I miss the ,,Insult battles,,

Geypi

Hey i was just wondering why haven't we seen any insult swordfighting or insult arm wrestling yet. I mean there have been several opportunities. So.... WHY???!! Maybe you can change it a little this year it could be like:
[edited for content]

come on that would be cool .

Paintbrush

Noooo, not another insult-something.. It was fun in previous games, but we need something new- like the Guybrush and Morgan swordfight. Now, that was fresh and fun!

WinterSnowblind

I was wondering if something like that would eventually appear, but I think the Morgan fight was more than good enough, it was a good call back without completely relying on things that made the past games funny.

StarEye

As long as they keep it to Insult Swordfighting, and mix it up between rhymes and non-rhymes, like in EMI. And it needs to have decent replies.

Also, instead of the insanely boring treasure huntery, Insult Swordfighting would be the better mini-game.

Heck, they could base a whole game around Insult Swordfighting, and have you search for bits and pieces of insults from different pirates in the caribbean, and then use them in a final battle with LeChuck.I grow tired of the "look for the legendary...". How about searching for something not quite so ridiculous for a change. Big Whoop was just a legendary treasure, but nobody knew what it was. CMI had you searching for a proper uncursed ring blessed with true love - not quite ridiculous. SMI had you looking for MI, an island nobody knew how to get to. Quite down to earth. Then along came EMI - the Ultimate Insult? And Tales gives us The Giant Sponge? I love Tales as much as anyone here, however, I'm quite disappointed with that part. It's a magic sponge - er, okay.

Sorry for the rant, and somewhat off topic too. I just want a Monkey Island with a "believable" plot element, like finding a legendary island, a legendary lost treasure, an un-cursed diamond ring - all these are relatively believable, and very much pirate-like. And while Insult battles are somewhat of a ridiculous idea, it's firmly rooted in the MI universe. How about just having four legendary pirates still roaming around, alive or undead, which you have to encounter and beat to learn their unique set of insults. That's the whole game right there if you ask me. LeChuck wants to settle the score once and for all, he finds you and challenges you (gives you three days/weeks (takes time to sale to different islands) to prepare - which would be a nod to one of my favourite children's movies, Hook). After all, you haven't really been in a proper fight with LeChuck yet. It'd be kind of like a mix between SMI and MI2 in terms of plot.

Hayden

The Morgan fight was (dare I say it) better... Insult sword fighting was good while it lasted but it wouldn't've taken long before it would begin to grow old...

der_ketzer

I really don't miss them. The armwrestling in EMI was okay. But the Sword battles in SoMI and CoMI always felt like something that was only thrown in tzo extend the playtime.

Bagge

I would not like to see another insult swordfighting-puzzle in TMI. This is why.
Also, I'd much rather see TTG coming up with new and fresh ideas for TMI than just bringing back all the elements from the previous Monkey Islands. If TTG were to fulfill every single request for TMI that has been made on this forum, you would have to revisit every single island that has ever been a location in another Monkey Island game, meet every single secondary character and reveal Ron Gilberts true secret of Monkey Island.

New creative ideas > reused old ideas

BeeKay84

I don't miss them, as it takes so long to learn all the insults and comebacks, that already bothered me in SMI and CMI. Insult swordfighting is a classic and shouldn't be done over and over again. Though the rhyming in CMI was a nice touch. But that's all you can do. It's better to hint at the insult swordfighting every once in a while (like when Guybrush says "You fight like a cow!" or the one dialog in the fight with Morgan), 'cause it's a fun reference to the first games. But please, no more new insults in any kind of fight, swordfight or anything.

StansCoffins

Usually I'd say no, but the swordfight at the beginning of Spinner Cay got me wondering... Imagine an insult swordfight where a correct insult, rather than simply moving you a little to the right of the screen, actually changes your position completely (in the same way that talking to Morgan does in that fight).

But it would have to be just a one-off (i.e. choosing from a list of responses rather than collecting and learning insults).

