the 2-year process behind developing/releasing TLOU2 that released a few days before the game. I read about a third of the way through before I had to click away, because they vaguely gloss over spoilers for people who don't know the game -- but if you're a fan, you can easily guess what they're insinuating.
Anyway, that's kind of a spoiler-article too, for you completed people. It's also a great read about the amount of teamwork and struggles they had to deal with as a company, at least from what I read.
Apparently Halley managed to convince Neil to reverse the fate of two key characters... not sure what that's about.
Here's a spoiler-filled article talking with Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross about TLOU2. I can't read it yet because, well, spoilers duh.
… more Also, here's a really in-depth article about the 2-year process behind developing/releasing TLOU2 that released a few days before the game. I read about a third of the way through before I had to click away, because they vaguely gloss over spoilers for people who don't know the game -- but if you're a fan, you can easily guess what they're insinuating.
Anyway, that's kind of a spoiler-article too, for you completed people. It's also a great read about the amount of teamwork and struggles they had to deal with as a company, at least from what I read.
(Spoiler)
The only game studio that I support right now is FromSoftware. I can only hope that they do not dissappoint me with their latest project, Elden Ring, just the same as The Walking Dead A New Frontier and The Last of Us 2. I'm expecting it to be very polished, to have a satisfying combat and great boss battles. If I don't meet those expectations, I'm done with gaming.
Comments
Exactly what I said about this game. If graphics and gameplay are good?(which by the looks of it. It does look good)the story and plot needs to be good too. Which looks like it isn't good and boring.
Oh, in terms of graphics and the technical aspect of it, it’s amazing. Part 2 is an absolutely beautiful game to look at, it’s just not all that fun to play or sit through.
The biggest question is: why did Neil Druckmann put so much money on a game with a story which he knew a lot of people would hate?
This is a question that you should personally ask him but I doubt he'll notice you
Definitely confused about this. Clearly the decisions made were going to be looked down upon by some people -- especially if you're very fond of Joel (as practically every TLOU player is) -- but I wonder.. Did they really expect this much backlash??
There's also the question that Neil says he's undecided on if he wants to make a Part III next.
Given the amount of divisiveness this game has brought, continuing this story seems like a terrible idea for Naughty Dog. I don't think it would be right to make a Part 3 especially when so many are dismissing this game as a sequel.
The Last Of Us has quickly fallen into a cult-hit hole with its sequel, and a possible third game is unlikely to make as much profit as the first or second entries given how this one's been received (and especially with how the public now views Neil's/Naughty Dog's credibility).
Currently, I think it's still a pretty good game, sitting at maybe a 7 for me (but really, I JUST got into the Seattle open area) but it's definitely a step down from the tightly told, tightly paced, engaging first game.
I've got to admit that this is a technical marvel though. The traversal improvements are really fun and the environments and sound design are gorgeous. I especially love how they brought over the open level design from Uncharted Lost Legacy.
But... Dare I say it... With how this game's been received it seems like it's been "wasted" on a game that doesn't deliver its first and biggest promise: an engaging and well-crafted story.
Hopefully future ND titles can achieve that great balance of story + refined gameplay we've had in the past, because apart from the story in this game, I'm really liking it so far.
)
(Also those Infected designs are way more chilling and grotesque. I love hate it.
Even with some new details and some small improvements on the game, I just don't feel anything while playing this game because most of the levels aren't completely new.
Aw, that's a shame.
But what do you mean levels aren't completely new? Like, they feel too similar to the last game? (Overgrown, destroyed cityscape?)
It's kind of hard to innovate and make unique environments for a game that mostly covered all the bases last time. (We had: a Militaristic Shipping Yard, a building falling apart, an old, overgrown Distillery Town, a Destroyed Cityscape, a Sewer Level, Overgrown Suburbs, Fall-colored University Campus, Snowed-in Ski Lodge, Blizzard-infested small town, Overgrown Cityscape#2, a Spooky Tunnel level and a Militaristic Hospital -- also 2 destroyed Shopping Malls in the DLC)
It's not on you, but we've basically seen every type of environment we can see for a Post-Apocalyptic game, so Naughty Dog doesn't really have anywhere else to expand their repertoire. Just make everything bigger I guess.
