Battle of the bastard & it's lost original ending
When I first watch on my TV the battle of the bastards;with that poor plot twists and rare battle scenes,I knew something was off.
The history of the show demonstrate the fans that D&D techniques as producers and understanding of the asoiaf universe are not of the best kind.Their interpretation of Dorne(You want the good girl...) and with Stannis' ambition were not the only points of their failure.
Not to mention their adaptation Talia's/Jeyne,only to show that the actor Richard Maiden could be romantic.
Here I bring a video of the Dragon Demands that treats and explains what happened to this original script of the battle.I also recommend his other videos and channel.IT'S A LONG VIDEO but this atrocities of this "professionals" need to be denounced.
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Let me know your opinion on the comments 
Comments
You really are passionate about hating on the show, aren't you? Have you ever considered just letting people who enjoy it enjoy it and instead concentrate on something you enjoy yourself? You talk big about the books, yet you seem much more obsessed with the show and what you see as its "shortcomings". Why not just make a thread about the books? I'll never understand these people who are obsessed with hating on the show.
Man seriously,I'm creating debate not forcing you to hate anything.I recommend watch the video,value the arguments that are discussed in it.
And then if you have the same problems with my posts boy,we'll speak don't worry.
But don't treat this as poor content;it deserves your attention please have the patience to develope a complete opinion about this matter.But don't pay it with me nor my posts!
Nah, I've seen a lot of comments from Dragon Demands on WotW, and come to the conclusion he is a dogmatic book purist. I'm not going to waste my time on his videos.
I have to agree with Wildling here. So much of your negative opinions on the show seem to simply be because "The bookd are better"
I don't know guys,this producers had the material to do great things.At the end we are watching an adaptation of the books and believe me I don't enjoy critiquing the media.I would be the first who would enjoy it if it actually was better.
My final impression about the show is that they ruined characters and pass over important storylines that without them it feels empty and sometimes meaningless (Why you put Dorne in to make Irina Varma look cool?Why you create the BOB and cut Lord Manderly and others relevance in The North ?,when you have the time and the means to make it possible).
If you guys are satisfied with the content and you do say that it's enough,I can say that a curious audience should care about this things and demand quality.
But anyways I'm happy to bring this topic around here and beyond all let people develop their own opinion,don't make the show a sacred cow that can't be touch nor criticize
To all this people who like the comments and see the post,Did you watch part of the video at least?
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Give it an opportunity and then judge but not before ,That's what I thought about this that you don't develop your own opinion
They had the material that was considered impossible to adapt to screen, and they molded into the most succesful tv show HBO has ever had. Even if you're irked with some decisions made in the writing (and yes, obviously there have been misteps and things that could've been done better, which show doesn't have?), you can't deny the cinematic quality and production value, the amazing acting, the awe inspiring music, etc. There is a lot of work and care put into GoT, and these people truly care about telling a good story. And let's be honest, if the writing really was as shit as you seem to think it is, this show wouldn't be as loved as it is. And as said before, I feel like so often your critique just boils down to "What? They did this differently than in the books? BAD!" And that's not to say there aren't acutal flaws to point out in the show (and in the books too, btw), but it seems sometimes you are not interested in whether they tell a good story, but rather if they can copy exactly what's in the novels.
The limitations of 10-hour seasons when compared to the massive books seems to be completely lost on you. The show has walked on the line of almost having too much characters and storylines to make a dynamic tv show (hence many casual fans not remembering all the names), so they can't do what GRRM has done - add more and more and more as the story progresses. Especially now in the later seasons, when they should be trimming away from sideplots and new elements that are not needed, and starting to concentrate on the climax of the story. So no, they don't have the time and means to do everything from the books. Quite frankly right now it seems like GRRM doesn't have the time and means to implement his massive story even in book format! Things have to be streamlined, made adaptable, and GoT has done good job doing that while still staying true to the themes and overarching story of the books.
And I have criticized the show when I have thought something is off. However, usually this show has done excellent job at telling a great story and being entertaining. And what comes to demanding quality, there are few shows on TV with quality as high as GoT, none in the fantasy genre.
