I would of liked to have Mira being abit seductive and suggest the marriage herself. Not in the cell but the scene where your in the "keep"? I think that's what that box thing they're sat in is called. Anyway I would of liked my Mira to be more cunning and seduce Morgyn and be like her why don't we get married big boy wink wink then you can have Ironrath all to yourself but first we will need to get rid of the Whitehills so it is all ours. Then Morgyn will find away to help get rid of Whitehills which would help Asher/Rodrik win the war and then we just need to find away to get rid of Morgyn.
I feel that Morgryn was the victim of character assassination by the writers. He was such a smooth operator before and to have him turn in to a moustache twirling stereotype at the end didn't make sense at all. A good player doesn't make enemies where he can make allies. Even knowing that Morgryn had been the playing against her, i could see Mira that was hardened to the game (like the way i played her) appreciating a better player and seeing the sense in what he said in the cell (namely about the Forrester legacy needing to live on. And it was rather clear that Morgryn was on his own side and not on the Whitehills) not to mention the rather attractive wealth and connections of the man. All he needed to do at that point was to not be a douchebag and he would have won an ally. Instead he went full-on derp.
Morgryn should know better than that. Nobody is a better position to kill you than the person you share a bed with. When a suitable heir is born, Mira will have no more use for the man and can orchestrate his death and simply assume command of the house as reagent to her son.
For the record, i did accept the marriage for the above reasons. Sorry Tom, i refuse to die while i still have a hand to play.
I'll be honest, I was considering his proposal as well until he said Tom would be killed in my place. After everything that kid did for us, … morebeing the ONLY one who doesn't go a whole 180 on her, there's no way I'd let him die. Better to die with dignity, and I love how her version of "Iron From Ice!" is delivered.
Well that's just the thing, it takes you out of the story somewhat when the only explanation for a characters actions is 'it's for the player's benefit/just to move the story along', particularly when it's the writing we're paying the price of admission for. It's especially egregious coming from Morgryn who, up until that that point, was a fairly savvy player of the game. From his point of view, it made no sense to just blurt out his hidden motives like a James Bond villain.
Imagine how much better the reveal would have been if it were Tom who revealed that Morgryn had been plotting against you, then Morgryn tells you he can get you out of trouble using his name but Tom will have to pay for the death of Damien, leading to a choice whether or not to trust Tom or Morgryn - only for trusting the right choice leading to the chopping block. Would be a bit more 'Game of Thronesy' than a mustache twirling villain saying 'marry me or perish, mwah ha ha!' Oh well.
Wasn't he checking to see what she knows? Like if she mentioned how she had proof of something, maybe that would have influenced her behavi… moreor? Seems like a good idea to check for something like that before totally screwing her over.
Whatever. It was obviously just to create drama. So it's not so much Morgyn is dumb but Morgyn is a character in a story.
morgryn: "oh hi, im saving you and you're very pretty"
something snaps
morgryn: "fUCK U mira!!!! im bring you to the guardsss."
mira: "wait, what."
morgryn: "k, bye."
I just played that part in the carriage and the cell bit. I think it makes sense.
In the carriage, I don't think he considered marriage. Or rather, he might have, but Mira's words swayed him to try and marry her in an effort to get the ironwood. This is reinforced by, at least in my playthrough, him saying Mira's words got him thinking during the cell conversation. In the carriage, as for blurting it out, I'm pretty sure he wasn't worried about any repercussions in telling her what he'd done, as it had already been fixed that she'd take the fall.
Regarding forcing her to marry him, you may have a point. Personally speaking, considering how defiant Mira was in my playthrough, I'm not sure it'd be worth it though. Granted, he did say 'oh I'm sure I'll try to slit my throat in bed', or something of that nature.
That said though, regarding good writing and choices, it's a bit different from writing a normal, linear story. What happened when Ethan died? Complaining that it couldn't be avoided. So, this time they wanted to leave it in the player's hands (said in the interview where season 2 was announced, about wanting to leave it up to players regarding which characters die). And if she was forced to marry him? You can bet there would be complaints there too. Not defending it really, but just explaining their possible reasons for it.
PS: Apologies, regarding the forcing her to marry him part, as well as the choice and writing bit. Looking back, I see that you never mentioned it, but I thought I read it somewhere. So,just take that as a general comment, I guess, which may or may not be relevant. (Tired, so before I potentially make more mistakes, going to stop editing the post here.)
Well that's just the thing, it takes you out of the story somewhat when the only explanation for a characters actions is 'it's for the playe… morer's benefit/just to move the story along', particularly when it's the writing we're paying the price of admission for. It's especially egregious coming from Morgryn who, up until that that point, was a fairly savvy player of the game. From his point of view, it made no sense to just blurt out his hidden motives like a James Bond villain.
Imagine how much better the reveal would have been if it were Tom who revealed that Morgryn had been plotting against you, then Morgryn tells you he can get you out of trouble using his name but Tom will have to pay for the death of Damien, leading to a choice whether or not to trust Tom or Morgryn - only for trusting the right choice leading to the chopping block. Would be a bit more 'Game of Thronesy' than a mustache twirling villain saying 'marry me or perish, mwah ha ha!' Oh well.