MusicallyInspired

I DO NOT miss the insult swordfights. They are only fun and funny once. I didn't even like it when I ran into the same thing in CMI. Once is enough. Any more and it just seems like you're wasting time trying to get each insult. It's only fun once. The novelty has long worn off. I can't stand it now. Not even in the original. There's no way to bypass it or get through it easily either.

Jake

Geypi can you can you clean up the language in your example please?

Thanks.

der_ketzer

yep. The examples are horrible. And really not Monkey Island like.

Grogatini

I wouldn't mind seeing some more insult swordfighting, or some other new type of dialogue based puzzle within the games :P Its been great in the past and I don't see why it couldn't be freshened up? But equally, its not hugely important if it isn't included in the games, Tales of Monkey island is top notch without it and I liked the fight with Morgan (and her playful jibes at the old-fashionedness of insult swordfighting)

And yeah Geypi..... i'm not a prude or anything but i really DON'T think that would be cool in a future MI game. Just crude.

ShaggE

der_ketzer wrote: »

yep. The examples are horrible. And really not Monkey Island like.

Indeed. The humor was in the wit, whereas the provided examples are more like two 10 year olds who just figured out that they can swear on the internet.

guitarsareboring

Before the game came out I really wanted an insult somethingorother but now I don't really care. The insults have been referenced often enough for me to be satisfied and I think it'd be a mistake for them to include as an actual task.

guitarsareboring

StarEye wrote: »

Also, instead of the insanely boring treasure huntery, Insult Swordfighting would be the better mini-game.

Yeah, not crazy about the treasure hunting. Obviously the act of treasure hunting is good but not the way it's done.

doodo!

These effusions are in far greater obstinacy than anything I ever typed here. That's really going too far. Very juvenile indeed!

You're a predaceous troll! (lol spell check doesn't even know that word)

Welcome to the forums, there are a lot of adult and mature posters here for future reference you should know that.

Vitoner

in SOMI it was fun 'cause it was new. in MI3 it was less fun and the bit in MI4 was pathetic. so: no, we had enough.

Fury

haydenwce27 wrote: »

The Morgan fight was (dare I say it) better... Insult sword fighting was good while it lasted but it wouldn't've taken long before it would begin to grow old...

I agree, but I miss the insults. It should be added as a minigame, it would be way better than stupid recycled not hard at all treasure hunting.

Maybe for ep4?

Guinea

I don't miss insult swordfighting.

If I want it, I go and play SMI or CMI, and for future sword fights I prefer new ways to deal with sword fighting, like the one in Ep2.
Like it has been said, there is no such thing as "insult swordfighting". It is merely a mechanic to allow for sword fights in SMI and in CMI and for that it was perfect and hilarious, and what EMI made out of it is a disappointment. "insult armwrestling, insult chess, insult poker..."

It was awesome in SMI and CMI as a part of the story and a necessary thing to advance the game and give some change, but the focus was always sword fighting, not insulting the other guy, so for me the Morgan swordfight in Ep2 fills the "gap" extremely well and I wouldn't have wanted it to be "insult swordfighting" instead.

Fury

But a minigame....

StansCoffins

The OP's post sounds like Guybrush in an Insult Shanking match with 50 Cent.

JedExodus

Nah, it's too grindy. You know the mechanic so you're not really being tested on wit or guile untill maybe the last battle where you have to improvise against new insults.

It's iconic and I look fondly on it, but we don't need it

Thespis

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142218&postcount=24

Rather Dashing

Thing is, they did discover a way to make it fresh. The fight with Morgan IS the same thing, but freshened up SO well that people don't seem to realize that it has the same exact purpose.

nitsujsedohr

Yeah, I have to agree that insult sword fighting was great. I could live with it both ways, back in or without. Alot of people are downing the Monkey Combat, actually had a chuckle from it. I know it was a cheap joke, but I got a few seconds of laughter at Guybrush in those poses. It was really just filler in EMI, I think maybe I've changed my mind though. Insult sword fighting shouldn't come back, let the past be the past.

