No love (as in romance) for "Classic Batman" (Long Post) (Spoiler Warning)
OK, so where to start?
First of all, I really enjoyed the story and the choices. The fact that it made me want to open this discussion is proof of that. Also when I say "Classic Batman", I don't say that my choices were what the "real" Batman we all know would do. This is just my interpretation.
This discussion is about the choice between Gotham and Selina. So let's get started.
- My Batman is not brutal (obviously).
- My mission to ensure Gotham's safety comes first, before anything else.
- I've spent the night at Selina's apartment.
- I've told Alfred that I really liked Selina.
During the final dialogue with Selina in Season 1, when she says "It'd only be a matter of time before I crossed one of your lines.", I said I'd stop her too if she did something like Harvey did. Like I've said, mission comes first. Then she said we were back where we started, enemies. I told her I didn't mean it that way and I didn't want to be enemies. We were good after that.
Let's Talk About Season 2
In Riddler's Lair, I told her I was undercover and if she actually did switch to a life of crime, she'd be going down same as the others. Again, THE MISSIAHN BEFORE ANYTHING. And look at that, the next moment she refuses my help, betrays me and runs off with the decrypter without even talking about it. I don't care if she wants to stop them. She better be ready for retribution.
At the GCPD's rooftop, I obviously didn't warn her about GCPD coming after her because I thought she'd be able to get away and the cops would slow her down. Giving me enough time to get to the laptop before her. The perfect situation. And if she gets caught? That's on her. This is my retribution.
Sooo... Catwoman shows up all beat up and I feel really bad about it. I tell her the truth and that she betrayed me first, she first gets angry then thinks it's fair and we hug it out. I invite her to the batcave, we kiss & stuff and it's all good.
The Subway - Who is the mole?
For me this was the hardest choice in the story, because it was a choice between two things I cared about the most. (Other than Alfred, Gordon etc.) The city I've sworn to protect and the woman I really like.
I see two potential scenarios here: (What happens next in Episode 4 is not taken into account here.)
SCENARIO 1 - "Classic Batman"
Other than SANCTUS, there are customers at all time in the Bodhi Spa. I'm only the one that can minimize the death count during the attack. More importantly, there is a possibility of a city-wide pandemic and I definitely can't allow the virus to go into the wrong hands. The choice is clear. I have to sacrifice Selina for the greater good, to save lives and hope that she will be able to escape. I would be betraying her twice now and right after our "relationship" started. I doubt she will be forgiving after that. Therefore I end up alone.
SCENARIO 2 - "Naive Batman"
Bruce is really touched when Selina says that she feels like she can be better around Bruce and found redemption next to him. So when it comes to deciding the mole, Bruce believes that Selina can also prevent deaths in the Spa and sacrifices himself for her. Tiffany is not an issue here because the Pact is going directly to the spa, there is time to warn her.
I'm really interested to know what you think. Did you warn her or not? Which scenario more plausible to you? Do you have your own scenarios? What choices did you make? What do you think "Classic Batman" would do? Please share your thoughts.
This has already been talked through a few times, but it is an interesting topic so let's go again.
I see what you mean but, I believe the so-called "classic" Batman would never sacrifice or send somebody to death for his mission... lover or not. He would probably think he would be able to save everyone either way, or at least die to try to find that way.
For me personally its a no-brainer, I sacrificed myself and I did warn her also about the GCPD. Perhaps I am naive but I trust her... and I actually want to believe that they both have true feelings for each other now... hopefully, they can make it work out.
"I see what you mean but, I believe the so-called "classic" Batman would never sacrifice or send somebody to death for his mission... lover or not."
Now that I think of it, you may be right.
But since you completely trust Selina, you are assuming the people at the spa may be okay AND she may be able to prevent the virus threat, even if you die. That way it makes sense.
When you look at things from my point of view however, when I say I'm the mole, I'm sacrifing the people at the spa. So either way, I'm sacrifing someone. Also I'm not sure if she'd try to go against all of the pact to stop the threat. Although she did seem determined at Riddler's lair.
I guess, for me at least, more or less it comes down to saving SANCTUS + customers at the spa VS saving Selina. Interesting.
haha well... both yes and no. I did not expect Selina in any way to stop the attack but I would be surprised if she did participate in the killings (They would probably just have killed her if she tried to interfere, she does not have the same respect and trust that Bruce has earned)
About the people, that's working for Sanctus, when you know the outcome than sure you can argue that it might be better to sacrifice Selina since she manages to break the ice chamber and survive and then you get a chance to almost save everyone at the Sanctus facility... but that is when you know the results beforehand then you could argue that its the better option.
But, when you get the choice for the first time and you don't know the exact results it's pretty much:
(Worth to mention, you could put Tiffany in danger also here)
It's not like the choice is to kill one person or kill seven persons (I can't remember the exact body count)
To be fair there is not a "correct" answer and there will never be one... we got statistics that say that most people took the blame (I believe it was about 75-80%... maybe even more?) but that does not mean it was the correct thing to do.
I'm more middle ground. I'll be good as I can, but I'll also be brutal if I'm needed to. I had to think about the city first, but I also want to redeem villains in the process
You have to think about what comes first
Told her people never change. (After telling her she was nothing but a thief last season)
Didn't warn her about Gordon.
Took the decoder by force when she came to Wayne Manor
Gave her up to the Pact as the mole.
Didn't even try to sugar coat why I sold her out as the mole when we were fighting on the roof. (Told her lives were at stake. Aka more important lives than hers.)
I basically cared more about staying undercover and keeping John as a friend than I did her.
Actually, I'm saying that blaming Selina may be the better choice without considering what happens in the next episode. Like I've said, I can save more lives and there is a possibility of a city-wide pandemic.
Throughout the seasons, when it comes to choices involving Catwoman, the higher percentage option is almost always the one in favor of her. So I'm gonna make a biased statement and say that a good portion of those people just wanted to keep their relationship with catwoman, without thinking about what's good for the city, the people, etc. You may disagree with me and I would understand that.
While I agree that there may be no correct choice for the mole in general, I think there is one for the "Classic Batman" approach. Unfortunately, I haven't come across any arguments to help me make up my mind about this. You've said that this topic (assuming the mole choice) has already been talked through a few times. I'd appreciate it if you could direct me to one of those discussions.
In the end, I ended up starting a second playthrough with a more impulsive Bruce and full brutal Batman (as much as the game allows) who sometimes doesn't care about death if it doesn't come from his hands. This way I justified (in my head) saving Selina instead of Harvey (Impulsive Bruce) and taking the blame for Selina. SANCTUS was evil anyway they can die for all I care. (Batfleck)
I didn't even push the prompted buttons when Joker was dying in the villain path. He can do that himself, I want no part of it. Gave up Batman afterwards.
First of all, I do not disagree with you with your first statement, makes total sense.
I did look through some old topics and I know that this particular choice has been discussed in some of them but I cannot remember where it is, sorry
I would still think that the "classic" Batman would not want to participate in killing another person in any way... does not matter if its a villain or civilian... Batman does not kill... or sentence people to their death.
Now regarding which is the better choice... even without trying to consider what happened next...
I can't betray her... not like that... but I have to be honest and try to see it from a clear point of view... if it was anybody else I would more likely consider putting the blame on them... but in the end, the safer and more ethical choice is still to take the blame... at least in my eyes.