about elanes role

did she fall 4 nice Lechuck (cos of the belt buckle) or was she playing along just to try and free Guybrush from the voodoo ladys controle and how did she know the ring would work or any of this would happen

Comments

  • edited December 2009
    did she fall 4 nice Lechuck (cos of the belt buckle) or was she playing along just to try and free Guybrush from the voodoo ladys controle and how did she know the ring would work or any of this would happen

    These are all questions I was wondering about, too!
    At first I thought she had fallen for nice LeChuck, but seagull Voodoo Lady seemed to imply that it was all the belt buckle, and that Elaine was tricked by this buckle. The persuasive nature of the buckle was obviously then demonstrated when the Thief believed Guybrush's far-fetched stories about space turtles from the future.

    However, in Elaine's final monologue, and in some of the seagull's speech, it is implied that from the outset, Elaine knew exactly what she was getting herself in for. That said, I think that the belt buckle is like a charm that brainwashes people. So in one sense, Elaine knew what she was doing (by allowing herself to get close to LeChuck in the first place), but in another sense, she was still under the influence of the spell-binding buckle.

    ALTHOUGH - Elaine *does* say, on LeChuck's ship, that she "played along with your [LeChuck's] nice guy game" in order to get Guybrush to find La Esponja Grande.

    It almost seems as though *everyone (bar LeChuck)* was in on the plot to "save Guybrush from himself", except Guybrush. In which case, I would say that it was all the Voodoo Lady's doing; she could have been advising Elaine on what to do.

    However, I was confused when the seagull Voodoo Lady said that Elaine doesn't believe in voodoo. Now that just stumped me completely.
  • edited December 2009
    However, I was confused when the seagull Voodoo Lady said that Elaine doesn't believe in voodoo. Now that just stumped me completely.

    Didn't she say Elaine doesn't TRUST voodoo? Well at least that is what I thought was implied.
  • edited December 2009
    These are all questions I was wondering about, too!
    At first I thought she had fallen for nice LeChuck, but seagull Voodoo Lady seemed to imply that it was all the belt buckle, and that Elaine was tricked by this buckle. The persuasive nature of the buckle was obviously then demonstrated when the Thief believed Guybrush's far-fetched stories about space turtles from the future.

    However, in Elaine's final monologue, and in some of the seagull's speech, it is implied that from the outset, Elaine knew exactly what she was getting herself in for. That said, I think that the belt buckle is like a charm that brainwashes people. So in one sense, Elaine knew what she was doing (by allowing herself to get close to LeChuck in the first place), but in another sense, she was still under the influence of the spell-binding buckle.

    ALTHOUGH - Elaine *does* say, on LeChuck's ship, that she "played along with your [LeChuck's] nice guy game" in order to get Guybrush to find La Esponja Grande.

    It almost seems as though *everyone (bar LeChuck)* was in on the plot to "save Guybrush from himself", except Guybrush. In which case, I would say that it was all the Voodoo Lady's doing; she could have been advising Elaine on what to do.

    However, I was confused when the seagull Voodoo Lady said that Elaine doesn't believe in voodoo. Now that just stumped me completely.

    I don't think Elaine knew completely what was going on but was basically going with the flow and took credit for everything Guybrush did himself. It's actually very Monkey Island-ish of her to do that, and it's a lot like what she did in Secret.
  • edited December 2009
    Guybrush was apparently immune to the belt-buckle charm.
  • edited December 2009
    Guybrush began to trust LeChuck though.
  • edited December 2009
    I don't really understand this plan that Elaine was supposed to have...Guybrush finally used Elaine's ring as the last action of the game, to escape from the Crossroads...and Elaine is meant to have foreseen this in episode 2? That makes no sense. So she just felt that the ring would be useful? I don't understand.

    Her whole plan seems to have been "let Guybrush take care of it", which of course works since Guybrush has to win, but it isn't really much of a plan at all.
  • edited December 2009
    Fronzel wrote: »
    Guybrush finally used Elaine's ring as the last action of the game, to escape from the Crossroads...and Elaine is meant to have foreseen this in episode 2? That makes no sense. So she just felt that the ring would be useful? I don't understand.