I'm excited to see the stormy Seattle waterfront though! That's something we haven't seen last time!
Also, (not to overshadow anyone else), but I too have decided to record my experiences with this game. It's just been something I've been waiting for for a really long time, and the negative reviews had me thinking I was in for a "unique" sequel to a very beloved game, which is not something anyone expected from this company. I've also been really interested in seeing other people's thoughts on events in this game.
So far, I just got to the first open Seattle area.
Well I beat the game. I don't think its horrible garbage trash like many have said. So I dont think its bad, but I wouldnt say its "good" either.
For one I gotta say my biggest issue is the gameplay, and probably more specifically the glitches. I have no idea if this was just me, but this was so glitchy it was getting beyond annoying. Clickers being alerted randomly, shot through thick walls and seen through walls, a few times the interaction button just made Ellie spin in circles for 10 seconds before she did anything. During a scene early on where you need to run upstairs away from infected the ai partner just stopped and locked me in so I died, next time I was far ahead of the clickers and then suddenly one just spawned on me or something and I die, then on the third try I get grabbed, launched forward, cant move and can only jump for a few seconds, and then I can run and continue it. This isnt even going over how awkward some of the AI acted like repeatedly jumping in and out over the same cover for 0 reason. Now ignoring the glitches, the gameplay feels dated. Feels straight out of 2013. Theres only a few gameplay adjustments like the dodge being a good addition. If only the camera consistently locked on when I did it instead of forcing me to readjust every time. It also goes on for way too long and half the time it feels like aimless wandering. Thankfully I found the hint button that just directs you at a moments notice in the menu because it got to the point where I just wanted to move on rather than spend so much time looking for whatever tiny little hole covered in darkness I had to climb through.
So the story. Kinda mixed. It isnt terrible but again, I wouldnt say its very good either. A big problem is I feel its very boring most of the time. It takes so damn long to ever progress the plot and then you have to hope it progress it in a meaningful way. Doesnt help this plot is pretty generic with some really flat characters. Most of these characters are really disposable. They dont have much depth at all. Now below I'll go into spoilers about the story so dont read if you dont want to be spoiled.
I'll just start with things I didn't like/felt weak. One issue is before Joel is killed, Jesse gets Dina and Ellie to go find Joel and Tommy. They all leave together. But when we cut back to them, from some reason Ellie is just by herself? Dina and Jesse no where to be seen. So Ellie just goes in, Joel dies, then Dina shows up to save us? What just happened? Why was Ellie by herself all of a sudden? Nothing said about her riding ahead or them being separated, nothing. They even make a point that there are no guards watching the lodge, so what, were Jesse and Dina just watching Abby and crew leave? I understand it was important for Ellie to be the only one to witness Joel's death but that really could have been done a bit better because I have no idea why they seemingly just disappeared. (Ignore that, Im dumb) Another issue is the fact Joel is the one who saves Abby at the start. You'd think this may give Abby some sort of perspective about how the man she wants revenge on so bad just saved her, but she never seems to acknowledge it because all characters must remain one note. Later she seems to show regret but it seems its mostly regret that her friends are judging her for what she did rather than her performing the act. I found it really weird story wise to make Joel save her and Abby doesnt think twice about that. They also gloss over her backstory real damn quick to try and get people to care about the surgeon. Obviously Abby cares but damn, this dude is talking about Ellie as a host, says its for the greater good but wouldnt do it if it was his daughter, and then is confused about why Joel should know- like am I suppose to care this guy gets killed because he really isnt that likable on a human level here. (Also the Fireflies disbanding was really half-assed as well as the reason why this plot drops the Ellie immunity thing because for some reason only one person knew how to make a vaccine. That really doesnt make sense because why would that not be known, written down, or anything for the other doctors? Why was Abby's dad somehow the only one able to do it? Felt like a weird excuse to just ignore those plot strings to make this one instead) The whole Abby situation and switch is just really half baked imo and doesnt do a good job at really setting her up. And then once we swap to her the narrative just get bogged and slowed down, again.
