Season 3 returning characters Discussion

Who would you like to see come back?
I would love to see Ventriloquist and Zsasz again.

Comments

  • edited January 12

    My brother tried to play a complete asshole Batman to alienate as many characters as he can. The only character he couldn't alienate was Avesta, so my take is that the developers were shaping her up to bring in her dad Ra's Al Ghul and sister Talia in the next season. The original Telltale may not have had Season 3 on their plate (since a quarter of them were fired after S2 Ep3), but intentionally left things open-ended in S2.

    Kent Mudle, the original creative director, said he was looking at Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow and Poison Ivy to be the next set of villains if S3 got green-lit. I think the first part of S3 will focus on Ra's Al Ghul's infiltration into Gotham through Avesta's COO work at WE and Talia coming in to seduce Bruce.

    I would have loved to see Harley and Catwoman team up with Poison Ivy for Gotham City Sirens. And I would love to see Nightwing come in as Catwoman's new boyfriend. Telltale's Catwoman has a whip as one of her weapons, which indicates that she could have had a circus background, like Nightwing. I would like to see more exposition on her origins, especially her tough childhood (in the comics, she was a victim of trafficking in her early teens) and mentorship with Riddler.

    Plus they should resolve Mr Freeze's arc. And the consequence of whether we took the drive by force from Rumi Mori, since Riddler was trying to get his biotech company.

    S1 and S2 focused a lot on John/Joker, so he might take a backseat in S3. But who knows. Already he said Avesta "looked familiar". I would like to see whether the Agency or League of Shadows had a hand in whatever trauma John suffered before Arkham.

    I think most people chose Batman over Alfred. I would like to see what he has been up to. He won't be able to stay away for long. He will be constantly worried about Bruce.

    Not sure about Tiffany. Never liked her at all. The game urges you to forgive her for pre-meditated murder, which left a bad taste with me.

  • Honestly i feel like that would be a waste of Nightwing's entire arc and relationship with Batman and would make the entire Catwoman optional romance pointless.

    I feel like Dick should like in the comics,an orphan acrobat that Bruce adopts so he doesn't end up like him.

    Him being Robin should be optional because some people like to have Batman go solo.

    My brother tried to play a complete asshole Batman to alienate as many characters as he can. The only character he couldn't alienate was Ave

  • edited January 13

    I do like Catwoman and the Batcat dynamic. But I felt that their relationship was inconclusive, on a cliffhanger at the end of S2 Ep5, whether you chose the good or bad options. In fact, the end of S2 Ep5 point towards Avesta being around at the start of S3 instead of Catwoman. Also, Catwoman's been a very divisive character in Telltale and I'm keen to see her do more to realise her full heroic potential. I rather her not be around in the first part of S3 to avoid any messy entanglements with Avesta, Ra's & Talia, and come in to help like a panacea when things go terribly awry.

    I'll be very happy to see Bane's origin further explored. He has a sympathetic backstory as he was experimented on by evil scientists in Peña Duro, which got him addicted to the drug known as Venom. Look how grateful he was to Riddler for breaking him out of Santa Prisca. I envision him being rescued from the Agency by the League of Assassins and pledging his loyalty to Ra's Al Ghul. I'm keen to see Bane really break Batman's back for real in S3.

    The character I DO NOT want to see is Tiffany. Ugh...can't Bruce make his own tech please? He's just as well educated as her in all disciplines of engineering and science. I know the game wants her to be Lucius Fox replacement, but she's a rational smart Ivy League scholar who should be learned about the ways of law and justice, yet still commits a well planned pre-meditated murder. Just couldn't stand her when she flew away smug about the whole incident.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Honestly i feel like that would be a waste of Nightwing's entire arc and relationship with Batman and would make the entire Catwoman optiona

  • I really agree on what you said about Bruce being able to make his own tech. It seems like regardless of you're choices,Telltale's Bruce relies too much on everyone else doing his Bat-stuff for him. Especially considering you can end Season 2 being Batman entirely on you're own.

    I hope that in Season 3 they really show that he can maintain himself. If you have Tiffany with you she should just help making more gadgets and upgrading the suits apart from being another vigilante. Have Bruce make the Batwing on his own.

    About Tifanny. I don't think she's that bad,her crime is murdering the psychopath that blow up her father. I feel like that is way more reasonable than redeeming John or Harley or Freeze. They killed innocent people. Tiffany is just a traumatized kid. Even Bruce commits vigilantism daily.

    I do like Catwoman and the Batcat dynamic. But I felt that their relationship was inconclusive, on a cliffhanger at the end of S2 Ep5, wheth

  • edited January 22

    To be honest, I think modern iterations of Batman have difficulty adding in Robins, because training children to be soldiers is pretty unethical. And single men adopting children somehow is out-of-the-ordinary. I think that's the reason why DC Comics created Damian Wayne. Having his real son as Robin is a more natural fit for a narrative.