    She probably knew about the spell LeChuck used to escape the crossroads (she HAS known LeChuck a lot longer than Guybrush has), and wanted him to have the ring in case he was trapped in the crossroads, which was a plausible scenario given all the voodoo and playing fast with the rules of life and death this particular adventure involved.
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited December 2009
    Maybe Elaine was expecting Guybrush to use the ring right out, but didn't expect it would get left behind with his body? Maybe she just saw the ring as an important remedy and expected Guybrush to end up in a bind far more complicated (and in a far more unprepared state) than what she was getting into. Maybe she thought he'd be able to use it to cure her after becoming LeChuck's bride? Maybe Mark Darin knows the answer. I always assumed that Elaine had some inkling that it would be important, wasn't sure of the details (she can't see the future), so she trusted her gut, and took the risk.
  • edited December 2009
    Karl wrote: »
    Guybrush began to trust LeChuck though.

    Thats what bothered me the most about the story in Tales of Monkey Island. I (as a player) never trusted LeChuck, yet I was forced to play a character who came to.

    Maybe if they didn't make the human LeChuck so goody-two-shoes...
  • edited December 2009
    I think Elaine was working the whole time to stop the Voodoo Lady from manipulating Guybrush and to a lesser extent LeChuck. She didn't trust the Voodoo lady and advised Guybrush to not take her advice.
    I mean think about it throughout the Monkey Island series Guybrush and LeChuck were always destined to countinually fight each other and the Voodoo Lady was guiding Guybrush's every move.
    LeChuck gave Elaine insight on the Voodoo Lady's trickery and Elaine goes along with his plan (either because of the belt buckle or because of she gunually belived) Naturally she also saw this as the oppertunity to get rid of LeChuck for good aswell.
    This is how understand it all anyway
    Though I still don't understand how Elaine new her ring would help Guybrush or why she reacted the way she did when LeChuck killed Guybrush (assuming it was part of the plan)
  • edited December 2009
    Demra wrote: »
    I mean think about it throughout the Monkey Island series Guybrush and LeChuck were always destined to countinually fight each other and the Voodoo Lady was guiding Guybrush's every move.

    So VOODOO LADY is playing the game, and WE'RE the NPCs? Whoa, you just blew my mind.
    Though I still don't understand how Elaine new her ring would help Guybrush or why she reacted the way she did when LeChuck killed Guybrush (assuming it was part of the plan)

    I don't think Guybrush actually dying was part of her plan. But Elaine probably knew that Guybrush would somehow or another need a symbol of their love to keep going at some point.
  • edited December 2009
    Demra wrote: »
    I think Elaine was working the whole time to stop the Voodoo Lady from manipulating Guybrush

    That's what I understood too except that even that makes no sense as at no point did Guybrush cease to be manipulated (if indeed that is what was going on and the coda pretty much leaves me in little to no doubt of it). And yet Elaine was crowing success.

    The ring sort of makes sense if you just believe that Elaine recognised its importance in protecting Guybrush in general though that doesn't marry with the idea of her not trusting voodoo. I think it possibly safe to say that Elaine does trust voodoo, it's just voodoo ladies she has issues with.

    But still... no matter how I play it in my head, Elaine's confidence that she showed at the end of the game and her lack of surprise or indeed relief at Guybrush's return seem misplaced. The end was emotionally dead for me because of that pretty much... Compare it to the raw emotions Elaine showed at the end of chapter four. Regardless of how smart and confident Elaine is as a character, it felt wrong for her to just take Guybrush for granted.

    Anyway... back to Elaine's role... if she did indeed have some scheme to remove Guybrush from the incessant to and fro with LeChuck then she made herself into a rather dangerous villainess, as manipulative as anyone else in the game but worse: incompetent with it.
  • edited December 2009
    doggans wrote: »
    She probably knew about the spell LeChuck used to escape the crossroads (she HAS known LeChuck a lot longer than Guybrush has), and wanted him to have the ring in case he was trapped in the crossroads, which was a plausible scenario given all the voodoo and playing fast with the rules of life and death this particular adventure involved.

