Have had the same thoughts as you ever since I finished episode 5. I'll definitely get season 2, but I'd be more than happy if we didn't get another season. TWD season 1 stood out as a perfect stand-alone story.
While I do somewhat agree with you, here's a friendly reminder that no matter what, any season/comic issue/episode of TWD will end with a cliffhanger. It's the "zombie story that never ends", and some of us are kinda sick of it.
And some of us will never forget the ending of Season One. If they don't make a sequel from where it left off and tie up the loose ends with the characters we left behind... The game have grown a personal feeling for us and It'd just leave us empty within if we only get to see new characters. Clementine is still out there! :P
While I do somewhat agree with you, here's a friendly reminder that no matter what, any season/comic issue/episode of TWD will end with a cliffhanger. It's the "zombie story that never ends", and some of us are kinda sick of it.
Good luck to them in their new endeavours, I will keep an eye open for anything they develop. Still a huge fan of TTG and yes, Sam and Max please you make great games!
I'm sure it will be fine, the standard of storytelling has been set and i would imagine that they would only want to improve on it, the creation of Campo Santo will just mean more good video games.
Are you aware that you're implying that "tying up the loose ends" would mean "Clementine is not out there any more"?
Kirkman's world is about people dying. The longer you watch them, the more certain it is that you will witness their deaths. I can understand everyone who says: Clementine survived, it was the most positive ending a zombie story will ever have, and let's just leave it at that.
And some of us will never forget the ending of Season One. If they don't make a sequel from where it left off and tie up the loose ends with t… morehe characters we left behind... The game have grown a personal feeling for us and It'd just leave us empty within if we only get to see new characters. Clementine is still out there! :P
No, I'm not implying that at all. With tying up the loose ends we might still see Clementine 288 days later from where we left off in Episode Five. I'm certainly not going to leave it at assuming death is the only way. I don't really mind in which manner we get to see her again, but sorry to spoil your fun; Clementine is a confirmed character,
Are you aware that you're implying that "tying up the loose ends" would mean "Clementine is not out there any more"?
Kirkman's world is ab… moreout people dying. The longer you watch them, the more certain it is that you will witness their deaths. I can understand everyone who says: Clementine survived, it was the most positive ending a zombie story will ever have, and let's just leave it at that.
Nick Breckon co-wrote The Walking Dead: 400 Days. He's also one of the co-hosts of the Idle Thumbs podcast with Jake Rodkin, Sean Vanaman, and Chris Remo (co-writer of The Cave over at Double Fine).
Yes, I'm sure glad that the gunman who pointed that gun to both of their heads and forced them to approach Robert Kirkman with the idea for The Walking Dead Game finally decided to leave them alone.
At what point does it involve skill, strength or luck? None? Okay, not a game. Cool. Glad we sorted that out. There is literally no difference between any of the so-called choices you can make, and there's no penalty for anything. Maybe reading books is considered a game now too. "Hey did you see the new Hobbit game in the theatre?"
Well, aside from the actual action sequences which inarguably involves some degree of skill, strength, and luck, the main crux of the The Walking Dead, the dialogue choices, is also a game. The skill involved? Empathy and understanding of the other characters' motivations. The penalty for failing to do so? Saying something you didn't want to say and feeling bad about it.
It's not a game that tests your dexterity or cognitive abilities and rewards you with bright flashing colors and a number on your screen. It's a game that tests your emotional intelligence and ability to empathize with others and rewards you with a story told how you wanted it to be told.
But hey, if that's not for you, here are some bright flashing colors:
At what point does it involve skill, strength or luck? None? Okay, not a game. Cool. Glad we sorted that out. There is literally no diffe… morerence between any of the so-called choices you can make, and there's no penalty for anything. Maybe reading books is considered a game now too. "Hey did you see the new Hobbit game in the theatre?"
I have no doubt that Jake and Sean supported Telltale's newer style of games. It remains to be seen whether they take their games in a different direction.
And TWD is a game. It's an easy game, but it's still a game: complete with FPS sections, game over screens, and puzzle solving.