Hey it's nice to see you participating on the post(and not only critiquing it) anyways happy to see your comment!
All this arguing might have come over a misunderstanding.You have a point I can't deny the good acting and the music(well could have been treated better),didn't you see how the quality of the show have lowered season past season?As I've told before I was a huge fan on the show in seasons 1-4 and I would continue without doubt.
Seriously man you can't deny me that working with good material have the advantages of getting(no matter how you play with it) fans eager to like your product.
The story they tell us in the show is full of topics,I mean a comical relief,we did get a romance out of nowhere even revenge(In more ways than one)let me put an example:BOB is a production that actually had a different planning and a different showing.Having 42 days for making it and becouse careless judgement(The producers ignoring the director) that told them that the horse training of 70, horses couldn't have been done in the 2 weeks they asked for.I mean the worrying thing about this is that they actually did(D&D) was put all the season efforts in one battle caring nothing about the plot they could adapt (don't criticize for saying it) they could have put on.The error they had involved lower quality (time-spenders) in season 6.
Like you say they don't have to copy all from the books but the plots they copy the major of times don't engage the fans and which they left out it's book reader's favourite.They have the writing skills to make this last season's better,they go for a massive battle and throw the rest out(that's their idea).Ah mate the season hour limitation is an important point...They waste time performing storylines(like Dorne,the Greyjoys in the worst manner,Ramsay torturing people and who knows what...)
When they could perform other ones more engaging along Westeros that the fans would like more(Balon's attempt of getting the North developed not only mentioned,Jaime's travel through the Riverlands...).They failed on the selection of main stories to portrayed.Did I say the main reason they did Dorne was because they like Ellaria's actress?
Conclusion when you work with an adaptation you have to treat things seriously and not in a low march;you know I want a loyal adaptation but you can't blame me for it...We want this show to be entertaining but we want it to be got too.
The Show is not bad but it could be awesome indeed,you have to admit the potential was bigger than the actual quality.
These are facts that are recorded it's stupid argue,we are not enemies at the end we want the best storytelling possible and they did a wrong way that is difficult to deny.
Okay, so you liked the show but don't anymore. Fair enough, we all have our opinions, and I can even kind of see the dislike for season 5, since it's perhaps the worst season so far (still good IMO), around the same level with season 2. Personally I think season 6 was among the top 3 seasons so far, but once again, opinions. And all that good source material guarantees is initial interest from the fanbase of the source material, as well as the potential to make it something great in tv. However, we have been very lucky with HBO actually managing to tap on the potential of asoiaf. Had the show actually been shit, it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is.
This part of your message is a bit incoherent, but I guess what you're saying is that you have a problem with there being moments of comical relief in the show? You are aware there are those in the books too, right? And what comes to romances, sure, the show might have put more emphasis on them than the books (Robb&Talisa, Tyrion&Shae), but they are still well written, and I don't really understand what you mean with them coming "out of nowhere". So, what you're saying is they had production problems with BotB? Well, that's to be expected in a sequence as grand as that, and yet they pulled it off and made an amazing hour of tv. To me that just goes to show D&D's capability as showrunners. And I completely disagree with the statement that all the effort of season 6 went to BotB. Even as a hyperbole that's a ridiculous claim. Yes, it probably is the part that took most time to film, but that's to be expected from large action sequences, it doesn't mean there was no care and effort put into the story around said action sequence.
Yes, some plotlines/characters that have a lot of fans among book readers (Aegon, Victarion, etc.) were cut. But like I already said, cuts like these are made because unlike GRRM the show can't keep on expanding on the amount of storylines season after season. Had all the reader's favourites (and this would mean literally everything, because every plotline is the favorite for someone) been included, by season 5 we'd have waaaay too many storylines for the season to handle in a satisfying way. They decided to cut a storyline you personally liked in the books? Tough luck, but they didn't do it to screw with you, they did it to streamline the story for tv, which is absolutely necessary. And D&D liking Indira Varma is just one of the reasons they included Dorne, others being for example simply that Oberyn was so well-received that it would've seemed like a waste not to give the Martell's a storyline. All that said, in retrospect I agree they would've been better off cutting Dorne completely. However, that's easy to say now - had they not included Dorne I bet you would be here saying that not showing us Dorne was a mistake.