And characters are overall handed poorly and are flat like I said. Jesse just shot in the head, barely ever mentioned again, no one seems to care. Manny dies, Abby doesn't seem to give a shit, and both he and Jesse die for shock value. Nothing wrong with shock value but damn is it lame when the game relies so heavily on it. I mean when Manny was shot I looked down at my phone for a second, and then he died and I pretty much just looked up like:
Its just hard to really care about these characters because they are so under developed. And it falls for the trap ANF did with the dumb flashbacks with Kenny and Jane in episode 4. They are dead, it doesnt matter. And thats a big problem with this game. Joel flashbacks for the most part are not that important to the plot. Us killing Abby's people and then swapping to Abby before they die. I already know their fate Im not going to get invested no matter how hard you try, youre already putting me in the shoes of a character I've just spent the last 10 hours trying to seek revenge on just after she killed Jesse. It just made me feel nothing for these characters because how the story flowed- there was no reason to. Their flat, and disposable and are disposed of.
For things I did like. I liked what it was trying to do with dealing with losing someone you care about, and I do like how the guitar at the end represents moving on from a loved one as Ellie can no longer play guitar Joel gave her. I actually like this a lot. A lot a lot. The tone and atmosphere is perfectly set, and it is pretty sad seeing Joel and Ellie's last conversation not being the best final memory to have of a loved one. Its not a horrible last memory, but its one that leaves you with regret. Gives that feeling to remember to tell your loved ones you love them because one day will be the last day you tell them. Which sadly it is disappointing that this ending is attached to this story.
The thing about this game is there are so many problems, but there are some really great parts tucked in there, the issue is really the execution and the build up to how we got there. It makes me wish this focused way more on loss than revenge. That ending feels kinda silly because of how we got there, had events played out differently I think it would have been a fantastic ending that would fit the great symbolism it has a lot better. I didnt really like Dina and Ellie's relationship at the start. I dont really know why, it wasnt really working for me, for some reason it felt like Ellie didnt actually like her, but Im glad that as the story went on they actually felt like they loved each other. Farmhouse scene was great. Also Im glad Tommy became more of a character. I always felt he was kinda under used in tlou1 so Tommy kinda became a stand out character in this game with a fair amount of depth rather than being one note. The Joel and Ellie scenes are also stand outs, the museum is great, its just disappointing how pointless a lot of it feels.
End of the day- I think this game is just too bloated and lost a lot of the focus and kinda lead to a plot that was generic, not very interesting, and way longer than it needs to be. I already wrote way more than I wanted and I feel like I've barely said anything theres so much. I dont hate this game even though I feel I posted a lot of negative stuff more so than positive, but I dont want to write a column. There really are characters moments in here I like a lot a few I didnt even mention. I guess my best take here is to say the game feels under-cooked even though its been in the oven for so long. Sad part is I feel this plot for the most part could work really really well, it just needs to be restructured, because the way it is I feel doesnt work out that well.
If I had to rate it, I suppose I'd give it a 6/10.
(Also one more thing that isnt related to the score or overall experience, but I want to mention.)
This is honestly really nitpicky but it bothered me because Naughty Dog is all about attention to detail. (This isnt a factor for how I feel about the game as a whole though.) During the game, you can collect the 50 state quarters. Pretty cool. But I cant believe they didnt catch this seeing how its a main collectible. The first one you find, is noticeably talked about, and the year is also said: 1978. Problem is, state coins didnt exist until around 2000. Im not a coin collector and I just knew that through whatever trivia I have in my head, but I just find it crazy they actually added the state quarters as collectibles but so little research seems to have been done on it leading to some of these coins having impossible years. Not that big of an issue but honestly pretty shocking for a company that is all about the details to mess that up.
Anyway wrote way too much and was 100% not worth the time writing that. Oh well.
I caved and bought it. I'm about two hours in and I'm really not digging it so far. The stupid golf club scene aside, the story and new cast of characters just aren't the least bit interesting. It doesn't feel like the game justifies its existence, but maybe it gets better later. I dunno.
I'm pretty sure Ellie says its better to split up and cover a bigger area to find Joel. I think she said that anyways, which is why they aren't together when she finds him.