At what point does it involve skill, strength or luck? None? Okay, not a game. Cool. Glad we sorted that out. There is literally no diffe… morerence between any of the so-called choices you can make, and there's no penalty for anything. Maybe reading books is considered a game now too. "Hey did you see the new Hobbit game in the theatre?"
Well, aside from the actual action sequences which inarguably involves some degree of skill, strength, and luck, the main crux of the The Walk… moreing Dead, the dialogue choices, is also a game. The skill involved? Empathy and understanding of the other characters' motivations. The penalty for failing to do so? Saying something you didn't want to say and feeling bad about it.
It's not a game that tests your dexterity or cognitive abilities and rewards you with bright flashing colors and a number on your screen. It's a game that tests your emotional intelligence and ability to empathize with others and rewards you with a story told how you wanted it to be told.
But hey, if that's not for you, here are some bright flashing colors:
I'm pretty certain that the main reason they left is a creative disagreement over the direction Telltale's games were heading, especially considering Jake's been actively involved in the old school adventure game community for 15+ years, and it's been over 3 years since TTG had any intention of making a game suited to the tastes of classic adventure gamers.
I have no doubt that Jake and Sean supported Telltale's newer style of games. It remains to be seen whether they take their games in a differe… morent direction.
And TWD is a game. It's an easy game, but it's still a game: complete with FPS sections, game over screens, and puzzle solving.
See, you keep saying that and yet you can't seem to come up with a definition of "game" that disqualifies The Walking Dead.
If a skill-and-penalty system is required for something to be a game (i.e. someone needs to be able to be bad at it) then I can point you to numerous examples of playthroughs in which people were indecisive, weren't able to make the choice that they wanted to make, and ended up being deeply unsatisfied with the outcome.
Moreover, if a skill-and-penalty system is all it takes to make a game, then that computerized exam that I just took might as well have had an ESRB rating on it.
And one last thing: you do realize that choose your own adventures are referred to as GAMEbooks...right?
That does not square with any public statements made by Telltale or Jake. You can even look through these forums for examples of Jake vehemently defending The Walking Dead. I don't know how to link to individual comments, but in this thread (pages 2, 3, and 9) Jake pretty clearly says that he's proud of The Walking Dead. If he was against it, he would have kept quiet.
Some relevant quotes:
I don't think anyone would ever say the Walking Dead was trying to touch the space '90s adventure games occupy, but I still personally consider it an adventure game.
I think it comes down to the fact that I believe there is more going on in the Walking Dead than an interactive movie, or a choose your own adventure novel. I don't think it has simply removed the puzzles and concentrated on flashy story. I don't agree that more has been removed than added, but I think the focus is on a completely different place than it was before. I don't think that I would call what The Walking Dead does an advancement, either; I would call it doing something different. "Evolution," "advancement," and that sort of word all imply "the next step in a singular path" to me, which we all know is just not how reality works. If you look at a tree, over time new branches grow up and out and go in their own direction, and the higher up you go, it becomes increasingly difficult to even discern what the true "trunk" is anymore, but you can at least see what's closer to the center than other things. I think that's where we are at with adventure games and I'm happy to be off on a weird branch off in space somewhere.
I'm pretty certain that the main reason they left is a creative disagreement over the direction Telltale's games were heading, especially cons… moreidering Jake's been actively involved in the old school adventure game community for 15+ years, and it's been over 3 years since TTG had any intention of making a game suited to the tastes of classic adventure gamers.
Some additional highlights for our rare guest Shodan.
@Jake said: I think it comes down to the fact that I believe there is more going on in the Walking Dead than an interactive movie, or a choose your own adventure novel. I don't think it has simply removed the puzzles and concentrated on flashy story. I don't agree that more has been removed than added, but I think the focus is on a completely different place than it was before. I don't think that I would call what The Walking Dead does an advancement, either; I would call it doing something different.
@Jake said: Would I like it if Telltale just stopped in its tracks and made a balls-to-the-wall retro adventure game Sam & Max puzzle fest, just once, to show that we can? Yeah, of course. That would be totally fun to make. I don't think it's likely to happen, nor do I think that the studio needs to for any real reason, both because people here are happy with the things we do make and the challenges we do choose to accept on the projects we do, and because there are plenty of other people making the crazy puzzle-first style of games that everyone loves.