    I'm very keen to see Nightwing come in ... introduced as an adult. Not as a kid.

    And no Tiffany for me. I know all the arguments for 'forgiving' her already, but it doesn't mean she's immediately fit to be a sidekick. I am all for forgiveness and redemption, but she acts like a smug rich brat who thinks she's automatically entitled to forgiveness, that it's annoying. I would like to see her go through a lot more humility, trial and tribulations, become more humbled.

    I am also keen to see the community doctor, Dr Leslie Thompkins, a friend and confidante of Catwoman, in this universe. She can help heal Batman's back when Bane breaks it, haha! Also I've read comics where Dr Leslie developed a romance with Alfred, and that would be nice to see.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Honestly i feel like that would be a waste of Nightwing's entire arc and relationship with Batman and would make the entire Catwoman optiona

  • She's not a kid. She's 22, a fresh graduate from Cornell. Only slightly younger than Catwoman who's likely about 23 to 24.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    I really agree on what you said about Bruce being able to make his own tech. It seems like regardless of you're choices,Telltale's Bruce rel

  • Publicly stopping a terrorist and infiltrating a group of psychopaths is also out of the ordinary. Bruce Wayne adopting a child who saw his parents being killed in front of him makes perfect sense both in character and in public opinion.

    Also if that's the reason why DC created Damian they fucked up because there is nothing more unnatural than Batman letting Damian be Robin seconds after he almost killed Tim Drake and cut The Spook's fucking head off, a good written Batman would have slapped the shit out of him and locked him up until he dealed with Talia.

    Leslie is mentioned in season 1 so I hope she as a big role in season 3, especially if Alfred left. She's pretty much Bruce's mother in the comics.

    I don't know about Tifanny, she never acted that way in my playthrough, my Tiffany only wanted me to understand why she killed Riddler, but she never asked me to forgive her.

    I still like her way more than Catwoman. I warned her about the GCPD so I could take both the laptop and the USB from her and I decided to work with her and take the blame for the laptop and she repays me by letting everyone die at the Spa.

    To be honest, I think modern iterations of Batman have difficulty adding in Robins, because training children to be soldiers is pretty uneth

  • edited January 25

    Agree that the whole Damian storyline in the DC comics is really messy. I never quite got him in the comics, but I grew to actually like him in the DCAU, especially when he turns more heroic in Teen Titans.

    Regarding the performance of Bruce vs Catwoman at the Spa, well...ahem. That's where I'd like to bring up Bruce's potential romantic connection with Harley. Notice there are several suggestive flirtation cues from Harley, which Bruce can choose to respond to. And if you follow Harley at the agency convoy instead of Bane, you minimise casualties. But when you follow Bane and leave Harley behind, it results in lots of casualties of GCPD officers, as indicated by the conversation with Gordon in the rooftop after the Cafe Triste scene.

    I know this is very easy to miss, but it's suppose to give you the clue that when Bruce follows Harley and fights by her side (like with the agency convoy raid scene), you are able to minimise casualties. My guess is that Harley likes him A LOT (potentially as a romantic partner) and will listen to him :smile: Similarly when Bruce follows Harley into Sanctus, he is far better able to minimise casualties, like during the agency convoy raid.

    Also notice when Bane forcefully brings Bruce back to the subway to face Harley during the interrogation over who's the mole, Harley backs Bruce up and chases off Bane. You can even say, "Thanks for backing me up." Therefore, when you go into Sanctus as Bruce, Harley will back up your every action. Look at how even the mighty Bane slinks away when Harley bosses him around. This depiction of Harley who takes charge and is able to order Bane and his men around, was really unique, very different from all other mediums. I like it!

    Maybe it's far more obvious to me, because I unreasonably ship Bruce & Harley and observe their every interaction. Harley was definitely very fond of him :blush: before all went kaput :(

    Also wanted to add another detail that every player had missed. Everyone thought that Bane's counter-agent was useless. It wasn't. If you slip Bane the counter-agent and left him behind during the agency convoy raid to follow Harley, he won't be able to kill a single GCPD officer. When you encounter Gordon at the rooftop, you won't hear him lamenting about the casualties and how difficult it was for him to inform the families of the dead officers.

    For Tiffany, I know the game expects her to be your sidekick and in my canon playthrough, I know I'm suppose to let her off and prevent her from turning into a villain. But still, she rubbed me the wrong way. If you are talking about a character whose actions really led to the most trouble, killing Riddler was it. Sure you can forgive her, but I think she hasn't been humbled enough. There's still an element of hubris in her which I didn't like. BTW, don't you think that revealing Tiffany as Riddler's killer seemed rather clumsy? It's like a twist that the writing team decided at the last minute? The reveal was rather poorly executed on both paths IMO.

