Customs Charge

I just got a note through my door from the post office saying they cannot give me my items because it has a customs charge for £13.53.

Needless to say I am not very happy at all. I'm not particularly willing to pay £13.53 customs charges for items I've already paid for (plus shipping). I'm taking this is because they had to search the box because it wasn't labeled properly?

Would it be possible to get £13.53 of my money back? If not I am simply thinking of getting them to send it back to you and asking for a full refund of my money, as my order said nothing about recieving a customs charge. The note says I have a week to pick up my item or they'll automatically send it back, so a reply as soon as possible would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Order Number: 5605162400
Order Date: August 14, 2007

Comments

  • edited September 2007
    Telltale Games cant do much about that.
    I think it work the same in the UK as it do here in denmark.

    If you buy anything from outside the EU, you have to pay taxes on it. In denmark its 25% tax. Most times you get lucky and noone notice your package, but if they hit it on a routine check, they will bill you for the taxes, and possibly a checking fee (here in denmark, its almost 10$ fee for that, i have had a DVD where i paid more in taxes and fees than for the game itself, ridiculous, but its the rules).

    A few companies are VERY hard hit by this, i gave up buying from Amazon.co.uk for example since 10 packages in a row got caught, possibly due to the huge AMAZON logo on the box tipping them off :).

    But were you to follow the law (here at least, i think the same goes for all of EU), you should actually contact your tax company/whoever you pay sales tax to, and pay them what they are due each time you buy something over the internet slip through customs without being charged.
  • edited September 2007
    I don't think that's right, otherwise I believe a lot of people would be complaining about getting high customs charges.

    If there is going to be no refund of £13.53/customs charge every package, I don't think I'll be ordering from Telltale's store again.
  • edited September 2007
    what was in your order and how much was the total as there is a limit to amount that tax can be charged on ie if it is less than x then tax isn't charged
  • edited September 2007
    patters wrote: »
    what was in your order and how much was the total as there is a limit to amount that tax can be charged on ie if it is less than x then tax isn't charged

    It was the three Bone comics and a shirt. The total, including shipping, was $63.01.

  • edited September 2007
    You can find the rules about VAT on internet bought items in the UK here:
    http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001454&propertyType=document

    But ill highlight a few items about it:
    If you purchase goods through the Internet you should be aware that customs duty and VAT will be payable, as follows:
    Customs duty - if the amount of duty is £7 and over.
    Import VAT - if the value of the goods is £18 and over.


    According to the table at http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD_009989&propertyType=document the shirt should have a 12% duty rate fee, and the 17.5% VAT fee, and books should either be 17.5% or free, both options are listed.

    I got no clue on the rules on shipping, if there is a charge on the shipping cost too, but without that, youre already looking at around 12$ VAT for the items alone. Then come the possible cost from the post office. I quote again from the page i linked earlier:

    The Post Office may charge you for clearing your package through customs. They handle packages for customs examination and, if required, open and re-pack them. The Post Office will also store packages if customs need to make enquiries; for example, when the contents have not been declared properly by the sender. The Post Office fees are collected at the same time as customs charges but are completely separate and customs cannot reply to queries about them.

    I cant see a set fee on that part, that might vary from area to area, but it should say on your customs charge paper how much are VAT and how much are an extra charge. If not, ask at the post office when you get your item.

    And next time, hope that the customs dont find your package, if you shop a lot from the net, like i do, you will most likely end up saving more from the occasional charge and VAT from the few items they do find, than buying the items in a UK store and paying 17.5% VAT on every item.


    And as extra info, Jersey and Guernsey are outside EU regulations, and thus are shops from there (like play.com that i buy from a lot), also in the risk group of getting extra cost at the customs office. You should always bear that in mind when shopping over the net. If an item are only a few % cheaper from buying from non-EU countries, its not always worth the risk.
  • edited September 2007
    You say I'm looking at a $12 charge. I'm being charged $27.40, a $2 post office handling fee being included in that.