Ash McQ

I would like to see a proper insult fighting. You know, how it was supposed to be in the Orginal Monkey Island, therefore with real variance, not with the same insults again and again. Like when you fight carla, but like that one with every pirate. If not, then better not. I mean its cult and all, but that bit of the first game is gameplay-wise pretty dumb tbh.

Astro Gnocci

As many said already, i do think insult swordfighting is a great idea in itself, but the gathering of those insults was extremely tedious. It was great fun the first time around but a real pain in the butt when you replay the games (and don't forget that one of the main appeals of the episodic format is just that : replay value).

I actually liked how they handled it in EMI. The arm wrestling thing wasn't funny to me, but having you already knowing the insults and come backs and just having to figure out which fitted which was pretty clever and avoided the tediousness of the earlier ones.

Oh, and

Thing is, they did discover a way to make it fresh. The fight with Morgan IS the same thing, but freshened up SO well that people don't seem to realize that it has the same exact purpose.

I second that.

Avistew

I miss it, but I don't want it to reappear again. I think it was good in the first and third game, and bad in the game-that-never-was. I think it's good to miss it, it means we didn't grow bored of it, so it shouldn't appear again (although references to it are always good).
I'd prefer something new and original.

taumel

Hmm, i liked the insult sword fighting so far a lot. In the end it's a hunt after some information in order to get passed something. It's a benefit if it's well done (nicely integrated and with good phrases) but obviously also can be annoying if it isn't.

Rather Dashing

Avistew wrote: »

I miss it, but I don't want it to reappear again. I think it was good in the first and third game, and bad in the game-that-never-was. I think it's good to miss it, it means we didn't grow bored of it, so it shouldn't appear again (although references to it are always good).
I'd prefer something new and original.

How in the WORLD was it good in the third game? I'm completely baffled by this. You already KNOW the mechanic, and the added "rhyme" gimmick is only a puzzle for two seconds if you don't realize that several responses rhyme, but only one fits.

So, more or less, it's copied from Secret. It's not something new and good in Curse, it's an annoying attempt to capture the magic of the first game by REPEATING THINGS VERBATIM.

You're stuck going around, collecting insults, just like in the first game but without the puzzle aspect of learning the mechanic as you went. It was bland, unoriginal, tedious, and the second worst aspect of Curse. In fact, it's more tedious than it was in Secret, because every other fight you have to go all the way back to the store to grab better canons. It was like someone looked at the adventure genre and said "You know what this needs? The worst aspects of the RPG genre!", and went ahead to make the Curse Insult Swordfighting section.

Why was Escape's implementation worse?! As already noted in this thread, it removed the tedium of Curse's cut-and-paste implementation. Of all the things to fault Escape for(while obviously turning a blind eye to Curse's faults, apparently), why choose one area where it did something FAR better than Curse?

Danny

No, it was fun in the old games, but no need to use it in every MI game.

StansCoffins

Rather Dashing wrote: »

How in the WORLD was it good in the third game? I'm completely baffled by this. You already KNOW the mechanic, and the added "rhyme" gimmick is only a puzzle for two seconds if you don't realize that several responses rhyme, but only one fits.

So, more or less, it's copied from Secret. It's not something new and good in Curse, it's an annoying attempt to capture the magic of the first game by REPEATING THINGS VERBATIM.

You're stuck going around, collecting insults, just like in the first game but without the puzzle aspect of learning the mechanic as you went. It was bland, unoriginal, tedious, and the second worst aspect of Curse. In fact, it's more tedious than it was in Secret, because every other fight you have to go all the way back to the store to grab better canons. It was like someone looked at the adventure genre and said "You know what this needs? The worst aspects of the RPG genre!", and went ahead to make the Curse Insult Swordfighting section.

Why was Escape's implementation worse?! As already noted in this thread, it removed the tedium of Curse's cut-and-paste implementation. Of all the things to fault Escape for(while obviously turning a blind eye to Curse's faults, apparently), why choose one area where it did something FAR better than Curse?