    In fact, I read that after Ep3, half of the Telltale team got retrenched. That's why I kinda feel that the narrative in Ep4 and Ep5 was somehow following a different direction from what was originally planned.

    Another plothole - how and where does Harley get her Mary Sueish fighting skills? She alone could inflict huge casualties on the GCPD all by herself if you left her behind during the agency convoy raid. Then comes back to the hideout completely unhurt. Whereas if you let the GCPD go after Catwoman, she gets hurt rather badly. Kinda hard to believe, but it's there in the story. So we go along with it.

    In any case, I don't expect complete plot continuities in a Season 3, which would be produced by an entirely different studio (Adhoc) with an entirely different team. But if Season 3 ever happens, and if we can have Ra's Al Ghul as the main villain, I'd be very very happy.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Publicly stopping a terrorist and infiltrating a group of psychopaths is also out of the ordinary. Bruce Wayne adopting a child who saw his

  • edited January 25

    To be fair, in the comics it always depends on how good the writer is. Sometimes Damian is really well written like when he was Dick's Robin, and sometimes he becomes an annoying Gary Stu like when he beat Jason or like in the DCAU were everything revolves around him and he can kick Batman's and Nightwing's ass with one arm.

    I always got the impression that Bane could kill Harley whenever he wanted to but didn't because she was useful to get the virus.

    The minimised casualities are because Bruce beats everyone before the Pact can. But yeah going with Harley is better because you can actually weaken Bane.

    I actually like the Tiffany twist but the problem is that it comes out of nowhere. in a well written mistery you can figure out who is the culprit before it is revealed, but here there aren't any clues or anything aside from lucius's death that point to Tiffany, so I'm pretty sure it was a last minute rewrite.

    I do think the reveal it's handled a little bit better in the vigilante path, because in the villain path John just reads her mind because he and Harley have plot armor for the entire episode.

    Honestly I think that Harley or John were going to be the killers of Riddler at first, I mean think about it. "They were supposed to be here", "all you gain with your games is attention". Maybe the writers thought that it was too obvious?

    I disagree with Tifanny causing the most trouble by killing Riddler, Waller is literary at fault for the entire plot of the season.

    About Harley and Catwoman vs the GCPD, I believe that is because Catwoman wasn't going to start murdering cops, she probably was trying to escape without hurting anyone and she probably had way more cops hunting her. I don't think harley would just throw herself at the cops too, she probably fought smart and carefully.

    Still I find it funny that even thought she is a capable fighter, Harley gets completely humilliated every time she fights Batman, in the Sanctus lab she literally goes down in one hit.

    The only time I believe she gets plot armor is in the villain path, where everyone is an idiot except her and John. Batman doesn't even bother searching for them until they kill half of the city and then gets his ass easily kicked by nameless henchmen that come out of nowhere and Wayne enterprises has only one bodyguard even thought it's the biggest building in Gotham. Seriously, how the fuck no one notice a gang of creepy clowns armed to the teeth entering the most famous building in Gotham? WTF Telltale.

    Agree that the whole Damian storyline in the DC comics is really messy. I never quite got him in the comics, but I grew to actually like him

  • edited January 27

    Well, Bruce could knock out the Sanctus guards before the rest of the Pact could because Harley chose to have him by her side on the frontline. See 0:10 of this playthrough:

    Aren't they sweet together! They left the rest of the Pact outside while they tackled the guard. The conversation was so suggestive; it's like Harley couldn't wait to give Bruce her promised treat ;) "Couples massage?" "Nothing too vigorous. We need to save our energy for, uh, other activities." And dat wink! (see 0:34) 🥰

    In the alternative playthrough, it would be Bane at Harley's side on the frontline, as...well...tearing the guard into half is a signature Bane move.

    I didn't choose all the positive Catwoman choices though. I let the GCPD go after her to play the "who's the first to take the laptop" game. Which is nice as she came to Bruce hurt, humbled and seeking approval even when I chose the nastiest dialogue options. So I let her investigate with me and gave her a kiss. I ratted her to the Pact, but made up with her in the Funhouse. I couldn't stand Catwoman in Season1, but was very OK with her in Season2 because I had the chance to humble her.

    Now if I had the chance to humble Tiffany, I would be better with her. Sure, she's remorseful when I choose to accept her as my disciple. But when I choose the nasty dialogue options, she becomes defiant and prideful. 🙄 But I guess it's also because that whole "Tiffany is the killer" twist was so rushed and hastily tagged on...like some kind of afterthought, that it's not well written at all. I actually think the original writing team had other ideas, e.g. having Waller as the killer or finding a way to introduce Deathstroke.

    TBH, I think Bruce is shown to be incompetent rather often. He completely ignores and forgets about "Who killed Riddler". He gives major clues about his identity to John during the laptop incident and doesn't seem worried about it...even surprised that John figured out his identity. And as you pointed out, he gets his ass handed to him by lightly trained anonymous henchmen both as Batman and as Bruce in the villain path.