@Jake said: This probably sounds insane, but the two games Sean and I looked at the most at the outset of making The Walking Dead were Monkey Island 2 and Full Throttle. Not for puzzle structure or anything like that -- the puzzle structure of LucasArts games have been examined and cribbed to death by every adventure game developer in the last 15 years, to obviously mixed results -- but for how the interactions in those games make you feel.
Jake Rodkin and Sean Vanaman were behind The Walking Dead and its gameplay 100%. Deal with it.
Don't worry though. Campo Santo Games might STILL steer in an interactive direction you might like more.
I'm pretty certain that the main reason they left is a creative disagreement over the direction Telltale's games were heading, especially cons… moreidering Jake's been actively involved in the old school adventure game community for 15+ years, and it's been over 3 years since TTG had any intention of making a game suited to the tastes of classic adventure gamers.
Publicly, yes. But who is honestly going to trash their current/former company publicly? Do you really think he'd have a career for long in the industry if he were known for smack talking his employers? If Campo Santo doesn't work out, do you think he'd like to pursue a career in toilet cleaning instead? Because I don't.
Some additional highlights for our rare guest Shodan.
@Jake said: I think it comes down to the fact that I believe there is more going o… moren in the Walking Dead than an interactive movie, or a choose your own adventure novel. I don't think it has simply removed the puzzles and concentrated on flashy story. I don't agree that more has been removed than added, but I think the focus is on a completely different place than it was before. I don't think that I would call what The Walking Dead does an advancement, either; I would call it doing something different.
@Jake said: Would I like it if Telltale just stopped in its tracks and made a balls-to-the-wall retro adventure game Sam & Max puzzle fest, just once, to show that we can? Yeah, of course. That would be totally fun to make. I don't think it's likely to happen, nor do I think that the studio needs to for any real reason, both because people here are happy with the things … [view original content]
You're dodging the fact that most of the "choices" in The Walking Dead aren't even choices. No matter what you do it turns out the same way. You can be a total d-bag to Kenny, try to let his kid die, disagree with him at every turn and make him look bad, and he's still nice to you for no reason. You can be insanely nice to Larry, and he'll still hate you and want you dead. Do you know why? Because the entire thing is an illusion of choice mattering. They expect you to be nice to Kenny and mean to Larry, because that's how the characters are designed to make you act towards them, so then you feel like things you're doing are building relationships with them. They aren't. Nothing matters. The ending is effectively the same no matter what you do. The only differences are excruciatingly minor. Like "does this character die now, or later".
It couldn't be more linear. It couldn't have LESS gameplay. It is quite literally pressing A to continue. Just because they trick you into thinking it matters, that doesn't make it actually matter.
See, you keep saying that and yet you can't seem to come up with a definition of "game" that disqualifies The Walking Dead.
If a skill-and-… morepenalty system is required for something to be a game (i.e. someone needs to be able to be bad at it) then I can point you to numerous examples of playthroughs in which people were indecisive, weren't able to make the choice that they wanted to make, and ended up being deeply unsatisfied with the outcome.
Moreover, if a skill-and-penalty system is all it takes to make a game, then that computerized exam that I just took might as well have had an ESRB rating on it.
And one last thing: you do realize that choose your own adventures are referred to as GAMEbooks...right?
Jake does not wish to trash his former company, especially not for the games he's proud of. And I know that because half a year ago, absolutely no one forced Jake to go out into the Telltale forums to defend his very own creation in great length. He did that out of his free will, making absolutely clear that these are his words and not the company's.
Publicly, yes. But who is honestly going to trash their current/former company publicly? Do you really think he'd have a career for long in … morethe industry if he were known for smack talking his employers? If Campo Santo doesn't work out, do you think he'd like to pursue a career in toilet cleaning instead? Because I don't.
You know Jake personally, do you? You've spoken with him at length about his actual feelings on the game and the company? Or you're basing this on the fact that while working for a company, he desired to make that company, and himself, appear in a positive light?