I agree to an extent: it was lazy to reuse the concept, and the insults were nowhere near as sharp (most fell flat for me). But I actually think they got away with it due to the brilliant atmosphere of that sequence, the grudge the player has against Rottingham, the singing pirates and the feel of gradually getting more and more formidable (missing in Secret). In the end, despite being a grind and featuring weaker insults, it's one of my favourite chapters in the entire series.

As for Escape, well, I think it's partly to do with it being Flanderised: up to then it had simply been a swordfighting mechanic lampooning how in fiction the fights seem to be determined by who is being taken the piss out of the most. But in Escape, it's become a bloody franchise that people over the Caribbean are playing ("Insult Darts", I mean WTF?), has lost all of its awesomeness, and is taken to literal extremes (Ozzie taking over the Caribbean because no-one understands his Australian slang is one of the most moronic ideas ever, and hurts the otherwise solid "Rupert Murdoch takes over the Caribbean and replaces pirates with tourists" plot.

Astro Gnocci

You're stuck going around, collecting insults, just like in the first game but without the puzzle aspect of learning the mechanic as you went. It was bland, unoriginal, tedious, and the second worst aspect of Curse. In fact, it's more tedious than it was in Secret, because every other fight you have to go all the way back to the store to grab better canons. It was like someone looked at the adventure genre and said "You know what this needs? The worst aspects of the RPG genre!", and went ahead to make the Curse Insult Swordfighting section.

You're right, but the fact that the insults were new and that it had been a long time since i hadn't done it somehow made up for it, at least for me.
It did hurt replay value, though, just like in SMI, which is a shame because i liked the overall atmosphere of the sea battles.

Why was Escape's implementation worse?! As already noted in this thread, it removed the tedium of Curse's cut-and-paste implementation. Of all the things to fault Escape for(while obviously turning a blind eye to Curse's faults, apparently), why choose one area where it did something FAR better than Curse?

As i said, i do think they done the right thing as far as the mechanics is concerned (already having the insults in your "inventory"), but what i think what threw a lot of people off (me included) was the way it was introduced. The fact that just any game seemed to be done with insults and that, although allowing you to solve a puzzle, it didn't have any real importance, made it feel kind of casual. As someone (maybe you) said earlier, the point of the whole insult fighting thing was to simulate some epic swordfight without implementing some weird "action mini game" gameplay, but there was just nothing epic in the bar arm wrestling.

EDIT : well, seems like we agree, Stan You said it better than me.

StansCoffins

Heh, great minds think alike and all that.;)

doggans

Rather Dashing wrote: »

In fact, it's more tedious than it was in Secret, because every other fight you have to go all the way back to the store to grab better canons.

Oh, were you supposed to keep going back? I always just waited until I had enough treasure to buy the final cannons.

I agree that the return of insult swordfighting was pointless and redundant, BUT I do enjoy the insult swordfighting sequence from CMI a bit more than the one from SMI. I think there only should be insult swordfighting in one game if any, but I would gladly give up the SMI one for the CMI one.

StansCoffins

That's actually how I feel about Curse in general. It shouldn't exist, but it does and it's f**king incredible! It's almost like a fanfic that's so good it surpasses the source material even if it jars with it. I hate what they did to the second games's ending, but I can forgive that when everything up to the end of Blood Island is one of the finest gaming experiences ever.

Sorry, off topic. I do that a lot!

nitsujsedohr

they should have insult politics! The law of the land is decided by who has the wittiest come backs and sharpest tongue.:eek:

Astro Gnocci

nah, that's too realistic

balin2k

loved them but, i wouldnt say i miss them.

Dr_Doctor

i don't really mind if Tales doesn't feature Insult Swordfighting anywhere!! I agree with some of the posts that insult swordfighting (and it's variations) has been done!!

I haven't seen anyone mentioned here about EMI's mediocre attempt to emulate the swordfighting bit of SMI with the Monkey Kombat. Monkey Kombat is basically insult swordfighting with no witty insults.

I still think EMI pwns by the way!!!