Model reuse (No blame thread)

I'm just wondering, what characters had reused models, and what had models just for themselves?

Guybrush of course has a model just ofr himself, right?And I guess LeChuck got one too.

But what about Morgan and Elaine, did they have the same model (body?) or were they completelly different ones?

Newspaper boy, D'oro and the one on Spoon Island where the same, and all the thin pirates too I guess.

But what with Winslow, was he the same fat model?I couldn't really get it, he kinda saw different from all of them, or am I mistaken?

Any other model reuse?

Comments

  • edited August 2009
    I think the only models (for humans) in the game were Guybrush, LeChuck, Elaine, Voodoo Lady, DeSinge, possibly Morgan, Fat Guy and Thin Guy.

    And the mer... persons all had the same model, too, if I saw that right.
  • edited August 2009
    I'm thought Morgan and Elaine were essentially the same model with a few minor tweaks. I'm probably wrong however.
  • edited August 2009
    Winslow was fat guy. I'm getting tired of the model reuse.
  • edited August 2009
    It did get a little annoying. The most annoying thing about it, though, was that the generic fat and thin guys had prominent bulges below their eyes, making them more identifiable (which is bad for a generic model).
  • edited August 2009
    they did a good job in episode two however. the pirates looked different enough not to notice the same models all the time. in the first part is was really worse, especially in that scene were nipperkin walks past winslow. also, at first i though that the glassblower guy was the same pirate that gets punched in the face right after guybrush landed.

    so far in spinner cay, the only character were the model reuse bothers me, is winslow. he should have his own model, since he will probably be present in every episode. having him look similar to all the generic pirates is somewhat strange.

    well, on the other hand...take a look at escape from monkey island...they had like two models for general pirates as well and they all looked exactly the same..and also quite ugly.
  • edited August 2009
    By doing something interesting with eyes and especially mouths, TT managed to instill some individuality to their stock models. The tall pirate on the shore of Spoon Island is actually done quite well.
  • edited August 2009
    wisp wrote: »
    they did a good job in episode two however. the pirates looked different enough not to notice the same models all the time. in the first part is was really worse, especially in that scene were nipperkin walks past winslow. also, at first i though that the glassblower guy was the same pirate that gets punched in the face right after guybrush landed.

    so far in spinner cay, the only character were the model reuse bothers me, is winslow. he should have his own model, since he will probably be present in every episode. having him look similar to all the generic pirates is somewhat strange.

    well, on the other hand...take a look at escape from monkey island...they had like two models for general pirates as well and they all looked exactly the same..and also quite ugly.

    I usually don't quote a whole post, but I agree with everything you said. I too thought the glassblower was the guy you punched in the face. I too got annoyed in the first chapter that there were only 2 ways the characters looked.
    And I too thought chapter two was a lot better. Thanks for that, guys.

    It seemed to me that Morgan had bigger thighs than Elaine, but I could be wrong. You don't really see them side by side, or in similar postures, to really compare.
  • edited August 2009
    I still recognized the pirate holding the seahorse artifact despite the recolour.. I'm pretty disappointed. Interesting characters has always been a strongsuit of the series. Make every character memorable or don't make them at all. They might have different voice actors but it's pretty damn obvious and it's really annoying since I can't stand the pear-head model they used for the newspaper guy, D'oro the doll guy, Winslow AND the chubby guy on the beach. I'm always reminded of Jimmy Neutron by that one.
  • edited August 2009
    Episode 2 was better, as 1 was a bit crap.