Jake does not wish to trash his former company, especially not for the games he's proud of. And I know that because half a year ago, absolutel… morey no one forced Jake to go out into the Telltale forums to defend his very own creation in great length. He did that out of his free will, making absolutely clear that these are his words and not the company's.
In the quoted words, Jake was addressing the hardventurecorists, pretty exclusively so. The people you believe Telltale has stopped caring about. Jake had no hope of completely convincing anyone in those threads. Or looking in a particularly "positive light" with the words he wrote. He didn't do it to 'look good' to anyone. There was no need for him to engage in this discussion for any kind of company or self representation, and he actually endangered both with this rare and commendable step back into the heart of the community. He fully expected his feathers to be plucked, and sure as hell, that must have been the experience. That's what I'm basing my opinion on. How about yours and your personal, long standing friendship with the man?
Seriously, if you actually believe that Jake would have wished to secretly flip Telltale the finger as soon as he's out the door, you might want to visit his profile and look at the memento he has left.
You know Jake personally, do you? You've spoken with him at length about his actual feelings on the game and the company? Or you're basing t… morehis on the fact that while working for a company, he desired to make that company, and himself, appear in a positive light?
So let me get this straight. You make the baseless claim that The Walking Dead is not a game. I ask you to support your claim by providing a definition of "game" that excludes The Walking Dead. You refuse to do so. And I'M the one dodging. Kay.
But sure, let’s talk about choice. Now, although your examples were poor (Kenny CAN be a dick to you, as many on here can attest to), I won't argue with you that much of the game is centered around "the illusion of choice." That is, the illusion that the decisions that you make will directly change the plot of the game itself.
But here's the thing: that's not what makes a choice matter. Say I choose to shoot a man in the face. The gun jams and he is unharmed. Did my choice actually change anything about the reality around me? No. Did it matter? Yes. Why? Because I CHOSE to do it. Whether or not the action was carried out, whether or not someone else would have shot him if I didn't, the fact that I INTENDED to cause harm to another person for whatever reason I did MATTERS to me. Maybe it wouldn't to you.
You're dodging the fact that most of the "choices" in The Walking Dead aren't even choices. No matter what you do it turns out the same way. … more You can be a total d-bag to Kenny, try to let his kid die, disagree with him at every turn and make him look bad, and he's still nice to you for no reason. You can be insanely nice to Larry, and he'll still hate you and want you dead. Do you know why? Because the entire thing is an illusion of choice mattering. They expect you to be nice to Kenny and mean to Larry, because that's how the characters are designed to make you act towards them, so then you feel like things you're doing are building relationships with them. They aren't. Nothing matters. The ending is effectively the same no matter what you do. The only differences are excruciatingly minor. Like "does this character die now, or later".
It couldn't be more linear. It couldn't have LESS gameplay. It is quite literally pressing A to c… [view original content]
I'm going to step in here before this escalates further.
By any technical definition of the word, The Walking Dead is indeed a 'game'.
If you personally feel different, fine. But this particular discussion has reached a stalemate (since I know for a fact that SHODANFreeman will never budge from his standpoint) and nothing further can be gained from it.
I don't want this to escalate into personal attacks or suchforth, so please. Let's just stop this here.
So let me get this straight. You make the baseless claim that The Walking Dead is not a game. I ask you to support your claim by providing a d… moreefinition of "game" that excludes The Walking Dead. You refuse to do so. And I'M the one dodging. Kay.
But sure, let’s talk about choice. Now, although your examples were poor (Kenny CAN be a dick to you, as many on here can attest to), I won't argue with you that much of the game is centered around "the illusion of choice." That is, the illusion that the decisions that you make will directly change the plot of the game itself.
But here's the thing: that's not what makes a choice matter. Say I choose to shoot a man in the face. The gun jams and he is unharmed. Did my choice actually change anything about the reality around me? No. Did it matter? Yes. Why? Because I CHOSE to do it. Whether or not the action was carried out, whether or not someone else would have shot him if I didn't, the fact that I IN… [view original content]
It's not as if you can just turn it on and let it play it self. As much as you hate to admit it you do actually have to do something to move on to the next piece. The only reason you say it's not a game is because it's not challenging and a challenge does not a game make. It could be argued that there is more interaction in this game than say Monkey Island, 'cos all you do there is move a mouse around and click things. Where is the game in that? Stop acting all bitter and twisted.