    Anyway, since this discussion is about who's coming back in Season 3...I was thinking of Avesta's character arc, particularly the determinant disability (deafness), her investigative prowess and her Mary Sue-like qualities. The writers might have shaped her initial character to be a version of Mary Sueish Oracle, Batman's ally with the disability who is a genius in investigative work. But I think she's also an estranged daughter of Ra's Al Ghul. See her conversation with John in the hideout in Episode 4 - "I've run before. But problems, they just come with you. No matter how far you go." Hmmm...Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan (where Farsi is spoken) are far away from the US :wink:

    Since she was so traumatised by her deafness in Episode 1, I think something might happen in Season 3 to push her over the edge. What if villainous Joker, vengeful Two Face or some other super-villain shoots her in the pelvis and renders her crippled, like what happened to Oracle in The Killing Joke? She will be so traumatised by a second disability (or even if she's not deaf, getting crippled is devastating in itself), that she will use the Lotus virus/Lazarus Pit to cure herself. Her character will follow Riddler's tragic arc, from someone who is warm and caring (indications are that Riddler was Selina's surrogate father, like Alfred) to a murderous villain with super-fighting ability. That's how she will turn into Talia Al Ghul...or Nyssa...or Lady Shiva. :wink:

    Avesta's animation looks a lot like DCAU's Talia Al Ghul. Given her heritage as leader of the League, she's always at odds with Batman's code, yet retains an element of humanity in her loyalty and love for her family (Ra's and Damian). But she becomes irredeemably evil when she got revived with the Lazarus Pit after a fatal fight with Deathstroke. I think the previous Telltale team was putting these hints in for future developers to take up...just before they folded. Haha!

    BBW2002 posted: »

    To be fair, in the comics it always depends on how good the writer is. Sometimes Damian is really well written like when he was Dick's Robin

  • Problem is, if you don't take Tiffany in, it looks like she will work for Waller and the Agency for immunity against her crime. So the game basically compels you to make her your sidekick. The thing with Telltale's stories, is that they make certain important characters (e.g. Selina, Tiffany) very flawed which can alienate a lot of people.

    Actually I would like to see how Waller and the Suicide Squad will play out if there's a Season 3. If Ra's Al Ghul will be the next main villain, surely Bane will play a major part. It would be interesting to see how he breaks away from the Suicide Squad to serve Ra's.

    I hope to see more of Bane's sympathetic backstory as a science experiment for corrupt scientists at Pena Duro, which got him addicted to the venom. Season 3 will likely go more philosophical on the duality of good and evil. Though the League of Shadows is traditionally seen as a terrorist organisation in Batman's world, who's to say they are? The Agency may be even more of a terrorist.

    Well, Bruce could knock out the Sanctus guards before the rest of the Pact could because Harley chose to have him by her side on the frontli

  • edited January 27

    Avesta being Nyssa Raatko would probably be the best way to bring the League to Gotham, Nyssa is the one who hates Ra's and leaves the League in the comics and most adaptations. She could have changed her name and joined the Agency. But I would hate that she became evil, because they already did that with Harvey, and Vicky, and John, and in a way with Tiffany. doing it again so soon would be too repetitive.

    I never saw her as a Mary Sue thought. I mean the only impressive thing she did was discovering Batman's identity, after that she can become deaf and has regrets and self doubt. She doesn't have much screen time either.

    About Riddler's murderer, I believe that's because Bruce had his hands full with the Pact, but yeah the John stuff is inexcusable. What's really weird is in episode 5. Villain path Bruce is completely useless until the fight in the funhouse where can fight John and Harley at the same time after getting completely fucked up, but before he got instantly knocked out by a taser and couldn't leave a single henchmen in the ground. But Vigilante path Bruce gets his wrist crushed by upgraded Bane, takes a bomb to the face, falls from the GCPD roof to the ground, onto a rebar spike that IMPALES him, and with a little help he sets the rebar straight and gets out of it, THEN he passes out. After that he, with a few painkillers, beats up Harley, then a random henchman, and then he destroys John even thought he can barely stand up. It's like comparing fucking Post-Crisis Batman with Earth One Batman, even thought here it's supposed to be the same version just with different choices.

    Well, Bruce could knock out the Sanctus guards before the rest of the Pact could because Harley chose to have him by her side on the frontli

  • edited January 29

    Yes, Avesta as Nyssa Raatko makes the most sense, since she mentioned she's "Gotham born and bred", i.e. probably didn't know Ra's as a child. Similarly, Nyssa never knew her father when she was a child (in the comics, Nyssa was born and raised by her mother in Russia) and went to seek him out in North Africa as an adult. Ra's later disowned Nyssa when she disagreed with his plan to "cleanse the world"; therefore Avesta/Nyssa being part of the Agency is probably a rejection of Ra's League of Shadows. On the contrary, Talia was raised by Ra's Al Ghul.