    The model reusing is the only downside of TOMI in my opinion.
  • edited August 2009
    It's weird, because it makes the engine seem VERY limited. I'm sure it wouldn't take THAT long to have different character models. In many games even the players can change the faces and make them look vastly different, so I don't see how Telltale after 3 years wasn't able to improve on this very apparent problem. I still liked chapter 2, but the model reuse is just a big downside... unfortunate really.
  • edited August 2009
    It's the minor characters people remember and love in the MI series. Murray, Kenny, Haggis McMutton, Largo, LeChimp, Wally, Lemonhead. This is something that needs fixing.
  • edited August 2009
    who's kenny?
    Pretender wrote: »
    It's weird, because it makes the engine seem VERY limited.

    i don't think it's a limitation from the engine. hasn't it been said, that the reuse of the pirate models is to save resources mostly, so the wii version won't get problems?
    on the other hand creating entirely new characters does need some time and so far most telltale games had only a handful of characters. it's also a time thing, i guess..
  • edited August 2009
    The Books all had the same model.
  • TimTim
    edited August 2009
    wisp wrote: »
    who's kenny?.

    Lemonade guy from Curse of Monkey Island:

    curse-of-monkey-island-gary-coleman-lemonade.jpg
  • edited August 2009
    He also sells cannons and was voiced by Garry Coleman.
  • edited August 2009
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134599/fullcredits#cast

    Read through the cast. You can recognise almost every character in it. The only characters who's faces I can't remember are Snowcone Guy, Wharf Rat and La Foot (and of course the generic swordfighting pirates. I'm already forgetting TOMI characters.
  • edited August 2009
    ohh, that little brat...yeah, he was annoying enough so i should have remembered him. i just recently replayed curse...

    ..but you see, he had entirely different graphics than all the other characters and i still forgot his name.
  • edited August 2009
    You forgot his name, sure, but you can replace him now. You probably have an image of what he looks like.
    For a lot of the ToMI characters you'll have to ask "is he one of the tall guys or one of the short guys?".
    It hasn't been very long but I'm already mixing up some of the characters, especially the tall ones.
    Winslow is an important character so far, with a clear personality and it looks like he's sticking around. Yet he's mostly made different by having a different skin tone.

    I have a lot less of a problem with the whole thing with episode 2 though, as I said earlier. In Episode 1, I mixed some characters together. In episode 2, I didn't.
    Hopefully episode 3 will be more like 2 than 1. But I can definitely understand why it would be less time-consuming to have the NPC look similar to each other.

    I guess that's one good thing about 2D: the characters all look different and unique.

    (To be fair, I think the characters also look BETTER in 2D than they do in 3D. I still feel that CoMI looks better aesthetically that ToMI does. Plus it doesn't have that confusing way of moving Guybrush by holding down the mouse button ad picking a direction. I still don't get why it's not point & click like the Sam and Max games are.)
  • edited August 2009
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134599/fullcredits#cast

    Read through the cast. You can recognise almost every character in it. The only characters who's faces I can't remember are Snowcone Guy, Wharf Rat and La Foot (and of course the generic swordfighting pirates. I'm already forgetting TOMI characters.

    Wharf Rat And Snowcone guys were employees at the Big Whoop! The Rat is the guy in the giant rat costume who throws a pie at you, and isn't too keen about this job. And the Snowcone guy er..sells snowcones, which help you defeat LeChuck's spell.
  • edited August 2009
    Sanin92 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering, what characters had reused models, and what had models just for themselves?

    Guybrush of course has a model just ofr himself, right?

    Guess again. ;)

    Look a little closer at the guys fighting with LeChuck. The reuse of that model was well done I thought & I'm not surprised a lot of people didn't notice.
  • edited August 2009
    Guess again. ;)

    Look a little closer at the guys fighting with LeChuck. The reuse of that model was well done I thought & I'm not surprised a lot of people didn't notice.

    Yeah, I noticed that too. But he looks different enough that it doesn't really matter. Like others have said, my only real disappointment is with Winslow. He's definitely one of my new favorite characters, but he's just one of a dozen short and fat guys.
  • edited August 2009
    Oh yeah, I remember Wharf Rat now. I knew where Snow Cone guy was, I just couldn't remember what he actually looked like. Apart from Davey Nipperkin and Winslow, I couldn't name a single fat/skinny guy in Ep1 anymore. I remember playswithdolls, utubeguy, guywhoiskickedoutofbar, but I don't remember much their names or backgrounds because of how generic they were. However I could tell you about the Cabana boy in COMI, the Fettuccine brothers in SOMI, Tiny LaFeet in EFMI - and it's been years since I've played those. It's partly the writing and partly the generic models - the human brain is excellent at spotting repetition and patterns, so no matter how dressed up they are they still look like the same guy.
  • edited August 2009
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134599/fullcredits#cast

    Read through the cast. You can recognise almost every character in it. The only characters who's faces I can't remember are Snowcone Guy, Wharf Rat and La Foot (and of course the generic swordfighting pirates. I'm already forgetting TOMI characters.