At what point does it involve skill, strength or luck? None? Okay, not a game. Cool. Glad we sorted that out. There is literally no diffe… morerence between any of the so-called choices you can make, and there's no penalty for anything. Maybe reading books is considered a game now too. "Hey did you see the new Hobbit game in the theatre?"
I'm going to step in here before this escalates further.
By any technical definition of the word, The Walking Dead is indeed a 'game'.
I… moref you personally feel different, fine. But this particular discussion has reached a stalemate (since I know for a fact that SHODANFreeman will never budge from his standpoint) and nothing further can be gained from it.
I don't want this to escalate into personal attacks or suchforth, so please. Let's just stop this here.
It's not as if you can just turn it on and let it play it self. As much as you hate to admit it you do actually have to do something to move o… moren to the next piece. The only reason you say it's not a game is because it's not challenging and a challenge does not a game make. It could be argued that there is more interaction in this game than say Monkey Island, 'cos all you do there is move a mouse around and click things. Where is the game in that? Stop acting all bitter and twisted.
I apologise, I've only just read what you put above. I read his reply and replied to that which shunted me down here. Booze and 'comments' don't always mix well (as an aside, this wouldn't have happened on the old board as I would have read the entire thread before replying).
I'm going to ask you to read my above post. It's fairly self-explanatory.
And calling someone "bitter and twisted" is not going to help things. Please don't help escalate this into a war of words.
"The Walking Dead is a game product which includes far less player agency than its contemporaries, and achieves its sense of player agency largely through emotional tricks and subterfuge, without offering players real interactivity and choice within a structure that is extremely simple when you examine it pragmatically" is a big mouthful though, and "not a game" functions as good enough shorthand for "it lacks elements of interactivity and is a largely passive, linear experience".
I'm going to step in here before this escalates further.
By any technical definition of the word, The Walking Dead is indeed a 'game'.
I… moref you personally feel different, fine. But this particular discussion has reached a stalemate (since I know for a fact that SHODANFreeman will never budge from his standpoint) and nothing further can be gained from it.
I don't want this to escalate into personal attacks or suchforth, so please. Let's just stop this here.
I apologise, I've only just read what you put above. I read his reply and replied to that which shunted me down here. Booze and 'comments' don… more't always mix well (as an aside, this wouldn't have happened on the old board as I would have read the entire thread before replying).
Comments
With a cliffhanger like Episode Five? No, Season Two definitely needs to follow up from where Season One left off. No question about it.
While I do somewhat agree with you, here's a friendly reminder that no matter what, any season/comic issue/episode of TWD will end with a cliffhanger. It's the "zombie story that never ends", and some of us are kinda sick of it.
And some of us will never forget the ending of Season One. If they don't make a sequel from where it left off and tie up the loose ends with the characters we left behind... The game have grown a personal feeling for us and It'd just leave us empty within if we only get to see new characters. Clementine is still out there! :P
Good luck to them in their new endeavours, I will keep an eye open for anything they develop. Still a huge fan of TTG and yes, Sam and Max please
you make great games!
Fuck Nick Breckon!
I'm sure it will be fine, the standard of storytelling has been set and i would imagine that they would only want to improve on it, the creation of Campo Santo will just mean more good video games.
good luck to them
You can trust this man! He's from Bermuda!
Just because you are from Florida, Kenny, doesn't mean you can go accusing people of being untrustworthy because they are from Bermuda.
Yes! It's working!
Are you aware that you're implying that "tying up the loose ends" would mean "Clementine is not out there any more"?
Kirkman's world is about people dying. The longer you watch them, the more certain it is that you will witness their deaths. I can understand everyone who says: Clementine survived, it was the most positive ending a zombie story will ever have, and let's just leave it at that.
No, I'm not implying that at all. With tying up the loose ends we might still see Clementine 288 days later from where we left off in Episode Five. I'm certainly not going to leave it at assuming death is the only way. I don't really mind in which manner we get to see her again, but sorry to spoil your fun; Clementine is a confirmed character,
who's Nick Breckon?