Well said. I'm happy for those whom the story worked for. But pacing, plot-holes, flat-characters, and more just ruin it. Feels more like a character-study than anything else, and even then, it begs for suspension of disbelief and for you to become an analysis andy to get anything from the story. Good media doesn't require that, it should flow well so that you have the important thoughts and feelings the writers want you to have, and everyone can play it and have a good time without getting bored. Also the characters keep making bad decisions, screwing themselves over. They don't know how to talk or handle situations. It feels like the writers need to interact with humans more. I get that it's a drama, but still.
Main point here is that: The story is half-baked and could've been so much better. Kinda like TWD S2 (although I think I prefer that story and the characters/pacing).
Spoilers for final scene:
Both Abby/Lev get put in a work/slave camp for quite some time and her and Lev are left for near dead and are still alive, so much so that when Ellie cuts Abby down she has the strength to actually have a full on fight with Ellie. This is what I'm saying about suspension of disbelief.
I cannot wait to see Chris Stuckmann and Jeremy Jahns' reviews on this game. I'mma assume that Jeremy is gonna be pissed because if he hated Terminator Dark Fate just the same as me, he will hate this game as well.
From what I’m seeing on social media, this is pretty accurate
Yup youre correct, kinda surprised I kinda glossed over that to be honest seeing how it is pretty noticeably said. I do think its a bit odd it took Dina and Jesse a lot longer to get there but I wouldnt consider this an oversight anymore. Thanks for correcting me!
Lmao fans are at it again. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: I didn’t much care for the first game, let alone the second one, but what really confuses me is how people can actually go from “oooh naughty dog, I’ll succ ur dicc u’re soooo good at making games!” To “if you make a single fucking game again I will hunt you all down along with all of your fucking families!!!1111!1!!”
Srsly tho I don’t get how you can go from loving a company to hating it, all because of one bad game. They made a shitload of good ones right? Therefore objectively they’re still pretty amazing until their track record continues to look like this.
I dont know, honestly I think the story's main issue is its way too bloated and takes forever. I feel it has a really great idea and layout and like I said I love that final scene but most of the game doesnt feel like it really supports that ending. Feels a bit like they knew what they wanted that last scene to be but didnt know how to truly get there. I think too many people write the story off for the wrong reasons because it really isnt as bad as people say, but I I feel it loses a lot of focus especially in the midway point where it felt like a ton of filler for a game that is already feeling too long.
I think time will tell about how people truly feel about the story as a whole, and I respect it for taking risk, but I feel they didnt do the best job of utilizing those risk to tell a more concise story.
Here is my reaction to the special scene. I'm gonna admit, I think I was kind of overracting at that part. Mostly because the leaks were actually true this whole time. I really apologize for acting that way. But the way it was done was soo garbage. BTW, this is gonna be the last thing I upload on my channel so far and I'mma upload the rest after I finish the game.
So I finished the game. I'm going to post my thoughts below in the spoiler tag, but for those that don't want to be spoiled/don't want to bother reading this, simply put, I'd give the game a 4/10.
Honestly, a lot of my thoughts on the game are kind of similar to what Poogs said earlier in his own post so I'll try not to repeat too much of what he said, but stick to my own problems and thoughts. Despite it's low score, I don't think it's a bad game, hell, I think there are some really good moments here and that a good, compelling game could have been made with some of this material. Some of the flashbacks between Joel and Ellie, while they lack emotional weight because we already knew what happened to Joel, are really well written and my main highlights. The reason why these scenes hit is not just because of that, it's because that was the heart and soul of the first game, and why it's so endearing to millions of people. Let's face it, the overall story of the first game is pretty generic if you were to sum it up, but the plot and characters is what puts it above so many other pieces of media that may try and fail to do this story right. The story was simple, but its plot and characters were complex, and the scenes in TLOU2 that capture the same feeling of TLOU1 are these flashback scenes with Ellie and Joel.
While the gameplay doesn't take huge strides forward, I'm fine, I wasn't expecting there to be anyway. As good as Naughty Dog games have been in the past, they were never on the frontier of gameplay innovations. And I know some people didn't like the gameplay of TLOU1, but I really enjoyed it, I thought it fit with the overall style and it felt more realistic than other games. That pretty much carries over into TLOU2, with some fine tuning here and there and some changes that both add something new and recapture the feel of the previous game.
