Between Rodrik and Asher, which do you think had the more difficult life?
Not just including the events of the game, but also their childhood and upbringing.
Me personally, I think Rodrik had it harder. Sure, he was Gregor's favorite I surmise, but everyone says since the day Rodrik was born, he was expected to be a lord in the making. That means the immaturity of youth was something not permitted for him.
Asher had it rough too though, being second born and having a chip on his shoulder for possibly being disregarded somewhat by Gregor.
What do you think?
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Rodrik, I mean he saw his dead father right in front him, that is traumatizing.
I'd say Rodrik.
They both have a difficult life, but Rodrik has it worse. He has grown up knowing that he has to bear the burden of leadership when his father passes and he become Lord of his House in the worst possible time and position. He returns home in a broken and humiliating state, his home and family being constantly threaten and bullied by their enemies the Whitehills and he has to lead his home despite all of his pain and weakened state.
While Asher has it hard too, he adapted to the life in Essos and seems to be good at being a mercenary with Beskha.
I'm thinking Asher. I imagine he was pretty happy at Ironrath given he often sneaked out brawling and whoring. But his own family sent him away for being with who he loved and he didn't hear anything from them until they need something from him. Not to mention that when he gets home (determinant) half his family is gone and two of the remaining ones die to save him and he is forced to bear a responsibility he never wanted.
They both had pretty difficult lives, but I think the answer is quite an easy one nevertheless: Rodrik.
Undoubtedly, being exiled must have been very difficult. However, Asher met Beskha early on, and together they have a relationship that is tantamount to family. They constantly reference their many adventures, all in good spirit as well. Also, as you say, Asher never had the pressure of knowing one-day, he had to rule the entire House.
Rodrik fought for the north for years, and then witnessed its destruction first-hand at the Twins. He then receives brutal, crippling injuries, and is thrown into a corpse cart alongside the bodies of his father and friends. After that, he returns to his home to find it occupied by their greatest and oldest enemy, while he is unable to do anything about it. Also, his youngest brother just got brutally murdered. He is then forced to take humiliation after humiliation, and punishment after punishment. And what does he get for all of it? Either a brutal death at the hands of Harys and Gryff Whitehill, or a siege of Ironrath, where he watches the place he's barely held together the entire game, get burnt all around him. Oh, and he watches his people die... again. Then get hugely painful and debilitating injuries... again. And then, just for good measure, he watches his Mother die too.
I understand, of course, the latter half of that can happen to Asher too, but I personally don't think it's quite as tragic in that case. There's something so, so awful about Rodrik watching Ironrath get swarmed by Whitehills. It feels so much more raw and heartbreaking than with Asher. Not that it's not incredibly heartbreaking in both scenarios, of course it is, but...
Anyway, yes, imo Rodrik had the hardest life.
Nice summary there, John-Dee. Rodrik is the true fashioned hero for sure, and I think having to live as your father's shadow would make growing up not too fun. Unlike Asher, I don't think Rodrik ever experienced "fun" like most teenage men do. And I'm sure he was jealous of Asher at times as well for it. Just like his story to Beskha if he survived and Asher died.. He remembered getting plastered with his brother, and I think it happened so little that he held onto those memories of where he got to let go, even for just a bit.
With all your examples though, DAYUM did it feel good to behead Ludd or Gryff! Killing them with Asher didn't feel nearly as satisfying. Forced in a sense.
Thank you!
And yes, I feel the same way. I love Asher. I think he's an amazing character, and I cried when I had to leave him. But, Game of Thrones really is Rodrik's story. And it doesn't feel right Asher watching Ironrath burn... Asher killing Gryff or Ludd... Asher was a heroic badass, and a super cool guy, but I just couldn't imagine him not volunteering to make the sacrifice.
And Rodrik, of course, HAD to be the one to go out and wreck some Whitehills. No-one deserved to do it more. No-one.
Asher: Rodrik before the twins incident never really had a difficult life. Being the lord is difficult, but rodrik lived with his family
Right, because fighting the hugely outnumbering House Lannister in The War of Five Kings must have been so easy.
So, because Rodrik lived with his family, the difficulties of being lord -- which you yourself recognized -- somehow don't matter?
Rodrik felt his family loved him dearly, imagine yourself, sleeping across the narrow sea without your family. He did have a hard life to adjust to, but his duty did not go unrewarded. Asher just survived without his family struggling to live every day
But, with the exception of Gregor, all evidence shows all the Forresters loved Asher, and he loved them. Sure, being sent away must have been very difficult -- but by sending Asher away, he was saved from having to partake in The War of the Five Kings, the Whitehill Occupation of Ironrath, and so forth. For all the negatives of Asher's exile, at least it had many positives--him and Beskha clearly had plenty of fun on their travels.
I don't think Rodrik had much fun fighting the Lannisters, getting crippled, then taking on the burden of leading House Forrester when it had no income, no soldiers, no allies, and a castle filled with Whitehills. I'm not trying to say Asher didn't have a hard life, of course he did. I say as much in my proper post.
But there's nothing that compares to some of the stuff Rodrik has to go through, however.
Of course, Rodrik had a hard life, I actually think rodrik wanted to hurt himself sometimes. I think only until episodes 4,5, and 6 did he actually want to live
Which is why he's my favourite character.
Somehow, he manages to cope with everything that's thrown at him in stride. And above all else, he continues to care about everyone around him. Then again, he has that in common with Asher -- they are both super selfless.
I feel like Asher's death in episode 5 really does not work but his injuries in episode 6 work so much better. Asher was one of those character that would fight for his family till the end keeping that comedic, Han Solo, heart of gold act. Rodrik on the other hand is like a Gandalf, wounded warrior act. Him dying in episode 5 fits very well. He is someone that would sacrifice himself for everyone, someone who has unconditional love for the ones he cares about, his death in episode 5 is much more touching than asher's
I feel the opposite, but each to their own, and I've said my piece now anyway.
I do agree with TellTaleRocks about the conundrum that is Rodrik or Asher being left behind. Rodrik will never fully recover and is an awesome man, has such a graceful heart you can tell. He loves his family above all else, and I think if the situation truly did present itself, he would not have allowed younger brother Asher to die in his place. Especially because Asher was at full strength and like Han Solo, has so much potential.
Too bad Gryff didn't get a big head and challenge Rodrik at the end of episode 5 because he underestimated his rival. If we could have killed Gryff with Rodrik after leaving him behind, then Rodrik is killed by Harys and the other Whitehill soldiers, I'd have been very satisfied.
Quoting GoT:
It's a medieval society. One expects to serve your elder brother, morever when he's a lord.
Rodrick is Lord of Ironrath. It doesn't make that much sense that Asher let this happen imo.
On the other hand Asher went back from Essos so it proves he cares hugely for his family.
Quoting his mother:
So it's more in his nature to sacrifice himself/protect others people.