Nick Breckon co-wrote The Walking Dead: 400 Days. He's also one of the co-hosts of the Idle Thumbs podcast with Jake Rodkin, Sean Vanaman, and Chris Remo (co-writer of The Cave over at Double Fine).
I'm glad Vanaman and Jake will go somewhere they can make video games again, instead of movies with buttons.
Yes, I'm sure glad that the gunman who pointed that gun to both of their heads and forced them to approach Robert Kirkman with the idea for The Walking Dead Game finally decided to leave them alone.
@SHODANFreeman: Say what now?
The Walking Dead is a machinima that makes you press buttons to keep watching. Not a game. Pay attention.
It's a game. Just 'cos you don't like it don't make it so. Not worth the childish bashing.
At what point does it involve skill, strength or luck? None? Okay, not a game. Cool. Glad we sorted that out. There is literally no difference between any of the so-called choices you can make, and there's no penalty for anything. Maybe reading books is considered a game now too. "Hey did you see the new Hobbit game in the theatre?"
Well, aside from the actual action sequences which inarguably involves some degree of skill, strength, and luck, the main crux of the The Walking Dead, the dialogue choices, is also a game. The skill involved? Empathy and understanding of the other characters' motivations. The penalty for failing to do so? Saying something you didn't want to say and feeling bad about it.
It's not a game that tests your dexterity or cognitive abilities and rewards you with bright flashing colors and a number on your screen. It's a game that tests your emotional intelligence and ability to empathize with others and rewards you with a story told how you wanted it to be told.
But hey, if that's not for you, here are some bright flashing colors:
I have no doubt that Jake and Sean supported Telltale's newer style of games. It remains to be seen whether they take their games in a different direction.
And TWD is a game. It's an easy game, but it's still a game: complete with FPS sections, game over screens, and puzzle solving.
Oi, Freeman; you talk too much.
No but really, it is a game. Deal with it.
At best, that makes it a bad choose your own adventure. Still not a game.
I'm pretty certain that the main reason they left is a creative disagreement over the direction Telltale's games were heading, especially considering Jake's been actively involved in the old school adventure game community for 15+ years, and it's been over 3 years since TTG had any intention of making a game suited to the tastes of classic adventure gamers.
See, you keep saying that and yet you can't seem to come up with a definition of "game" that disqualifies The Walking Dead.
If a skill-and-penalty system is required for something to be a game (i.e. someone needs to be able to be bad at it) then I can point you to numerous examples of playthroughs in which people were indecisive, weren't able to make the choice that they wanted to make, and ended up being deeply unsatisfied with the outcome.
Moreover, if a skill-and-penalty system is all it takes to make a game, then that computerized exam that I just took might as well have had an ESRB rating on it.
And one last thing: you do realize that choose your own adventures are referred to as GAMEbooks...right?
That does not square with any public statements made by Telltale or Jake. You can even look through these forums for examples of Jake vehemently defending The Walking Dead. I don't know how to link to individual comments, but in this thread (pages 2, 3, and 9) Jake pretty clearly says that he's proud of The Walking Dead. If he was against it, he would have kept quiet.
Some relevant quotes:
Some additional highlights for our rare guest Shodan.
Jake Rodkin and Sean Vanaman were behind The Walking Dead and its gameplay 100%. Deal with it.
Don't worry though. Campo Santo Games might STILL steer in an interactive direction you might like more.
Publicly, yes. But who is honestly going to trash their current/former company publicly? Do you really think he'd have a career for long in the industry if he were known for smack talking his employers? If Campo Santo doesn't work out, do you think he'd like to pursue a career in toilet cleaning instead? Because I don't.
You're dodging the fact that most of the "choices" in The Walking Dead aren't even choices. No matter what you do it turns out the same way. You can be a total d-bag to Kenny, try to let his kid die, disagree with him at every turn and make him look bad, and he's still nice to you for no reason. You can be insanely nice to Larry, and he'll still hate you and want you dead. Do you know why? Because the entire thing is an illusion of choice mattering. They expect you to be nice to Kenny and mean to Larry, because that's how the characters are designed to make you act towards them, so then you feel like things you're doing are building relationships with them. They aren't. Nothing matters. The ending is effectively the same no matter what you do. The only differences are excruciatingly minor. Like "does this character die now, or later".