    The Farsi-speaking makes sense as Nyssa's mother, Amina Raatko, is from the Hindu Kush mountains in Afghanistan, which is a Farsi-speaking country :wink:

    Maybe like in the comics, Ra's will see Batman as his potential heir and will match him with Talia, his more loyal daughter, as opposed to his disowned daughter, Avesta/Nyssa, thereby creating conflict between the sisters. This would be a good way to create another popular sex scene, but this time between Bruce and Talia. However, don't give players a choice to turn her down because Bruce will be semi-drugged, lol! After all, Talia's the undisputed mother of Batman's son, Damian. :smiley:

    With the League coming into the story, there will be an interesting dichotomy to explore - "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". Perhaps the League of Shadows is an organization seen as an evil "terrorist" by Batman's government/ law enforcement, but actually provides stable and peaceful governance of the region where Ra's Al Ghul resides. And toppling them results in great suffering and deaths of innocent civilians. ;)

    Reminds me of the award-winning "The Breadwinner" animated movie produced by Angelina Jolie, where the young girl protagonist's brown hair and green eyes look like a young Avesta/Nyssa. It's about the suffering of innocents during the US-Taliban war. But I digress. :smile:

    Talking about Mary Sueish fighting skills, don't you think Lady Arkham/Vicki in Season 1 is overly high powered? That lethal staff and those flying boots are just as (or even more) high-tech as anything Batman has! How did she get those without his kind of billionaire wealth! Maybe from the League of Shadows?

    Also, why did Vicky Vale give away the train depot location to Batman? She knew he will turn up to sabotage her plan to poison the citizens of Gotham with her drugs. Sure, maybe she did plan to challenge him to a duel, but was she so confident of winning? And why does she intentionally endanger her own 'mission'? And something I never figured out - she doesn't come after a heavily injured Batman carried by Catwoman who's clearly a far less competent fighter than her. She watches them and walks away. She's not injured; she has her deadly power staff which could have delivered a fatal blow to injured Batman...but she just walks away!

    I have figured out at least 2 mysteries that no other gamer (or very few) had figured out. But THIS...I can't figure out... unless it is revealed that Lady Arkham/Vicki was trained by the League. It could be that the League rescued her from Arkham Asylum's catacombs, that's why her body was never found. If so, hopefully we can see her return in Season 3 with the League.

    BTW, there's actually a DC Icons YA novel called "Catwoman: Soulstealer" that is pretty trashy, but could work here. In the novel, Selina was rescued as a young teen from Gotham's slums by Talia Al Ghul, trains in Europe for a few years, comes back to Gotham at age 19 as a sophisticated socialite to steal something important for Talia. Perhaps Telltale Catwoman followed this storyline, that's why Lady Arkham leaves her be, because they are both from the League. Who knows :smiley:

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Avesta being Nyssa Raatko would probably be the best way to bring the League to Gotham, Nyssa is the one who hates Ra's and leaves the Leagu

  • Linking the League to Lady Arkham makes sense given that she is a dark reflection of Bruce. It would make perfect sense that both of them would leave Gotham to train under different masters. It would also explain all her technology and resources.

    Still, if the League send Vicki to Gotham then they would be completly irredeemable terrorists given that she murdered innocent people and tried to release the Children of Arkham's drug on Mercy Street station. Maybe they could say she went rogue in the middle of the season given that in ep 5 she clearly wasn't working for anyone, she was just deranged.

    About the train depot location, as Vicki Vale she didn't really have a any choice about giving Batman the information, he would have come back to hunt her down if she lied to him, she probably did think she could kill him there too. my headcanon about her not following them is that she was way more hurt from falling off the train than she looked, I mean, the only thing she did after that was shooting with her staff, she even has trouble getting up. She probably didn't know how good Catwoman's fighting skills were too, maybe she didn't want to risk herself?

    Yes, Avesta as Nyssa Raatko makes the most sense, since she mentioned she's "Gotham born and bred", i.e. probably didn't know Ra's as a chil

  • edited February 8

    Notice that people keep thinking that Bruce was trained by the League of Shadows, but that happened only in the Nolan movies, not in the DC comics. Here are his trainers according to DC Wiki:

    • At the age of 19, he learned how to race cars in life-or-death situations from Brazilian criminal, Don Miguel.
    • He was trained in stealth by an unnamed master in the Hida Mountains, in Japan.
    • At age 21, Bruce studied the ins and outs of technological gadgetry under the guidance of the brilliant inventor, Sergei Alexandrov.
    • At age 24, Bruce was training in Norway, and after 28 hours of fighting a new opponent each hour, Bruce's determination struck fear into all the Queen's men.
    • Bruce also trained with Chu Chin Li and Tsunetomo, two martial arts masters in the Far East.
    • After this, Bruce traveled to Paris, France, to find Henri Ducard, a skilled manhunter. Bruce also became close training partners with Ducard's son, Morgan.
    • Near the end of his travels, Bruce went to the Himalayas to train with Shihan Matsuda, who taught him to fight with the katana.