Are you seriously implying D&D (and the whole team from HBO) aren't treating this project seriously? Oh man, you should be put in their shoes for a couple of weeks, perhaps you'd find some respect for their work then. And in the end GoT is pretty damn loyal adaptation, especially when considered how massive and complex the source material is. And while I personally still find the show excellent, sure, there is always potential for improvement. However, it's simply not realistic to expect perfection at every turn, and retrospectively pointing out missed potential doesn't make a solid and entertaining show garbage. It just proves that nothing is perfect, which shouldn't be a surprise.
I'm not exactly sure what "facts" you are talking about here? Because largely we are talking about opinions here. If the "fact" you're referring to is that the show has made mistakes in its storytelling, sure, I agree. We might disagree on what these mistakes are, and we certainly disagree on the overall quality of the show, but yes, mistakes have been made along the way, it happens.
Oh this is getting interesting.Yeah I felt the downgrade of quality at first in season 5 and my discontent become bigger with the last season's you known.The thing is this guys don't deserve your support and I'm saying seriously put me in their shoes since the beginning of season one believe me(You will call it hypocrisy again...I'm seeing it) I would do it better.They Sayed they had none experience when they start with this product
The romance between Robb&Talia's didn't catch me as an expectant,they only wanted to reach a "honeypoint"...Did they? Was it for making the red wedding more dramatic,sad?(Didn't refer the Tyrion one) But Let me sigh.
Martin was not behind the selection of suppression of storylines per season,he helped at a start but his implication was not bigger.Indeed Stannis' performance in the Battle of the Blackwater was written by him directly.
There you give me an "absolute truth" that all the readers favourite s were portrayed...I'm pretty sure I was not the only who missed part of them...
The problem we have here is the contract they signed at the start of the series,they don't calculate accurately the time to finish at least properly the things they introduced.That's clearly bad planning...all their history with the show is bad planning(They offer you half the cake and you'll never get it complete).
Is this show solid and complete?Please watch the Blue-ray commentary and you'll see that the profesionality you defend will turn in ashes.They Sayed once:"Ellaria was planned only as Oberyn's complement" and this Varma appeared on the studio and randomly decided to change their plans(watch the interviews and come well informed).
On my opinion they don't treat with respect the series.
Your defending of the last season is a shame truly, season 6 is merely the BOB and Daernerys' holding of Mereen,We both know that the "Northern Conflict" treatment was a disaster,the important characters(Lord Wyman Marderly speech was desired by many not a child's) were left out because their poor time management.They abandoned storylines(Umber's betrayal at BOB was one of them,Doran's betrayal to the lannisters,Stannis' final...)
I posted a video at the beginning of this topic that you keep ignoring;but you must understand explaining all this in a comment is quite tiring.I already give you all the means you keep misunderstanding.
Beyond that the quality should always demand to be better and that's obvious!I'm a fan I don't care about all their problems...they are not the first to treat with complexe material and we shouldn't give them credit for that.
Guys like at least the post I bringer an interesting topic give me a bit of credit.
I'm not sure I'm capable of reaching an understanding point but I hope you respect my argument as much as I respect yours
If they can make a show that entertains me as much as GoT has over the years, then in my book they do deserve my support. I'm not saying they are perfect, but I do think many quite severly underestimate them as storytellers. Some people take for granted everything that is great about the show, and cling on to whatever they see as mistakes, disregarding the whole work due to small flaws. And I don't see a reason to call you a hypocrite here, but I will say that you are seriously underestimating how hard it would be to write and produce a show like GoT. Now, I don't know how capable of a storyteller you are, but I'd say most people would fail miserably in their attempt to adapt the books, even if they had the exact same resources D&D had. Besides, them having little experience before they begun is no argument against them really. It contradicts your own statements as well, since you've previously said you loved seasons 1-4, which is when they had even less experience than they have now. And I first watched season 3 before I had read the books, so I approached the Talisa storyline from an unbiased perspective, and it got me invested. And yes, it made the Red Wedding more impactful on my first watch, when I didn't know what was coming. Was it the most complex of storylines? Nope, but it worked, it got me emotionally invested and rooting for Robb and Talisa, hoping they'd somehow survive all this to raise their little Ned together.