    In my eyes, that's the best explanation, doggans. Simple, but entirely plausible. Good one. :)
  • NaoNao
    edited December 2009
    There are plenty of unresolved questions, unfortunately. And the lack of emotional depth when Guybrush meets Elaine at the end made it look more like a reference to the MI3 ending (just married, no kiss, see ya, got a boat to catch), than the MI1 ending (the multiple choice dialog between them at the very end).
    Regarding Elaine's plans, it struck me as important that right before she became a demon bride, she did hear something LeChuck said (about how he could not be killed in a certain way, I think), and devised her plan at that precise moment. However, becoming a demon bride really didn't seem to help Guybrush's scenario. (It did help my Burtonesque sense, though, so all was not lost! As her husband says, he didn't mind the sass at all!)

    I'm hopeful that Telltale will at some point publish a FAQ where they answer all questions that were supposed to be answered, but weren't due to a glitch or misunderstanding or the rush to completion. I don't mind not having answers if they weren't meant to be given, of course. But it's so much information... What's in the box that Morgan carries at the end, for instance? I tried to pause the game, take a screenshot, zoom it, I have no idea... Is this the belt buckle? Or something else?

    Also, I would love to know at some point what exactly was Ron Gilbert's input on ToMI's story. Since he reportedly wasn't too thrilled about the directions taken by MI3/MI4 (such as having Guybrush and Elaine marry), I'd be interested in knowing whether he created any of the characters, or gave a general direction, devised the Crossroads (which would explain the Nor Treblig nod in episode 1), or something like that.

    Anyway--

    Best game I've played in years, most fascinating Monkey Island so far in my opinion (and, well, I've been a fan for 18 years now), and something I could have paid $350 for, rather than $35, without complaining. (Don't quote me on that, though. Someone might want to charge me the missing $315 :P)
  • edited December 2009
    Elaine tells you herself at the end: her master plan, that she's been relying on this entire time, is that Guybrush always saves her, no matter what she does. *headdesk*
  • edited December 2009
    LeChuck said something along the lines of the Cutlass being able to destroy anything it touched, but being (at present) so filled with Voodoo power that only a god could wield it. It's pretty clear that Elaine saw her chance to get the Cutlass in her power, and trusted Guybrush to bring her back from any undesirable side-effects (which he did).

    I didn't get a lack of emotional depth from the end, BTW. Nor did the ring thing bother me all that much ... Elaine may have been told that Guybrush would need the ring; it might have been intuition on her part; or she might have just been taking credit for knowing more than she actually did, which isn't necessarily out of character. It was a nice grace note, and that's all that matters. The story doesn't have to hold up to laser-like scrutiny, so long as it hangs together and carries a certain emotional logic ... for me, it worked.
  • edited December 2009
    I'd like to add another food for thought.
    If I understood things correctly, the cutlass was enchanted/voodooed so that no mortal could wield it. When Elaine is demonic, fine, no problem. But then she reverts back yet still she wields the cutlass normally. Why wasn't it hot to the touch like when Guybrush tried to grab it?
    Is there something about Elaine that is more then meets the eye?
  • edited December 2009
    Isriddari wrote: »
    I'd like to add another food for thought.
    If I understood things correctly, the cutlass was enchanted/voodooed so that no mortal could wield it. When Elaine is demonic, fine, no problem. But then she reverts back yet still she wields the cutlass normally. Why wasn't it hot to the touch like when Guybrush tried to grab it?
    Is there something about Elaine that is more then meets the eye?

    YES! Thank you, that was bugging me too! Wait, now that I think about it, maybe it's like this: Elaine was holding onto the cutlass when Guybrush shrank the sponge, taking away the voodoo that was possessing her. Maybe it took away whatever extra properties LeChuck had given the cutlass as well?

    'Cause at one point Guybrush asks Elaine if she can feel any "demon-ness" left over, which she doesn't if I remember right.

    Anybody else like to take a guess?
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