Where it all comes apart in TLOU2 however, is the story and characters, because this game pales in huge comparison to the first game. Not only that, but in some respects, it feels as if it invalidates parts of the first game, or at least, the themes and moral dilemmas of it. One of the strengths of the first game was it's ending, questioning whether or not Joel made the right choice. Despite being an act of selfishness in saving Ellie, it was also an act that showed his humanity. You sympathized with Joel, even if you might not have completely agreed with what he did. It blurs the lines of good and bad and poses a lot of grey in its ending. TLOU2 takes that away, and turns it into a typical "good and evil" dilemma, that Joel was definitely in the wrong, Abby was a victim and was justified in what she did, and now Ellie has to pay the price (I'll get a bit more into that later). I went into this game expecting a plot line to be dealing with the fallout of Joel's decision, so I figured he could have been on the chopping block, but I could never imagine it would play out like it did. Its execution and timing it happens is what makes it feel insulting, and it makes it come across like this team didn't really understand what made the first game so appealing. Despite his decisions, Joel is a famous and beloved character, but the way it comes across in this game, especially with his death, just feels like he was nothing, and that's not how a lot of us wanted to see this character go.
To make matters worse, we then end up playing at least half of the game as Joel's killer, Abby. And her segments of the game are not only boring, uninteresting, and a complete slog to play through, it ties into nothing of what's going on with Ellie. The entire time you play as her just feels like extra padding, in a game that is already 25-30 hours long, but feels like 50-60 hours. It's as if the first half of Batman: The Killing Joke movie adaptation and the casino plot line from The Last Jedi had a baby, but the pregnancy was filled with excessive drinking and smoking, the baby was born prematurely, and had to be kept on life support for weeks just to keep it alive. That's how Abby's segments feel in this game. I was playing as her for so long, I completely forgot that we were also playing as Ellie. Nothing that happens in this part of the game ties into anything with Ellie, or what is supposed to be the overall theme of the game, until the very end of her segment where they finally bring Ellie and Abby together. It's here because they want us to try and sympathize with her, but it fails miserably. Not only is it difficult to connect with Abby because Neil decided to play fast and loose with the timelines, constantly jumping from present day, to a few months ago, to years ago, to a couple of days ago, but her journey doesn't tie into anything in the grand scheme of things. Abby walks away with no lesson learned, she doesn't regret what she did to Joel, she doesn't have any change of heart or new perspective, she's not apologetic. She's not even a changed person, she goes through no growth, and that doesn't fit in line with the theme and message of the Ellie segments, which I took as revenge is just an endless cycle of killing and accomplishes nothing in the end and only hurts you. But Abby is able to get her revenge on Joel for what he did to her father, and she's able to escape, both from Ellie and at the end of the game, and live. The game is so convoluted, not complex, that it's own messaging gets muddled throughout most of it. The writing has no focus for a good chunk of the game, and it often comes off as pretentious when it tries to.
And let me tell you something, when Ellie and Abby do finally meet again, this is where it pissed me off. You engage in a boss fight between Ellie and Abby, except you're still playing as Abby, which makes Ellie, the fucking enemy. That's like playing the David/Ellie fight from David's perspective, it just doesn't work and is immensely stupid. Ellie is not the goddamn enemy, for fuck sake.
Which leads me into my final point, Ellie is the only one really punished here, for doing almost nothing wrong. She has been more of a victim than Abby was. She was denied her chance to doing something good for the world, something that she would have gladly given herself over for, by Joel. She then was forced to watch as he was murdered in front of her eyes by Abby, a day after she was willing to try and forgive him after she learned the truth and mend their broken relationship. Her friend Jesse was also killed by Abby, Tommy was shot in the face and is still physically recovering from it. Ellie ends up on Tommy's bad side because she didn't want to go after Abby for a second time. She loses two of her fingers in the second fight with Abby. And then, when she does come back, she finds her house empty and Dina and her child gone because of her actions, leaving her truly alone. What the fuck kind of ending is that for Ellie, it's complete horse-shit. Abby gets off practically scott-free, but Ellie is forced to suffer because of something she originally had no control over. Sure, this ties into the theme they were going for in revenge is bad, but not only has this message been done better before, but that same message is not applied equally to Abby, who doesn't go through any real transformation, stays pretty stagnant throughout, and is able to go off on her own with Lev. Abby got her revenge, and was somewhat rewarded, Ellie didn't get her revenge, and pays the price. Why are you making Ellie out to be the bad guy in this game, she's not! In no way is Ellie the villain, but with how this game is structured and with how this ending is handled, that's certainly how it feels. The entire game goes out of its way to make Ellie suffer horribly, we witness every gruesome physical and emotional trauma Ellie goes through during the game, we feel bad for her, and then the game pulls this and makes it feel not only worthless, but as some sort of karma for her. I'm all for dark and realistic, especially if its a zombie/apocalyptic game, but this was honestly just way too much, it felt like suffering for the sake of suffering.