It couldn't be more linear. It couldn't have LESS gameplay. It is quite literally pressing A to continue. Just because they trick you into thinking it matters, that doesn't make it actually matter.
Jake does not wish to trash his former company, especially not for the games he's proud of. And I know that because half a year ago, absolutely no one forced Jake to go out into the Telltale forums to defend his very own creation in great length. He did that out of his free will, making absolutely clear that these are his words and not the company's.
You know Jake personally, do you? You've spoken with him at length about his actual feelings on the game and the company? Or you're basing this on the fact that while working for a company, he desired to make that company, and himself, appear in a positive light?
In the quoted words, Jake was addressing the hardventurecorists, pretty exclusively so. The people you believe Telltale has stopped caring about. Jake had no hope of completely convincing anyone in those threads. Or looking in a particularly "positive light" with the words he wrote. He didn't do it to 'look good' to anyone. There was no need for him to engage in this discussion for any kind of company or self representation, and he actually endangered both with this rare and commendable step back into the heart of the community. He fully expected his feathers to be plucked, and sure as hell, that must have been the experience. That's what I'm basing my opinion on. How about yours and your personal, long standing friendship with the man?
Seriously, if you actually believe that Jake would have wished to secretly flip Telltale the finger as soon as he's out the door, you might want to visit his profile and look at the memento he has left.
So let me get this straight. You make the baseless claim that The Walking Dead is not a game. I ask you to support your claim by providing a definition of "game" that excludes The Walking Dead. You refuse to do so. And I'M the one dodging. Kay.
But sure, let’s talk about choice. Now, although your examples were poor (Kenny CAN be a dick to you, as many on here can attest to), I won't argue with you that much of the game is centered around "the illusion of choice." That is, the illusion that the decisions that you make will directly change the plot of the game itself.
But here's the thing: that's not what makes a choice matter. Say I choose to shoot a man in the face. The gun jams and he is unharmed. Did my choice actually change anything about the reality around me? No. Did it matter? Yes. Why? Because I CHOSE to do it. Whether or not the action was carried out, whether or not someone else would have shot him if I didn't, the fact that I INTENDED to cause harm to another person for whatever reason I did MATTERS to me. Maybe it wouldn't to you.
I'm going to step in here before this escalates further.
By any technical definition of the word, The Walking Dead is indeed a 'game'.
If you personally feel different, fine. But this particular discussion has reached a stalemate (since I know for a fact that SHODANFreeman will never budge from his standpoint) and nothing further can be gained from it.
I don't want this to escalate into personal attacks or suchforth, so please. Let's just stop this here.
It's not as if you can just turn it on and let it play it self. As much as you hate to admit it you do actually have to do something to move on to the next piece. The only reason you say it's not a game is because it's not challenging and a challenge does not a game make. It could be argued that there is more interaction in this game than say Monkey Island, 'cos all you do there is move a mouse around and click things. Where is the game in that? Stop acting all bitter and twisted.
Stalemate??!!! Eh...fine.
EDIT: Ah. I see.
I'm going to ask you to read my above post. It's fairly self-explanatory.
And calling someone "bitter and twisted" is not going to help things. Please don't help escalate this into a war of words.
Yeah, sorry. Re-worded that somewhat after I first posted it. You people are quick.
I apologise, I've only just read what you put above. I read his reply and replied to that which shunted me down here. Booze and 'comments' don't always mix well (as an aside, this wouldn't have happened on the old board as I would have read the entire thread before replying).
"The Walking Dead is a game product which includes far less player agency than its contemporaries, and achieves its sense of player agency largely through emotional tricks and subterfuge, without offering players real interactivity and choice within a structure that is extremely simple when you examine it pragmatically" is a big mouthful though, and "not a game" functions as good enough shorthand for "it lacks elements of interactivity and is a largely passive, linear experience".
Don't worry about it