I'll be honest, I was considering his proposal as well until he said Tom would be killed in my place. After everything that kid did for us, … morebeing the ONLY one who doesn't go a whole 180 on her, there's no way I'd let him die. Better to die with dignity, and I love how her version of "Iron From Ice!" is delivered.
Wasn't even much of a twist, Morgryn had that discount Littlefinger vibe from the start,. At least i hope he has a lot of gold and maybe some land, which will belong to Mira, when she kills this Saturday morning cartoon runaway.
Comments
I would of liked to have Mira being abit seductive and suggest the marriage herself. Not in the cell but the scene where your in the "keep"? I think that's what that box thing they're sat in is called. Anyway I would of liked my Mira to be more cunning and seduce Morgyn and be like her why don't we get married big boy wink wink then you can have Ironrath all to yourself but first we will need to get rid of the Whitehills so it is all ours. Then Morgyn will find away to help get rid of Whitehills which would help Asher/Rodrik win the war and then we just need to find away to get rid of Morgyn.
I feel that Morgryn was the victim of character assassination by the writers. He was such a smooth operator before and to have him turn in to a moustache twirling stereotype at the end didn't make sense at all. A good player doesn't make enemies where he can make allies. Even knowing that Morgryn had been the playing against her, i could see Mira that was hardened to the game (like the way i played her) appreciating a better player and seeing the sense in what he said in the cell (namely about the Forrester legacy needing to live on. And it was rather clear that Morgryn was on his own side and not on the Whitehills) not to mention the rather attractive wealth and connections of the man. All he needed to do at that point was to not be a douchebag and he would have won an ally. Instead he went full-on derp.
Morgryn should know better than that. Nobody is a better position to kill you than the person you share a bed with. When a suitable heir is born, Mira will have no more use for the man and can orchestrate his death and simply assume command of the house as reagent to her son.
For the record, i did accept the marriage for the above reasons. Sorry Tom, i refuse to die while i still have a hand to play.
My Mira would have rather died than marry Morgryn, so that's what she did. I actually cried, I feel your pain.
I let Tom die. It sucked, but I figured Mira at least has a chance to restore house forrester
Well that's just the thing, it takes you out of the story somewhat when the only explanation for a characters actions is 'it's for the player's benefit/just to move the story along', particularly when it's the writing we're paying the price of admission for. It's especially egregious coming from Morgryn who, up until that that point, was a fairly savvy player of the game. From his point of view, it made no sense to just blurt out his hidden motives like a James Bond villain.
Imagine how much better the reveal would have been if it were Tom who revealed that Morgryn had been plotting against you, then Morgryn tells you he can get you out of trouble using his name but Tom will have to pay for the death of Damien, leading to a choice whether or not to trust Tom or Morgryn - only for trusting the right choice leading to the chopping block. Would be a bit more 'Game of Thronesy' than a mustache twirling villain saying 'marry me or perish, mwah ha ha!' Oh well.
I don't get why he asks Mira to marry him and doesn't just force her to. Surely he has that power?
morgryn: "oh hi, im saving you and you're very pretty"
something snaps
morgryn: "fUCK U mira!!!! im bring you to the guardsss."
mira: "wait, what."
morgryn: "k, bye."
Exactly how i feel
You forgot .. "GET THE FOOK OUT ME LITTER B!TCH"
I just played that part in the carriage and the cell bit. I think it makes sense.
In the carriage, I don't think he considered marriage. Or rather, he might have, but Mira's words swayed him to try and marry her in an effort to get the ironwood. This is reinforced by, at least in my playthrough, him saying Mira's words got him thinking during the cell conversation. In the carriage, as for blurting it out, I'm pretty sure he wasn't worried about any repercussions in telling her what he'd done, as it had already been fixed that she'd take the fall.
Regarding forcing her to marry him, you may have a point. Personally speaking, considering how defiant Mira was in my playthrough, I'm not sure it'd be worth it though. Granted, he did say 'oh I'm sure I'll try to slit my throat in bed', or something of that nature.
That said though, regarding good writing and choices, it's a bit different from writing a normal, linear story. What happened when Ethan died? Complaining that it couldn't be avoided. So, this time they wanted to leave it in the player's hands (said in the interview where season 2 was announced, about wanting to leave it up to players regarding which characters die). And if she was forced to marry him? You can bet there would be complaints there too. Not defending it really, but just explaining their possible reasons for it.
PS: Apologies, regarding the forcing her to marry him part, as well as the choice and writing bit. Looking back, I see that you never mentioned it, but I thought I read it somewhere. So,just take that as a general comment, I guess, which may or may not be relevant. (Tired, so before I potentially make more mistakes, going to stop editing the post here.)
All I ask from a character death is the opportunity to shout, "Fire from Ice!" Although Ryon's is the best.
Wasn't even much of a twist, Morgryn had that discount Littlefinger vibe from the start,. At least i hope he has a lot of gold and maybe some land, which will belong to Mira, when she kills this Saturday morning cartoon runaway.
To be fair, he does threaten her with death. Not much to do beyond that.