This overall theme falls flat on its face with its execution. You want a piece of media that handles a similar theme in a much more mature and deep way, watch The Dragon Prince. I know I've been talking about this show a lot recently, but I mean it this time. Basically, the premise is that humans and elves hate each other, constantly on the threat of war with one another due to centuries of wrongs from both sides. Elves can perform magic, humans can't until they discover dark magic, which allows them to perform magic through robbing the life essence out of magical beings. The elves banished them with the help of the dragons, and the King of the Dragons would watch the border to make sure no one crossed. Humans eventually kill the King, years after the King murdered the Queen of one of the human kingdoms, and destroy the egg of the King's son. Elven assassins go to murder the human king and kill his son, who had no part in anything that was done, under a false sense of justice. Eventually, the egg is found by the human princes and one of the elven assassins, and they end up working together to try and bring the egg back home to its mother. Despite their differences and the fact that their sides, and even members of their own family, have caused immense harm and even death to one another, friendships form between our group of heroes and learn more about each other in the process. It's some pretty deep and interesting stuff...it's also a show made for 7 year olds. And yet, it handles this theme so much more effectively than the M rated game for adults. Don't believe me, here's an exchange from Callum, one of the human princes, when he's confronted by Rayla, one of the elven assassins.
Callum then lies and says he's Prince Ezran, and the scene continues
Again, 7 year olds, and it has more thought provoking insight than the adult game, which is trying to make its point through, honestly, gratuitous and excessive violence. I was thinking that the people complaining about this game being torture porn either just had weak stomachs or didn't like the realism aspect of it, but no, I have to agree, this feels like torture porn, especially for Ellie. And Neil, the writers, and directors have to know how much these characters mean to a lot of people, so the fact that they would go with this angle confuses me, because it either shows they don't understand their own game, or they are so full of themselves that they think everything they do is genius.
Wow, that was...much longer than I thought it would be. But hey, I got to reference The Dragon Prince, so I see it as a win.
Naughty Dog is not Ubisoft or Capcom. They are one of those studios who prefer focusing on quality over quantity. They always preferred working on one project instead of 2 or more. The only time they did that was with Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us. They don't release games yearly because they want each of their games to be successful and enjoyable for everyone.
Plus, they had 7 FUCKING YEARS to think about a good continuation to the first game. Why the hell Druckmann chose to make this story that would result a huge backlash to their studio is beyond me.
He wanted subvert the expectations.
I wouldn't say its fair to write off an entire company because after all these years they made one game that wasn't that great when the rest of their games are commonly referred to as masterpieces. You wouldnt trade your star baseball player who never strikes out because one day they actually did. More people should probably wait for whatever Naughty Dog does next before acting like Naughty Dog will never make another incredible game again.
I dunno. The only thing they can do now is make a new IP. I don't want another Uncharted game after this game. They can also make a new Jak and Daxter game which is what many fans have been waiting for.
I've never hated a boat in my life before, holy fucking shit.
Lol what? Hated a boat? Hey, Kenny did you heard that?
I just reached the part where I play as FUCKING Abby. I have never hated playing as a shit character this much before. Not to mention, I never felt bad letting her die so many times by infected and Scars. Even worse, it's revealed that her father was the fucking doctor Joel killed at the end of the first game. Jerry looks nothing like himself in the first game and how the fuck does Abby know what Joel looks like or what his last name is (It was never mentioned in the first game to begin with)? WHO IS FUCKING WRITING THIS SHIT!!!???
Before that, Jesse gets killed by Abby like it was nothing. I did not feel anything for him because he is just a cool dude and that's it. He just gets shot in the head and it doesn't even matter anymore. So much time was wasted getting to reach him and bring him back to Dina.
