Tax?!

Couldn't you people have mentioned the tax earlier? I had $14,57 on my PayPal account, but I spent $5,50 yesterday, thinking that would leave me enough money to buy Sam & Max 201. Now I'm trying to order, and suddenly it seems I need to pay one and a half dollar tax as well!
I'm already transferring cash to my PayPal, but it takes at least three more days before it's finished...couldn't you just put a clear warning on the site that says it'll also cost about a dollar more because of tax?

Comments

  • edited November 2007
    Taxes are charged according to where you live. There's no US sales tax on downloadable goods, so I'm guessing you're in Europe and being charged VAT.

    All taxes and shipping charges (if any) should be shown on the order confirmation page before you proceed to Paypal, so there shouldn't be any surprises.
  • edited November 2007
    It's the first time even for me that I have to pay a tax for a Telltale game.
    I was trying to buy Season Two but this time I have to pay an extra of 15% for VAT when I paid Season One without tax.

    So for now I pass, waiting to understand if it's a good thing or no.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    Customers in EU countries are charged 15% VAT for downloadable goods. This was the same for Season One. (MIK0, I checked your past orders and you paid the same amount of tax for Season One. ;))

    Sorry, it's annoying, but it's completely out of our hands. The page in the store where you click Proceed to Checkout does say that tax and shipping will be calculated during checkout. Maybe we can make that message more prominent, but we can't be any more specific than that because we don't know until you enter your information if you need to pay tax.
  • edited November 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    Customers in EU countries are charged 15% VAT for downloadable goods. This was the same for Season One. (MIK0, I checked your past orders and you paid the same amount of tax for Season One. ;))
    Thank you for checking cause I can check only my 40 newer order from the prepaid card. I was sure I didn't paid that tax but probably time made memory less clear.
    Emily wrote: »
    Sorry, it's annoying, but it's completely out of our hands. The page in the store where you click Proceed to Checkout does say that tax and shipping will be calculated during checkout. Maybe we can make that message more prominent, but we can't be any more specific than that because we don't know until you enter your information if you need to pay tax.
    Yeah, it's really annoying because I hate to pay the same product more than it costs. Being in Europe it's really a bad thing for that. We have Euro, a good change with dollar but we pay that with the VAT so in the end we pay more than someone living in US. I hoped that this thing will become better with the digital delivery but things doesn't change. That's not free market. This things happen even with retail game (for us in europe, or at least in Italy, the real change is 1$=1€ when we are lucky) or online game montly fee (in most cases, 9.99$ became 9.99€). The only exception is when there's the european counterpart of the site or service so the price can be right.

    However I know that it's not your fault but try to understand.

    If I understand it right, you can tell me how much tax I have to pay only when you know how I'll pay it (or better from where I'll pay it). Am I right?
    However a more clear messages would be good. Thanks
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    If I understand it right, you can tell me how much tax I have to pay only when you know how I'll pay it (or better from where I'll pay it). Am I right?

    That's right, the VAT is calculated based on the billing address. In our store, VAT is usually only charged for digital products, not physical products, but then sometimes people have to pay customs fees when the package arrives.
  • edited November 2007
    Well the same thing just happened to me, and I find it somewhat unfair not to mention this until the end of my purchase.
    You can easily determine my present location with my IP. Why don't you use it and display the right price? In the end I only paid 28€, because the Euro is worth more than the Dollar, and Season 2 will be worth it, I actually bought Season 1 twice (Online and Retail), to support you guys. But I still feel cheated upon...

    Well anyway, I have to shut down OS X now, because there are some new christmasie riddles to solve :)

    Greets from Germany,
    Alex :)
  • edited November 2007
    You haven't actually placed your order when it presents the tax to you, so you're still welcome to back out at that point.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    Belive me, if this was a quick fix for us, if it was something that we could "easily determine," and actually get it working, we would. We currently use a third party for our ecommerce, and all of that stuff takes place entirely on their end. We're working to integrate more and more stuff with our own system (for instance in Season Two you can just log in with your forum username and password to unlock the game, instead of jumping through weird hoops and stuff), but the actual process of itemizing out your total, charging a credit card, etc, is currently out of our hands. We're always working to make things better, and the awkwardness around VAT is one of our concerns.
  • edited November 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    Customers in EU countries are charged 15% VAT for downloadable goods.

    I wasn't charged anything extra(for the downloadable goods, this season). I don't live in an EU country, but I live in Europe. :) I think I wasn't charged any tax for last season either. At least the invoice says Tax 0.00USD, but since it's so long ago, it's hard to know for sure.
  • edited November 2007
    Well the same thing just happened to me, and I find it somewhat unfair not to mention this until the end of my purchase.
    You can easily determine my present location with my IP. Why don't you use it and display the right price?

    This is an unrealistic expectation. If even the biggest sites don't do this, how can you expect it from a smaller company like Telltale? I can't think of one website that does give you your complete total with tax before you go through the checkout process. That's why it's called a subtotal. Even here in the US shopping online, I'm sometimes surprised by sales tax because the warehouse is in my state, but I know that they have no way of knowing until I check out. If I don't like to total, I don't complete the order. If they added it on AFTER you submitted the order, then you’d have reason to complain.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    I don't live in an EU country, but I live in Europe.

    That's why you weren't charged VAT. The 15% is for EU countries.

    This isn't a rule we made up. It's based on the laws of the country you live in.
  • edited November 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    That's why you weren't charged VAT. The 15% is for EU countries.