    I totally second that. Most of the ToMI Island side characters don't stay in my memory as seperate, interesting characters, but just as "another fat guy" and "another tall guy". Or another merfolks guy/girl/whatever.
    (That excludes the characters from previous games as well as Morgan LeFlay and the Marquis de Singe, the best designed additions so far.)
    While ToMI 1 had several weak points, ToMI 2 has only this essential weak point bothering me. But it's getting more and more annoying. I know the budget is limited, but in other TellTale series we never had 6 people looking exactly like Bosco, Major Crum and so on. And even if the TellTale team reuses models, it should just at least add about 3 or 4 new models every episode to choose from. There should be enough time for that while we wait...

    Don't get me wrong, I love the ToMI series. I just wished this thing wouldn't spoil a lot of the side characters. With a more individual design, they could even be much more interesting.
  • edited August 2009
    there was a 3rd pirate body shape in the gang of pirates trying to beat up lechuck. he had a bowl cut hairstyle and a gangly body, but different than tall skinny guy. he looked like one of the stupid-pirates in pirates of the caribbean

    and no morgan and elaine are very different models
  • edited August 2009
    Duate wrote: »
    there was a 3rd pirate body shape in the gang of pirates trying to beat up lechuck. he had a bowl cut hairstyle and a gangly body, but different than tall skinny guy. he looked like one of the stupid-pirates in pirates of the caribbean

    and no morgan and elaine are very different models

    Wasn't that the one using Guybrush's model? And aside from that, that's not the kind of character I consider to be worth remembering... :rolleyes:
    That gang was neither interesting nor funny nor really important. It fullfilled its part of the story quite well, but that's it. Therefore I don't really blame TTG if they don't want to introduce new models for such insignificant characters. But I want new models for the important and/or funny roles.
  • edited August 2009
    I think every character with more than about 10 lines should have it's own model. That's how it was done in EFMI, and CMI, and their characters are what made us love them (even if EFMI sucked a bit, especially towards the end).
  • edited August 2009
    Actually they are different models, some just use the same animations. The problem isn't space, it's time. Making a new set of animations for every characters takes alot of time.

    I'm getting used to the similiar models. It doesn't really bother me THAT much and I'm willing to forgive TTG for it. Why?
    Well, the main characters are memorable enough. Not just LeChuck, Elaine, Guybrush and De Singe. Take McGillicutty and Van Winslow for example. They use the "common" animations but I don't doubt they'd be remembered by fans.
    Even some of the secondary characters are memorable. Of the top of my head, I can say Joaquin D'Oro, McGee and Davey Nipperkin, Anemonae and Tetris. I don't recall the glassblower or the 2 pirates from Episode 2 (Grump and Digit?), but that's normal.

    There are lots of characters from previous games I don't recall. If someone remembers them all, thats not because the character were that memorable, it's because we played those games more than once or spent alot more time on each island, had more dialog options or the names were just puns. It's hard to forget a character named Plasido Domingo, Marco Polo, Cabana Boy, Lemonhead (He has an actual lemon for a head! How do you forget his name.)
  • edited August 2009
    Spadge wrote: »
    Actually they are different models, some just use the same animations. The problem isn't space, it's time. Making a new set of animations for every characters takes alot of time.