    So I think those trained by the League of Shadows, like Lady Arkham, will be unknown to him. I think Season 3, with Avesta as COO, it's an ideal way to introduce Ra's Al Ghul and Talia. I think the League always had plans to conquer the USA through Gotham (the hypothetical New York) and Bruce Wayne's vast power and economic resources. Think of The Man in the High Castle alternative history scenario.

    In Season 1 and 2, it is always about saving Gotham, keeping Gotham safe. Why not make the stakes bigger? Have the League conquer the whole of the USA and rule the world.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Linking the League to Lady Arkham makes sense given that she is a dark reflection of Bruce. It would make perfect sense that both of them wo

  • Ra's Al Ghul is a great villain but who should be side villains since Ra's Al Ghul is a main villain

  • Sure. Why not an adaptation of the Holiday Killer? Toss up people's expectations. Everyone seems to feel sorry for Harvey Dent, thinking his breakdown is due to his mental issues and make excuses for his behavior. Have him continue as the Holiday Killer and make people realise he belongs more in Blackgate than Arkham.

    https://www.pinterest.de/pin/400398223114621253/

  • I'm way more keen on seeing Harley Quinn return and have some redemption arc, rather than Lady Arkham. Just didn't care for Vicki.
    But indications might be that she will return, since the Codex said her body was never found. Seems intentional on the writers' part to leave an opening for a possible return.
    No interest in Oz either, even though the Codex say he is working hard on getting a parole.
    I also didn't care for Harvey. I don't even think Bruce and him can be considered close friends when he doesn't even know Harvey that well. If you are close to someone, you'd know he has underlying mental issues for a long time. But Bruce doesn't seem to know that at all.

    I cared much more about the Pact - Harley, Bane, Freeze and John. I think the story is pretty done with John's arc, much as I like him. But I really want to see further exploration of Harley and Bane.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Linking the League to Lady Arkham makes sense given that she is a dark reflection of Bruce. It would make perfect sense that both of them wo

  • When Ra's Al Ghul comes to Gotham, Talia will come into the picture and seduce Bruce, setting up conflict with her sister Avesta. A lot of story already. Too many side villains will distract.

    Ra's Al Ghul is a great villain but who should be side villains since Ra's Al Ghul is a main villain

  • I really don't get why everyone wants to redeem Harley. Like, what's to redeem? Does she regret killing anybody? No. Did she enjoy killing innocent people? Yes. Everything she did only caused pain and suffering. I get why people want to save Harvey because he can't control his other personality, he's still is a psychopathic asshole, but at least there was some good in him. Still I hope he suffers for being a murderous son of a bitch, I would have made both sides match if i had the choice.

    Anyway, it's not like everybody has to comeback for this season. There's no reason why this has to be the last season. Especially since Batman has the most potential for several seasons of all the Telltale games.

    Pinkyswear posted: »

    I'm way more keen on seeing Harley Quinn return and have some redemption arc, rather than Lady Arkham. Just didn't care for Vicki. But ind

  • edited February 11

    It's because Harley is hot and she & Bruce had really hot flirtation scenes in Ep2 (drinking the slushie, the elevator scene, her kiss after chasing away Tiffany), her tantalizing promise of a "treat" in Ep3, culminating in Ep4 if you go into Sanctus as Bruce, she chooses Bruce to be her Pact co-leader by her side, leaving mighty Bane following behind like a lapdog. And her suggestive innuendos when Bruce pounds his fist at the Sanctus receptionist ...until you have to betray her at the lab (which sux!). There are also moments of warmth when she apologizes for her behavior in Wayne Tower and confides in Bruce about her father in both Ep2 and Ep3. These indicate she was developing genuine feelings for him, making his betrayal at Sanctus heart-wrenching for her.
    Her romantic attraction to Bruce is very obvious, don't you think :wink:

    OK, OK...nothing to do with her irredeemable killing crimes. 'tis a shipper's point-of-view. :blush: But notwithstanding who's on the good vs bad side, Bruce did make use of her emotions for his own agenda. He felt betrayed about Selina playing his emotions in Season 1, but in Season 2, he did exactly the same thing to Harley...and very much to John. I know it is hard to see this if you are role-playing as Bruce, but I get this is what Telltale was trying to do. So I feel that I want to make it up to Harley, somehow, in Season 3.