    This isn't a rule we made up. It's based on the laws of the country you live in.

    Another good reason to not become a member of EU ;)
  • edited November 2007
    Just an explanation: in the EU (or at least the country I live in, but I think this is a common policy) it's actually illegal to advertise prices to consumers without including VAT. Therefore advertising a price that excludes VAT feels like a scam to us (as it's not something a legitimate company can do).

    I think it's a bit of a grey area how this should work for companies outside the EU. In general, the EU law applies as soon as you do business in the EU, which would suggest that Telltale cannot advertise prices without VAT. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.

    Of course, it's unreasonable to expect things to work the same way in the US as in the EU. Apparently in the US advertising a price excluding VAT is quite common and perfectly acceptable. I think Telltale Games is doing the right thing here, but I just wanted to point out why there would be so much fuss about this from customers from the EU, while TTG probably didn't realize the controversy existed.

    (Also, please note that (1) the 15% VAT requirement comes from a EU directive, not a US or even a Telltale policy and (2) even with the 15% VAT, $1.15 is still only Euro 0.78 which is ridiculously cheap considering that five years ago $1 > Euro 1. So I'd suggest you take the opportunity to get a great game and support the US economy for an all-time-low price).
  • edited November 2007
    marsan wrote: »
    Another good reason to not become a member of EU ;)

    I can count the number of reasons to actually join the EU on one hand, with all fingers down.

    Saying this as someone else from Europe, I really don't think Telltale should have to show EU taxes on the store pages, especially seeing as it'd just prove confusing for anyone lucky enough to not have to put up with the money grabbers in Brussels.
    Maybe a warning or disclaimer as you enter the actual order pages? But I think multiple prices would just be more trouble than it's worth.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    Of course, it's unreasonable to expect things to work the same way in the US as in the EU. Apparently in the US advertising a price excluding VAT is quite common and perfectly acceptable. I think Telltale Games is doing the right thing here, but I just wanted to point out why there would be so much fuss about this from customers from the EU, while TTG probably didn't realize the controversy existed.

    Thank you for the explanation!

    I know that in Europe stores often (maybe always?) build VAT into the price, so people don't always realize they're paying it. That is also true for big online stores like Amazon or iTunes who present prices with VAT built in to people in countries where it's required. Because we're much smaller and our store isn't built the same way, detecting where you're from and showing a VAT-inclusive price really isn't something we're capable of. (Plus it would create confusion for people, too... i.e. "Why are you charging me $40.19 when your press release said the game only cost $35?") So we do the best we can to explain it to people, and the upside for the EU customers is that the dollar is weak right now!
  • edited November 2007
    Also, from my point of view buying something from amazon.co.uk, the built-in VAT rules because the cost of it suddenly disappears in my cart :)
  • edited November 2007
    Badwolf wrote: »
    I can count the number of reasons to actually join the EU on one hand, with all fingers down.

    It really depends on the country you live in. For us, things would have probably been worse if we joined EU completly, but for another country with a weaker economy, joining EU can be a gift from heaven.
    Emily wrote: »
    and the upside for the EU customers is that the dollar is weak right now!

    Yes, I saved about 7 $ on buying it this year, compared to the price I paid last year ;)
  • edited November 2007
    During the summer I boought a DVD on ebay from soneone in Australia and it was defective so he had to refund my money. In that time the value of the US dollar went down. I had paid him $19.95 and when the refund came it was $17.75. Annoying for us, but I can see how it would be cool for you guys overseas.
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2007
    I had paid him $19.95 and when the refund came it was $17.75.

    That doesn't seem fair. :(
  • edited November 2007
    Yeah, hey wait a second. Actually the Australlian dollar must have gone down in that time for me to get less back once it was converted to American dollars. Either way, the transaction was technically made in that currency, so he refunded me the same amount I had paid him, it was just worth less in US dollars than when he paid me. So I guess this wasnt quite on topic after all.
  • edited November 2008
    Emily wrote: »
    Thank you for the explanation!

    I know that in Europe stores often (maybe always?) build VAT into the price, so people don't always realize they're paying it. That is also true for big online stores like Amazon or iTunes who present prices with VAT built in to people in countries where it's required. Because we're much smaller and our store isn't built the same way, detecting where you're from and showing a VAT-inclusive price really isn't something we're capable of. (Plus it would create confusion for people, too... i.e. "Why are you charging me $40.19 when your press release said the game only cost $35?") So we do the best we can to explain it to people, and the upside for the EU customers is that the dollar is weak right now!

    I don't recall ever having to pay taxes on an order from amazon.com before. May sometimes have had to pay import and VAT on arrival though but never at the checkout page.

    You could have the price with VAT displayed on screen before clicking on buy. You know like this? Strong Bad episode 1 $8.95($10.30 VAT 15% in EU) or all 5 episodes for $34.95($40.20 VAT 15% in EU). How difficult is that?
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited November 2008
    Amazon builds VAT into the price for foreign orders. It's called VAT-inclusive pricing. They also have a specific site for each country they sell to, which makes it easy for them to build tax into their price. We have one website that caters to all countries, so it actually would be difficult to display VAT-inclusive pricing on our site, but we do say on the cart page before you check out that tax might be added to the order after you've entered your address.

    That being said, please stop bumping old threads just to argue about tax. A lot of these questions about tax were asked and answered when we were using a completely different store and are irrelevant to how our store works today.
This discussion has been closed.