Yes, I know Martin's role on the show was always very limited, what's your point there? And what the hell are you talking about? I didn't say anything about all readers favorites being portrayed in the show. What I said was that such a scenario isn't possible, because there are just too many characters and storylines that are considered "reader favorites". Some of them have to be cut for the show to properly tell a story in its limited hours. And there we see once again that you are completely out of touch when it comes to the process of making tv shows. No tv show is planned in great detail beyond first season or two at the beginning, because first of all it's never 100% clear if the show will even be renewed for new seasons so the priority is to concentrate on the season at hand. That said, I don't really think they have made many mistakes on that front, the flow and continuation from season to season has been mostly solid. At some point people were complaining about too many loose ends and "forgotten storylines", but by now it has come clear they are not leaving loose ends just for the heck of it - most likely they are just bringing those threads back in later a la Brotherhood and Greyjoy's in s6.
I seriously don't understand how that is an argument against the professionalism of the show. It is common in tv shows and films that roles are changed and expanded on when the writers notice the potential of the actor and the character. Heck, GRRM said he wants to give Osha a bigger role in his books now because he was impressed by Natalia Tena's performance in the show. Would you consider that unprofessional of Martin? And yes, I know, in Ellaria's case it didn't work out the best way, but that's not because there is no potential in that character or Indira Varma. They just went the wrong way with expanding her role. In other words, their mistake was not to expand Ellaria's role, their mistake was to expand it the way they did. Mistakes happen to best of us, but seeing potential and trying to tap to it is not a sign of unprofessionalism. And as an amateur storyteller myself, let me just tell you that if you are unwilling to change your plans and improvise when writing a story, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Want an example? Google GRRM's original plan for the books, and think about how much he has changed said plans after that.
"Season 6 is merely the BOB and Daenerys' holding of Meereen." What?? Oh, I guess I just imagined Cersei's storyline in King's Landing, Sansa's growth as a character, the set up for Night King's invasion in Bran's storyline, Arya's return to Westeros, Jaime taking Riverrun, etc etc. Sure, Jon's storyline revolved heavily around taking back Winterfell (after the first couple episodes), but why is that a bad thing? Stannis' whole season 2 is about attacking King's Landing, and it certainly doesn't make it a bad storyline. And I don't agree with you when it comes to the Northern conflict. Sure, I wouldn't have been against a bigger role for Wyman Manderly, but I think they did an amazing job with Lyanna, whom you disregard here just as a child even if she was a great character. Uh, idc, you can dislike the storyline and BotB as much as you want, but it's still great television.
Maybe one day I'll watch the video, but right now I just don't feel like wasting my time. Because I know it will be exactly that - waste of time. Like I said earlier, I know this guy from the internet and I know his attitude towards the show. Sure, demand away, but there is no need to be a dick about it. And I'm not giving them credit for simpy working with complex material, I'm giving them credit for actually making it work on the screen as well as they have. If they deserve criticism for every little mistake they make, then surely they also deserve credit and praise for the overwhelming amount of things they have executed flawlessly when making the show.
Sure, I respect your opinion and my goal has never really been to change it, I just wanted to bring the opposite opinion to the table. I guess you could say it's just tiring to see relentless negativity around something you love - I'm sure you know the feeling. And speaking of that, seeing how critical you are towards the show, I am quite surprised that you still like the game. I guess it's because there is no book storyline there to compare it to?
Hey I'm getting used to reading you dude.My initial intention was to create a general debate with the people of the forum but you know things of life I ended arguing with you.
There is no reason for me to hate the game,I'm actually a big fan of got ascent even if they follow show's storyline,"Because you like a product that doesn't judge it and be critical with it all with fair reasons".
But seriously this guys job was careless and if at least I can bring here small points justification it is worthy enough.
And you're wrong at the end;The original Forresters were part of Stannis' army and I resent that fact a bit...But come on I'm not that fusspot
The debate is still open if anyone wants to speak.