    In the comics, there have been more than a few stories about Harvey Dent getting plastic surgery to repair his face and seemingly "cured" of his mental illness. In my playthrough, he was never disfigured though. But I'd like to see a loose adaptation of "Batman: Face the Face" where Harvey is seemingly back to his "normal" self and doing "good" for Gotham again. Put in a whodunit major puzzle story like "The Holiday Killer", where Bruce works with Renee Montoya and consults John in Arkham to solve it. And yes, the Holiday Killer turns out to be Harvey Dent, which means he always had inherent murderous instincts way before the events in Season 1.
    I guess they can somehow weave this side story in, to continue on the theme of "redeemable or not redeemable" which reverberates throughout the seasons. Plays perfectly into the type of mindgames that Ra's Al Ghul and his minion Scarecrow could put Bruce through.

    No interest in Oswald. He was just a lapdog of Lady Arkham.

    I don't care for Tiffany. But I'm more curious about her little brother, Luke. In DC Comics' coming 5G Timeline, Luke Fox a.k.a. Batwing is to be the new Batman in the DC Comics continuity. So I can imagine after his back is broken by Bane, the events of No Man's Land and the final big battle with the League of Shadows, Bruce really has to make plans to get a successor to take over the cape and cowl. That's Luke Fox.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    I really don't get why everyone wants to redeem Harley. Like, what's to redeem? Does she regret killing anybody? No. Did she enjoy killing i

  • edited February 11

    I don't care for Harvey either. Every villain has potential good in him or her. What makes people feel sorry for him more than say...Freeze?

    The lack of the scarring in Telltale's Two-Face indicates that he's always been an innate psychopath, looking for an excuse to act out and become an asshole. The scarring just further enabled that part of his personality to flourish and have a 'pity' excuse. But unscarred Harvey drives the point home that he's a psychopath and sociopath looking to "punish" anyone who deflated his inflated ego.

    I have no respect for guys who cannot handle rejection with dignity. Those players who pity him are those who also cannot handle rejection with dignity in real-life and are born to be losers.

    So yes, I would like Harvey to come back as Two Face and drive home the point that he's always been the loser psychopath Holiday Killer from the start, as well as for Batman to realize how blind he is. His advice to Riddler, "You need better friends" can well apply to him.

    Frankly, this version of Batman can be frustratingly half-witted. the laptop incident with John is case in point. No wonder he keeps getting outsmarted. How can he be "the world's greatest detective"?

    BBW2002 posted: »

    I really don't get why everyone wants to redeem Harley. Like, what's to redeem? Does she regret killing anybody? No. Did she enjoy killing i

  • edited February 12

    I seriously think the League of Shadows funded Vicki Vale's training and equipment, that will explain why Batman could barely defeat her. Man, he had almost as much difficulty fighting her as he had fighting Bane & Freeze! The goals of the League and Lady Arkham align, as do their views of Gotham, and this would explain how a reporter learned to fight so well and acquire advanced equipment.

    I also think Catwoman was also hired by the League to help Vicki and steal the Phalanx key from Bruce, but she went AWOL on them. By the time she stole the Phalanx key, she had decided to evade the League, that's why she gave up the key to Bruce without protest.

    Ra's Al Ghul has been watching Bruce Wayne for some time and deduced, with the help of his daughter Avesta, that he is Batman. Avesta could be the mole in the Agency that Waller referred to in Ep3. Fact that Avesta is 39 years old means that she's an older sister of Talia, not younger (which is Nyssa). The writers were thinking of an origin like Nyssa's but made her the older sister instead.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Linking the League to Lady Arkham makes sense given that she is a dark reflection of Bruce. It would make perfect sense that both of them wo

  • I don't get why people feel sorry about Freeze either, everyone kisses his ass because he supposedly does everything for his wife but how many husbands and wives as he taken from other people in the process? The only reason I froze his ass was because i wasn't going to let the agency get anything from him.

    Anyway, I disagree with what you say about Harvey, the scarring doesn't have anything to do with his other personality, it just makes him more agressive, he probably had it all his life, like the Harvey Dent from the animated series. Your description sounds more like John than Harvey. If he was as you say then he wouldn't be fighting with himself all the time and you couldn't talk him out of killing the hostages in episode 5. I'm not defending him but he even tries to kill himself after realizing what he did.

    Ironlady posted: »

    I don't care for Harvey either. Every villain has potential good in him or her. What makes people feel sorry for him more than say...Freeze?

  • edited February 21

    Very interesting theories. Really hope that there is a Season 3, though I think we will have to wait till 2021, as they will release WAU2 first this year.

    I hope for a more expanded story on Avesta in Season 3 as Telltale's version of Nyssa. I've always found Nyssa's story very interesting. She's the polar contrast to Talia. Story of 2 sisters, one raised by her mother in Gotham, the other raised by their father (Ra's Al Ghul) in Nanda Parbat. It'd be even more interesting if they turn out to be twins. Then we can get a classic "evil twin" story.