    If being charged £13.53 customs for my items is normal, it is seriously the last time I ever order from Telltale's store, like I said earlier.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    I just responded to the email you sent to support. Please ask customs what value is listed on the form. We had a few reports of incorrect values being listed on the forms, and in that case, Digital River should be able to contact customs and get it straightened out. If the value is correct, though, I'm afraid there isn't anything we can do about it.

    We've had very few complaints about customs fees (in fact, I can't remember any until this week), which makes me think that it hasn't been an issue for most of our customers. I don't know if that means that the packages usually "slip through" or what, but I'm sorry for the surprise this time.
  • edited September 2007
    Okay, I will visit the Post Office tomorrow (closed today) and take along a copy of your e-mail. I'll report back here on Monday telling you what they said.

    I sure hope this doesn't happen for my other order.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    I'll send you an itemized invoice with prices for each order, just in case there isn't one inside the package.
  • edited September 2007
    Thanks. I have printed it out and will also take it along tomorow.
  • edited September 2007
    I also sent this as a support e-mail.

    I collected the package from the post office today, but I have realised it is not the post office nor customs fault, but I think it is Digital River's. I believe they have incorrectly filled out the customs form on the package, thus causing customs to charge me for Digital River's mistake.

    I will be e-mailing and sending a letter to Digital River to ask for my money back which I had to pay because of them. I just thought I'd let you know what I'm doing. If this is not successful, I will come back to you for recompense.

    Thanks for helping me in the situation as much as you could, Emily.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    I wrote back to your email, but just in case you see this first (and for anyone else who has the problem) - please don't email DR directly. Send an email to me and I will make sure it goes to the right people at DR. Also please include photos of the customs form if you can.
  • edited September 2007
    I have recived your email, thanks, and I have sent photos and a letter to the email address you provided.

    I apologise in advance for the rather large file attachment, I just wanted to make sure it was saved in the highest quality possibile.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    I'll have to res it down before I send it to them (they can't accept attachments more than 1MB, I think) but I'll put it online where they can download it if needed.
  • edited September 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    I'll have to res it down before I send it to them (they can't accept attachments more than 1MB, I think) but I'll put it online where they can download it if needed.

    Alright. A private image server online would obviously be preferable if possible, since it has my contact details on it and stuff. :)
  • edited September 2007
    I'm not entirely sure that customs charges are an isolated incident. I just recieved my order of the latest S&M poster and the Effigy Mound book (both of which are excellent). But I was somewhat infuriated to find that the post office here in the UK was demanding that I pay £12.21 in customs charges, due to the goods being liable for import duties and VAT.

    The parcel had a customs form attached to it that declared the goods as having a value of around $47. Now interestingly enough, the person that filled out the customs form has actually filled it in incorrectly. The value of the goods was declared as including the shipping charge. This is not the case, since the goods value has no bearing on how much it cost to ship them, which should reduce the declared amount by just under $10.

    Regardless of this, due to the way Digital River fill out the customs forms, almost any order to the UK will be liable for VAT on arrival. Items with a value less than £18 (about $35) should be free of VAT, anything greater than that amount will be liable for 17.5% VAT in the UK and Europe. There is an exemption to this rule, and that is if a box on the customs form labelled "Gift" is ticked. This allows for the tax allowance to be raised to £36 (about $71) before VAT is applicable.

    The reason that Guybrush and myself have had to pay very high customs duties, is partially due to the fact tax was not paid before the goods were shipped. The customs form placed on my parcel detailed a breakdown of what charges were applicable. There was a VAT charge of £4.21, plus an additional £8 charge by the Post Office for paying the duties on my behalf.

    So while Digital River keeps including the shipping costs in the declared value of the goods, the majority of buyers in the UK and Europe will be incuring various import duties. If Digital River won't change that policy (which I doubt they will), it might be worth placing a warning on your stores pages that European buyers will have to expect having to pay VAT plus import duties on anything they buy from you.

    I know you probably can't refund me the import duties I've been charged, although it would be lovely if you could, but I'd be happier buying from you again if you could warn other buyers in the future of the costs they are likely to incur.