Speaking of Dina, revealing her pregnancy felt like forced writing and makes me care less for her character. I know she loves Ellie but for fuckssakes, going on a suicide mission for a girl of your age, along with a baby on her belly is one of the dumbest decsions anyone could have ever done in a zombie apocalypse. Ellie could have just gone with Tommy because it seems that he could handle himself just as good as Joel, considering that he goes missing for a few chapters. Dina is such an idiot.
Gotta admit though. I enjoyed the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie. Seeing Joel having a smile on his face is just heartbreaking and beatiful. IF IT WASN'T FOR THE WAY HE DIED IN THE FUTURE!!! Seriously, this reminds me of A New Frontier, when Telltale killed Kenny in a garbage way and used the Thicker Than Water flashback to excuse their shitty writing.
I'm honestly playing TLOU part 2 just for playing as Ellie only, I ain't gonna continue playing as that b****
Edit: Honestly, I don't know if I want to keep playing this game.
The scenes with Ellie, Dina, and the baby are awesome. lol
Am I the only one who felt that
Joel was treated like Uncle Ben from Spider-Man. Both Peter and Ellie last saw their father figures alive after having an argument, then the last thing both Joel and Ben saw with their eyes is their son/daughter figures crying helplessly without telling them any advice words.
If Neil has a good idea for where the story should go in Part 3, then I say he should eventually go through with it. I like what they've done with this and their ideas, even if they kinda stumbled in pulling it off. However, the writers should strive to become even better than this, look for what they think could be improved upon and improve it. Part 1 is so much better told (that's because it's an easier narrative to pull off, but still the characters and moments outclass those of Part 2).
Also I was thinking about what you said about
the abundance of shock-value deaths and how you just become numb to it after a while. I think this only sorta works when you consider the whole giving names to the random enemies you kill thing and the themes of perspective. Which kind of telegraphs how people like Jesse, Manny, etc... end up dying. You basically had 3 individuals (Ellie, Abby, and Tommy) in the majority of the game killing a lot of people. Video game (and most media) logic usually tends to dictate that if the main character is interacting with a named character that they are important enough to either survive or have their death be with some sort of fanfare or at least not just out of nowhere. The way this game does it though, Jesse was just a random guy to Abby, Manny was just a random guy to Tommy, etc... in a sea of random guys they've killed. And the only reason why most of Abby's friends had more fleshed out deaths was because Ellie knew to look for them so they weren't random. Well...except Alice anyway. Still, that doesn't excuse the fact that most of the characters in this game just aren't that good.
Although, to be fair, the one complaint that gets echoed with this game is pacing, and ND have never been excellent at that, apart from TLOU, the exception.
Ah shit
I do like that idea that characters dying like that is meant to represent the seemingly random enemies you've killed and how youre suppose to be on the same level as them, but the fact these characters are so under developed and the fact that the characters who should care about these characters deaths barely seem to care or notice I feel really detracts from that idea they were probably going for as I think youre right. Instead of really feeling anything I kinda just had that feel of "Guess their gone now" because they felt really under utilized. I dont know, like I said I respect the ideas this game wanted to do but I feel a lot of the execution was jumbled.
This game just got boring and the length is big for shit reasons.
Game is the best selling title of the PS4 and 2020 and is the new physical record-holder for Naughty Dog sales.
Cool to see how big this launch is, regardless of what you think of the story. Shows how well Naughty Dog established the first game as a must-play IP, and no amount of zero-score review-bombing could stop the casual gamer market to take notice of the title and jump on the sequel.
Probably helps that everyone's locked in and needs entertainment too.
I finally fucking finished The Last of Us Part 2. Here's what I have to say. I have been a fan of Naughty Dog since I played Uncharted Drake's Fortune which is one of my first PS3 games I've ever played. That game taught me that great stories exist in video games. It inspired me to play other games with great stories like the Uncharted sequels, The Walking Dead, The Wolf Among Us, Tales from the Borderlands, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 4 and of course, The Last of Us. I supported Naughty Dog for their games and studio management for years. And now, they made a sequel to a game everyone has been asking for years.