    Nanda Parbat is located in the Hindu Kush mountains where there are people who speak Farsi. So it's a very plausible theory!

    can't wait for an announcement on Season 3. Hope it comes after WAU2.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    Avesta being Nyssa Raatko would probably be the best way to bring the League to Gotham, Nyssa is the one who hates Ra's and leaves the Leagu

  • edited February 21

    Yeah, Harley definitely had a serious crush on Bruce. I love Selina, but I messed up. I blamed her for the laptop theft to protect Tiffany, thinking I could warn her. But no...Harley had her tied up and surrounded by her gunmen. Felt like shit.

    Nevertheless, leading the Pact into Sanctus with Harley was seriously fun. She looked so happy and excited to have Bruce by her side! And she could talk down Bane to make him leave Bruce alone.

    She was indeed looking forward to giving Bruce her 'treat', lol!

    It's because Harley is hot and she & Bruce had really hot flirtation scenes in Ep2 (drinking the slushie, the elevator scene, her kiss a

  • edited February 21

    IDK, I liked Tiffany despite her out-of-nowhere crime. She's like, "I killed Riddler!" Duh! And yes, I took her under my wing as she has the potential to become a super-villain with her intelligence and tech. Not a good idea to make a tech genius your enemy. Plus it is always better to boost your number of allies.

    Bruce could knock out the Sanctus people before the Pact could kill them because...heh...Harley's seriously crushing on Bruce, so she positioned him at the front with her. In the alternative scenario, then it would be Bane at the front with Harley.

    I guess I could see it because I was part of the minority who went into Sanctus as Bruce, so I notice Bruce & Harley first goes into the Spa to tackle the guard while leaving the Pact outside. “Just gotta take out one itty bitty guard, then we can get the rest of the gang inside.”

    In the alternative scenario, Catwoman would have been outside with Harley's gunmen, so she wasn't there when Bane tore the guard at the reception into half. Also she wasn't in the lab with the Pact when she encounters Batman at Sanctus. So yeah, Harley doesn't like her as much. Too bad!

    BBW2002 posted: »

    To be fair, in the comics it always depends on how good the writer is. Sometimes Damian is really well written like when he was Dick's Robin

  • edited February 20

    Am I the only one who prefers Oswald to Harvey?

    Oswald had a richer and more sympathetic backstory. He got sucked into a life of crime out of necessity when his mother got poisoned by Thomas Wayne and thrown into Arkham. Harvey's insanity wasn't given any background that was caused by the Waynes. He's just like that.

    IMO Bruce actually owes Oswald a lot. Whereas he doesn't owe Harvey a thing.

    BBW2002 posted: »

    I don't get why people feel sorry about Freeze either, everyone kisses his ass because he supposedly does everything for his wife but how ma

  • edited February 20

    I think it's because Oswald actively acted like an arrogant jerk lording over Bruce when he took over the CEO position. It hits the player's ego on a personal front. Majority of players are male. A bruised ego is a huge thing to guys.

    That's the difficulty of the game. Because you role-play as Bruce, you take offense at wrongdoings that hit you personally. So the bruised ego obscured the sympathetic angle of Oswald.

    lilimathieu posted: »

    Am I the only one who prefers Oswald to Harvey? Oswald had a richer and more sympathetic backstory. He got sucked into a life of crime ou

  • edited February 23

    No, Bruce doesn't Oswald anything. He isn't responsible for what his father did, Blaming a child for his parents actions is insane. Isn't that the entire point of season 1? Even after all the shit he got Bruce still helps Gotham because he's a great guy.

    Also regardless of why he become one, Oswald loved to be a criminal, shooting the moderator in the face shows that. He's just a pathetic lowlife that would be rotting in england if it weren't for Vicki Vale, and then he acts all-mighty when they give him the company of his childhood friend who didn't do shit to him or his family, nothing excuses what he did. That's why he doesn't get parole in season 2.

    lilimathieu posted: »

    Am I the only one who prefers Oswald to Harvey? Oswald had a richer and more sympathetic backstory. He got sucked into a life of crime ou

  • Interesting that S2 showcased Bruce as the object of desire for Harley, John and Iman, and him using their feelings for him to get what he wants.

    • He uses Harley's affections for him to control Bane during the Sanctus raid;
    • He clearly uses John to get into the Pact;
    • He (kinda) uses Iman to uncover Waller's true intentions and get the dirt on her. in the Codex, he pretty much stated that he's looking to use her crush on Batman as a way to deal with the Agency.

    The only person he didn't seem to use is Selina. Felt that she was rather peripheral to the main plot in S2.

    lilimathieu posted: »

    IDK, I liked Tiffany despite her out-of-nowhere crime. She's like, "I killed Riddler!" Duh! And yes, I took her under my wing as she has the

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