    I'm getting used to the similiar models. It doesn't really bother me THAT much and I'm willing to forgive TTG for it. Why?
    Well, the main characters are memorable enough. Not just LeChuck, Elaine, Guybrush and De Singe. Take McGillicutty and Van Winslow for example. They use the "common" animations but I don't doubt they'd be remembered by fans.
    Even some of the secondary characters are memorable. Of the top of my head, I can say Joaquin D'Oro, McGee and Davey Nipperkin, Anemonae and Tetris. I don't recall the glassblower or the 2 pirates from Episode 2 (Grump and Digit?), but that's normal.

    There are lots of characters from previous games I don't recall. If someone remembers them all, thats not because the character were that memorable, it's because we played those games more than once or spent alot more time on each island, had more dialog options or the names were just puns. It's hard to forget a character named Plasido Domingo, Marco Polo, Cabana Boy, Lemonhead (He has an actual lemon for a head! How do you forget his name.)

    Compare Nipperkin, Winslow and that lame tough cook. They all appear to have different body language, to me. Body language is portrayed by animation. The models look different but same shape and size due to different textures for each character. The mouth and eyes receive a lot more attention at TT than any LA game I've ever played (even the intro to EMI!). I reckon we should do our best to ignore the fact most look related and enjoy the humour and story.
  • edited August 2009
    @Spadge: Actually I don't remember all of them anymore. Just a little time after playing the games. I played the old games a lot of years ago and remember more details about the characters.

    btw "humour":
    That whole reusing even resulted in a kind of unintentional joke. At least for me. Anemone asking Guybrush about Winslow "Does he have a cousin?" made me lol, but not for the reason it was supposed to. :D
    I almost wanted Guybrush to answer: "One cousin? Dozens!" XD
  • edited August 2009
    In episode 5 it will be revealed that all tall pirates are related to each other. And all fat ones too for that matter ;)

    Can someone grab a still of both Elaine and Morgan (made of hot polygons!) and paste them in this thread?
  • edited August 2009
    Is that Andrew Chaikin playing the skinny pirate on the beach? And honestly, I think the similar models thing is because of the Wii. Sam and Max and Bone were PC only and had as many characters as ToMI, most of who were distinct one from the other, but SBCG4AP was a Wiiware release and only had about nine fully 3-D characters. Plus that's what one Telltaler said, I think. I'd have to check. Anyway, is that Mr. Chaikin? If so, I'm glad to see he got better.
  • edited August 2009
    Maybe it really is a Wii thing, but I'm not sure about that. I mean com'on, there are Wii games with dozens of characters who don't look even smiliar to each other...
    EDIT: Oh no, wait. By now, Sam & Max is available on Wii, too. So the Wii can't be the reason.

    And SBCG4AP is something completely different. It had at least 12 distinct common characters (Strong Bad, Bubs, Strong Mad, Homestar Runner, Marzipan, Coach Z, The Cheat, Strong Sad, Pom-Pom, King of Town, Poopsmith and Homsar) plus a lot of additions in its games, cartoons and so on. But you can't compare it to ToMI. Because the graphics and especially the animations are much simpler. Look at Homestar Runner not even having arms, for example. ;)
  • edited August 2009
    EDIT: Oh no, wait. By now, Sam & Max is available on Wii, too. So the Wii can't be the reason.

    Actually, it can.

    Sam and Max came out for wii on DVD.
    Monkey Island as WIIWARE download.
  • edited August 2009
    Lena_P wrote: »
    Is that Andrew Chaikin playing the skinny pirate on the beach?
    Cast episode 1

    Bartender - Roger Jackson *
    Crimpdigit - Tim Talbot **
    DeSinge - Jared Emerson-Johnson ***
    D'Oro - David Boyll ****
    Elaine - Alexandra Boyd
    Guybrush Threepwood - Dominic Armato
    LeChuck - Adam Harrington
    Marshall - Brian Sommer *****
    McGee - Roger Jackson
    Club 41 Member 1 - Brian Sommer
    Club 41 Member 2 - Alison Ewing
    Threatening Voice - Nicki Rapp
    Nipperkin - Tim Talbot
    Rockrib - Brian Sommer
    The Voodoo Lady - Alison Ewing
    Reginald Van Winslow - Roger Jackson