    Thanks for your time guys,

    Pete
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    These are not isolated issues, but they are not issues we've ever had complaints about until about a week ago, either. We are taking the feedback we've received from customers having to deal with customs and using this info to improve the experience. (For example, I'm currently working with our DR rep to find out why we don't charge VAT on merchandise and if we should be.) It seems to me that the £8 post office charge would be avoided if VAT had been charged in the store to begin with, so that to me seems like a no-brainer. I am also trying to get them not to include the shipping charge in the value because that's just ridiculous.

    If possible, please send me an email at emily -at- telltalegames.com with photos of the customs forms so I can see how they have been filled out. The more concrete info we have about these forms being filled out incorrectly (or "correctly" but stupidly), the more chance there is that we can do something about it.

    Also please check your PMs.
  • edited September 2007
    Emily, I have emailed you regarding a second customs charge.
  • edited September 2007
    Well.. over here in the Netherlands postage IS included in shipment value and used for determining customs salary (which is basically what you pay for, and the right to have your package inspected of course).

    I don't have my DR declarations form anymore (since the dvd worked fine I threw the form away;-) but did they not specify 'Package value' and 'Shipment cost' seperately?

    UK custom regulations are here for those interested: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P106_9098
  • edited September 2007
    Hi there, I was trapped in the same problem!
    Well, today I went to the Post Office (ITALY) and the guy behind the door showed me the same customs. But...too late. I gave him the money, unfortunately...:mad:

    34,93$!!! Crazy thing!!!:eek:

    Emily...put my name on the "accidents list". :(
  • edited September 2007
    Mystinsun wrote: »
    Hi there, I was trapped in the same problem!
    Well, today I went to the Post Office (ITALY) and the guy behind the door showed me the same customs. But...too late. I gave him the money, unfortunately...:mad:

    34,93$!!! Crazy thing!!!:eek:

    Emily...put my name on the "accidents list". :(

    You didn't pay $35 pure tax I hope? If so, what ever did you order ?? With VAT at 20% standard EC you'd have to have a total value of US$35 x 5 = $175 ? That's a LOT of dvd's :)
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    Mystinsun, if you still have the customs forms can you please photograph them and email them to me (emily -at- telltalegames.com)?
  • edited September 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    Mystinsun, if you still have the customs forms can you please photograph them and email them to me (emily -at- telltalegames.com)?

    Sure, boss. ;)
  • edited September 2007
    Hello,
    this is really zany.
    I live in Italy, I've ordered the EXACT same things Mystinsun ordered: Season One DVD-ROM (free, because we've already bought the Season on-line), Season One Soundtrack and Season One Case-File. Well, I didn't pay anything, I just received the package!
    This is turning into a russian roulette... :eek:
    ...or maybe Bosco was right and THERE IS an international conspiracy, after all. :p
  • edited September 2007
    chilano wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure that customs charges are an isolated incident. I just recieved my order of the latest S&M poster and the Effigy Mound book (both of which are excellent). But I was somewhat infuriated to find that the post office here in the UK was demanding that I pay £12.21 in customs charges, due to the goods being liable for import duties and VAT.

    The parcel had a customs form attached to it that declared the goods as having a value of around $47. Now interestingly enough, the person that filled out the customs form has actually filled it in incorrectly. The value of the goods was declared as including the shipping charge. This is not the case, since the goods value has no bearing on how much it cost to ship them, which should reduce the declared amount by just under $10.

    Only 12 quid!? I ordered the same items and got hit for £16.61...:mad:

    Mine was put down as $48 though...

    the fact that the shipping was included and forced up the amount I had to pay was really infuriating, and the fact that £8 goes to royal mail is quite annoying too.

    You really need to get Digital River sorted, they are shockingly bad, i've never had any physical item off telltale that i've been happy with - My bone games came with cracked dvd cases, the first sam and max sketchbook took well over a month to get shipped to me, the season one disk wasn't in the centre of the case and has scratches on it, and now i get hit with customs charges :(

    Its a good thing Telltale uses digital distribution for games otherwise I'd probably just give up on them (but then what would I do for S&M goodness...)
  • edited September 2007
    In my opinion I think Telltale should stop using Digital River.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    You really need to get Digital River sorted, they are shockingly bad

    Working on it...