Did I get what I was waiting for? NO!!! I am sooo MAAD. This game is HORRIBLE!!! For anyone who is curious about my thoughts on the game without spoiling anything, here's what I'm about to say:
After 7 years of wait, this is what we get? This game is not for anyone who loved The Last of Us 1. If you love that game so much, you will hate the sequel to death. BUUUT, if you don't give a single shit about the story or any of the characters and just want to kill some zombies and people, this might be for you. My main positivity of this game is the graphics. This is one of the best looking PS4 games to ever look at. The gameplay, for the most part, is just the same as the first one, but more detailed and a little bit improved in terms of AI. Annnd......shit, I guess that's it. The worst part of this game for me is the length. It's too fucking long for terrible reasons. Do you have any idea how much I was trying to finish this game as soon as possible? It's almost the same length as Red Dead Redemption 2 and it's very repetitive. That's all I can say so I'mma go into spoilers. If I had to rate this shit, I would give it a 4/10.
Fans weren't kidding when they said that ending was garbage and made the whole game pointless. After everything Ellie has been through, everything that Abby has done to her (Killing Joel, killing Jesse, paralyzing Tommy and biting off her fingers), she just lets Abby walk away? WHYYY?? Where did this shit come from? That's NOT the Ellie I know. This sounds like a last-minute idea. Ellie just let her father figure down. Joel did everything he could to keep her alive. And what does she do in return? Letting his killer get away with that. And what is the consequence of that? Ending up all alone. That's fucking what. If Ellie wanted to let go of it, then WHY DID SHE GO AFTER ABBY IN SANTA BARBARA TO BEIGN WITH? If she listened to Dina and stayed, it would have been much better for her life. Ellie is now alone and has no one to lose anymore. How can you make a revenge story without someone actually getting revenge? Don't you fucking dare say Abby did. WHY IS SHE THE SECONDARY PROTAGONIST? Because she is a daughter of a stupid NPC in the first game? Druckmann, did you allow your five-year-old daughter come up with that writing?
Naughty Dog forced us to play as Abby and playing as her was easily the worst part of the entire game. I don't understand why they thought this was a good idea. Most of her story do not even connect to Ellie's storyline. It's long for no good reason. Not to mention, I LOATHED the part where I was forced to play as Abby in a Ellie boss fight. Why do I get a game over screen because I let Ellie kill Abby? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS FUCKING GAAAAME!!!!!
I'm fucking done. I'm so sick of defending Naughty Dog, they did the same mistakes Telltale has done to their reputation and my fan tag is dropped on the floor. I don't even know what I want from them anymore. Neil knew this story would cause a huge backlash but why he made it anyway is beyond me. There is nothing original about this game, it's repetitive, there are forced character arcs, it has a sex scene no one asked for, it lacks replayablity, It's boring, it's full of plot holes, the og characters are acting out-of-character in some parts, I couldn't care for any of the new characters and everything just becomes pointless at the end. Fuck this game.
I don't even know if I wanna upload the rest of my playthrough on the channel. Not just because I hate game but it's also because the length of the game makes my videos REALLY hard to edit. While recording, I stayed quiet for the most part due to how boring this game became after a few hours. The only thing I can do is post the ending of this game with my reaction and thoughts.
Here's a spoiler-filled article talking with Neil Druckmann and Halley Gross about TLOU2. I can't read it yet because, well, spoilers duh.
Also, here's a really in-depth article about the 2-year process behind developing/releasing TLOU2 that released a few days before the game. I read about a third of the way through before I had to click away, because they vaguely gloss over spoilers for people who don't know the game -- but if you're a fan, you can easily guess what they're insinuating.
Anyway, that's kind of a spoiler-article too, for you completed people. It's also a great read about the amount of teamwork and struggles they had to deal with as a company, at least from what I read.
Apparently Halley managed to convince Neil to reverse the fate of two key characters... not sure what that's about.
Yeah there's a lot of interesting stuff in those articles. The changes they made are for the better.
The only game studio that I support right now is FromSoftware. I can only hope that they do not dissappoint me with their latest project, Elden Ring, just the same as The Walking Dead A New Frontier and The Last of Us 2. I'm expecting it to be very polished, to have a satisfying combat and great boss battles. If I don't meet those expectations, I'm done with gaming.