    Cast episode 2

    Anemone - Sirenetta Leoni
    DeSinge - Jared Emerson-Johnson
    Elaine - Alexandra Boyd
    Guybrush Threepwood - Dominic Armato
    Pirate Bill - Brian Sommer
    Pirate Ted - Kid Beyond
    Pirate Kevin - Jared Emerson-Johnson
    Killick Hardtack - Brian Sommer
    LeChuck - Kevin Blackton
    Murkel Trenchfoot - Kid Beyond
    McGillicutty - Kid Beyond
    MerLeader - Peggy VanPatten
    Morgan LeFlay - Nicki Rapp
    Parrot - Dominic Armato
    Tetra - Michael Landers
    Voodoo Lady - Alison Ewing
    Winslow - Roger Jackson

    * Abe Lincoln/Storm Moai
    ** Harry Moleman/Ted E. Bear
    *** the C.O.P.S.
    **** Hugh Bliss/Mr. Featherly/Earth Moai/Greeter/The Internet Wizard
    ***** Brady Culture/Monster/Purple Rat Creature/Dirk
  • edited August 2009
    tbm1986 wrote: »
    They all appear to have different body language, to me.
    Speaking of body language, is it really necessary to have all the different characters do that same finger snapping animation all the time? The other, more subtle motions are okay to use for different people because they're not as noticeable, but you don't normally see someone snap their fingers like that randomly during a conversation, and when everyone does it it really stands out. Doesn't really help the illusion of the characters being different people. Sam & Max Season 2 did that too, although I didn't notice it used nearly as much as in ToMI.
  • edited August 2009
    Lena_P wrote: »
    Is that Andrew Chaikin playing the skinny pirate on the beach?
    Yes, Andrew Chaikin is Kid Beyond, and it's awesome that he's back. (He's also an amazing beatboxer and singer, and he did some of the vocals for early Guitar Hero and Rock Band cover songs... including the David Bowie covers. He is, in every way, THE MAN)

    I hope he sticks around for the rest of TMI, especially if we get a musical number somewhere. :D
    barchetta wrote: »
    Cast episode 2

    Pirate Ted - Kid Beyond
    Murkel Trenchfoot - Kid Beyond
    McGillicutty - Kid Beyond
  • edited August 2009
    LuigiHann wrote: »
    Yes, Andrew Chaikin is Kid Beyond, and it's awesome that he's back. (He's also an amazing beatboxer and singer, and he did some of the vocals for early Guitar Hero and Rock Band cover songs... including the David Bowie covers. He is, in every way, THE MAN)

    I hope he sticks around for the rest of TMI, especially if we get a musical number somewhere. :D

    A beat boxing pirate? That's something different to an insult swordfighting pirate :)

    When I made the above list of names, I should've looked up who's behind that name Kid Beyond. I thought to my self: who has such a wierd name :rolleyes: DUH!
  • edited August 2009
    As for the Mer-Persons, I at least hoped for a different face paint shapes (these black wide 'tears' that drops from their eyes).
    But the only seem to change color.

    As for Winslow model, I think it's been reused for like 5 times already.
  • edited August 2009
    Guinea wrote: »
    I think the only models (for humans) in the game were Guybrush, LeChuck, Elaine, Voodoo Lady, DeSinge, possibly Morgan, Fat Guy and Thin Guy.

    And the mer... persons all had the same model, too, if I saw that right.

    Every character has a unique model. The models are not what's being recycled, it's the animation meshes.

    Unique meshes are: Guybrush, Elaine, Ghost LeChuck, Human LeChuck, DeSinge, Voodoo Lady, Morgan, MerFolk, McGee (maybe), Fat pirate, skinny pirate, and medium pirate (guy with the moustache who fights LeChuck, though I think he might use guybrush's facial animations).
  • edited August 2009
    Regardless of what the technical reason is (and you're probably right), we're getting sick of seeing the same characters over and over.
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