    Did you email in about the damaged merchandise? If something is damaged when it reaches you, we'll send you a replacement, you just have to ask.
  • edited September 2007
    I sent an email to Emily a few days ago regarding my order, and since the post office plays middle man with customs(UK), it seems that there's nothing to do but to pony up the money (in my case, a tad over £12 plus the £8 extra, almost doubling my order cost, and it's not even been delivered here yet!)

    However, I did contact royal mail, and they say that if a charge is successfully contested against customs, they'll refund their charge.

    Hopefully such a thing will be possible, otherwise we just lost the #1 reason to order from America.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    Did they happen to mention what needs to happen for the charge to be successfully contested?

    I have been trying to get info from our ecommerce provider about what they can do in the case of a customs form being filled out incorrectly, but so far they have not come back to me with any answers.
  • edited September 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    Did they happen to mention what needs to happen for the charge to be successfully contested?

    I'll be looking into that when my order arrives (Hopefully tomorrow). If I find anything out i'll be sure to mention.
  • edited September 2007
    It's hard to dispute the value the SENDER has declared, it's also unusual. The 'normal' complaint is about customs having guessed the value of something to high. Which is then countered by providing proof of the lower value via either a receipt or legit looking website (well that worked over here in the Netherlands when I spoke to the officer on the phone).

    What you have here is different, it sounds like DR has written down the commercial re-sale value of the season1-dvd. That value isn't wrong perse, you just paid it in two parts (one to download it and second the shipping costs). Most customers will see the transactional-value for the dvd as $0, but it can be said you paid $34,95 for it months ago (making the downloads an early product preview).

    Proofing that the disk is only worth $0 while it's in the the Telltale shop for $34,95 is going to be hard. Don't think the 'bonus disk only' excuse is going to work. It's just bad luck that customs decided to inspect/intercept your package. Usually you're lucky, sometimes not :(


    That's the big advantage of electronical delivery, no silly taxes or at least not many.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    That's the big advantage of electronical delivery, no silly taxes or at least not many.

    Actually we do charge VAT for digital downloads, which is why it's odd to me that charging VAT for physical merchandise is not something that also happens in our store. It's not like digital downloads have to go through customs. I'm working with DR to see if we could add VAT calculation at checkout and avoid some of these issues.

    The $34.95 is not being listed as the price for the DVD (at least, I haven't seen it happen yet) -- the invoice says $0 and that's what DR is listing for the DVD. Since VAT was already charged on the $34.95 downloads, people shouldn't have to pay it again when the (free) DVD enters the country. We were told that if the DVD is sent by itself, a small amount is written on the customs form to cover materials, and that's it. So far no one who bought just the DVD has had any problems, so it seems the issue is only occuring once you've got additional items in the shipment that drive up the price. If we could get them to stop listing the shipping price as part of the value, that might stop some of these packages from being flagged by customs.
  • edited September 2007
    Has anyone who got the customs charge in the UK paid online on Royal Mail's website? I did it almost a week ago and still no Sam and Max.
  • edited September 2007
    I'm another person hit by customs charges on Telltale's goods - my order of around £31 got stuck with a charge of over £14.

    (I'd be more specific, but I'm at uni and the parcel's at home, for now)
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited September 2007
    Please email me at emily -at- telltalegames.com with your order # and pictures of the customs form, if possible (or if not possible, a description of how it was filled out).

    FYI I'm out of the office for about a week, but when I get back I will be working with DR to try to get refunds for people hit by unnecessary customs charges.
  • edited November 2008
    Why not just not charge non US living people no taxes and leave it to customs in the EU to charge?
  • edited November 2008
    RobW wrote: »
    I'm another person hit by customs charges on Telltale's goods - my order of around £31 got stuck with a charge of over £14.

    (I'd be more specific, but I'm at uni and the parcel's at home, for now)

    Yeah the Post Office charges you £9.99 just on a Customs Clearance fee. I know how you feel.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    Daro, knock it off. Clearly you have a bone to pick over the VAT thing, but stop spamming the forum about it and bumping old threads.
This discussion has been closed.